Should Scotland be an independent country?

[ri Alban]

The sooner we get away from ruk the better. Let them destroy themselves.

[Boris]

The Union would be quite safe if the powers that be radically democratised the political institutions.

 

But that isn't going to happen, so for me, independence offers the opportunity for better democracy.

 

Ironic that those most pro-union (the Conservatives) seem most he'll bent on destroying it by their deeds and actions.

 

It has never been more apparent that any notion of a union of equals is complete and utter cobblers. Ever was it thus so.

[Shooter McGavin]

The last couple of Tory governments, and also Brexit, have really swayed me towards independence to be honest. Although I’m still fairly skeptical.

 

The United Kingdom is all good in theory, but I think we’re in a different time now, and I feel like we’re just far too different from the English electorate.

 

I’m sure many others, like myself, have followed the most recent saga in Westminster and thought

 

“Wtf are we doing associating ourselves with these clowns?”

[SectionDJambo]

I would imagine that the current UK government are doing more to encourage the electorate in Scotland to think positively of independence than the SNP.

It really wouldn’t surprise me if most of the Tory elite would be quite happy for it to happen. It would cement their reputation with the English Nationalists and make it very difficult for any other party or coalition to oust them from power in England. They didn’t think much about the damage Brexit would cause to ordinary people in England, so it’s hard to see why they would worry about being separated from Scotland.

What we, in Scotland, need from the SNP is a coherent, definitive and achievable plan of how we could prosper as an independent nation.
Not dreams, just facts that can be scrutinised and debated.

[Roxy Hearts]

13 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I would imagine that the current UK government are doing more to encourage the electorate in Scotland to think positively of independence than the SNP.

It really wouldn’t surprise me if most of the Tory elite would be quite happy for it to happen. It would cement their reputation with the English Nationalists and make it very difficult for any other party or coalition to oust them from power in England. They didn’t think much about the damage Brexit would cause to ordinary people in England, so it’s hard to see why they would worry about being separated from Scotland.

What we, in Scotland, need from the SNP is a coherent, definitive and achievable plan of how we could prosper as an independent nation.
Not dreams, just facts that can be scrutinised and debated.

We'll be fine. It's propaganda and indifference we're up against!

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

We'll be fine. It's propaganda and indifference we're up against!

 

It's normal to fear the unknown, but when the known is so terrible it becomes an easier choice.

[SectionDJambo]

8 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

It's normal to fear the unknown, but when the known is so terrible it becomes an easier choice.

That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm probably not alone.

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

I would imagine that the current UK government are doing more to encourage the electorate in Scotland to think positively of independence than the SNP.

It really wouldn’t surprise me if most of the Tory elite would be quite happy for it to happen. It would cement their reputation with the English Nationalists and make it very difficult for any other party or coalition to oust them from power in England. They didn’t think much about the damage Brexit would cause to ordinary people in England, so it’s hard to see why they would worry about being separated from Scotland.

What we, in Scotland, need from the SNP is a coherent, definitive and achievable plan of how we could prosper as an independent nation.
Not dreams, just facts that can be scrutinised and debated.

Very good posting actually.  In particular the last couple sentences. 

[Space Mackerel]

On 29/01/2022 at 01:14, jack D and coke said:

She owns 12 miles of the sea bed off the coast of these islands. 
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything more ****ing outrageous and a more deserving reason of dragging them out into the street and executed than that. 
**** the royal family. 
 

Some Hearts fan took their wee laddie, approx 6-8 years old to Auchinleck game the other day and draped a Union Fleg round him on National TV.

 

I think we should all chip in for a Saxa Coburg Gotha celebration Patnium jubilee plate for them. 
 

Crowd funded? 

[Space Mackerel]

Scotch Yoons supporting Fat Doris while his inner circle collapses is quite funny. 
 

Hark at Rishi who layed them £200 though for 12 months leccy.  😁😁😁

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Some Hearts fan took their wee laddie, approx 6-8 years old to Auchinleck game the other day and draped a Union Fleg round him on National TV.

 

I think we should all chip in for a Saxa Coburg Gotha celebration Patnium jubilee plate for them. 
 

Crowd funded? 

I was once one of those dumb dumbs. You just have to hope one day the wee laddie will turn oot like his uncle jack D☺️ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I was once one of those dumb dumbs. You just have to hope one day the wee laddie will turn oot like his uncle jack D☺️ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

i used to sing the fruity songs back then when I was a daft wee laddie in the Shed.

 

Then I got educated about, well all sorts including life. 

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

i used to sing the fruity songs back then when I was a daft wee laddie in the Shed.

 

Then I got educated about, well all sorts including life. 

Nowt wrong with a wee fruity song now and again I can’t kid on I’m an angel when Timothy rock up☺️🕺🏼

Edited February 4, 2022 by jack D and coke

[ri Alban]

On 31/01/2022 at 23:36, SectionDJambo said:

I would imagine that the current UK government are doing more to encourage the electorate in Scotland to think positively of independence than the SNP.

It really wouldn’t surprise me if most of the Tory elite would be quite happy for it to happen. It would cement their reputation with the English Nationalists and make it very difficult for any other party or coalition to oust them from power in England. They didn’t think much about the damage Brexit would cause to ordinary people in England, so it’s hard to see why they would worry about being separated from Scotland.

What we, in Scotland, need from the SNP is a coherent, definitive and achievable plan of how we could prosper as an independent nation.
Not dreams, just facts that can be scrutinised and debated.

Its an independence referendum. The SNP are not on the paper.

[SectionDJambo]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Its an independence referendum. The SNP are not on the paper.

But surely the SNP are the current party who are trying to convince us to break away from the UK. They would have to show us all how it would succeed and we could prosper. They have to be the ones to deliver sound plans based on economic reasoning, state pensions, currency, possible joining of the EU, and much more. I realise that the SNP wouldn’t be the only political party in Scotland after independence, but it’s they that are pushing for it now. 

The other parties aren’t going to provide a case for an independent Scotland. It’s not enough to just say we wouldn’t be governed by the Westminster Tories anymore. 
The SNP will never have a better opportunity to convince the majority that we are better away from the UK, such is the discontent with Johnson and his gang. If they can’t convince us now, they maybe never will.

[Unknown user]

 

5 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

But surely the SNP are the current party who are trying to convince us to break away from the UK. They would have to show us all how it would succeed and we could prosper. They have to be the ones to deliver sound plans based on economic reasoning, state pensions, currency, possible joining of the EU, and much more. I realise that the SNP wouldn’t be the only political party in Scotland after independence, but it’s they that are pushing for it now. 

The other parties aren’t going to provide a case for an independent Scotland. It’s not enough to just say we wouldn’t be governed by the Westminster Tories anymore. 
The SNP will never have a better opportunity to convince the majority that we are better away from the UK, such is the discontent with Johnson and his gang. If they can’t convince us now, they maybe never will.

 

Have you ever demanded Westminster show how the UK will succeed and prosper?

 

The UK runs a massive deficit, not a whisper. But we demand Scotland balance the books in advance or we're staying with a government that couldn't give a **** about us.

 

What actually needs to happen is the people of Scotland manning the **** up and taking control of our future instead of these flaccid Eton w@nkers.

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

 

Have you ever demanded Westminster show how the UK will succeed and prosper?

 

The UK runs a massive deficit, not a whisper. But we demand Scotland balance the books in advance or we're staying with a government that couldn't give a **** about us.

 

What actually needs to happen is the people of Scotland manning the **** up and taking control of our future instead of these flaccid Eton w@nkers.

But we need to be convinced that we will be better off away from the UK. I don’t doubt that we can be, and I’m as fed up as anyone about the WM shambles, but we need a show, from those in a position to argue successfully for it, that they know what they’re talking about and are comfortable being questioned on it.

Otherwise we could end up with a similar result to Brexit where the important arguments got overwhelmed by a determined group of politicians who just said anything to get their desired result. 
Why would anyone confidently arguing for independence be reluctant to convince us, with facts, not rhetoric as happened with the Brexit referendum.

[jack D and coke]

26 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

But we need to be convinced that we will be better off away from the UK. I don’t doubt that we can be, and I’m as fed up as anyone about the WM shambles, but we need a show, from those in a position to argue successfully for it, that they know what they’re talking about and are comfortable being questioned on it.

Otherwise we could end up with a similar result to Brexit where the important arguments got overwhelmed by a determined group of politicians who just said anything to get their desired result. 
Why would anyone confidently arguing for independence be reluctant to convince us, with facts, not rhetoric as happened with the Brexit referendum.

They play on your doubts.  Sell me joining this union now? You only need ask yourself one or two questions imo. 
Do you think/hope we can do better? Do you want ruled perpetually by these eton educated entitled pricks that will never have most of our interests at heart. Look at that Tory cabinet ffs it’s utterly vile. Vultures nothing more. A man richer than the queen manoeuvring himself like some little rodent into position to take over from this Eton mess. 
I feel for most of England tbh that they have no escape at all. They get red or blue tories, the north in their exasperation at Labour actually voted against their own interests, that’s all being in this system is now. Swinging back and forward in a system voting for whoever the media tell you to, that suits them. 
Vote No again and the exit will be completely bricked up too. 
There will be no escape after a second No. Then we’d be as well just accepting we’re like yorkshire or something, just a region. 
If people decide they want that then im

honestly ok with it I’m not and never will be hell bent on it but this will more than likely be the last chance. 
I think England fears us going because we’d likely get rid of shite like royal families and lords and the good people of England would maybe say hey we want a piece of this and all these plummy entitled ***** down there are finished. 
I do agree though that the SNP almost seem to be obstacle these days. No vision or plan to convince people who probably like yourself just need nudged a bit. 
It’s fear of the future imo, so many things seem mental these days. I can understand it I suppose. 
 

[jack D and coke]

[Roxy Hearts]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I couldn't stand him when he played for England but I like his commentating and that comment 🤣. Honest and refreshing. 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

But we need to be convinced that we will be better off away from the UK. I don’t doubt that we can be, and I’m as fed up as anyone about the WM shambles, but we need a show, from those in a position to argue successfully for it, that they know what they’re talking about and are comfortable being questioned on it.

Otherwise we could end up with a similar result to Brexit where the important arguments got overwhelmed by a determined group of politicians who just said anything to get their desired result. 
Why would anyone confidently arguing for independence be reluctant to convince us, with facts, not rhetoric as happened with the Brexit referendum.

 

We'll have a democratic voice and a government that gives a **** about Scotland. How is that not better off?

 

You're after facts that don't exist, it's ridiculous to set a standard you'd never dream of demanding from the status quo.

 

We have a modern first world economy, of course we can deal with stuff as well as anyone else but the details of the future are utterly impossible to predict.

[manaliveits105]

In other words not got a feckin clue like the SG 

[jack D and coke]

[joondalupjambo]

The frustration for many die hard Nationalists, ones that have been there since Wendy Wood or shortly after is that the current SNP leaders are not pushing hard enough.  The SNP claim to be pro independent.  If that is truly the case then they should be at every opportunity telling the nation why we should be independent, all the reasons and benefits of being independent, they should be front and centre at every rally, pushing the agenda night and day.  If they do not then why call themselves an independence party.

 

My fear is that many current SNP MP's and MSP's see their role as a job, a cosy career and one that they are happy to to have for as long as they can hold onto it.  We need change, people are crying out for it but they need leadership.  The SNP currently have a huge opportunity to get independence of over the line but they need to attack. They need to start the arguements, keep them going and persuade people over a two year period, starting now.  If they wait they will fail yet again.

 

I saw the Free by 93 Campaign as potentially the one but here we are nearly 30 years later still waiting.  The leadership needs to raise their game, flush out the ones who are on a jolly and give it their best shot.  The 44% figure will hit 54% easily if the party adopt the right tactics.  Stop being scared.  Stop the fence sitting.  Move forward on the manifesto the country put you into power to achieve.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

41 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

The frustration for many die hard Nationalists, ones that have been there since Wendy Wood or shortly after is that the current SNP leaders are not pushing hard enough.  The SNP claim to be pro independent.  If that is truly the case then they should be at every opportunity telling the nation why we should be independent, all the reasons and benefits of being independent, they should be front and centre at every rally, pushing the agenda night and day.  If they do not then why call themselves an independence party.

 

My fear is that many current SNP MP's and MSP's see their role as a job, a cosy career and one that they are happy to to have for as long as they can hold onto it.  We need change, people are crying out for it but they need leadership.  The SNP currently have a huge opportunity to get independence of over the line but they need to attack. They need to start the arguements, keep them going and persuade people over a two year period, starting now.  If they wait they will fail yet again.

 

I saw the Free by 93 Campaign as potentially the one but here we are nearly 30 years later still waiting.  The leadership needs to raise their game, flush out the ones who are on a jolly and give it their best shot.  The 44% figure will hit 54% easily if the party adopt the right tactics.  Stop being scared.  Stop the fence sitting.  Move forward on the manifesto the country put you into power to achieve.

 

 

I’m no die hard nationalist, I’m a proud Scot and I think we can do it…but you’re post is absolutely bang on mate imo. 
The current SNP are going to cost us. 

 

[Space Mackerel]

On 05/02/2022 at 18:56, jack D and coke said:

I’m no die hard nationalist, I’m a proud Scot and I think we can do it…but you’re post is absolutely bang on mate imo. 
The current SNP are going to cost us. 

 

 The current SNP have got us over 50%, something Alex Salmond never did. Chill, it’s happening. 😊

[martoon]

YES.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by martoon

[manaliveits105]

[JudyJudyJudy]

42 minutes ago, windsor1874 said:

The real peoblem I have with the SNP is their view on whether having gained independence, we could vote to rejoin the UK at some point in the future. Kate Forbes says no.

 

You can't argue for a new referendum on the basis that views change/democracy is not a singular moment in time, and then at the same time say we can't democratically vote to go back. Total hypocrisy.

 

Thats a good point really but the line has to stop somewhere surely? It could then become a never ending cycle of leaving the UK and re-joining. But if its fine to do it with the EU why not this?  

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, windsor1874 said:

The real peoblem I have with the SNP is their view on whether having gained independence, we could vote to rejoin the UK at some point in the future. Kate Forbes says no.

 

You can't argue for a new referendum on the basis that views change/democracy is not a singular moment in time, and then at the same time say we can't democratically vote to go back. Total hypocrisy.

 

 

If a party is elected on a manifesto point of rejoining the Union, then another referendum should be held to do so.

(assuming the Union would be happy for us to rejoin)

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, windsor1874 said:

The real peoblem I have with the SNP is their view on whether having gained independence, we could vote to rejoin the UK at some point in the future. Kate Forbes says no.

 

You can't argue for a new referendum on the basis that views change/democracy is not a singular moment in time, and then at the same time say we can't democratically vote to go back. Total hypocrisy.

 

Sell me being independent and handing over your entire sovereignty again? I understand your point and if a party gained the necessary numbers im not sure how you could deny it….but no country on this planet has done what your suggesting. 
I believe we have enough cult members who’d like us to never have any say whatsoever in our own affairs but if we leave do the English/rUK welcome us back too? You’d imagine they’d have to throw that open to the people to vote on? Imagine selling that to them too? These whiny sweaty sock cadgers want to rejoin - because what other reason would there be to rejoin unless it was we wanted their money? Under what circumstances would you envisage us asking to get back? It would be the ultimate embarrassment. You never know just how pathetic we are I suppose but I’d very much doubt it would happen tbh. 
It’s not like joining the EU imo. 
Unless you believe Ireland isn’t independent from say Italy or Spain for example. The EU wouldn’t put nuclear weapons in your waters without your say so etc. 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by jack D and coke

[NANOJAMBO]

4 hours ago, windsor1874 said:

The real peoblem I have with the SNP is their view on whether having gained independence, we could vote to rejoin the UK at some point in the future. Kate Forbes says no.

 

You can't argue for a new referendum on the basis that views change/democracy is not a singular moment in time, and then at the same time say we can't democratically vote to go back. Total hypocrisy.

 

What Kate Forbes says on the matter is irrelevant. She can't bind the future wishes of the electorate to that idea, that's not how any parliament works anywhere in the world. 

In any case, there is no reason to suppose the SNP would be in power post indy but some people (not directed at you) have a real problem with that idea , as though indy would mean SNP in perpetuity and it's used as another scare tactic by unionists and some on here. 

 

[jack D and coke]

https://www.agcc.co.uk/news-article/six-new-oil-and-gas-fields-to-be-fired-up-as-sunak-takes-action
Is it ever gawny stoap running oot?!! 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

5 hours ago, windsor1874 said:

The real peoblem I have with the SNP is their view on whether having gained independence, we could vote to rejoin the UK at some point in the future. Kate Forbes says no.

 

You can't argue for a new referendum on the basis that views change/democracy is not a singular moment in time, and then at the same time say we can't democratically vote to go back. Total hypocrisy.

 

The problem I have is people spouting nonsense like this.

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, windsor1874 said:

I don't envisage any circumstance that we would, as I think Scotland would be successful independently.

 

Just that i think it's wrong for the snp to say it couldn't be done.

They can’t. It’s that simple. The SNP get right on my jimmys I’ll be honest. 
If some party campaigns on it and it gets the necessary votes then it has to be an option. I don’t envisage any way possible for rUK to want us back either should we leave at any point though. 

[Ray Gin]

12 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

They can’t. It’s that simple. The SNP get right on my jimmys I’ll be honest. 
If some party campaigns on it and it gets the necessary votes then it has to be an option. I don’t envisage any way possible for rUK to want us back either should we leave at any point though. 

 

They'd love to get their grubby mitts back on Scotland's natural resources.

 

[jack D and coke]

33 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

They'd love to get their grubby mitts back on Scotland's natural resources.

 

The ones that are aw running oot??😀😂

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, windsor1874 said:

Thanks. Very insightful and well argued.

Obviously, you would stand to get elected, with a manifesto of being controlled by London, again. Whether you would be successful, in an independent Scotland, is very doubtful.

[Space Mackerel]

Imagine being 16 plus and being too thick to take control of your own destiny and life. 

[JackLadd]

Another freebie from the dear leader which is coming right from the revenues raised by her sg so it ....ISNT.  

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Another freebie from the dear leader which is coming right from the revenues raised by her sg so it ....ISNT.  

 Revenues are from the SG now readers.

 

😁😁😁

[Unknown user]

On 08/02/2022 at 08:16, windsor1874 said:

The real peoblem I have with the SNP is their view on whether having gained independence, we could vote to rejoin the UK at some point in the future. Kate Forbes says no.

 

You can't argue for a new referendum on the basis that views change/democracy is not a singular moment in time, and then at the same time say we can't democratically vote to go back. Total hypocrisy.

 

 

Then your problem with the SNP is pretty miniscule, practically irrelevant really. Because that's an absolute nothing, and it's not up to them anyway so it doesn't matter.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

For those wanting Scotland to become independent, would it not be like emigrating without moving house? 

As why should anyone vote for a fantasy new country that they were not born into in the first place? 

If Scotland wants independence from the 3 other countries of the Union why do they then want to become united with the European Union and have less of a presence? 

They want independence to become united again, yes or no? 

 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

For those wanting Scotland to become independent, would it not be like emigrating without moving house? 

As why should anyone vote for a fantasy new country that they were not born into in the first place? 

If Scotland wants independence from the 3 other countries of the Union why do they then want to become united with the European Union and have less of a presence? 

They want independence to become united again, yes or no? 

 

 

Aye well done, you've defeated the nationalist movement with your nifty footwork.

 

That's me hanging up my sporran now, cheers guys

 

[/Thread]

ffs

 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

For those wanting Scotland to become independent, would it not be like emigrating without moving house? 

As why should anyone vote for a fantasy new country that they were not born into in the first place? 

If Scotland wants independence from the 3 other countries of the Union why do they then want to become united with the European Union and have less of a presence? 

They want independence to become united again, yes or no? 

 

Independence isn't like emigrating : it's taking control & ownership of your own "house". 

Scotland isn't a "new country". There are plenty of voices eg from Englsh migrants into Sctland - who support independence. 

Scotland would have a voice and a vote in the EU.

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Aye well done, you've defeated the nationalist movement with your nifty footwork.

 

That's me hanging up my sporran now, cheers guys

 

[/Thread]

ffs

 

It's hard work. 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

33 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Independence isn't like emigrating : it's taking control & ownership of your own "house". 

Scotland isn't a "new country". There are plenty of voices eg from Englsh migrants into Sctland - who support independence. 

Scotland would have a voice and a vote in the EU.

But Scotland hasn't been independent since 1707, I don't get the independence then uniting again with the EU, that's not independence is it? 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

But Scotland hasn't been independent since 1707, I don't get the independence then uniting again with the EU, that's not independence is it? 

Only if you don't understand how the EU works .

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, The Maroon Pound said:

For those wanting Scotland to become independent, would it not be like emigrating without moving house? 

As why should anyone vote for a fantasy new country that they were not born into in the first place? 

If Scotland wants independence from the 3 other countries of the Union why do they then want to become united with the European Union and have less of a presence? 

They want independence to become united again, yes or no? 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tick Tock!!!

[ri Alban]

The UK is only 100 years old.