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Russia Invades Ukraine


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Starting to get big now.
 

https://apple.news/ALlhwSGyAR4SBNeQwvGoenQ

Ukraine is massing a million-strong fighting force equipped with western weapons to recover its southern territory from Russia, the nation’s defence minister has revealed to The Times.

In his first interview with a British newspaper since the invasion began, Oleksii Reznikov said President Zelensky had ordered Ukraine’s military to retake occupied coastal areas which are vital to the country’s economy.

“We understand that, politically, it’s very necessary for our country. The president has given the order to the supreme military chief to draw up plans. After that the general staff are doing their homework and say to achieve this goal we need XYZ,” he said. “This is my job. I’m writing letters to counterparts in partner countries, the generals talk about why we need this kind of weaponry and then we get the political decisions.”

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10,000 Ukrainian troops are in the UK for specialist training.

Similar numbers are in France and Germany to receive similar training in the use of western weapons.

 

Let's see how Ivan deals with a proper full scale counter offensive rather than the small scale ones we've seen thus far.

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2 hours ago, Imaman said:

Starting to get big now.
 

https://apple.news/ALlhwSGyAR4SBNeQwvGoenQ

Ukraine is massing a million-strong fighting force equipped with western weapons to recover its southern territory from Russia, the nation’s defence minister has revealed to The Times.

In his first interview with a British newspaper since the invasion began, Oleksii Reznikov said President Zelensky had ordered Ukraine’s military to retake occupied coastal areas which are vital to the country’s economy.

“We understand that, politically, it’s very necessary for our country. The president has given the order to the supreme military chief to draw up plans. After that the general staff are doing their homework and say to achieve this goal we need XYZ,” he said. “This is my job. I’m writing letters to counterparts in partner countries, the generals talk about why we need this kind of weaponry and then we get the political decisions.”

 

 

You would think they would want to keep what they're going to do a secret, In WW2 they went to great lengths to hide D-Day and even built a fake army. Russia just needs to dig in and get ammunition up to the front to feed them off.

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On 06/07/2022 at 11:41, Cruyff said:

I wish the west would either back this or sack it off now, it's costing us a fortune to watch Ukraine slowly lose to Russia. 

 

Back or sack, either way, it's costing us a shocking fortune. The price increases we're experiencing currently, are only the tip...the full wedge will ruin many peoples lifestyles.

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14 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Back or sack, either way, it's costing us a shocking fortune. The price increases we're experiencing currently, are only the tip...the full wedge will ruin many peoples lifestyles.

The west needs to go all in really, the new himars sent to Ukraine seem to be making a huge difference and hopefully military training will as well. However, the Russians still have 4 or 5 times what Ukraine have in manpower, equipment and ammo and they are taking & holding enormous swathes of Ukraine that will likely never be recovered. 

 

Whatever the West’s plan is they better ensure it's a win for Ukraine because as you say, long term this is hitting us in the pocket. 

Edited by Cruyff
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I feel there may be a scenario developing in which this could play out for a long time. Into next year and even beyond. The thing about it is the lines have been clearly drawn in the sand, no matter how the Ukraine situation ends.

 

Even if all Russian forces were pushed out and the war stopped this face off with Russia will not be over. It's clear we cannot live long term with this regime. It has to be removed before we would ever have any type of diplomacy with them again.

 

I see it as even more of a face off than the cold war was maybe the Stalin years aside. I think they may have decided we need to go all out to topple this regime and the best way to do it avoiding a direct confrontation is to bleed them dry with this proxy war they started.

 

The longer this goes on the more difficult it will be for Russia to maintain it. They're not a great financial or industrial or tech power. While the other side of the coin is Ukraine becoming stronger with each passing month.

 

It may be in the interest of the West to maintain this war as long as it takes. Absolutely no concessions. Pre invasion borders minimum starting point.

 

Bleed them dry while it goes without saying in the background there will be all manner of shady James Bond types from multiple allied nations in every nook and cranny trying to foment a coup.

 

If that is the case poor Ukrainians, they might have to live like this for years. But unlike us whining about our economies I think they're up for it. Tough people, I don't have full confidence the British population would have responded so stoically and defiantly in the face of this monster.

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indianajones

Surely there isn't 30 odd thousand Ukrainian troops in foreign lands being trained? 

 

These bodies will be needed at home just now? 

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12 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Surely there isn't 30 odd thousand Ukrainian troops in foreign lands being trained? 

 

These bodies will be needed at home just now? 

 

Much easier to mobilise the trainers?

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indianajones
1 minute ago, OBE said:

 

Much easier to mobilise the trainers?

 

You would think. 

 

Also could be classed as foreign meddling by the crazy one. 

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7 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

You would think. 

 

Also could be classed as foreign meddling by the crazy one. 

 

Just read, the Ukrainians are being trained in the UK, just outside Manchester.

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highlandjambo3
13 hours ago, Cade said:

10,000 Ukrainian troops are in the UK for specialist training.

Similar numbers are in France and Germany to receive similar training in the use of western weapons.

 

Let's see how Ivan deals with a proper full scale counter offensive rather than the small scale ones we've seen thus far.

The textbook offensive numbers verses the defenders is 3 to 1…..this is a tough ask for Ukrainian soldiers.  Course well placed air/artillery strikes are crucial.

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Zelensky has previously stated he's going to raise a million man army. But this going to come down other factors like drones.

 

They're getting new longer range weaponry which is drone operated. Drone or even a satellite spots a target and sends the info to the drone, who then goes and 'spots' the target guiding the barrage directly on to it.

 

Th biggest advantage Russia has had is long range artillery, that's what's been devastating Ukrainian cities. If Ukraine can get enough of these longer range weapons they can wreak havoc on that Russian artillery. And anything else besides.

 

Whoever most efficiently handles their drones linked to long range weapons systems has an advantage. To this stage the Ivan's have come across as utterly incompetent in every way.

 

It hasn't changed since WW2, just swamp them with overwhelming numbers no matter the casualties.

Edited by JFK-1
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highlandjambo3
7 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Zelensky has previously stated he's going to raise a million man army. But this going to come down other factors like drones.

 

It hasn't changed since WW2, just swamp them with overwhelming numbers no matter the casualties.

Hitting legitimate targets inside Russia would certainly rock the boat

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19 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Hitting legitimate targets inside Russia would certainly rock the boat

 

How likely do you think that is?

 

The longer this goes on, the more I feel that it would be an appropriate response, but would give Russia the ability to claim it was just a special operation and Ukraine turned it into a war.

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highlandjambo3
5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

How likely do you think that is?

 

The longer this goes on, the more I feel that it would be an appropriate response, but would give Russia the ability to claim it was just a special operation and Ukraine turned it into a war.

Russia will spin it anyway they want, we’ve already seen that.  Thing is, if Russian forces have a safe haven just inside their side of the border then rest and resupply will give them a huge advantage if an advancing force is trying to push them back.  If I had that kit I’d be hitting everything legit out to the max range.

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2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Hitting legitimate targets inside Russia would certainly rock the boat

 

Ukraine has already hit several Russian oil refineries with suicide drones.

And their new western artillery is hitting Russian supply lines and depots hard.

 

 

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SectionDJambo
22 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Russia will spin it anyway they want, we’ve already seen that.  Thing is, if Russian forces have a safe haven just inside their side of the border then rest and resupply will give them a huge advantage if an advancing force is trying to push them back.  If I had that kit I’d be hitting everything legit out to the max range.

It's strange, but typical of the Russian mindset, that it's ok for them to launch missiles into residential Kiev and other cities and towns well away from the current front line, but they think that any strikes from Ukraine into Russia is provocative.

Russia expects a safe haven to rest, supply and regroup their invading forces, but ordinary Ukrainian citizens have to live in fear of their homes being destroyed whilst they sleep.

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Russia have stationed all their very long range missiles inside the perimeter of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, Europe's largest nuclear power station.

No way to knock their artillery out with airstrikes or opposing artillery without causing a huge environmental catastrophe.

Typical Russian arsehole behaviour.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Cade said:

Russia have stationed all their very long range missiles inside the perimeter of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, Europe's largest nuclear power station.

No way to knock their artillery out with airstrikes or opposing artillery without causing a huge environmental catastrophe.

Typical Russian arsehole behaviour.

 

 

 

This could potentially be catastrophic on a continental scale. Now i'm guessing no one will try to strike into the plant. But even if that were the case they must have arms dumps in there. And we know how unreliable everything about their shit is.

 

Just being in there and storing explosives while firing off missiles from dodgy Russian systems is a disaster waiting to happen, minimum Chernobyl level event.

 

I'm wondering what the international response to this will be because at a bare minimum it's being guilty of risking a continental catastrophe.

 

Apparently one reason for it is they have been getting taken out in greater numbers with new Ukrainian weapons systems coming into play. So, retreat in here and continue indiscriminately bombarding urban areas killing civilians.

 

Even beyond the barbarity of randomly shelling those civilians this sitting in a nuclear plant is another level of terrorism. The potential for a very large WMD like event.

 

 

Edited by JFK-1
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It does sit right on the banks of the Dnieper river, which is the de facto front line, so an amphibious infantry assault would be possible.

 

But even then it'd be very difficult to storm the plant without causing damage to the plant.

 

Probably better to just force the Russians to retreat by re-taking the surrounding areas.

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There was already a close call with that plant early in the war due to Russian recklessness. Some of you may remember this, they actually fired shells into that plant but luckily nothing critical was damaged.

 

One shell did fall on a critical piece of equipment but failed to explode, best of Russian. If it had exploded the cooling system would have been taken out and at least one reactor, there are 6 in total, would have gone into meltdown.

 

That's how close we came.

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I just found myself wondering how far along smart bullets are, this has been in the pipeline for a long time. Because one way to try to safely remove these cretins might be sniper fire.

 

But even if it were possible to start picking them off with traditional sniper fire you would think even  Russkie might conclude after a couple of whackings we need cover.

 

A smart bullet on the other hand guided by a drone too small to see or too natural looking to catch the eye. Like these little fellas.

 

Regarding which incidentally for anyone who saw the Black Mirror episode with Kelly McDonald titled 'Hated in the Nation' you might find some of this a bit creepy.

 

 

 

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Russians massing for a major offensive in the south, towards Odesa and probably on to the breakaway Transnistria region of Moldova.

 

However, western agencies reckon that the Russian ground forces have lost 30% of their effectiveness.

Not just the invasion force. The entire Russian army has lost 30% of its capabilities since they began this war.

That doesn't mean they've lost 30% of the men and machines, but takes into account ammo and logistics and other factors like those.

They're almost out of long range cruise missiles and other such heavy artillery ammunition.

They're even having to try to buy drones from Iran.

 

Ukraine's effectiveness, if anything, has increased (at least a bit), with modern, western artillery pieces making their presence felt behind the Russian lines and tens of thousands of troops getting extra training in various European nations.

 

This is not going to be a quick war any more. It's going to be a long, drawn out attritional war fought across slowly moving front lines.

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Zelensky keeps saying he's raising a million man army. I had my doubts about that but have come to believe it. We know there are tens of thousands of Ukrainians scattered around Europe being trained.

 

I don't know how long it take to build a million man army, but the fact they appear to be going for it displays a long term strategy of taking this to another level.

 

Support for the war in Ukraine is at 95% as is Zelensky's approval rating. These people are in this for the long haul and I have nothing but admiration for their defiance and valour in the face of this beast from the East.

 

I think there's a feeling too many have already died to ever give up on this. Last I heard they still estimated 10,000 dead in Mariupol alone.

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On 18/07/2022 at 07:44, JFK-1 said:

I just found myself wondering how far along smart bullets are, this has been in the pipeline for a long time. Because one way to try to safely remove these cretins might be sniper fire.

 

But even if it were possible to start picking them off with traditional sniper fire you would think even  Russkie might conclude after a couple of whackings we need cover.

 

A smart bullet on the other hand guided by a drone too small to see or too natural looking to catch the eye. Like these little fellas.

 

Regarding which incidentally for anyone who saw the Black Mirror episode with Kelly McDonald titled 'Hated in the Nation' you might find some of this a bit creepy.

 

 

 

What about sending these bad boys in  - US drones filled with mosquitos spreading bioagents   ?

 

 

 

 

 

FPMWkM_X0A0RYFR.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, felix said:

What about sending these bad boys in  - US drones filled with mosquitos spreading bioagents   ?

 

 

 

 

 

FPMWkM_X0A0RYFR.jpeg

 

Cuba complained to the UN about the USA dropping insects over their crop fields in 1997.

 

You may scoff at that claim, but Japan DID release plague and cholera infected insects in China during WW2, which caused massive casualties. An estimated half a million Chinese perished.

 

And during the Cold War, the USA dropped 300,000 mosquitos on its own cities to test the effectiveness of the idea.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomological_warfare

 

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Russia has seemingly introduced conscription in the captured Donetsk region.

All males of fighting age are being forced to join the army.

 

Why risk Russian soldiers when you can conscript Ukrainians into the Russian army?

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37 minutes ago, Cade said:

Russia has seemingly introduced conscription in the captured Donetsk region.

All males of fighting age are being forced to join the army.

 

Why risk Russian soldiers when you can conscript Ukrainians into the Russian army?

I can't imagine that'll work out well as their hardly likely to be motivated. Would be nice if they shot their Russian officers and just went home though.

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jack D and coke
On 30/06/2022 at 08:55, Boab said:

It is a strange one. The UK is giving £1B in total in this latest military aid package. The SG is giving £65M out of their budget. 

I don't get it personally. If defence is not a devolved matter, let the money come from the UK defence budget, if that's what they want to do.

 

The SG were ordered to give it. Or the British govt would then take it out the next block grant. 
They can borrow it or just make more money from the BOE I should say whereas we have to take it from our budget somewhere. 
Not that we shouldn’t help them btw. 
 

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On 19/07/2022 at 07:34, felix said:

What about sending these bad boys in  - US drones filled with mosquitos spreading bioagents   ?

 

Smart bullets are preferable.

 

The Extreme Accuracy Tasked Ordnance system, or EXACTO, pursues to develop the first-ever guided small-caliber bullet to improve the effectiveness of snipers.

 

 

 

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Footballfirst
3 hours ago, jonesy said:

With the grain shipment agreement and now Lithuania reopening the rail corridor to Kaliningrad, it would appear that Russia is slowly creeping back towards being involved in the western international sphere. Perhaps some countries getting twitchy bums when thinking about gas supplies for the winter. It's all well and good standing with Ukraine, but not if that means auld dears are dying in their homes in Vilnius and Berlin.

Those nice Russians have fired missiles at Odessa, less than 24 hours after signing an agreement to allow grain shipments from Odessa.

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Diadora Van Basten

It’s quite disgusting that World Leaders will make deals to make money but then send children to wage their wars for them and let them die at the hands of high powered technological weapons.

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6 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

It’s quite disgusting that World Leaders will make deals to make money but then send children to wage their wars for them and let them die at the hands of high powered technological weapons.

Old men start wars, young men fight and die in them. It's as old as time.

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1 hour ago, Mister T said:

Old men start wars, young men fight and die in them. It's as old as time.

 

Frankie Goes To Hollywood, 2 Tribes video, get the lardy, ugly, pish stained leaders in the ring to sort out their differences

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Unknown user
4 hours ago, OBE said:

 

Frankie Goes To Hollywood, 2 Tribes video, get the lardy, ugly, pish stained leaders in the ring to sort out their differences

 

Why don't presidents fight the war?

Why do they always send the poor?

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Russia cutting gas supply to Europe.

And it's not even winter.

It really is rock and a hard place that Russia could place many European nations.

Only France and Poland could realistically power themselves so there's no option of importation from within.The worrying escalation could see industry and domestic power cuts come winter.

This also affects us.Despite brexit .

 

The question is for me will we see a weakening of European opposition to the conflict now?

Russia seem to be nearing a position of real strength.

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5 hours ago, Ked said:

Russia cutting gas supply to Europe.

And it's not even winter.

It really is rock and a hard place that Russia could place many European nations.

Only France and Poland could realistically power themselves so there's no option of importation from within.The worrying escalation could see industry and domestic power cuts come winter.

This also affects us.Despite brexit .

 

The question is for me will we see a weakening of European opposition to the conflict now?

Russia seem to be nearing a position of real strength.

 

According to a report I read which was produced by a team in on of the Irish universities, continental Europe could probably manage one winter without Russian supplies, but it's unlikely countries could manage anything longer than that.  In any case, prices would rise significantly across the board, even in countries with little or no Russian gas in the mix (like the UK and Ireland).  Supply issues might weaken resolve on the continent, but price hikes could turn out to be a bigger problem for both the EU and the UK.

 

War (or conflict, if you prefer) is tricky and costly.  The West generally (and Europe in particular) is trying to fight the Russians while at the same time avoiding direct military conflict and also relying on them for energy supplies.  Ultimately that's got so many contradictions that it's simply not possible, so at some point the West either has to up the ante or fold.  It's a simple proposition; the West massively outguns and outweighs Russia economically and militarily (like by a factor of more than 20), but Russia has nuclear weapons, lots of hydrocarbons, and an apparent capacity for madness.  Unless the West is willing to take a real risk and test the Russians to the limit, there's a real chance of losing the conflict despite Russia being a far smaller and far weaker enemy.  The West isn't willing to do that, because it lacks clarity and unity of purpose - which, to be fair, you can't say about Russia (or China).

 

 

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John Gentleman
On 21/07/2022 at 04:22, Mister T said:

I can't imagine that'll work out well as their hardly likely to be motivated. Would be nice if they shot their Russian officers and just went home though.

Possibly. It's interesting that prior to this war, 65%-70% of Donbas people still wanted to remain in a sovereign Ukraine, rather than 'merge' with Russia, even though their first language was Russian. This was the result of multiple polls taken in the region from 2014 -- when the Russians 'took over' Crimea.
Russian sympathisers or not, it seems that the majority of people knew which side their bread was buttered on.

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3 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

Possibly. It's interesting that prior to this war, 65%-70% of Donbas people still wanted to remain in a sovereign Ukraine, rather than 'merge' with Russia, even though their first language was Russian. This was the result of multiple polls taken in the region from 2014 -- when the Russians 'took over' Crimea.
Russian sympathisers or not, it seems that the majority of people knew which side their bread was buttered on.

I thought the Donbas elections in 2014 showed huge support for separatist Donetsk Peoples Republic & polls from Donetsk University at the same times, showed support for Zakharchenko, someone seeking to detach Donbas from Ukraine ?

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9 hours ago, felix said:

I thought the Donbas elections in 2014 showed huge support for separatist Donetsk Peoples Republic & polls from Donetsk University at the same times, showed support for Zakharchenko, someone seeking to detach Donbas from Ukraine ?

 

Why did you think that?

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