energy prices

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Thank feck Thatcher sold off all our utilities to her mates for a few quid otherwise the country would really be in the shit.

 

Oh wait!

At least she’ll be warm where she is now.

[Herbert.]

16 hours ago, Boab said:

There were riots when unfair taxes were proposed 30 years ago.

Now, it's “ oh, that's no very fair ! “

 

 

I'm up for a riot. Just give me a time and date.

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

At least she’ll be warm where she is now.

 

[joondalupjambo]

21 hours ago, Gizmo said:

4% increase limit in France.
53% increase (average) in the UK. 

UK's attempt to help is a loan of £200. Which, get this, you'll pay back even if you don't get it. Mandatory. 
 

 

So if that is true and we assume 10,000 new houses that are built across the UK, ready for new home owners to move into from May 2023 to December 2023.  These homes had no £200 loans but their bills will include £40 additional amounts added to their normal usage for 5 years.

 

10000 X 40 X 5 years = 2 million quid.

 

2 million to the energy companies from people who had no loan.  That cannot be right surely?  Then what about new homes from years after that up to the five year end date?  They would need to pay would they?

 

No way that is money for old rope.  It has to be wrong.

[Spellczech]

17 hours ago, Boab said:

There were riots when unfair taxes were proposed 30 years ago.

Now, it's “ oh, that's no very fair ! “

It wasn't an unfair tax, just dreadful PR. There was a reason that the riots started in Glasgow where many adult children live with their parents until they get married.

[ri Alban]

21 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

It wasn't an unfair tax, just dreadful PR. There was a reason that the riots started in Glasgow where many adult children live with their parents until they get married.

[Francis Albert]

16 hours ago, Savage Vince said:

 

You're going to struggle to name one other country in Europe who would put up with what has went on in this country during the past year. 

 

The answer to your question is sadly, very. 

In what respects have the lives of people in the UK differed in the last year or two significantly from those of most people in most of Europe? And indeed beyond?

[Savage Vince]

43 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

In what respects have the lives of people in the UK differed in the last year or two significantly from those of most people in most of Europe? And indeed beyond?

 

No real surprise to read you posting that tbh. 

[NANOJAMBO]

47 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

In what respects have the lives of people in the UK differed in the last year or two significantly from those of most people in most of Europe? And indeed beyond?

Yeah , correct. It's not like the UK has the worst Covid death date or anything like that. 

[Greedy Jambo]

I heard someone on the radio say she would be using electric heating, is it just the gas prices that are going up?

[NANOJAMBO]

[Cade]

6 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

I heard someone on the radio say she would be using electric heating, is it just the gas prices that are going up?

 

Wholesale gas prices are up, and a fair portion of the UK's leccy is generated by gas fired power plants, so leccy is going up because of that.

Same goes for oil fired power plants.

And coal.

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

[Greedy Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

Wholesale gas prices are up, and a fair portion of the UK's leccy is generated by gas fired power plants, so leccy is going up because of that.

Same goes for oil fired power plants.

And coal.

 

Cheers, 

I thought she was talking shite, don't know why nobody questioned her. 

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

No real surprise to read you posting that tbh. 

No real surprise at your response. Ignore a fair question by questioning my motive in asking it. Whatever you think the motivation is exactly.

[Savage Vince]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Ignore a fair question by questioning my motive in asking it. 

 

Well spotted. 

 

[Francis Albert]

58 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Yeah , correct. It's not like the UK has the worst Covid death date or anything like that. 

The  thirteenth highest death rate per million of population in Europe.

So yeah ... not like 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

29 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

Well spotted. 

 

Not a difficult spot really.

[graygo]

8 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

So if that is true and we assume 10,000 new houses that are built across the UK, ready for new home owners to move into from May 2023 to December 2023.  These homes had no £200 loans but their bills will include £40 additional amounts added to their normal usage for 5 years.

 

10000 X 40 X 5 years = 2 million quid.

 

2 million to the energy companies from people who had no loan.  That cannot be right surely?  Then what about new homes from years after that up to the five year end date?  They would need to pay would they?

 

No way that is money for old rope.  It has to be wrong.

 

I took it that as it's the government giving the loan then it's the government who will be getting the repayments, albeit from the energy companies. It's still a scam though and they will be taking in more than they have loaned.

[Pans Jambo]

7 hours ago, Cade said:

 

Wholesale gas prices are up, and a fair portion of the UK's leccy is generated by gas fired power plants, so leccy is going up because of that.

Same goes for oil fired power plants.

And coal.

Wholesale. I lnow what that is but…

 

Just WHO are the wholesalers in this case & WHY have they increased prices so much?

 

I thought the UK produced enough of its own gas. 

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The  thirteenth highest death rate per million of population in Europe.

So yeah ... not like 

And England(2464) and Scotland(1892)? Where are they on the this list?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by ri Alban

[Tommy Brown]

15 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

So if that is true and we assume 10,000 new houses that are built across the UK, ready for new home owners to move into from May 2023 to December 2023.  These homes had no £200 loans but their bills will include £40 additional amounts added to their normal usage for 5 years.

 

10000 X 40 X 5 years = 2 million quid.

 

2 million to the energy companies from people who had no loan.  That cannot be right surely?  Then what about new homes from years after that up to the five year end date?  They would need to pay would they?

 

No way that is money for old rope.  It has to be wrong.

A wee bit misplaced thinking.

Most new homes are taken up by people already in a home and already paying for home fuel.

Its people living with parents moving into their first home that will get hit unfairly.

[Tommy Brown]

5 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Wholesale. I lnow what that is but…

 

Just WHO are the wholesalers in this case & WHY have they increased prices so much?

 

I thought the UK produced enough of its own gas. 

Russia and Saudi.

The chinese and asians started buying up gas which has forced up the price.

I seen figures that we only buy 5% of ours from Russia. 

Around 44% is Our own own North Sea gas. the rest from Norway and NL.

 

[joondalupjambo]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

A wee bit misplaced thinking.

Most new homes are taken up by people already in a home and already paying for home fuel.

Its people living with parents moving into their first home that will get hit unfairly.

Ok I am guessing here of course but 10000 new homes across the UK could be low and as you say it will depend who is going into them.  However the principal of new users being hit with a levy when they did not get receipt of any loan is poor form.  It will be the number of new accounts that is key and there will be a formula somewhere being used to estimate that by the Government.  Could it be that the Government is worried about the number of non repayments by people so they are using another method for reducing that loss?  Obviously again unfair on a lot of people.

 

Bottom line is the policy is probably wrong as so many are saying.

Edited February 6, 2022 by joondalupjambo

[Tommy Brown]

34 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Ok I am guessing here of course but 10000 new homes across the UK could be low and as you say it will depend who is going into them.  However the principal of new users being hit with a levy when they did not get receipt of any loan is poor form.  It will be the number of new accounts that is key and there will be a formula somewhere being used to estimate that by the Government.  Could it be that the Government is worried about the number of non repayments by people so they are using another method for reducing that loss?  Obviously again unfair on a lot of people.

 

Bottom line is the policy is probably wrong as so many are saying.

Not sure about non-repayments.

I assume, all suppliers charge the £40 against every bill. This in turn goes to gov coffers. Non payment will be lumped on the suppliers as their debt to deal with.

[The Real Maroonblood]

19 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Not sure about non-repayments.

I assume, all suppliers charge the £40 against every bill. This in turn goes to gov coffers. Non payment will be lumped on the suppliers as their debt to deal with.

It’s a disgrace that you can’t opt out of this loan.

 

[ri Alban]

$93 a barrel and it's still £1.45  at the pump. $8.80 a gallon in the UK, $3 in the US. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by ri Alban

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

And England(2464) and Scotland(1892)? Where are they on the this list?

 

 

 

 

The table I was quoting from didn't give a regional breakdown but if your numbers are on the same basis England would be 12th and Scotland 18th (out of 32). Neither at or near the top which the post I was quoting implied.

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

It’s a disgrace that you can’t opt out of this loan.

 

Its not something to bothered about really.

Your getting £200 off a bill and getting £40 added to 5 future bills.

 

As I posted earlier, someone living with parents for example, setting up their first home after the £200 is granted, will get stung by this.

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

$93 a barrel and it's still £1.45  at the pump. $8.80 a gallon in the UK, $3 in the US. 

We all know the Yanks have it too easy with their fuel prices. Hence they drive about in fuel guzzlers and the worst polluters per head on earth.

Unfortunately in UK, despite taxing fuel heavily, we have eff all to show for it, just ends up in slush fund.

Norway being a nation who have run the oil resources at lot better.

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Its not something to bothered about really.

Your getting £200 off a bill and getting £40 added to 5 future bills.

 

As I posted earlier, someone living with parents for example, setting up their first home after the £200 is granted, will get stung by this.

Fair enough. 

This hike doesn't affect me so that's why I don't want it.

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

$93 a barrel and it's still £1.45  at the pump. $8.80 a gallon in the UK, $3 in the US. 

Don't forget that a US gallon isn't the same as a UK gallon. It's about 5/6. Still much cheaper than here though. They have much longer distances, much poorer public transport and fewer people concerned with the environment.

 

Fuel duty  has been stuck at 57.95p a litre here since 2011. Many European countries tax vehicle fuel even more than we do so we:re far from unique. It raises £37bn a year in tax receipts here. 

 

As we slowly shift to electric vehicles, that's obviously going to fall so we can probably look forward to road pricing to replace it. 

[Pans Jambo]

[joondalupjambo]

37 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Its not something to bothered about really.

Your getting £200 off a bill and getting £40 added to 5 future bills.

 

As I posted earlier, someone living with parents for example, setting up their first home after the £200 is granted, will get stung by this.

It is if you personally do not want it, or you do not need the 200 quid and would rather see the cash going directly to people who really need it.  Appreciate that everyone is different here with their views but as many, many folk and organisations are saying it is a bad policy, should have been more targeted.

[joondalupjambo]

What about holiday home owners?  Ones in my village are folk who are paying 200k for some of them and further along the coast in the next village they are staring around 300k and up to near a million for houses as a second home.  No way these households should be included in the scheme surely?

[Tommy Brown]

50 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

It is if you personally do not want it, or you do not need the 200 quid and would rather see the cash going directly to people who really need it.  Appreciate that everyone is different here with their views but as many, many folk and organisations are saying it is a bad policy, should have been more targeted.

 

Not arguing here, for a large % this £200 is meaningless. It will give a small bit respite to a lot also, though.

I think giving it to every single bill makes it a simpler administration excercise.

 

Which I hope answers your Holiday home analogy also.

 

they are trying to target lower incomes with the £150 off Council Tax Band A-D.

Only other way of helping lower budge families would be by means testing.

But this is far more expensive and time consuming.

 

 

i'm playing Devil's Advocate here, I am no tory supporter.

 

 

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

Don't forget that a US gallon isn't the same as a UK gallon. It's about 5/6. Still much cheaper than here though. They have much longer distances, much poorer public transport and fewer people concerned with the environment.

 

Fuel duty  has been stuck at 57.95p a litre here since 2011. Many European countries tax vehicle fuel even more than we do so we:re far from unique. It raises £37bn a year in tax receipts here. 

 

As we slowly shift to electric vehicles, that's obviously going to fall so we can probably look forward to road pricing to replace it. 

 

We like to compare how much cheaper per mile an electric car is to run v petrol.

 

A doubling of electric cost will so quaff that part of the argument. Interesting (more worrying) days ahead.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

Don't forget that a US gallon isn't the same as a UK gallon. It's about 5/6. Still much cheaper than here though. They have much longer distances, much poorer public transport and fewer people concerned with the environment.

 

Fuel duty  has been stuck at 57.95p a litre here since 2011. Many European countries tax vehicle fuel even more than we do so we:re far from unique. It raises £37bn a year in tax receipts here. 

 

As we slowly shift to electric vehicles, that's obviously going to fall so we can probably look forward to road pricing to replace it. 

I've just bought an electric Nissan Leaf. But still, for ma wee workie Kia.

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

We like to compare how much cheaper per mile an electric car is to run v petrol.

 

A doubling of electric cost will so quaff that part of the argument. Interesting (more worrying) days ahead.

Sign up and it's free to charge. Well I hope it's free or I might end up with a 

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

We like to compare how much cheaper per mile an electric car is to run v petrol.

 

A doubling of electric cost will so quaff that part of the argument. Interesting (more worrying) days ahead.

Only 5% VAT on electricity though. Nowhere near enough to compensate. There will be no further sales of petrol and diesel cars after 2030. Petrol and diesel will still be available for a long time afterwards though, for older cars.

 

I imagine we'll all have tracking devices fitted to our cars and be charged per mile in accordance with the type of vehicle.

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

We really are the arsehole end of Europe. 

[ri Alban]

Why do feel we have to keep give, give, giving to shareholders etc... 

This bollox really has to come to an end.  Oh no, they'll stop investing. Good and we'll stop bailing these ***** out.

[Cade]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

UK: Lifting price caps TWICE this year and using general taxation to subsidise the energy companies

 

[Tommy Brown]

10 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Only 5% VAT on electricity though. Nowhere near enough to compensate. There will be no further sales of petrol and diesel cars after 2030. Petrol and diesel will still be available for a long time afterwards though, for older cars.

 

I imagine we'll all have tracking devices fitted to our cars and be charged per mile in accordance with the type of vehicle.

 

Not sure what your angle is, can you please help this thicko.

 

My angle, if energy bills double, so does the cost of charging your car (whether at home or chaging point)

 

My diesel works about 16p per mile, a small petrol would be near 10p per mile

To charge an electric car at home it will cost around £10 to go go say 200 miles (5p per mile)

electricity could easily double by this time next year, making the charging cost 10p per mile.

 

Is my thinking flawed?

[joondalupjambo]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Not arguing here, for a large % this £200 is meaningless. It will give a small bit respite to a lot also, though.

I think giving it to every single bill makes it a simpler administration excercise.

 

Which I hope answers your Holiday home analogy also.

 

they are trying to target lower incomes with the £150 off Council Tax Band A-D.

Only other way of helping lower budge families would be by means testing.

But this is far more expensive and time consuming.

 

 

i'm playing Devil's Advocate here, I am no tory supporter.

 

 

No I appreciate that TB, I am just highlighting a few things by responding to you so that others can see some of the issues.  Your replies are helping to balance it all out and sure others can form opinions from it all.  Worth the chat to flesh all the stuff out. 

 

Yes I agree the admin is a nightmare and of course dropping it to everyone makes sense from that point of view.  Doing it via the tax system, and the UC systems would also solve that issue but that is not in the Tories mindset. It would mean just dropping in a sum of money to an account and we cannot have that, heavens the Shires would be up in arms 😀  As an aside a means tested tax system is where we need to get to I think but again is not a thing the Tories like.  

 

I cannot fathom out the bands for up here.  Again is it getting to the right people, debateable, perhaps more a vote worry issue for the Tories.  I think the SG has a tricky decision with this one.  A to C maybe more in their thinking but they be forced to go up one politically, time will tell.

 

Well TB good to chat and hope you are looking forward to today's game.

[indianajones]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

$93 a barrel and it's still £1.45  at the pump. $8.80 a gallon in the UK, $3 in the US. 

 

They are ripping the pish out of us at every opportunity just now. 

[Tommy Brown]

6 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

No I appreciate that TB, I am just highlighting a few things by responding to you so that others can see some of the issues.  Your replies are helping to balance it all out and sure others can form opinions from it all.  Worth the chat to flesh all the stuff out. 

 

Yes I agree the admin is a nightmare and of course dropping it to everyone makes sense from that point of view.  Doing it via the tax system, and the UC systems would also solve that issue but that is not in the Tories mindset. It would mean just dropping in a sum of money to an account and we cannot have that, heavens the Shires would be up in arms 😀  As an aside a means tested tax system is where we need to get to I think but again is not a thing the Tories like.  

 

I cannot fathom out the bands for up here.  Again is it getting to the right people, debateable, perhaps more a vote worry issue for the Tories.  I think the SG has a tricky decision with this one.  A to C maybe more in their thinking but they be forced to go up one politically, time will tell.

 

Well TB good to chat and hope you are looking forward to today's game.

 

 

I am, just fear we could suffer for them getting turned over on Wednesday.

All the best.

[Gizmo]

Nice to get this reassurance from Scottish Power:

"

Quote

As you may have heard in the news, the cost of wholesale energy has hit an all-time high - costing roughly three times more than it did a year ago. Ofgem, the energy regulator, has announced that the price cap will increase significantly on 1st April 2022, reflecting this steep rise in wholesale energy costs.

We know this is a challenging time for many of our customers, and understand you'll want to know how this will affect you. We'll be in touch by 10th March 2022 with the details on your new prices and how this will impact your energy costs. Please be assured, the price cap is designed to ensure you pay a fair price for your energy and, following the changes on 1st April, your prices will be protected until at least 1st October 2022."

Prices rising by 53% in April and they think protecting the prices for 6 months is reassuring? 

[SwindonJambo]

48 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Not sure what your angle is, can you please help this thicko.

 

My angle, if energy bills double, so does the cost of charging your car (whether at home or chaging point)

 

My diesel works about 16p per mile, a small petrol would be near 10p per mile

To charge an electric car at home it will cost around £10 to go go say 200 miles (5p per mile)

electricity could easily double by this time next year, making the charging cost 10p per mile.

 

Is my thinking flawed?

Nope, your thinking is far from flawed. We're just looking at it from 2 different angles.  You're looking at it on a cost to the consumer point of view and I'm looking at it from a government generating tax receipts point of view.

 

I expect in the long run with rising leccy prices, electric cars won't be any cheaper to run and perhaps even dearer, though they'll certainly be kinder to the environment.

 

The government will have to find a way to replace the tax receipts lost  in the move towards electric vehicles and road pricing seems the most likely thing.

Edited February 6, 2022 by SwindonJambo

[WorldChampions1902]

4 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Nice to get this reassurance from Scottish Power:

"Prices rising by 53% in April and they think protecting the prices for 6 months is reassuring? 

OFGEM are now pushing to change the Price CAP review period from every 6 months to every 3 months.

 

Which means we can expect to see a more immediate and frequent hike in energy bills once (not if), that happens.

 

Happy days!