Should Scotland be an independent country?

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Feck sake man, I'm at work Have a wee bit patience and I'll gammonsplain it all to you tonight

Just making sure you didn’t slink off explaining how bad this micro managing of your life really is.
Looking forward to it tbh pal😊
 

[jambomjm74]

6 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Lots of opinion & hypothesis presented as fact there JJ

Granted.. the £15 toll price might be a bit of a guesstimate 

[The Mighty Thor]

28 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

So independence… what would that really mean.  
Fairness, nae torries and making our own decisions… is that really what we’d get ?? Would it really be independence or actually just a messier more expensive version of what we have now. 

We would have to use the British pound for a number of years and so be held under the control of the Bank of Englands monetary policy until we create a new currency which would ultimately be tied to U.K. our biggest market  (see below) 
We share the same island (that’s why we are British not because we have mair goons up here)

To get goods into European:world markets we would transit the majority of goods through England.. we could double up our delays, a sort of supersized Brexit - at Carlisle and Dover.. cost £s and tonnes of extra forms to do the same things. Ultimately losing trade. 
Our infrastructure, army - electricity etc “the utilities” are mainly U.K. owned and any unwind would be incredibly costly and take many years .. in fact we’d probably find it sensible to share in the end. The big promise to the CND mob wouldn’t happened we’d keep those Nukes at Faslane as NATO would tell us too or we’d be out on our arse.
We’d have split families and friends across the U.K. Can I go and see granny yep but it’s a four hour wait at Carlisle and remember the £15 at the toll.. I’ll no bother then …

Most of the companies are cross U.K. but majority of business sits with U.K. registration. c 90% population and customers. .. decisions that may favour Scottish locations would change to U.K. this is an ongoing London / Edinburgh battle currently. Key jobs likely to move to England. Add higher tax for senior or high paid high worth its an easy decision. Also who would want paid in a non U.K. £ Sterling.. the rush south would surprise people up here. 

We currently have trade of c. 62% exports and 67% imports with the U.K.   just a “small” reliance on the U.K.. 

If we had independence, we’d have our own parliament .. (don’t we have that on a devolved basis already) but geographical and economically and socially be ruled by our relationship with the rest of the U.K. the larger party. 
We’d still all use English as our main language.. 

Does anyone else see a few minor flaws here also a real risk that independence would be a false dawn and the reality wouldn’t be independence just a continued more expensive status quo. 
ohh no that’s all just fear.. no it isn’t it’s just the costs and what would be a Sudo-independence at best.  

We’d see the reworking of the walls the Romans first built. Funnily enough the Romans built these to keep the Scots out…. 

 

Do you still live with your parents?

 

I'm only asking as they probably owned the house you lived in, paid all the bills, owned all the furniture, the cups & plates, knives and forks etc, you owned none of it. 

 

If you did move out to live on your own, however did you manage?

 

Did you feel it was an expensive status quo?

[jambomjm74]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Do you still live with your parents?

 

I'm only asking as they probably owned the house you lived in, paid all the bills, owned all the furniture, the cups & plates, knives and forks etc, you owned none of it. 

 

If you did move out to live on your own, however did you manage?

 

Did you feel it was an expensive status quo?

What a response.. sorry but you always just insult people you don’t agree with ?

Im laughing at your update.. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

56 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

So independence… what would that really mean.  
Fairness, nae torries and making our own decisions… is that really what we’d get ?? Would it really be independence or actually just a messier more expensive version of what we have now. 

We would have to use the British pound for a number of years and so be held under the control of the Bank of Englands monetary policy until we create a new currency which would ultimately be tied to U.K. our biggest market  (see below) 
We share the same island (that’s why we are British not because we have mair goons up here)

To get goods into European:world markets we would transit the majority of goods through England.. we could double up our delays, a sort of supersized Brexit - at Carlisle and Dover.. cost £s and tonnes of extra forms to do the same things. Ultimately losing trade. 
Our infrastructure, army - electricity etc “the utilities” are mainly U.K. owned and any unwind would be incredibly costly and take many years .. in fact we’d probably find it sensible to share in the end. The big promise to the CND mob wouldn’t happened we’d keep those Nukes at Faslane as NATO would tell us too or we’d be out on our arse.
We’d have split families and friends across the U.K. Can I go and see granny yep but it’s a four hour wait at Carlisle and remember the £15 at the toll.. I’ll no bother then …

Most of the companies are cross U.K. but majority of business sits with U.K. registration. c 90% population and customers. .. decisions that may favour Scottish locations would change to U.K. this is an ongoing London / Edinburgh battle currently. Key jobs likely to move to England. Add higher tax for senior or high paid high worth its an easy decision. Also who would want paid in a non U.K. £ Sterling.. the rush south would surprise people up here. 

We currently have trade of c. 62% exports and 67% imports with the U.K.   just a “small” reliance on the U.K.. 

If we had independence, we’d have our own parliament .. (don’t we have that on a devolved basis already) but geographical and economically and socially be ruled by our relationship with the rest of the U.K. the larger party. 
We’d still all use English as our main language.. 

Does anyone else see a few minor flaws here also a real risk that independence would be a false dawn and the reality wouldn’t be independence just a continued more expensive status quo. 
ohh no that’s all just fear.. no it isn’t it’s just the costs and what would be a Sudo-independence at best.  

We’d see the reworking of the walls the Romans first built. Funnily enough the Romans built these to keep the Scots out…. 

 

Good posting. 

[The Mighty Thor]

17 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

What a response.. sorry but you always just insult people you don’t agree with ?

Im laughing at your update.. 

I haven't insulted you at all.

 

I asked you what i think is a reasonable question which is relevant to your post.

 

Do you still live with your parents?

 

Because everything you listed as being the disaster awaiting Scotland trying to 'go it alone' is precisely what you would have faced if you left your parents home to live on your own. 

 

You own nothing, you probably can barely afford it, you get every benefit by being at home, what logical reason would you have to leave the nest?

 

But yet every single year millions leave home, buy a house, find out that it isn't that hard after all, gain their 'independence' and then go on to be fully functioning members of society. 

 

Weird isn't it? 

[jambomjm74]

22 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I haven't insulted you at all.

 

I asked you what i think is a reasonable question which is relevant to your post.

 

Do you still live with your parents?

 

Because everything you listed as being the disaster awaiting Scotland trying to 'go it alone' is precisely what you would have faced if you left your parents home to live on your own. 

 

You own nothing, you probably can barely afford it, you get every benefit by being at home, what logical reason would you have to leave the nest?

 

But yet every single year millions leave home, buy a house, find out that it isn't that hard after all, gain their 'independence' and then go on to be fully functioning members of society. 

 

Weird isn't it? 

You are surely intelligent enough to to see your comments as insulting.. come on.. 
The comparison with leaving home and leaving a Union is limited.. it does have an unfortunate accuracy. 
Leaving home today from a house with limited bills and safety (parents likely to be home owners and have a pension and look after us) to renting whilst saving to buy something, maybe in 10 years and knowing you will never have it as good as you had it and never ever be as wealthy as your parents… I can the see the links now

only thing is that leaving the Union wouldn’t see us going back to the bank of mum and dad or relying on an inheritance (the oil money was spent years ago) to sort us out … we’d be on our own with a worse future to look forwards too. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, jambomjm74 said:

So independence… what would that really mean.  
Fairness, nae torries and making our own decisions… is that really what we’d get ?? Would it really be independence or actually just a messier more expensive version of what we have now. 

We would have to use the British pound for a number of years and so be held under the control of the Bank of Englands monetary policy until we create a new currency which would ultimately be tied to U.K. our biggest market  (see below) 
We share the same island (that’s why we are British not because we have mair goons up here)

To get goods into European:world markets we would transit the majority of goods through England.. we could double up our delays, a sort of supersized Brexit - at Carlisle and Dover.. cost £s and tonnes of extra forms to do the same things. Ultimately losing trade. 
Our infrastructure, army - electricity etc “the utilities” are mainly U.K. owned and any unwind would be incredibly costly and take many years .. in fact we’d probably find it sensible to share in the end. The big promise to the CND mob wouldn’t happened we’d keep those Nukes at Faslane as NATO would tell us too or we’d be out on our arse.
We’d have split families and friends across the U.K. Can I go and see granny yep but it’s a four hour wait at Carlisle and remember the £15 at the toll.. I’ll no bother then …

Most of the companies are cross U.K. but majority of business sits with U.K. registration. c 90% population and customers. .. decisions that may favour Scottish locations would change to U.K. this is an ongoing London / Edinburgh battle currently. Key jobs likely to move to England. Add higher tax for senior or high paid high worth its an easy decision. Also who would want paid in a non U.K. £ Sterling.. the rush south would surprise people up here. 

We currently have trade of c. 62% exports and 67% imports with the U.K.   just a “small” reliance on the U.K.. 

If we had independence, we’d have our own parliament .. (don’t we have that on a devolved basis already) but geographical and economically and socially be ruled by our relationship with the rest of the U.K. the larger party. 
We’d still all use English as our main language.. 

Does anyone else see a few minor flaws here also a real risk that independence would be a false dawn and the reality wouldn’t be independence just a continued more expensive status quo. 
ohh no that’s all just fear.. no it isn’t it’s just the costs and what would be a Sudo-independence at best.  

We’d see the reworking of the walls the Romans first built. Funnily enough the Romans built these to keep the Scots out…. 

 

These types of posts make we want independence even more! The Romans built a wall to keep the "Picts" out!

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

we’d be on our own with a worse future to look forwards too. 

 

Across Scotland many thousands face their power bill outstripping their income next year.

 

[jambomjm74]

5 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

These types of posts make we want independence even more! The Romans built a wall to keep the "Picts" out!

That part was a joke. Don’t be so selectively sensitive. 
So it’s ok to say f the English f west monster  .. but not to expect a response. 
Nationalism creates more nationalism 

[Unknown user]

Just now, jambomjm74 said:

That part was a joke. Don’t be so selectively sensitive. 
So it’s ok to say f the English f west monster  .. but not to expect a response. 
Nationalism creates more nationalism 

 

Where are you seeing this?

[jambomjm74]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Across Scotland many thousands face their power bill outstripping their income next year.

 

This will happen throughout the world .. independence wouldn’t solve that one…  the strength of our economy would help stave some of this off. 

Not trying to underplay this. 

[periodictabledancer]

3 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

You are surely intelligent enough to to see your comments as insulting.. come on.. 
The comparison with leaving home and leaving a Union is limited.. it does have an unfortunate accuracy. 
Leaving home today from a house with limited bills and safety (parents likely to be home owners and have a pension and look after us) to renting whilst saving to buy something, maybe in 10 years and knowing you will never have it as good as you had it and never ever be as wealthy as your parents… I can the see the links now

only thing is that leaving the Union wouldn’t see us going back to the bank of mum and dad or relying on an inheritance (the oil money was spent years ago) to sort us out … we’d be on our own with a worse future to look forwards too. 

Posts like this are utterly depressing.

Looking in from a distance it's sad to see the lack of vision and the level of acceptance from some parts of the population.

The UK economy was in serious even before the Ukraine war and its underlying cause  - brexit. - is a serious handbrake on growth and a significant cause of inflation and weakening of the economy. This is the future. It's not going to change. 

 

Scotland has a chance to change that but apparently every opportunity and challenge will be a sure fire disaster so it's better to be  inextricably linked to a failing economy no matter what. Imagine,  thinking that's the best that (some) Scots want. It's like listening to prisoners who've become institutionalised.

 

[jambomjm74]

Just now, periodictabledancer said:

Posts like this are utterly depressing.

Looking in from a distance it's sad to see the lack of vision and the level of acceptance from some parts of the population.

The UK economy was in serious even before the Ukraine war and its underlying cause  - brexit. - is a serious handbrake on growth and a significant cause of inflation and weakening of the economy. This is the future. It's not going to change. 

 

Scotland has a chance to change that but apparently every opportunity and challenge will be a sure fire disaster so it's better to be  inextricably linked to a failing economy no matter what. Imagine,  thinking that's the best that (some) Scots want. It's like listening to prisoners who've become institutionalised.

 

Lack of vision or just an uncomfortable truth,
Independence but with economic reliance on the U.K. isn’t really independence it’s just more barriers and fewer opportunities for Scotland and it’s people. 
Best “most” Scots want 55 is greater than 45. Wanted to correct you. 
As for being a prisoner, get a grip that’s just a ridiculous comparison.. to think people who don’t agree with you are somehow institutionalised.. they aren’t they want a fairer better society and want Scotland to be its very best. 

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

You are surely intelligent enough to to see your comments as insulting.. come on.. 
The comparison with leaving home and leaving a Union is limited.. it does have an unfortunate accuracy. 
Leaving home today from a house with limited bills and safety (parents likely to be home owners and have a pension and look after us) to renting whilst saving to buy something, maybe in 10 years and knowing you will never have it as good as you had it and never ever be as wealthy as your parents… I can the see the links now

only thing is that leaving the Union wouldn’t see us going back to the bank of mum and dad or relying on an inheritance (the oil money was spent years ago) to sort us out … we’d be on our own with a worse future to look forwards too. 

And yet millions of young people still fly the nest every year.

 

I wonder why? Is it because they want to make their own choices, make their own mistakes? Perhaps they don't want to live your life, your way. Who is to say that they're wrong?

 

Why would Scotland need to go back to the bank of mum and dad? Mum and Dad's lavish lifestyle and continual living beyond their means to keep up with the international jones' will need to be paid for by them. 

 

You're probably across the news and reading that the citizens of Scotland, a country with an abundance of natural resources, are about to be paying over £4,000 per annum for energy. Thanks to the mis-management of successive governments of mum and dad. 

 

From where i'm sitting right now a considerably worse future is about to materialise in the form of cosplay Thatcher who is about as economically literate as a five year old. 

 

[jambomjm74]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

And yet millions of young people still fly the nest every year.

 

I wonder why? Is it because they want to make their own choices, make their own mistakes? Perhaps they don't want to live your life, your way. Who is to say that they're wrong?

 

Why would Scotland need to go back to the bank of mum and dad? Mum and Dad's lavish lifestyle and continual living beyond their means to keep up with the international jones' will need to be paid for by them. 

 

You're probably across the news and reading that the citizens of Scotland, a country with an abundance of natural resources, are about to be paying over £4,000 per annum for energy. Thanks to the mis-management of successive governments of mum and dad. 

 

From where i'm sitting right now a considerably worse future is about to materialise in the form of cosplay Thatcher who is about as economically literate as a five year old. 

 

You seem to have limited interpretation skills… the cost of living crisis and fuel isn’t WestMInster or Holyroods fault .. unless you live in some nationalist bubble that is. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, jambomjm74 said:

They want a fairer better society and want Scotland to be its very best. 

How do you think that will happen? The next Tory PM already plans to ignore the democratically elected First Minister of Scotland.  

 

You are aware of the fascistic direction of travel of the current ENP/UKIP hybrid that is stinking out Westminster?

 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

You seem to have limited interpretation skills… the cost of living crisis and fuel isn’t WestMInster or Holyroods fault .. unless you live in some nationalist bubble that is. 

Now that is being directly insulting. 

 

Oh it is very much in the gift of the current government to address the current CoL crisis. In fact most of the contributory factors to it derive directly from their policies and decisions they continue to take or in the case of the caretaker, not take. 

 

They're not applying logic, they're applying political dogma.

[jambomjm74]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

How do you think that will happen? The next Tory PM already plans to ignore the democratically elected First Minister of Scotland.  

 

You are aware of the fascistic direction of travel of the current ENP/UKIP hybrid that is stinking out Westminster?

 

ENP doesn’t exist. it may do in your mind but it’s not a party at west Minster. 
Certainly the torries got into power on the back of the referendum .. funnily enough so did the SNP. It’s funny how nationalism breeds nationalism and one side is always right and the others always wrong. 
We could well see a Labour govt. which we can agree would be a good thing. 
But we’ve digressed from uncomfortable truths and into the standard nationalist response.. blame west Minster … hate the torries .. both of these wouldn’t help the peoples of Scotland (much)

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Have PM'd @jack D and coke. Up to him if he shares it with you

[jack D and coke]

Seen people suggesting a while ago that we can make a difference at uk level….
Seems not…

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, jambomjm74 said:

ENP doesn’t exist. it may do in your mind but it’s not a party at west Minster. 
Certainly the torries got into power on the back of the referendum .. funnily enough so did the SNP. It’s funny how nationalism breeds nationalism and one side is always right and the others always wrong. 
We could well see a Labour govt. which we can agree would be a good thing. 
But we’ve digressed from uncomfortable truths and into the standard nationalist response.. blame west Minster … hate the torries .. both of these wouldn’t help the peoples of Scotland (much)

 

 

The current Conservative and Unionist Party subsumed the UKIP voters and indeed a large number of members post Brexit and the rise within that of English nationalism/exceptionalism is there under your nose.

 

The SNP was in power before the referendum. Scots had already rejected the branch office parties by that point.

 

I think a Labour government under Keith would be very much Tory lite. He's got no desire to reverse the structural carnage the Tories have subjected the UK (outside of London) to. 

 

The uncomfortable truth is what we have is not working and in fact is detrimental to Scotland and her people.

 

You're clearly irrationally terrified as to what could lie ahead under independence and then we're back to my analogy of you being in your mum's back bedroom at 40 like Ronnie Corbett in 'Sorry' 

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Seen people suggesting a while ago that we can make a difference at uk level….
Seems not…

 

 

I saw that. Rayner trying to guilt trip us  now. Here’s the general election results since 1945. What Scotland votes for does not matter if England does not vote the same. It doesn’t change the result. 
 

Scotland and England have different values, that much is pretty clear. About time the cord was severed so we can engage each other as equals instead of this subservient relationship where one partner dictates how things are rather than any sort of cooperation. 

[jambomjm74]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The current Conservative and Unionist Party subsumed the UKIP voters and indeed a large number of members post Brexit and the rise within that of English nationalism/exceptionalism is there under your nose.

 

The SNP was in power before the referendum. Scots had already rejected the branch office parties by that point.

 

I think a Labour government under Keith would be very much Tory lite. He's got no desire to reverse the structural carnage the Tories have subjected the UK (outside of London) to. 

 

The uncomfortable truth is what we have is not working and in fact is detrimental to Scotland and her people.

 

You're clearly irrationally terrified as to what could lie ahead under independence and then we're back to my analogy of you being in your mum's back bedroom at 40 like Ronnie Corbett in 'Sorry' 

Some Scots had rejected, not the majority, at best it’s 50:50, at the last big game it was 55 : 45. 
Tory lite .. we are back to the red torries stuff .. more bull sh. Sorry but that really is just bollox. All parties end up kind of centralised, it’s the way politics work look at the SNP and failure to tax more progressively.. they have failed with council tax reforms as it was 1) a vote loser and 2)costly and difficult to do … are the SNP Tory lite nationalists (possibly less so without Cherry but Blackford ain’t no poor wee crofter)

im not terrified, I’m in a good place, I’m just very realistic about Nationalism and it’s limitations… 

I also understand the social and economic problems Scotland has.. these are complex and due to many reasons. 

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I saw that. Rayner trying to guilt trip us  now. Here’s the general election results since 1945. What Scotland votes for does not matter if England does not vote the same. It doesn’t change the result. 
 

Scotland and England have different values, that much is pretty clear. About time the cord was severed so we can engage each other as equals instead of this subservient relationship where one partner dictates how things are rather than any sort of cooperation. 

Yeah it’s simply numbers.
We don’t have the numbers to make any difference. 

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

Some Scots had rejected, not the majority, at best it’s 50:50, at the last big game it was 55 : 45. 
Tory lite .. we are back to the red torries stuff .. more bull sh. Sorry but that really is just bollox. All parties end up kind of centralised, it’s the way politics work look at the SNP and failure to tax more progressively.. they have failed with council tax reforms as it was 1) a vote loser and 2)costly and difficult to do … are the SNP Tory lite nationalists (possibly less so without Cherry but Blackford ain’t no poor wee crofter)

im not terrified, I’m in a good place, I’m just very realistic about Nationalism and it’s limitations… 

I also understand the social and economic problems Scotland has.. these are complex and due to many reasons. 

Scots have roundly rejected the branch office parties at every election in the last decade, local, national, westminster. Every election.

 

You need to remember that if Holyrood was elected FPTP then there would be literally a handful of other MSP's. That's fairly conclusive. 

 

Tax policy is only one lever of the fiscal picture. There is a limit to what the SNP can do with income tax.

 

I'm glad you're not terrified of Independence. There's no reason to be.

 

Me? I'm very worried at what the winter will bring to the people of this country. The socio economic issues facing Scots are about to get much worse and the people who can make the changes on energy and CoL won't do it down to political ideology. They'd rather you freeze or starve than sacrifice their sponsors profits or their exchequer's tax take.

 

That's unconscionable in 2022.  

[Pasquale for King]

19 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I saw that. Rayner trying to guilt trip us  now. Here’s the general election results since 1945. What Scotland votes for does not matter if England does not vote the same. It doesn’t change the result. 
 

Scotland and England have different values, that much is pretty clear. About time the cord was severed so we can engage each other as equals instead of this subservient relationship where one partner dictates how things are rather than any sort of cooperation. 

It just shows how out of touch and ill informed they are about Scotland. 

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah it’s simply numbers.
We don’t have the numbers to make any difference. 

Yup. It’s not our job to save England from itself. IMO sturgeon never should have tried to stop Brexit. It should have been a cold, ‘this is a material change in circumstances, we’re having another vote’. No debate; no hard/soft Brexit involvement. Squarely, this is Englands choice, not Scotland’s. 

[jambomjm74]

39 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Scots have roundly rejected the branch office parties at every election in the last decade, local, national, westminster. Every election.

 

You need to remember that if Holyrood was elected FPTP then there would be literally a handful of other MSP's. That's fairly conclusive. 

 

Tax policy is only one lever of the fiscal picture. There is a limit to what the SNP can do with income tax.

 

I'm glad you're not terrified of Independence. There's no reason to be.

 

Me? I'm very worried at what the winter will bring to the people of this country. The socio economic issues facing Scots are about to get much worse and the people who can make the changes on energy and CoL won't do it down to political ideology. They'd rather you freeze or starve than sacrifice their sponsors profits or their exchequer's tax take.

 

That's unconscionable in 2022.  

Branch office parties .. more insulting rubbish from you. Do you ever look at what you type and think “I sound like an arse” you probably should. 

Scottish elections are meant to be about running Scotland, with a mix of party views and shouldn’t be about nationalism.. this doesn’t serve the people of Scotland well (ferry’s worsening education increasing attainment gap etc etc)
I’ve spelt out the realities of this sudo-independence, whilst I’m not terrified… it’s clear this wouldnt benefit Scotland and that’s why it was rejected by Scotland. 
So Tory politicians wake up each day wanting the poor people to freeze and or starve.. that’s again a load of garbage and again fits with my please read what you write narrative. I don’t believe that of any political party.. you mustn’t know or have dealt with many politicians to write such a poisonous thing. 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

Branch office parties .. more insulting rubbish from you. Do you ever look at what you type and think “I sound like an arse” you probably should. 

Scottish elections are meant to be about running Scotland, with a mix of party views and shouldn’t be about nationalism.. this doesn’t serve the people of Scotland well (ferry’s worsening education increasing attainment gap etc etc)
I’ve spelt out the realities of this sudo-independence, whilst I’m not terrified… it’s clear this wouldnt benefit Scotland and that’s why it was rejected by Scotland. 
So Tory politicians wake up each day wanting the poor people to freeze and or starve.. that’s again a load of garbage and again fits with my please read what you write narrative. I don’t believe that of any political party.. you mustn’t know or have dealt with many politicians to write such a poisonous thing. 

Thanks for the life coaching/insults. That's two goes you've had and both times you've made yourself look a bit silly and petty. 

 

Scottish elections are about running Scotland. That's why scots overwhelmingly returned a Scottish party with Scotland's interest at it's core. Not a London based party following the ideology and doctrine of the westminster party, hence the branch office. 

 

I believe, and the empirical evidence is building, that the current Tory party couldn't give a shiny shite whether you starve or freeze. If you are unable to feed or heat yourself then it'll be your fault for not working hard enough. That, my good man, is Tory party ideology in a nutshell. 

 

I'm not sure if you're being willfully ignorant or just ignorant but I'm sensing that you've got no concept of what is about to happen to not only poor people in the next few months. 

 

How about you do a bit of thinking, you've obviously got access to the internet, look up guys like Richard Murphy, Professor Danny Blanchflower, Martin Lewis and then read what Sunak and Truss are saying. you'll approach things a bit better informed and you'll see where the poison is. 

[jambomjm74]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Thanks for the life coaching/insults. That's two goes you've had and both times you've made yourself look a bit silly and petty. 

 

Scottish elections are about running Scotland. That's why scots overwhelmingly returned a Scottish party with Scotland's interest at it's core. Not a London based party following the ideology and doctrine of the westminster party, hence the branch office. 

 

I believe, and the empirical evidence is building, that the current Tory party couldn't give a shiny shite whether you starve or freeze. If you are unable to feed or heat yourself then it'll be your fault for not working hard enough. That, my good man, is Tory party ideology in a nutshell. 

 

I'm not sure if you're being willfully ignorant or just ignorant but I'm sensing that you've got no concept of what is about to happen to not only poor people in the next few months. 

 

How about you do a bit of thinking, you've obviously got access to the internet, look up guys like Richard Murphy, Professor Danny Blanchflower, Martin Lewis and then read what Sunak and Truss are saying. you'll approach things a bit better informed and you'll see where the poison is. 

Again you get upset at an insult and yet your post(s) are full of insults.. it’s strange that you don’t see how insulting you are, I do and was very mild in my response ..

I see where the poison is in your posts, I also believe it’s driven from a desire for fairness from you but that it’s a false narrative and the cold reality of Indy wouldn’t deliver. 
Your senses are very very wrong, the economic realities are indeed very scary .. but the idea that a referendum would help in any way is absurd. These problems are now, right now.. you think a local govt with extra powers would solve this right now ..  that a divisive and costly referendum (time and money) leaving the U.K. and Europe would help here.. wow that’s amazing … you just can’t see why these steps and costs wouldn’t be attractive to Scots.. come on you have to see the other sides point of view.. it’s not all bad one and good the other 

[OTT]

32 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

Branch office parties .. more insulting rubbish from you. Do you ever look at what you type and think “I sound like an arse” you probably should. 

Scottish elections are meant to be about running Scotland, with a mix of party views and shouldn’t be about nationalism.. this doesn’t serve the people of Scotland well (ferry’s worsening education increasing attainment gap etc etc)
I’ve spelt out the realities of this sudo-independence, whilst I’m not terrified… it’s clear this wouldnt benefit Scotland and that’s why it was rejected by Scotland. 
So Tory politicians wake up each day wanting the poor people to freeze and or starve.. that’s again a load of garbage and again fits with my please read what you write narrative. I don’t believe that of any political party.. you mustn’t know or have dealt with many politicians to write such a poisonous thing. 

Branch office is how Joanne Lamont ex-Scottish Labour leader described it. They have very narrow tramlines to follow in terms of policy from the main party, so they are in reality a branch office. It’s maybe not a great description but it’s accurate. 

[manaliveits105]

4 hours ago, jambomjm74 said:

So independence… what would that really mean.  
Fairness, nae torries and making our own decisions… is that really what we’d get ?? Would it really be independence or actually just a messier more expensive version of what we have now. 

We would have to use the British pound for a number of years and so be held under the control of the Bank of Englands monetary policy until we create a new currency which would ultimately be tied to U.K. our biggest market  (see below) 
We share the same island (that’s why we are British not because we have mair goons up here)

To get goods into European:world markets we would transit the majority of goods through England.. we could double up our delays, a sort of supersized Brexit - at Carlisle and Dover.. cost £s and tonnes of extra forms to do the same things. Ultimately losing trade. 
Our infrastructure, army - electricity etc “the utilities” are mainly U.K. owned and any unwind would be incredibly costly and take many years .. in fact we’d probably find it sensible to share in the end. The big promise to the CND mob wouldn’t happened we’d keep those Nukes at Faslane as NATO would tell us too or we’d be out on our arse.
We’d have split families and friends across the U.K. Can I go and see granny yep but it’s a four hour wait at Carlisle and remember the £15 at the toll.. I’ll no bother then …

Most of the companies are cross U.K. but majority of business sits with U.K. registration. c 90% population and customers. .. decisions that may favour Scottish locations would change to U.K. this is an ongoing London / Edinburgh battle currently. Key jobs likely to move to England. Add higher tax for senior or high paid high worth its an easy decision. Also who would want paid in a non U.K. £ Sterling.. the rush south would surprise people up here. 

We currently have trade of c. 62% exports and 67% imports with the U.K.   just a “small” reliance on the U.K.. 

If we had independence, we’d have our own parliament .. (don’t we have that on a devolved basis already) but geographical and economically and socially be ruled by our relationship with the rest of the U.K. the larger party. 
We’d still all use English as our main language.. 

Does anyone else see a few minor flaws here also a real risk that independence would be a false dawn and the reality wouldn’t be independence just a continued more expensive status quo. 
ohh no that’s all just fear.. no it isn’t it’s just the costs and what would be a Sudo-independence at best.  

We’d see the reworking of the walls the Romans first built. Funnily enough the Romans built these to keep the Scots out…. 

 

Great post but you will be insulted and called a troll - they don’t like it up em and will circle the wagons to protect their heroine 

(judge me on education Murrell)

[jambomjm74]

11 minutes ago, OTT said:

Branch office is how Joanne Lamont ex-Scottish Labour leader described it. They have very narrow tramlines to follow in terms of policy from the main party, so they are in reality a branch office. It’s maybe not a great description but it’s accurate. 

They are Scottish parties but with a U.K. head, I get that.. which is the framework we voted for through devolution and then to keep at referendum. From me Thor’s posts he doesn’t believe that ScottishMPs of all parties focus is on Scotland.
I get that someone in the Labour Party leaving wouldn’t be happy, used the phrase to blame others, who would be happy after the swing away from them.. they once had a monopoly and could do as they please, Teflon coated .. much like the SNP now. 
Mr Thor was just using it at an insult, a bit like some poor press headline..

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great post but you will be insulted and called a troll - they don’t like it up em and will circle the wagons to protect their heroine 

(judge me on education Murrell)

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Konrad von Carstein

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great post but you will be insulted and called a troll - they don’t like it up em and will circle the wagons to protect their heroine 

(judge me on education Murrell)

Move along Volodya . 

[manaliveits105]

[Roxy Hearts]

4 hours ago, jambomjm74 said:

That part was a joke. Don’t be so selectively sensitive. 
So it’s ok to say f the English f west monster  .. but not to expect a response. 
Nationalism creates more nationalism 

I have English family and friends so don't know what you mean. Unionist and hard of thinking Scots can do one though!

[JudyJudyJudy]

Dearie me Will Labour ever learn 

 

Angela Rayner claims Scots are being failed by SNP and Tories on cost of living (msn.com)

[OTT]

🇬🇧 ✅😍

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

🇬🇧 ✅😍

 

[Jeffros Furios]

6 minutes ago, OTT said:

🇬🇧 ✅😍

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

12 minutes ago, OTT said:

🇬🇧 ✅😍

 

All jokes aside, look at that rise. Fk me

[The Mighty Thor]

Luckily the Tories got in or we'd really have been in the shit

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

47 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Luckily the Tories got in or we'd really have been in the shit

 

 

Well I would have voted Labour if my local mp wasn’t Joanna cherry 🍒 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

🇬🇧 ✅😍

 

 

People are going to die.

[OTT]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

People are going to die.

Yup. Most likely the elderly who voted in their droves to protect the union. Some gratitude eh? 

[manaliveits105]

Back on topic 

Scotland’s poorest teenagers ‘betrayed’ by Nicola Sturgeon as exam pass rates plummet

‘Badge of shame’ for First Minister as ‘chasm’ widens between the most disadvantaged and the wealthiest

 

6 years ago she promised to close the gap = FAILED 

smurf off 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

Yup. Most likely the elderly who voted in their droves to protect the union. Some gratitude eh? 

 

Plus the unemployed, whose income will soon be outstripped by their leccy bills.

[OTT]

Good to see the former Labour leader backing democracy.