Anne. ITV Drama about Hillsborough

[Nucky Thompson]

Really intense first episode last night. I could really feel it.

It's on for the next 3 nights

 

15 year old happy go lucky laddie goes to the football and doesn't return 

[GinRummy]

Was hard going but very emotive tv. The part where Anne had to pick her son out from Polaroid pictures really highlighted the tragedy and personal devastation. 

 

Good cast in general but Maxine Peake especially, is a fantastic actor. 

[Nucky Thompson]

21 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Was hard going but very emotive tv. The part where Anne had to pick her son out from Polaroid pictures really highlighted the tragedy and personal devastation. 

 

Good cast in general but Maxine Peake especially, is a fantastic actor. 

That part really got to me.

Imagine haven't to pick out a picture of your dead teenager from loads of other pictures of dead young men.

 

 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

That part really got to me.

Imagine haven't to pick out a picture of your dead teenager from loads of other pictures of dead young men.

 

 

The Mrs was even more horrified than me. I’m guessing the only other option at that time, to get a quick ID, would be a row of bodies. Doesn’t bare thinking about. 

[Tazio]

I didn’t watch it but it did cross my mind it was a bit insensitive to programme it on the anniversary of the Ibrox disaster. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Tazio

[John Findlay]

17 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I didn’t watch it but it did cross my mind it was a bit insensitive to programme it on the anniversary of the Ibrox disaster. 

I doubt the bigwigs in London realised it was the 50th Anniversary of that disaster yesterday. STV failed in pointing it out to them.

[Ray Gin]

You lost me at "ITV Drama"

 

[EH11_2NL]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Was hard going but very emotive tv. The part where Anne had to pick her son out from Polaroid pictures really highlighted the tragedy and personal devastation. 

 

Good cast in general but Maxine Peake especially, is a fantastic actor. 

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

😂

[Nucky Thompson]

6 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

You lost me at "ITV Drama"

 

There's been a few decent ITV ones lately based on true stories.

 

Anne has been the best in a while

[Helzibob]

Binge watched all episodes last night. Thought it was really well done. Shame Anne didn’t live to see the the verdict of unlawful killing. She deserved that for all her work and perseverance. 

[rudi must stay]

On Britbox as well

[rudi must stay]

On 03/01/2022 at 13:50, GinRummy said:

Was hard going but very emotive tv. The part where Anne had to pick her son out from Polaroid pictures really highlighted the tragedy and personal devastation. 

 

Good cast in general but Maxine Peake especially, is a fantastic actor. 

 

Very good actress

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, rudi must stay said:

On Britbox as well

Is Britbox worth the subscription?

[rudi must stay]

3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Is Britbox worth the subscription?

 

Yes has all the BBC and ITV dramas

[Maroon Sailor]

On 03/01/2022 at 15:48, EH11_2NL said:

 

Always thought she liked the carpet

[The Real Maroonblood]

15 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Yes has all the BBC and ITV dramas

👍

[JFK-1]

I will never be able to forget it and I wish I could. Next day the front pages were covered with pictures of people crushed against the fences. Crushed so tightly their faces were being minced through it almost. Behind this visage of people being smashed against the fence there was this one young lad who was clearly purple with eyes closed. 

I had once been involved in a little crush at Hampden during a game I can't remember which. This was back in the time of people taking "cairy oots" into stadiums as a habit.

I was only about 12 and small and was right at the front against the wall with the track in front of it. Behind a goal. I was there with another boy my age and no accompanying adults. Truth be told I wasn't supposed to be there, my parents didn't know and wouldn't have allowed it.

Behind us in the crowd some sort of battle begins, I can hear a ruckus, looks back and the air is absolutely filled with flying objects like bottles etc. The crowd begins rushing forward and quickly i'm being crushed against that wall maybe a little above waist height.

I might have blacked out to some degree, next thing I know I'm standing on the track with a cop who has pulled me out of there while others are also being plucked out or are spilling out.

I could picture what it would have been like in there if it had been a big fence rather than a little wall and a track to spread on to. I certainly wouldn't have been getting out and neither would my mate.

It was what I thought of when I saw those people crushed against that fence. And from that moment I despised whoever was responsible for those fences. It was insanity and always a disaster waiting to happen. 

[hughesie27]

19 hours ago, Helzibob said:

Binge watched all episodes last night. Thought it was really well done. Shame Anne didn’t live to see the the verdict of unlawful killing. She deserved that for all her work and perseverance. 

[Nucky Thompson]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

I'm glad it's a true story or I would've been raging 

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I'm glad it's a true story or I would've been raging 

I'm not clued up on which parts are real and fictional (the first Ep establishes that some changes ha e been made to protect victims). Eejit behaviour. 🤣

[luckyBatistuta]

3 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

I’m with you on this hughesie, didn’t know she wasn’t still alive. 
 

Watched the first two episodes last night and found it a really difficult watch. The moment where the female officer told her he opened his eyes and said mum set me off. As a parent of two boys close to that age, it’s unbearable thinking of someone having to go through that. Tragic watching it at the time unfolding, but still hurts watching this today.

[Remnants of Standards]

Won't be watching this as I just can't go there. Actually applied for tckts to the fateful game as a 15yr old. Liverpool wrote back saying it was season tckt holders only eligible. Threw letter in the bin, forgot about it and was at Dens watching Hearts that day. 

Hadn't a clue what had happened until I got back to the coach.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Remnants of Standards

[Maroon Sailor]

The cover up of this tragedy was / is disgraceful.

 

Mistakes were made

 

Biggest thing for me was that they should have delayed the kick off.

 

[Ulysses]

This is the Guardian article from when Anne Williams died in April 2013.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/hillsborough-campaigner-anne-williams-dies1

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

10 hours ago, Ulysses said:

This is the Guardian article from when Anne Williams died in April 2013.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/hillsborough-campaigner-anne-williams-dies1

 

 

She was a determined woman who was devoted to getting the truth, probably to the detriment of her other family members

[John Findlay]

11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

This is the Guardian article from when Anne Williams died in April 2013.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/hillsborough-campaigner-anne-williams-dies1

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

She was a determined woman who was devoted to getting the truth, probably to the detriment of her other family members

STV are screening a hour long documentary tonight 21.00-22.00 on the live of Anne Williams.

I'm at work so have put it on to record.

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

She was a determined woman who was devoted to getting the truth, probably to the detriment of her other family members

Probably ? Definitely I’d say. Can’t blame her though. 

[Mikey1874]

While the Police have taken most of the blame it was good to see the emergency services mentioned.

 

The failure of the emergency services to take responsibility maybe reflected in them failing so badly at the Manchester Arena bombing 28 years later. 

[Ulysses]

On 06/01/2022 at 09:05, Nucky Thompson said:

She was a determined woman who was devoted to getting the truth, probably to the detriment of her other family members

 

That's an interesting take. 

 

When someone in a family dies in that way, and then the apparatus of the state tries to cover up the causes and shift the blame to the dead, that's going to cause a lot of trauma for all the family members.  If my son were unlawfully killed, I'm not sure where I'd draw the lines in trying to get at the truth of how that happened and who was responsible.

[Jack Torrance]

Started to watch this tonight. I can remember it coming on live at the time, like it was yesterday and this brought it back. Heavy stuff and was very distressing to see at the time.

 

Its something anyone into football should watch and read up about. It changed how football fans were treated, for the better. An absolute tradegy and horrific how it took so long for the truth to come out.

 

I'm two episodes in. Pity they haven't made more of the disgusting behaviour of the tabloids at the time, particularly The Sun. I've never bought a tabloid since. I remember the headlines well.

 

Really well-made drama. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to the rest but I'll be watching it.

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

That's an interesting take. 

 

When someone in a family dies in that way, and then the apparatus of the state tries to cover up the causes and shift the blame to the dead, that's going to cause a lot of trauma for all the family members.  If my son were unlawfully killed, I'm not sure where I'd draw the lines in trying to get at the truth of how that happened and who was responsible.

 

I think in her case she had a lot of information that her son was still alive beyond 3:15

 

There then becomes a point when somebody has gone too far searching for the truth to just give up.

[Jack Torrance]

Mods, I reckon this should be in The Terrace.

[John Findlay]

14 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

That's an interesting take. 

 

When someone in a family dies in that way, and then the apparatus of the state tries to cover up the causes and shift the blame to the dead, that's going to cause a lot of trauma for all the family members.  If my son were unlawfully killed, I'm not sure where I'd draw the lines in trying to get at the truth of how that happened and who was responsible.

Her husband at the time of the Hillsborough disaster was the Stepfather of Kevin. As much as he loved the laddie, his love was not as deep as that of the mother, therefore he was,not as relentless as her in her and the other families pursuit of truth and justice. Anne herself waned around the 1999 time when Jack Straw wouldn't give the go ahead for new inquests. It needed a complete overhaul and change of focus from  the families to re-ignite her passion and fight, and I think it was just to much for her husband.

[SectionDJambo]

12 hours ago, Jack Torrance said:

Started to watch this tonight. I can remember it coming on live at the time, like it was yesterday and this brought it back. Heavy stuff and was very distressing to see at the time.

 

Its something anyone into football should watch and read up about. It changed how football fans were treated, for the better. An absolute tradegy and horrific how it took so long for the truth to come out.

 

I'm two episodes in. Pity they haven't made more of the disgusting behaviour of the tabloids at the time, particularly The Sun. I've never bought a tabloid since. I remember the headlines well.

 

Really well-made drama. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to the rest but I'll be watching it.

 

 

Considering the condition of some football grounds back then and the attitudes of authority, including football associations, it's no surprise that a tragedy of this magnitude occurred. 

It was a time of widespread football hooliganism, but we were all treated as potential troublemakers. Not much thought of reduced numbers, as an example, to make policing easier. Just cram them in, lock the doors behind them and fence them in from the pitch. The fences came down immediately after Hillsborough.

Scottish football learned little from Ibrox either. Crowds were still allowed to be at huge levels for years. I've been in some scary situations, as will have many others, before all seated stadia became the rule.

134,000 at Hampden.

Parkhead for the cup semi final against Rangers.

Exiting Easter Road, both before and after the big terracing was taken away.

43,000 at Tynecastle.

Loose stones lying around at Hampden being convenient for idiots to throw back and forth.

Crumbling old pre war stadia with toilet facilities that consisted of a wall to pee against.

The European authorities were no better. Imagine allowing a European Cup final to be played after many people have clearly died on the terraces before the game. The excuse being the situation would have got worse if they hadn't played. Worse than there being dead people in the stadium? Nothing to do with money or inconvenience to UEFA, of course.

I ignore any dewy eyed reminisces of the good old days of standing on the terraces. If those conditions had continued, access to watching games would have been denied to many who now enjoy going to football.

[Cade]

They had plenty warnings. 

A crush at Hillsborough in 81 resulted in dozens of broken limbs and ribs.

The stadium was not used as an FA cup venue for 6 years.

Then in 87, there were further crushes at two further games.

And in 88 there was a crush during a Liverpool game.

Liverpool even made a formal protest at having to play at the stadium in 89.

 

Hillsborough was a death trap and despite plenty of previous incidents, nothing was done.

 

[Ulysses]

7 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Her husband at the time of the Hillsborough disaster was the Stepfather of Kevin. As much as he loved the laddie, his love was not as deep as that of the mother, therefore he was,not as relentless as her in her and the other families pursuit of truth and justice. Anne herself waned around the 1999 time when Jack Straw wouldn't give the go ahead for new inquests. It needed a complete overhaul and change of focus from  the families to re-ignite her passion and fight, and I think it was just to much for her husband.

 

I understand that, but I'm not sure how it connects to the comment to which I was responding.

 

"She was a determined woman who was devoted to getting the truth, probably to the detriment of her other family members."

 

It could also be said that:

 

"As a stepfather his devotion to getting the truth wasn't as intense as his wife's, probably to the detriment of their marriage."

 

Same facts, but a different read of them.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

I understand that, but I'm not sure how it connects to the comment to which I was responding.

 

"She was a determined woman who was devoted to getting the truth, probably to the detriment of her other family members."

 

It could also be said that:

 

"As a stepfather his devotion to getting the truth wasn't as intense as his wife's, probably to the detriment of their marriage."

 

Same facts, but a different read of them.

Both quotes work for me.

There were in my opinion inferences in the drama, that Anne Williams, became so obsessed(I don't blame her), with obtaining the truth that she did neglect her other two children to a degree. By neglect I don't mean she didn't feed them cloth them etc, but perhaps didn't take the same amount of interest in their lives, as in how her eldest son's job was going, how he was doing with his partner, how her daughter's schoolwork was coming along, how her partner was etc etc.

 

 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Both quotes work for me.

There were in my opinion inferences in the drama, that Anne Williams, became so obsessed(I don't blame her), with obtaining the truth that she did neglect her other two children to a degree. By neglect I don't mean she didn't feed them cloth them etc, but perhaps didn't take the same amount of interest in their lives, as in how her eldest son's job was going, how he was doing with his partner, how her daughter's schoolwork was coming along, how her partner was etc etc.

 

 

 

Anne Williams' quest to get at the truth regarding Kevin's death was almost certainly the central feature of her later life.  She was a single-minded and focused person, as leaders often have to be.  Her son and daughter haven't had that much to say over the years, but I haven't seen anything from them to say that they felt neglected.  From some remarks her daughter made she seems to have been close to her mother and also blames the effects of Hillsborough for contributing to her untimely death.  As for the marriage break-up, unfortunately marital breakdown is more likely to happen following tragic or traumatic events, and that seems to have been the case for the families of those who died at Hillsborough (and indeed others who survived the tragedy).  Some events in life are just far bigger than the people they affect, and this was one of them.

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Anne Williams' quest to get at the truth regarding Kevin's death was almost certainly the central feature of her later life.  She was a single-minded and focused person, as leaders often have to be.  Her son and daughter haven't had that much to say over the years, but I haven't seen anything from them to say that they felt neglected.  From some remarks her daughter made she seems to have been close to her mother and also blames the effects of Hillsborough for contributing to her untimely death.  As for the marriage break-up, unfortunately marital breakdown is more likely to happen following tragic or traumatic events, and that seems to have been the case for the families of those who died at Hillsborough (and indeed others who survived the tragedy).  Some events in life are just far bigger than the people they affect, and this was one of them.

I can't disagree with your last sentence.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

On 03/01/2022 at 13:50, GinRummy said:

Was hard going but very emotive tv. The part where Anne had to pick her son out from Polaroid pictures really highlighted the tragedy and personal devastation. 

 

Good cast in general but Maxine Peake especially, is a fantastic actor. 

A very moving scene and fantastic acting 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

On 07/01/2022 at 22:54, Jack Torrance said:

Started to watch this tonight. I can remember it coming on live at the time, like it was yesterday and this brought it back. Heavy stuff and was very distressing to see at the time.

 

Its something anyone into football should watch and read up about. It changed how football fans were treated, for the better. An absolute tradegy and horrific how it took so long for the truth to come out.

 

I'm two episodes in. Pity they haven't made more of the disgusting behaviour of the tabloids at the time, particularly The Sun. I've never bought a tabloid since. I remember the headlines well.

 

Really well-made drama. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to the rest but I'll be watching it.

 

 

Out of interest what was it the Sun did that was bad?  I’m genuinely interested and don’t know much about it 

thanks 

[Boab]

10 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Out of interest what was it the Sun did that was bad?  I’m genuinely interested and don’t know much about it 

thanks 

Printing headlines of fans urinating and stealing from people lying dead or dying on the terraces, if I remember correctly.

McKenzie of the S*in, should have been jailed IMO. 

[Jack Torrance]

9 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Out of interest what was it the Sun did that was bad?  I’m genuinely interested and don’t know much about it 

thanks 

Their headline story was the main thing but they continued to repeat the claims as fact. Other papers ran similar stories at the time, but none as prominent as The Sun.

 

This has quite a good summary of it...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster_and_The_Sun

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

11 hours ago, Jack Torrance said:

Their headline story was the main thing but they continued to repeat the claims as fact. Other papers ran similar stories at the time, but none as prominent as The Sun.

 

This has quite a good summary of it...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster_and_The_Sun

 

Thanks

 

why are Liverpool people against the sun in the present time? The writers from then are likely to have moved on now …

 

also as a football board, should we not ban any links to any articles from the Sun?