Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Dazo]

5 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

You raise an interesting point,  would it go both ways? People who vote no get none of the benefits of Scotland being able to take full advantage of its relatively well educated population, established industries, huge potential to drive the green energy revolution, fantastic geographical location etc?

 

I’d be up for that if it was the added benefits an independent Scotland created. I would happily miss out on those. 

[Sarah O]

For every person voting no there's 2 voting yes in this poll. 

 

Strange for such a staunch club wuf tradishun. Cannae follow hertz wifoot a uj ken. 

 

Think I'll bow out of this thread before I get a warning. 

 

 

 

[HartleyLegend3]

Yes, 

 

I have faith in our kids. They would turn Scotland in to a successful, prosperous, vibrant country to join the rest of the world. 

 

 

Not this unchangeable, elitist, evil shitehole called the UK.. 

[indianajones]

15 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Yes, 

 

I have faith in our kids. They would turn Scotland in to a successful, prosperous, vibrant country to join the rest of the world. 

 

 

Not this unchangeable, elitist, evil shitehole called the UK.. 

 

Some statement imo. 

 

I am probably for independence but putting faith in the youth of today seems a big ask when you look at them.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Some statement imo. 

 

I am probably for independence but putting faith in the youth of today seems a big ask when you look at them.

 

What's the alternative though? Putting your faith in Jacob Rees-Mogg's kids!

[indianajones]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

What's the alternative though? Putting your faith in Jacob Rees-Mogg's kids!

 

Yeah exactly. No thank you!

 

There will be some real leaders out there no doubt.

[HartleyLegend3]

1 hour ago, indianajones said:

 

Yeah exactly. No thank you!

 

There will be some real leaders out there no doubt.

That's the point I was making. You look at the house of Lords, its full of generations British elite. 

 

If we remain part of the UK. Our grandkids and their grandkids will continue to be ruled over by same families. The whole political set up is designed so the elite stay the elite 

 

The economy is f-ed thanks to mismanagement, Brexit, covid yet these leaches still rake in billions whilst looking after friends and family. 

 

Nothing will ever change. 

[dougal]

13 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

You raise an interesting point,  would it go both ways? People who vote no get none of the benefits of Scotland being able to take full advantage of its relatively well educated population, established industries, huge potential to drive the green energy revolution, fantastic geographical location etc?

 

I suppose if those voting no didn't have to pay income tax, council tax or VAT then they could look at that, but until they do they're probably going to be able to do all the stuff yes voters get. But for instance if an independent Scotland came into lots of money and decided to reduce the income tax, then the yes voters could be the ones to benefit from this.

[NANOJAMBO]

19 hours ago, dougal said:

 

See if I didn't live in Scotland I'd probably say yeah go for independence, wouldn't really affect me if it happened.  But I'm of the belief that it would be a disaster financially for us. We already pay more tax up here and I could only see that increasing if we became independent.

 

Maybe if we have another independence referendum we should make it a public vote. If the country votes to become independent and it turns out that we don't have enough money and have to drastically increase taxes then the people who voted for independence should be the ones who are taxed more. 😉 

I'd have  thought by now yoons would've  stopped going on about higher taxes for a failed economic model.😉

 

The yoons have kept Scotland shackled to Tory rule and  seen the biggest tax raises since (insert date of choice).

Meanwhile the NIC hike to raise £11 billion for the NHS (LOL, as if) will be wiped out by tax cuts needed to win the next election.

 

Great stuff. 

 

 

[Ked]

10 hours ago, Sarah O said:

For every person voting no there's 2 voting yes in this poll. 

 

Strange for such a staunch club wuf tradishun. Cannae follow hertz wifoot a uj ken. 

 

Think I'll bow out of this thread before I get a warning. 

 

 

 

Maybe those who prefer to remain feel more inclined to not express their views given some of the tag teamed responses.

 

[Alex Kintner]

17 minutes ago, Ked said:

Maybe those who prefer to remain feel more inclined to not express their views given some of the tag teamed responses.

 

It’s an anonymous poll.

[Ked]

16 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

It’s an anonymous poll.

Granted but on here and other social media platforms it's a theme and I notice it.

It's one of the things that I've found uncomfortable about the debate in general.

 

[Ked]

On 03/12/2021 at 00:30, NANOJAMBO said:

Not really bothered, just fed up with his chat.

I thought he and the rest of them might stay on the SNP bash-off while the rest of us could have an adult conversation.

No doubt he'll be back with a witty retort and a gif of some description soon. 

The irony

[Ked]

3 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I'd have  thought by now yoons would've  stopped going on about higher taxes for a failed economic model.😉

 

The yoons have kept Scotland shackled to Tory rule and  seen the biggest tax raises since (insert date of choice).

Meanwhile the NIC hike to raise £11 billion for the NHS (LOL, as if) will be wiped out by tax cuts needed to win the next election.

 

Great stuff. 

 

 

For context

[Ked]

Would love an independent Scotland just to shut the jingoistic braveheart types the fek up.

It's a total beamer and promotes the self loathe they're forever spouting pish about

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, Ked said:

Granted but on here and other social media platforms it's a theme and I notice it.

It's one of the things that I've found uncomfortable about the debate in general.

 

Still don’t get how that impacts the result of an anonymous poll🤷🏻‍♂️

[Ked]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Still don’t get how that impacts the result of an anonymous poll🤷🏻‍♂️

Alex .

Given the performance of the snp independence has long gone.

 

Genuinely for the psyche of Scotland I want it.

But your poll proves only that internet nationalists are more prominent than real life ones.

And that anyone who posts questioningly of the snp or the case for independence is usually rounded on .

There really is an immaturity about Scottish politics that you would have hoped given our history as a nation might not have happened.

Anytime I listen to radio Scotland and our parliaments ministers it's always a whatabout England etc.

 

Should Scotland be an independent country?

My answer was I dont know .

Its awfully trumpesque in its simplicity and failure to accept responsibility imo.

 

[Unknown user]

59 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

It’s an anonymous poll.

 

yeah, but...

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Ked said:

Granted but on here and other social media platforms it's a theme and I notice it.

It's one of the things that I've found uncomfortable about the debate in general.

 

 

Yeah, but it's an anonymous poll.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

Alex .

Given the performance of the snp independence has long gone.

 

Genuinely for the psyche of Scotland I want it.

But your poll proves only that internet nationalists are more prominent than real life ones.

And that anyone who posts questioningly of the snp or the case for independence is usually rounded on .

There really is an immaturity about Scottish politics that you would have hoped given our history as a nation might not have happened.

Anytime I listen to radio Scotland and our parliaments ministers it's always a whatabout England etc.

 

Should Scotland be an independent country?

My answer was I dont know .

Its awfully trumpesque in its simplicity and failure to accept responsibility imo.

 

 

In the run up to the 2014 referendum, a certain member of the JKB management team ran occasional polls on the referendum question.  They all showed very definite Yes majorities - I can't recall the specific numbers, but they were 2-1 Yes or perhaps even more, and with big numbers voting.  At the same time, a number of polls were run on hibs.net, and they showed more or less the same pattern.

 

The City of Edinburgh voted No by a margin of 61-39.  Taken together, the four Lothian local authority areas voted No by a margin of 59-41.

 

Why did that discrepancy happen?  Because the websites weren't statistically representative of the supporters generally?  Possible, but a bit unlikely - the numbers on JKB are simply too big for that kind of margin of error.  Or because football supporters weren't statistically representative of people in the region generally?  Now that's a possibility.

[Ulysses]

Here's a link to the final JKB poll run a little over a week ahead of the 2014 referendum.

 

 

732 people voted in all.  Some 11% polled as undecided, unable to vote or intended not to vote.  The other 89 or so percent broke more or less 2 to 1 in favour of Yes.  What was interesting at the time was that the poll showed a strong trend of undecided people moving to the Yes camp during the closing weeks of the campaign, which was in line with a similar national trend.

 

[Sarah O]

10 hours ago, Ked said:

Maybe those who prefer to remain feel more inclined to not express their views given some of the tag teamed responses.

 

I've never seen a YES Scotland banner or flag at Tynie...

[Alex Kintner]

10 hours ago, Ked said:

Alex .

Given the performance of the snp independence has long gone.

 

Genuinely for the psyche of Scotland I want it.

But your poll proves only that internet nationalists are more prominent than real life ones.

And that anyone who posts questioningly of the snp or the case for independence is usually rounded on .

There really is an immaturity about Scottish politics that you would have hoped given our history as a nation might not have happened.

Anytime I listen to radio Scotland and our parliaments ministers it's always a whatabout England etc.

 

Should Scotland be an independent country?

My answer was I dont know .

Its awfully trumpesque in its simplicity and failure to accept responsibility imo.

 

I get all that. What I don’t get is why alleged “double-teaming” would stop someone voting on an anonymous poll like you claimed?

[Alex Kintner]

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

In the run up to the 2014 referendum, a certain member of the JKB management team ran occasional polls on the referendum question.  They all showed very definite Yes majorities - I can't recall the specific numbers, but they were 2-1 Yes or perhaps even more, and with big numbers voting.  At the same time, a number of polls were run on hibs.net, and they showed more or less the same pattern.

 

The City of Edinburgh voted No by a margin of 61-39.  Taken together, the four Lothian local authority areas voted No by a margin of 59-41.

 

Why did that discrepancy happen?  Because the websites weren't statistically representative of the supporters generally?  Possible, but a bit unlikely - the numbers on JKB are simply too big for that kind of margin of error.  Or because football supporters weren't statistically representative of people in the region generally?  Now that's a possibility.

Really interesting post Uly. I think you’ve hit nail on the head with your final comment. 

[JackLadd]

Just don't dare peek under the bonnet when buying nice little runner iScotland from the snp because you'll get the fright of your wee radge life.

[JudyJudyJudy]

The only poll that matters is the next Indy poll. These silly polls on this are just a snapshot. People will think very carefully about how they vote in the real one and did so last time around. It wont be any different at the next vote. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, JackLadd said:

Just don't dare peek under the bonnet when buying nice little runner iScotland from the snp because you'll get the fright of your wee radge life.

 

Why should Scotland not be independent?

Edited December 6, 2021 by Smithee

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The only poll that matters is the next Indy poll. These silly polls on this are just a snapshot. People will think very carefully about how they vote in the real one and did so last time around. It wont be any different at the next vote. 

 

Well of course, but what makes this poll silly?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Well of course, but what makes this poll silly?

Cause its easy to say a flippant response to it. Might as well ask on this " do you prefer porridge to Weetabix" etc. Like i said in the real world people will think very carefully about how they vote as it has severe repercussions .  No such repercussions but just placing your mouse over a yes or no on this. However i am surprised at the overwhelming majority support for yes but apparently as it was similar at Indy 1 and look what happened then? There are a lot of silent no's out there. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Cause its easy to say a flippant response to it. Might as well ask on this " do you prefer porridge to Weetabix" etc. Like i said in the real world people will think very carefully about how they vote as it has severe repercussions .  No such repercussions but just placing your mouse over a yes or no on this. However i am surprised at the overwhelming majority support for yes but apparently as it was similar at Indy 1 and look what happened then? There are a lot of silent no's out there. 

 

That's a rubbish point James, if you're claiming people put a lot of careful thought into their position, you can't claim they don't when asked about it.

 

People may well change their opinion, and it may well be that this forum isn't representative of the population, but that smacks of belittling what you don't fancy.

[Unknown user]

Btw @JamesM48 this is while you're talking about negative language and how sneaky it is on another thread!

[JackLadd]

28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Why should Scotland not be independent?

 

Same reason you shouldn't drink spoiled milk or salt water. Likely too cause considerable personal pain and discomfort. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Same reason you shouldn't drink spoiled milk or salt water. Likely too cause considerable personal pain and discomfort. 

 

Compared to being governed by Westminster? 

Nah.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Btw @JamesM48 this is while you're talking about negative language and how sneaky it is on another thread!

No it was negative outlooks that some have not negative language i was talking about 

[JudyJudyJudy]

31 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's a rubbish point James, if you're claiming people put a lot of careful thought into their position, you can't claim they don't when asked about it.

 

People may well change their opinion, and it may well be that this forum isn't representative of the population, but that smacks of belittling what you don't fancy.

NO i am saying its easy to answer in literally a second . But when we have to answer it at Indy 2 then we need to really think of the consequences of our vote. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

No it was negative outlooks that some have not negative language i was talking about 

My apologies, were you using positive interpretive dance to get your outlook over and I only caught the negative words?

 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

NO i am saying its easy to answer in literally a second . But when we have to answer it at Indy 2 then we need to really think of the consequences of our vote. 

 

Obviously. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

My apologies, were you using positive interpretive dance to get your outlook over and I only caught the negative words?

 

 

[JackLadd]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Compared to being governed by Westminster? 

Nah.

 

 

 

We are actually governed by the snp, very badly albeit. 6% gdp deficit in 2007 to 20% of gdp in 2020 propped up by the block grant. Scotland deserves better than the lousy liar snp.

Edited December 6, 2021 by JackLadd

[Dazo]

34 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Compared to being governed by Westminster? 

Nah.

 

 

What about all the successful people during various uk governments? Why shoukd they want or even vote for independence ? 

[i8hibsh]

On 02/12/2021 at 18:19, Pasquale for King said:

Amazing what you have lying about 😆

 

An STV poll eh - that will be that then.

[i8hibsh]

One thing is for sure that if we do gain 'independence' the SNP would soon find out the true meaning of the word "free" that they so much love to throw around.

Edited December 6, 2021 by i8hibsh

[i8hibsh]

Every ****ing day I am reading or hearing about another SNP demand for something free.  How much out of touch from understanding the value of money can you possibly be.  Last week it was demanding that Sky show the Scotland play off game for free.  Not actually giving a shit about how unfair it is for those that pay Sky subscriptions anyway.  People piggy backing those that pay for a free ride is fair to these inept clowns.

 

They just simply so not understand that nothing is free in this world - someone somewhere foots the bill.  They still use the term 'free prescriptions', 'free baby baskets', 'free education' and 'free healthcare'  - ****ing imbeciles.

 

Free this, free that - just **** right off.

[Ked]

Ok it's an anonymous poll.

I faked up there.

The discrepancies in this poll and the ones Uly cited though?

As compared to the result and other polling.

 

 

Can it be just football fans ?

That doesnt seem right.

[Ked]

4 hours ago, Sarah O said:

I've never seen a YES Scotland banner or flag at Tynie...

Fair point.

But I have seen plenty YES sticker stalls which at the time I thought a tad unwise.

 

[Savage Vince]

53 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

One thing is for sure that if we do gain 'independence' the SNP would soon find out the true meaning of the word "free" that they so much love to throw around.

 

If we gain independence then please feel free to **** off somewhere else and annoy the **** out of those unfortunate souls. 😊

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

If we gain independence then please feel free to **** off somewhere else and annoy the **** out of those unfortunate souls. 😊

 

How tolerant.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

What about all the successful people during various uk governments? Why shoukd they want or even vote for independence ? 

 

Because the continued suppression of Scotland's democratic will is a disgrace, and they're better placed than anyone to put the greater good first.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

Every ****ing day I am reading or hearing about another SNP demand for something free.  How much out of touch from understanding the value of money can you possibly be.  Last week it was demanding that Sky show the Scotland play off game for free.  Not actually giving a shit about how unfair it is for those that pay Sky subscriptions anyway.  People piggy backing those that pay for a free ride is fair to these inept clowns.

 

They just simply so not understand that nothing is free in this world - someone somewhere foots the bill.  They still use the term 'free prescriptions', 'free baby baskets', 'free education' and 'free healthcare'  - ****ing imbeciles.

 

Free this, free that - just **** right off.

 

This thread's about independence, there's a separate one for gobshites to rant about the SNP.

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

This thread's about independence, there's a separate one for gobshites to rant about the SNP.

 

 

You don't think fiscal reality is worth discussing as part of 'independence'?

 

I find your attitude very worrying.