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Souttar signs pre-contract with Rangers (Super Thread)


Bazzas right boot

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2 hours ago, DH1986 said:


No need to hail him……just don’t boo him. Not whilst he’s part of the team anyway.


It’s time we accepted our place in the food chain….Dundee Utd lose out to us and we lose out to Rangers.

 

That isn’t changing anytime soon.

You would be as well supporting a junior team. So we just roll over an accept it like it is?

 

Feck that! Never!

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3 minutes ago, Canscot said:

^^^You really DO get it. Bravo!

Everyone gets it. It’s just that some people are still unhappy about it. It’s not complicated. 

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19 minutes ago, kila said:

 

He could've signed the new 1 year deal before the January window and got his move down south now as he wasn't short of interest. Though he has since cited family reasons so I guess that's it and we'll see how things go for him.

 

Do you want him lining up against Rangers at Ibrox? I actually thought he had a good enough game on Tuesday but can we trust his commitment against his new teammates at their ground and show some real fight for Hearts? Would he take Morelos out like he did Griffiths? I doubt it.

 

 

And would you think any Rangers player would take him out in their penalty box at a corner?  Of course they would!  Chances are half the players will not be there next season anyway such is the turnover in teams these days

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5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

If a player down south wants to sign a pre contract in the last six months of his contract and this rule doesn’t allow it that’s illegal, he’s not agreed to it. 

It needs at least two parties to make a contract. If the clubs decide not to offer pre contacts until after March that’s their choice, there’s no compulsion to do it. 

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Pasquale for King
9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It needs at least two parties to make a contract. If the clubs decide not to offer pre contacts until after March that’s their choice, there’s no compulsion to do it. 

If they want to offer it to get someone ahead of a rival and the players want to sign it it’s illegal to stop them. 

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12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

If they want to offer it to get someone ahead of a rival and the players want to sign it it’s illegal to stop them. 

Is it not more of a gentleman's agreement with EPL clubs. 

The clubs will recognise the potential problems PC in mid season can cause. 

It can work out down there because of the fact that all the clubs have the money to make good offers. 

Up here there is only the OF with any financial muscle so they are unlikely to agree to any gentleman's agreement. 

Mainly because they are not gentlemen and the rest of the club's are like downtrodden serfs. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

If they want to offer it to get someone ahead of a rival and the players want to sign it it’s illegal to stop them. 

The whole six months pre contract limit isn’t mentioned and has never been tested in law afaik. The ECJ stayed, as part of the Bosman ruling,  that players are free to move anywhere at the end of their contracts. As part of their response FIFA set up the six month window prior to contract end where players could be approached by other clubs and sign a pre-contract.
 

Again, there is nothing in statute that prevents ‘normal’ contract workers in other industries agreeing their next contract with a competitor at any point. That’s purely a football regulation. Whether that is a ‘reasonable’ restriction has never been tested in a court, yet. 
 

 

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Pasquale for King
35 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The whole six months pre contract limit isn’t mentioned and has never been tested in law afaik. The ECJ stayed, as part of the Bosman ruling,  that players are free to move anywhere at the end of their contracts. As part of their response FIFA set up the six month window prior to contract end where players could be approached by other clubs and sign a pre-contract.
 

Again, there is nothing in statute that prevents ‘normal’ contract workers in other industries agreeing their next contract with a competitor at any point. That’s purely a football regulation. Whether that is a ‘reasonable’ restriction has never been tested in a court, yet. 
 

 

I put all the details regarding pre contracts earlier in the thread, Steve McManaman was the first major one in  1998. 
It hasn’t been tested in court because only England restrict moves like this, not something any country should copy, but If it was it tested it would fail. 
It’s part of the Bosman ruling, like the Webster ruling where a player can leave 3 years into a 4 year contract. All law no matter what FIFA etc say. 

Edited by Pasquale for King
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Pasquale for King
38 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Is it not more of a gentleman's agreement with EPL clubs. 

The clubs will recognise the potential problems PC in mid season can cause. 

It can work out down there because of the fact that all the clubs have the money to make good offers. 

Up here there is only the OF with any financial muscle so they are unlikely to agree to any gentleman's agreement. 

Mainly because they are not gentlemen and the rest of the club's are like downtrodden serfs. 

 

Yeah it is but it just takes one club to challenge it, it’s all of England not just the EPL. Remember Neilson had to tell Adebayos club we could talk to them. If say the uglies were vying for a player down there, a club might well want to tie them down on a pre contract but couldn’t until April. 
 

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, kila said:

 

He could've signed the new 1 year deal before the January window and got his move down south now as he wasn't short of interest. Though he has since cited family reasons so I guess that's it and we'll see how things go for him.

 

Do you want him lining up against Rangers at Ibrox? I actually thought he had a good enough game on Tuesday but can we trust his commitment against his new teammates at their ground and show some real fight for Hearts? Would he take Morelos out like he did Griffiths? I doubt it.

 

 

 

Yes, players take out their own team-mates in training all the time. Anyhow according to many on here we have adequate back-up anyhow so we could drop him.

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This thread has long legs, looks like it is going to be a record breaker on JKB. 89 pages already, all on the pre contract. Will fly off its tits soon as the next step happens.

The actual move this month or the months ahead.

 

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6 hours ago, DH1986 said:

Players come and go…..Skacel walked out on us without having played a single game on his new contract

 

Attempting to disrespect Rudi should be an instant lifetime ban.

 

Rudi signed a permeant contract with us at the end of his initial loan period purely so we would receive a significant fee for him when he moved to an team in England with dreams of promotion. It is not at all comparable to John Booooottar running down his contract and signing a pre-contract agreement, in the middle of a season, in order to slither off to a direct competitor.

 

hearts-rudi-skacel-r-celebrates-his-goal-during-their-scottish-cup-final-soccer-match-against-gretna-at-hampden-park-in-glasgow-scotland-may-13-2006-reutersdavid-moir-2E8EEYF.jpg

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

You would be as well supporting a junior team. So we just roll over an accept it like it is?

 

Feck that! Never!

 

The alternative is rolling over for Rangers. No idea why people can't see that.

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16 minutes ago, FTH said:

 

Attempting to disrespect Rudi should be an instant lifetime ban.

 

Rudi signed a permeant contract with us at the end of his initial loan period purely so we would receive a significant fee for him when he moved to an team in England with dreams of promotion. It is not at all comparable to John Booooottar running down his contract and signing a pre-contract agreement, in the middle of a season, in order to slither off to a direct competitor.

 

hearts-rudi-skacel-r-celebrates-his-goal-during-their-scottish-cup-final-soccer-match-against-gretna-at-hampden-park-in-glasgow-scotland-may-13-2006-reutersdavid-moir-2E8EEYF.jpg


Well there is nothing like attempting to rewrite history…..


https://www.londonhearts.com/scores///////mrep/20060513362.htm

 

 

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The Wrinkly Ninja
2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The boo-ers seem to be complaining about the people clapping to drown them out. Think it's them who can't handle the criticism.

 

I've never heard of fans telling off other fans for being too "happy clappy" at a game. Most folk do go to enjoy themselves and if clapping is happening it's typically because we are winning or still have a chance of winning a game.

 

Bit fans at Tynecastle regularly get told off by other fans to sit down or calm down when they get up and start berating one of our own players, especially if they di it in a sustained way. That's because they are distracting and annoying others who want to watch the game. Same as when the mini huns in our support start their songs, the rest of the crowd has often responded with boos or drowning them out with a Hearts song. When the plane hirers did their thing, the crowd responded with a show of support for Neilson... 

 

It really is the boo-ers who are crying about not getting their way.

 

 

 

Some football fans booed in a football ground to make their displeasure known and there seems to be repeated attempts to build this up into something that it is not.  It had no impact as expected by the level headed, including our club captain, and this was confirmed after the game by our manager. The armageddon predicted by the naive nostradamus’ on here failed to materialise and no twee revisionism is going to change that, despite efforts.

 

The fallout of the apparent lack by some to tolerate the possibility that other football fans of a different age, background, disposition and more, might have a different opinion and be unhappy, feel hurt, angry, or frustrated, and who refuse to fall in line despite repeatedly being told that they must do so has resulted in attempts to belittle other hearts supporters by calling them children, dummy spitters and the like. As I said in my post I see a certain irony in this. 

 

For my part, I’m sure the club will endure, the players will be fine and JS will be fine. Others on here, we’ll see!

Edited by The Wrinkly Ninja
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25 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The alternative is rolling over for Rangers. No idea why people can't see that.

Yep. Nobody need bother starting on about maximising income again. Which would be a relief in truth

Edited by Riccarton3
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4 hours ago, Do The Dance said:

Couldn't clap John Soutter, but didn't boo either - I'm nearly 40!

 

I don't think we should be playing him though.

 

Surely he didn't actually have to sign a pre-contract with Rangers? Just wrap it all up in the summer. If he gets crocked Rangers can pull out of the deal anyway, no? I didn't think these pre-contracts actually tie anyone to anything?

 

 

That's a really good question given his previous serious long term injury problems.  You'd expect his agent and lawyer to have insisted on some kind of compensation to be written in to his contract should an injury happen before he actually moves.  If there is such a clause in his pre-contract agreement then the Sevco legal people have probably fixed that well below what Hearts would demand for a transfer fee now. 

 

All speculation of course but there's definitely a lot more detail to this move than any of the so called "sports journalists" know or are prepared to find out.  

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

 

 

Some football fans booed in a football ground to make their displeasure known and there seems to be repeated attempts to build this up into something that it is not.  It had no impact as expected by the level headed, including our club captain, and this was confirmed after the game by our manager. The armageddon predicted by the naive nostradamus’ on here failed to materialise and no twee revisionism is going to change that, despite efforts.

 

The fallout of the apparent lack by some to tolerate the possibility that other football fans of a different age, background, disposition and more, might have a different opinion and be unhappy, feel hurt, angry, or frustrated, and who refuse to fall in line despite repeatedly being told that they must do so has resulted in attempts to belittle other hearts supporters by calling them children, dummy spitters and the like. As I said in my post I see a certain irony in this. 

 

For my part, I’m sure the club will endure, the players will be fine and JS will be fine. Others on here, we’ll see!

 

It was the almost 90 mins of booing, obviously. Never heard one of our own players targeted like that in my puff.

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5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It was the almost 90 mins of booing, obviously. Never heard one of our own players targeted like that in my puff.

It will fizzle out. 

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8 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:


Wait, so is it a substantial offer or is it “not quite” £500k yet?

Not a substantial offer if it is even 500k

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kingantti1874
47 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Not a substantial offer if it is even 500k


for £500k I’d drive him to harthill.

 

Use the money to sign someone who wants to be here 

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7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


for £500k I’d drive him to harthill.

 

Use the money to sign someone who wants to be here 

They don't want him just now. Doubt if this is a Giovanni signing anyway 🙄 

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6 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

They don't want him just now. Doubt if this is a Giovanni signing anyway 🙄 

Didn't he say the club needed to keep its Scottish identity by signing Souttar? Bizarre. Think they said that about Hendry when Murray was supposed to be involved in bringing him to Glasgow. 

 

50OK minimum.Scottish internationalist. A substantial fee means a different thing when they relate it to diddy clubs as opposed to the OF. They think that's 200k. No thanks

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Guest ToqueJambo

Still think 500k is a steal and won't really change who we can bring in or compensate for the loss of him in terms of the potential rewards of wining the cup and getting to Europe. We should hold out for 750-1m. They're still getting a better central defender than Celtic recently paid £4m for.

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6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Still think 500k is a steal and won't really change who we can bring in or compensate for the loss of him in terms of the potential rewards of wining the cup and getting to Europe. We should hold out for 750-1m. They're still getting a better central defender than Celtic recently paid £4m for.

It's certainly not in amazing territory or however Neilson expressed it. When you build your finances to avoid having to gift international players to others, you have to see it through. Feck em.

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3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It was the almost 90 mins of booing, obviously. Never heard one of our own players targeted like that in my puff.

Ritchie would of got that but we loaned him out to Bolton or some where. That was the right thing to do because he'd of got it right from the fans at that time.

Edited by mitch41
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1 minute ago, Riccarton3 said:

It's certainly not in amazing territory or however Neilson expressed it. When you build your finances to avoid having to gift international players to others, you have to see it through. Feck em.

 

£500,000 for a player with a few months left on their contract is a good offer. We don't often get bids more than that for players with longer contracts.

 

If they have made an offer of e.g. £100k, and then if we get them to offer 5 times that it would be good, and I'd accept it. 

 

 

Now i's not an amazing offer, or whatever, but it would take pressure off the rest of the squad and allow us some budget to bring in a replacement, whether short term loan and pay a lot of their wages, or pay a modest fee for someone more long-term, just to help try and ensure Europe qualification/cup. 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

£500,000 for a player with a few months left on their contract is a good offer. We don't often get bids more than that for players with longer contracts.

 

If they have made an offer of e.g. £100k, and then if we get them to offer 5 times that it would be good, and I'd accept it. 

 

 

Now i's not an amazing offer, or whatever, but it would take pressure off the rest of the squad and allow us some budget to bring in a replacement, whether short term loan and pay a lot of their wages, or pay a modest fee for someone more long-term, just to help try and ensure Europe qualification/cup. 

 

 

 

 

A few months left. Well, third place apparently provides some Euro money beyond actual Spfl prizemoney. We could win a Cup. The few months left is at the business end

 

I get that the monies could be used but it would be being used to replace something  already there and proven  ( if a defender is targeted) and at not the best window.

 

The exception for me would be only if the monies contributed to bringing a forward but again it tends to be a shit window for purchases

Edited by Riccarton3
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Bazzas right boot

Just get him to ****. 

He's a distraction and dividing the fans. 

 

If he's here until the end of the season it will negatively effect the team. 

 

He's also now  a hun *******. 

Thank you, good bye and **** off. 

 

 

 

Edited by Bazzas right boot
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1 minute ago, Riccarton3 said:

A few months left. Well, third place apparently provides some Euro money beyond actual prizemoney. We could win a Cup. The few months left is at the business end, not some mid table scrap.

 

I get that the monies could be used but it would be being used to replace something  already there and proven and at not the best window.

 

The exception for me would be only if the monies contributed to bringing a forward but again it tends to be a shit window for purchases

 

I suspect we are in talks with potential replacements, but if rangers don't up any offer, then we can't bring them in. 

If Rangers up their offer we will bring in a replacement till at least the end of the season. 

 

If not Souttar will stay and play, and I'm confident he will put in 100% for Hearts. 

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Guest ToqueJambo
46 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

If not Souttar will stay and play, and I'm confident he will put in 100% for Hearts. 

 

This. For all that he's a dick for joining Rangers like this the boy's a massive Scotland fan. If he doesn't want to play for us - debatable as I think he'd be more than happy to play for us for longer if he wasn't a better player than we could afford - he certainly wants to play for Scotland. Playing well for us is right now the only way to pretty much guarantee that he'll be in the play-offs.

 

Every other Scottish CB will be desperate to get into Clarke's thoughts. Halkett and Kingsley among them. Souttar won't do himself any good by letting his standards drop. We could actually do a lot worse than a Souttar, Halkett, Tierney back line for Scotland but for once we have a few options.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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9 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Just get him to ****. 

He's a distraction and dividing the fans. 

 

If he's here until the end of the season it will negatively effect the team. 

 

He's also now  a hun *******. 

Thank you, good bye and **** off. 

 

 

 

Yep, with you on this one. 

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He's here til the end of the season unless Rangers stump up 500k.  That probably won't happen due to the state of their finances.  The boo boys just need to get over it.  

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I think we'll see something happen today. If we play him tomorrow, and we definitely should, then he's cup-tied, and that's an important factor. Even is he goes for a small fee before the end of January he woudn't be able to play against us in the cup. 

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3 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I think we'll see something happen today. If we play him tomorrow, and we definitely should, then he's cup-tied, and that's an important factor. Even is he goes for a small fee before the end of January he woudn't be able to play against us in the cup. 


Stick him in with a couple of minutes to go.

 

😇

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Francis Albert
9 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Just get him to ****. 

He's a distraction and dividing the fans. 

 

If he's here until the end of the season it will negatively effect the team. 

 

He's also now  a hun.

Thank you, good bye and **** off. 

 

 

 

Rinse ... Repeat.

The team did not look distracted against St J. We have played a lot worse. 

As for the fans when was the last time the fans were not divided about something or other?

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12 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:


Wait, so is it a substantial offer or is it “not quite” £500k yet?

 

Sure that post has no more credibility that the random stuff we see here every day?

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9 hours ago, SUTOL said:

 

I suspect we are in talks with potential replacements, but if rangers don't up any offer, then we can't bring them in. 

If Rangers up their offer we will bring in a replacement till at least the end of the season. 

 

If not Souttar will stay and play, and I'm confident he will put in 100% for Hearts. 

 

We saw with the bench on Tuesday that we aren't exactly overrun with players. Hopefully Halks is fine, but we are a couple of injuries/covid call off's away from a problem. Think we need to accept that he's a good player and that he is available for selection. (and a rat, but lets park that for now)

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40 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

He's here til the end of the season unless Rangers stump up 500k.  That probably won't happen due to the state of their finances.  The boo boys just need to get over it.  

This.  It’s make up your mind day for Sevco. If they want him not cup tied then they have to stump up what’s required. I think they are still cash light and won’t be able to do that. So if that’s the case Souttar is here till the end of the season and I’m sure he’ll be the model professional.

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Bazzas right boot
20 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Rinse ... Repeat.

The team did not look distracted against St J. We have played a lot worse. 

As for the fans when was the last time the fans were not divided about something or other?

 

 

He's also a hun ***** now. 

 

Get him tae ****. 

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My thinking is, if Souttar plays tomorrow he’s not leaving until the summer. And if he is left out he’s away this month. If he helps us get 3rd place then so he be it.

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Souttar signing a pre contract did not have to be publicly announced. He could have waited till the end of the season.

 

He has created a distraction and deserves any stick he gets.

 

He should have shown more respect to the club.

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7 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

My thinking is, if Souttar plays tomorrow he’s not leaving until the summer. And if he is left out he’s away this month. If he helps us get 3rd place then so he be it.

Thats the way i see it,still think he will go this month.

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