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Var in Scottish football confirmed ( merged )


jamborich

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10 minutes ago, jamborich said:

Watching sportscene just to many wrong calls we have to address the incompetence of our refs 

Listening to Sportsound in the car going home after tonight's match, Alan Preston pointed out that there will be no Scottish refs officiating at the World Cup finals in Qatar later this year. Not too difficult to figure out why.

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lost in space
13 minutes ago, argyjambo said:

Listening to Sportsound in the car going home after tonight's match, Alan Preston pointed out that there will be no Scottish refs officiating at the World Cup finals in Qatar later this year. Not too difficult to figure out why.

Part of reason is that our refs have not used VAR.

Other reason is they aren't neutral.

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WheatfieldWarrior
29 minutes ago, argyjambo said:

Listening to Sportsound in the car going home after tonight's match, Alan Preston pointed out that there will be no Scottish refs officiating at the World Cup finals in Qatar later this year. Not too difficult to figure out why.

 

With the Scottish complexion, they might catch fire?

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August Landmesser

Is VAR worth it though? Looking at the English experience, it seems to spend most of it's time looking for reasons not to give a goal.

 

Decisions made with VAR take an age, and can still be, and are frequently, wrong.

 

I don't think it's worth sacrificing the spontaneity, joy and rage of live football just to pander to TV audiences.

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10 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

Is VAR worth it though? Looking at the English experience, it seems to spend most of it's time looking for reasons not to give a goal.

 

Decisions made with VAR take an age, and can still be, and are frequently, wrong.

 

I don't think it's worth sacrificing the spontaneity, joy and rage of live football just to pander to TV audiences.

It's not about TV audiences its about imo the integrity of the officials to many are linked to clubs the officials are rank not one of them invited to the world cup

Edited by jamborich
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Pasquale for King
15 minutes ago, StevenNaismith said:

All 4 officials tonight were Rangers fans, wouldn’t have known it. Beaton’s dislike for RN shone like a beacon. 

Surprised he was reluctant to send Biton off considering it would disrupt them even more before the uglies play next week. 

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1 hour ago, Snedds76 said:

Both goals were offside, ours and theres. 

 

I've not watched the highlights yet but I didn't celebrate our goal for afew seconds until I got the all clear from the lino 😂 it looked offside.   

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WheatfieldWarrior
52 minutes ago, jamborich said:

Watching sportscene just to many wrong calls we have to address the incompetence of our refs 

 

Yep.  It's not 1874 anymore. Nobody is kicking around a pig's bladder.  Camera are readily available.

 

The means is readily available to get these decisions correct. 

 

Even on the coverage, most of the chat focuses on the decisions that were wrong and clearly wrong.  Then during the post game interviews, they proceeded to ask both managers about the wrong decisions, decisions that they can't criticise the ref for or risk a ban. 

 

Football refs get way more abuse than they do at other sports like Rugby or Tennis.  Mostly down to wrong decisions that are obviously wrong then broadcast across the globe.

 

SFA are cave paintings in a digital age. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely needs to come in, can’t be many leagues without it now. 

One of my bairns leagues not got it yet mate.

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If we had VAR tonight, only one thing would have happened. 

 

Their goal would have stood for "inconclusive angles", and ours would have been ruled out for Boyce's eyebrow being 1mm offside. 

 

We wouldn't have got the second goal, and our push at the end wouldn't have happened. 

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Just now, tian447 said:

 and ours would have been ruled out for Boyce's eyebrow being 1mm offside. 

 

More like a curly bit on one of his ginger pubes had poked out his shorts fractionally.

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5 minutes ago, tian447 said:

If we had VAR tonight, only one thing would have happened. 

 

Their goal would have stood for "inconclusive angles", and ours would have been ruled out for Boyce's eyebrow being 1mm offside. 

 

We wouldn't have got the second goal, and our push at the end wouldn't have happened. 

The highlights not just our game but the rest prove our officials are incompetent 

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Dundee united v Ross County - Spot the  Handball.  :rofl:

 

**** sake I don't know what was worse, the blatant handballs or Mikey Stewart and Co saying it wasn't intentional.  Some of them easily avoidable.  Some coming at a fast pace. 

 

 

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HeartsandonlyHearts

When did deliberate handball stop being a yellow? Is it when you’re already on a yellow or only if you play for an @$$ cheek. 
3rd place is the best we or any other team can ever hope to reach. Used to hate “best of the rest” now it’s an actual thing. We should work to sign players to get us there every season and just sell them on European football every season. We could all be happy doing that. Ignore the two scummy teams 8 times a season. Don’t even do press conferences before you play them. Why discuss games that will mean nothing anyway. Scottish football sucks. Time to start getting selfish. 

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I believe that there is a shortage of referees coming through because of the abuse they take. Interesting point though as to whether a qualified referee should do it or if someone who understands the rules could do it, like a former player /referee? 

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32 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

When did deliberate handball stop being a yellow? Is it when you’re already on a yellow or only if you play for an @$$ cheek. 
3rd place is the best we or any other team can ever hope to reach. Used to hate “best of the rest” now it’s an actual thing. We should work to sign players to get us there every season and just sell them on European football every season. We could all be happy doing that. Ignore the two scummy teams 8 times a season. Don’t even do press conferences before you play them. Why discuss games that will mean nothing anyway. Scottish football sucks. Time to start getting selfish. 

And when did deliberately hauling back an opponent to stop a team breaking out alsls cease to be a yellow card? I know its the same reaxon but Jota shohld also have subsequently seen red with his booking at the clash with Devlin.

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Jambof3tornado
2 hours ago, heartened said:

And when did deliberately hauling back an opponent to stop a team breaking out alsls cease to be a yellow card? I know its the same reaxon but Jota shohld also have subsequently seen red with his booking at the clash with Devlin.

These are the decisions that make me believe its more than just incompetent referees. The gruesome twosome continue to be treated differently and if VAR helps highlight that it will benefit our game.

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5 hours ago, HMFC01 said:

 

I've not watched the highlights yet but I didn't celebrate our goal for afew seconds until I got the all clear from the lino 😂 it looked offside.   

I think the whole ground was like that, delayed reaction,     Then the roar after we all looked at the lino 😂

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3 hours ago, heartened said:

And when did deliberately hauling back an opponent to stop a team breaking out alsls cease to be a yellow card? I know its the same reaxon but Jota shohld also have subsequently seen red with his booking at the clash with Devlin.

You could see Haring and another player asking him why no card. He just ignored them. Remember this is the ref that booked 7 players after 7 fouls against them 

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3 hours ago, heartened said:

And when did deliberately hauling back an opponent to stop a team breaking out alsls cease to be a yellow card? I know its the same reaxon but Jota shohld also have subsequently seen red with his booking at the clash with Devlin.

This. It must be twenty years since I witnessed someone commit a foul like that and not receive a yellow card. To me, fouls like that are an “orange” card because the player believes he’s stopping a goalscoring opportunity, albeit not an obvious one. 

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Seymour M Hersh
6 hours ago, StevenNaismith said:

All 4 officials tonight were Rangers fans, wouldn’t have known it. Beaton’s dislike for RN shone like a beacon. 

 

The uglies act as a team versus the rest of us hence the term old firm. Always have and always will. 

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The SPFL', the SFA, the refs and the pundits don't seem to realise that by bending over backwards to ensure OF dominance they're actually limiting them as well as everyone else's imo by turning our game into a joke nobody can take seriously.

 

If we had a league that was competitive at the top, the winners varied, televised games weren't just OF away games and weren't hosted by backward, guffawing pundits pretending the ref wasn't a cheat and instead called out the bad decisions then I think we'd see our TV revenue increased. People outside of Scotland know our league is a joke.

 

More money and more domestic competition would actually see the OF do better in Europe imo, and would also see the rest of us win the league now and again but also at least stay in Europe past the first round.

 

If last night was an EPL game (var or no var), the pundits would have said both offsides were wrong and they'd have said Bitton should have been off. The commentators at the time would also have questioned the pull back on Haring.

 

Our lot of glaikit patsies all just go 'hmm hard to tell, must have been the right decision as Celtic benefited ho ho ho'. What a load of tosh.

Edited by Taffin
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7 hours ago, lost in space said:

Part of reason is that our refs have not used VAR.

Other reason is they aren't neutral.

Our refs use VAR when they officiate European matches so not sure why UEFA are using that as an excuse - they should just come out and say the reason our officials wont be at World Cup is because they are USELESS!

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7 hours ago, HMFC01 said:

 

I've not watched the highlights yet but I didn't celebrate our goal for afew seconds until I got the all clear from the lino 😂 it looked offside.   

Looked offside?!?!  I could tell from row 30 of the main stand he was at least a yard offside when the ball was played to him!!🤣  My celebration was muted until I saw the linesman running to the halfway line!!!

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Separate point, but Scottish football needs a referee training centre and alternate SFA HQ somewhere in the East of Scotland, perhaps near Fife or Dundee, somewhere in the middle but very much able to take in potential referees with backgrounds different to 98% of those that exist now. 

 

We cannot go on with the West of Scotland-centric approach dominating everything that happens in matches. It's a farce.

 

A mere 3 non-Glasgow referees refereeing Scottish Cup Finals in 150 years!

 

VAR and wider-demographic referees are what we need.

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20 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

A mere 3 non-Glasgow referees refereeing Scottish Cup Finals in 150 years!

And one of them was a self confessed Hibs person given a final involving Hearts. The **** could have walked to Easter Road from Parker Avenue (he’s not there now so giving nothing away) in less time than it took Hearts to bus it to Hampden 

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Perhaps Mr Neilson will be granted and audience with the SFA to discuss the referee's performance? Will Beaton be removed from the next round of games?

Do pigs fly?

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south morroccan

After Bitton handled on 65minutes the commentator said that he be subbed off as he'd certainly be red-carded after his next foul. 'Surprisingly' he wasn't taken off. On 72 minutes he conceded the penalty. 2nd yellow.... of course not. 

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  • 2 months later...
The White Cockade

Thought the var decision to overturn Alonso’s goal was iffy maybe it’s the rule change but ball possibly flicking his finger when it didn’t affect anything seems wrong to me

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Ex member of the SaS

Before VaR we need professional full time officials. Officials that have to justify their decisions and can be demoted for less pay if they get things wrong on a consistent basis.

VaR will only be used by the already poor officials we have now, and you can bet they will benefit two teams more than others.

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13 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Before VaR we need professional full time officials. Officials that have to justify their decisions and can be demoted for less pay if they get things wrong on a consistent basis.

VaR will only be used by the already poor officials we have now, and you can bet they will benefit two teams more than others.

Much harder to justify clear evidence on replay.

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Saint Jambo
1 hour ago, The White Cockade said:

Thought the var decision to overturn Alonso’s goal was iffy maybe it’s the rule change but ball possibly flicking his finger when it didn’t affect anything seems wrong to me

 

The VAR decision was correct.

"a player will still be penalised if he commits an accidental handball immediately before scoring himself."

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759#:~:text=Handball before scoring,to have been ruled out.

 

The main trouble with VAR that I can see is that we basically want different sets of rules depending on whether VAR is in place. For example the offside rule was adjusted to any part of the body being in front of the last defender to make it easier for linesmen to make the right call in real time. But with VAR that now means players are being correctly called offside for extremely fine margins. The advantage has shifted too far to the defender. In games with VAR it would be better to now say the player is onside if any of their body is in line with any of the last defender.

 

Similarly with handballs. The interpretation about natural body shape was brought in to reduce the need for refs to infer intentionality in real time. But with VAR every brush of the ball against an arm is now spotted and we can slow the footage down to see if the arm ever came away from the side. But with VAR it would be better to go back to the old interpretation and use the video to see if the player actually made a move with their arm towards the ball.

 

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2 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Before VaR we need professional full time officials. Officials that have to justify their decisions and can be demoted for less pay if they get things wrong on a consistent basis.

VaR will only be used by the already poor officials we have now, and you can bet they will benefit two teams more than others.

Before VAR we need neutral officials ie from all across Scotland not just Weegieland.

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The article I was reading about VAR in Scottish football, the sliding scale of payment for its use, and who will be operating it, gave me the absolute fear. No way this will work in anyone's favour but the Old Firms. Down south they are using Harrords VAR, up here (like everything else in our game) we will be dealing with a Poundland version! 

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Rogue Daddy
3 minutes ago, Fraggle said:

The article I was reading about VAR in Scottish football, the sliding scale of payment for its use, and who will be operating it, gave me the absolute fear. No way this will work in anyone's favour but the Old Firms. Down south they are using Harrords VAR, up here (like everything else in our game) we will be dealing with a Poundland version! 

Is this what pundits/media refer to when they say 'as long as we use it the same as the rest of Europe and UEFA... and not like England'? I've heard this said a few times now on various TV programs and podcasts and I'm still none the wiser as to what they are referring to or what the differences are. Can anyone help me out?

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Footballfirst

There was an odd VAR call in Hearts U18 game last night.

 

Harry Gordon appeared to have scored for Hearts with a shot from 25 yards that had taken a deflection past the Dundee United keeper. Alan Muir, the ref, gave the goal.

 

However the VAR intervened re a possible offside, taking an age to make a decision.  The nearside lino didn't know what was going on and said that he only had the same view as us in the stand.

 

Now if the ball deflected off a Hearts player in an offside position, then fair enough, offside would be the correct call. Such an offside decision would be made by the VAR.

 

What we got however, was the Ref being asked to look at the monitor, which he did, then he gave offside. The only situation I know of that would fit that sequence of events is if a Hearts player in an offside position was deemed to have affected the keeper's line of sight.

 

Now both the deflection, which must have been off a United player and the "offside" Hearts player were at least 10-12 yards out from the keeper. So at what distance does line of sight cease to become an issue?. Was the Hearts player in line of sight of the original shot or the deflection? Should that make a difference? Following the decision to disallow the goal, those watching the game were left totally in the dark about the reason for the offside decision. It was not a good look.

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31 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Is this what pundits/media refer to when they say 'as long as we use it the same as the rest of Europe and UEFA... and not like England'? I've heard this said a few times now on various TV programs and podcasts and I'm still none the wiser as to what they are referring to or what the differences are. Can anyone help me out?

 

I only seen the article the other day, and for the life of me I can't remember if it was the BBC or elsewhere?

 

Up here it will be used in the top division only, paid for on a sliding scale fee depending on league position. From what I could gather (and the bit that really scared me) the VAR studio is at Hampden, and will be operated by both current and ex Grade 1 refs (wonder who they could be, and all from!!) 

 

In regards to the comments on podcast and other media, I suspect they are suggesting that they don't want to see VAR popping up every 2 seconds, nitpicking at every decision, like down south and elsewhere. Ultimately, these people will just want to make sure that the status quo is kept, and decisions in favour of two certain teams increased. 

 

IMO, those that are suggesting VAR up here will solve current issues with refereeing are going to be in for a nasty shock. 

Edited by Fraggle
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4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

There was an odd VAR call in Hearts U18 game last night.

 

Harry Gordon appeared to have scored for Hearts with a shot from 25 yards that had taken a deflection past the Dundee United keeper. Alan Muir, the ref, gave the goal.

 

However the VAR intervened re a possible offside, taking an age to make a decision.  The nearside lino didn't know what was going on and said that he only had the same view as us in the stand.

 

Now if the ball deflected off a Hearts player in an offside position, then fair enough, offside would be the correct call. Such an offside decision would be made by the VAR.

 

What we got however, was the Ref being asked to look at the monitor, which he did, then he gave offside. The only situation I know of that would fit that sequence of events is if a Hearts player in an offside position was deemed to have affected the keeper's line of sight.

 

Now both the deflection, which must have been off a United player and the "offside" Hearts player were at least 10-12 yards out from the keeper. So at what distance does line of sight cease to become an issue?. Was the Hearts player in line of sight of the original shot or the deflection? Should that make a difference? Following the decision to disallow the goal, those watching the game were left totally in the dark about the reason for the offside decision. It was not a good look.

 

Line of sight is a bit of a problem. 

 

Different decisions have been made across Europe. Its an area that needs clarified. 

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Footballfirst
8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Line of sight is a bit of a problem. 

 

Different decisions have been made across Europe. Its an area that needs clarified. 

I've asked a friend of mine who is an Assistant Ref and does premiership games. He is going to see if he can find out the reasoning for the decision.

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On 27/01/2022 at 10:47, Hearts1975 said:

We need it desperately, as we must have the most incompetent and bias set of referees in Europe. 
 

Incompetent, yes.  Biased, not really.  However when officiating at Ibrox or Parkhead with 60K fanatics baying for your blood your decision is affected.  The same at away games where their more noisy individuals fuelled on Buckfast attend.  Difficult to stay unbiased on feeble money.

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Var in Scottish football confirmed ( merged )

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