The Royal Scots

[broxburnjambo]

Today is a sad day for everyone involved with The Royal Scots ( The Royal Regiment). 1 Scots the battalion formed from The Royal Scots and The kings own Scottish borderers will today become The New Ranger regiment under a shake up off defence. 

 

As an ex Royal Scot this is so sad to see 2 Scottish Regiments history further diluted.  

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/scottish-troops-to-lead-formation-armys-elite-new-ranger-regiment/

[redjambo]

Indeed. And an obligatory shout-out to my grandfather who fought with the Royal Scots at Passchendaele and Vimy Ridge during WW1.

 

It is inevitable that army reorganisation will happen over time, but sad all the same to see the name disappear. For those interested in learning a wee bit about the Royal Scots: https://www.theroyalscots.co.uk/

Edited November 30, 2021 by redjambo

[Jambo-Jimbo]

One of my Great Grandfather's was in the 4th Battalion Royal Scots, serving in Egypt & Palestine in 1917, was compulsory tranferred to the Royal Engineers in January 1918 and seen the rest of the war out on the Western Front in France, working in the railway division.

 

Another one was in the 3rd Battalion Royal Scots from 1903 to 1907, inbetween spells in the cavalry, first in India in the 1890's with the 19th Hussars and then in Mespotamia with the 14th Hussars during WWI.

[John Findlay]

As an ex serviceman who had an uncle in the Royal Scots in WW2, yes very sad day indeed.

[3fingersreid]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

Indeed. And an obligatory shout-out to my grandfather who fought with the Royal Scots at Passchendaele and Vimy Ridge during WW1.

 

It is inevitable that army reorganisation will happen over time, but sad all the same to see the name disappear. For those interested in learning a wee bit about the Royal Scots: https://www.theroyalscots.co.uk/

He’d have served  alongside my grandad 

 

My grandad wasn’t happy when my dad and one of his brothers joined the Scots Guards and his other brother joined the Royal Navy in WW2 rather than going to the Royal Scots 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, broxburnjambo said:

Today is a sad day for everyone involved with The Royal Scots ( The Royal Regiment). 1 Scots the battalion formed from The Royal Scots and The kings own Scottish borderers will today become The New Ranger regiment under a shake up off defence. 

 

As an ex Royal Scot this is so sad to see 2 Scottish Regiments history further diluted.  

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/scottish-troops-to-lead-formation-armys-elite-new-ranger-regiment/

Another of our great regiments gone. I can't hate Westminster any more but they find new ways for me to do so! Scottishness getting eroded enough. Calling it "Ranger" ffs, bad enough with GERS!

[Baldwigforjack]

3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

One of my Great Grandfather's was in the 4th Battalion Royal Scots, serving in Egypt & Palestine in 1917, was compulsory tranferred to the Royal Engineers in January 1918 and seen the rest of the war out on the Western Front in France, working in the railway division.

 

Another one was in the 3rd Battalion Royal Scots from 1903 to 1907, inbetween spells in the cavalry, first in India in the 1890's with the 19th Hussars and then in Mespotamia with the 14th Hussars during WWI.

Your greatgrandfather would have served with my greatgrandfather, he was also in the 4th, served in Gallipoli,Palestine, Egypt and ended the war at the Western front.

[Sharpie]

My uncle George Mackenzie served with the Royal Scots during WW1, and was a survivor of the Gretna Rail Crash. When I was a teen and National Service still in, a few of the neighborhood boys went into the Royal Scots which I believe is or was Edinburghs Regiment.  Their recruiting sergeant was one of the participants of a number of Scottish Regiment recruiting sergeants who were harassing me when I went in to join the Scots Guards, they were all actively trying to get me to sign for them as they needed replacements for Korea where they were serving.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Baldwigforjack said:

Your greatgrandfather would have served with my greatgrandfather, he was also in the 4th, served in Gallipoli,Palestine, Egypt and ended the war at the Western front.

 

Mine's wasn't at Gallipoli, he joined the 4th from the 7th Reserve Battalion in August 1916.

Arrived in Alexandria on the 5 Jan 1917 on the Troop Ship "Kingstonian", which had set sail from Marseille on christmas day 1916.

Spent the whole of 1917 in Egypt & Palestine.

Transferred to the City of Edinburgh Royal Engineers (Railway Division) on the 1 Jan 1918 and sent to France for the remainder of the war as a Sapper.  Before and after the war he was a pavior, so had the knowledge and skills needed to build/fix roads, lay rail tracks etc.

[Herbert.]

5 hours ago, John Findlay said:

As an ex serviceman who had an uncle in the Royal Scots in WW2, yes very sad day indeed.

 

What branch did you serve? I've never seen you mention it before.

[Herbert.]

1 hour ago, Baldwigforjack said:

Your greatgrandfather would have served with my greatgrandfather, he was also in the 4th, served in Gallipoli,Palestine, Egypt and ended the war at the Western front.

 

Maybe it's the same guy?

[Spellczech]

St Andrews Day too

[John Findlay]

42 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

What branch did you serve? I've never seen you mention it before.

I was a Radio Operator Tactical, Royal Navy.

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Another of our great regiments gone. I can't hate Westminster any more but they find new ways for me to do so! Scottishness getting eroded enough. Calling it "Ranger" ffs, bad enough with GERS!

The New Ranger.

What an embarrassment.

[Roxy Hearts]

25 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The New Ranger.

What an embarrassment.

Dreadful name. I despair at times of what Scots have allowed to happen. Our proud regiments don't exist. Any time I'm in the Highlands or small Scottish Town I pay my respects at the memorials to the brave men who fought for our freedom. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[The Real Maroonblood]

59 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Dreadful name. I despair at times of what Scots have allowed to happen. Our proud regiments don't exist. Any time I'm in the Highlands or small Scottish Town I pay my respects at the memorials to the brave men who fought for our freedom. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Pretty awful that this has been allowed to happen. 

[Tazio]

I’m amazed they’ve chopped such an old regiment. Though it’s been going on for a long time, my old man left the army over 50 years ago when his regiment was amalgamated. 

[highlandjambo3]

16 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Another of our great regiments gone. I can't hate Westminster any more but they find new ways for me to do so! Scottishness getting eroded enough. Calling it "Ranger" ffs, bad enough with GERS!

What grips my shit is the love in for the paras…..(please don’t get wound up with this, it’s not my intention to offend)……..

 

There is no future conflict that will require guys to jump out of aircraft en mass.  Their last conflict in the falklands was not an air drop, they took no part in the gulf war (mobility was needed), no part in the Bosnia conflict either.  Ok there is an airborne requirement for reconnaissance or smaller insertion operations but, a full battalion landing on the ground then stuck as there is no mobility.  Apart from that, the RAF no longer has the capability to lift 500 or so guys and all their equipment.

 

Like I said,  it meaning to offend anyone, paras I’ve met and worked with were by and large great guys, great regiment with a very proud history but, come on, their future? Really.

[broxburnjambo]

5 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

What grips my shit is the love in for the paras…..(please don’t get wound up with this, it’s not my intention to offend)……..

 

There is no future conflict that will require guys to jump out of aircraft en mass.  Their last conflict in the falklands was not an air drop, they took no part in the gulf war (mobility was needed), no part in the Bosnia conflict either.  Ok there is an airborne requirement for reconnaissance or smaller insertion operations but, a full battalion landing on the ground then stuck as there is no mobility.  Apart from that, the RAF no longer has the capability to lift 500 or so guys and all their equipment.

 

Like I said,  it meaning to offend anyone, paras I’ve met and worked with were by and large great guys, great regiment with a very proud history but, come on, their future? Really.

Forgive me and please don't take offence, whilst its military related, what has the Paras got to do with The Royal Scots. They weren't the ones yesterday losing a proud name and the oldest regiment in the British Army. 

[highlandjambo3]

5 minutes ago, broxburnjambo said:

Forgive me and please don't take offence, whilst its military related, what has the Paras got to do with The Royal Scots. They weren't the ones yesterday losing a proud name and the oldest regiment in the British Army. 

The paras have nothing to do with the royal Scots, I never suggested they did.  My post is about amalgamation and dissecting the army over that last few decades…..regiment after regiment changing names, but the paras are untouchable, ok they are now highly Mobil now as they have had to adapt but, they are infantry that jump out of planes…..except there is no need to jump out of planes now, or certainly not at battalion sized air drops.  3 battalions of paratroopers who will never drop into a combat zone.

[Baldwigforjack]

Its not. His didn't serve at Gallipoli. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Baldwigforjack

[Sharpie]

5 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

The paras have nothing to do with the royal Scots, I never suggested they did.  My post is about amalgamation and dissecting the army over that last few decades…..regiment after regiment changing names, but the paras are untouchable, ok they are now highly Mobil now as they have had to adapt but, they are infantry that jump out of planes…..except there is no need to jump out of planes now, or certainly not at battalion sized air drops.  3 battalions of paratroopers who will never drop into a combat zone.

 

The Guards have a parachute unit, they are used as Pathfinders, I suspect the Parachute Regiment will diversify to a similar role. Is the new Regiment which seemed to be called Rangers, a version of the U.S. Army Rangers a highly skilled and efficient tactical unit.

Sentiment is a strong emotion, but it is 2021, the days of bayonet charging kilted warriors are gone, history is what it is, the past, and a subject for books, the military is a present day fact and must be structured and operated accordingly. 

.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Sharpie said:

 

The Guards have a parachute unit, they are used as Pathfinders, I suspect the Parachute Regiment will diversify to a similar role. Is the new Regiment which seemed to be called Rangers, a version of the U.S. Army Rangers a highly skilled and efficient tactical unit.

Sentiment is a strong emotion, but it is 2021, the days of bayonet charging kilted warriors are gone, history is what it is, the past, and a subject for books, the military is a present day fact and must be structured and operated accordingly. 

.

Scots Guards Bayonet charged Tumbledown mountain in 1982. Put the Tom Kites up the Argentinians at the time.

[Sharpie]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

Scots Guards Bayonet charged Tumbledown mountain in 1982. Put the Tom Kites up the Argentinians at the time.

 

I am well aware of that, know many of the men by internet contact who participated, but even that was thirty odd  years ago, it was on isolated Islands against an enemy with no wide history of world level military success. My reference is to todays 2021, potential enemies such as the always threatening Russia and China, a company of bayonet carrying and pointing  Guardsmen attacking say Russian 2021 weapon equipped troops would possibly be considered courageous, but extremely unwise.

[John Findlay]

54 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I am well aware of that, know many of the men by internet contact who participated, but even that was thirty odd  years ago, it was on isolated Islands against an enemy with no wide history of world level military success. My reference is to todays 2021, potential enemies such as the always threatening Russia and China, a company of bayonet carrying and pointing  Guardsmen attacking say Russian 2021 weapon equipped troops would possibly be considered courageous, but extremely unwise.

Bob on the face of it yes, but all the Russians are conscripts and I still believe not as well trained as their British counterpart. I firmly believe an Army that relies more on their equipment than the soldier using it, will be an army that ultimately fails.

[graygo]

Nothing to add to the thread other than to pass on my respect and awe at you guys who know their great/grandparents involvement in the wars. Keep passing that info on in your families, it's the least these brave souls deserve. 👍

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

My Dad was in The Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders in the mid 50’s.

Served in Korea(after the war). Said it was the coldest place he’s ever been. He was in Aden, Singapore and Egypt. Signed up at 17. He didn’t do National Service. 
His regiment amalgamated with the Seaforth Highlanders in 61 and became the Queen’s Own Highlanders. He was always bitter about that. Even more so when they were then disbanded or amalgamated once again. He’s 84 and still walks a couple of miles every day. Infantry will do that to you. Said they walked everywhere. There was never “enough” trucks. 😂

[highlandjambo3]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

The Guards have a parachute unit, they are used as Pathfinders, I suspect the Parachute Regiment will diversify to a similar role. Is the new Regiment which seemed to be called Rangers, a version of the U.S. Army Rangers a highly skilled and efficient tactical unit.

Sentiment is a strong emotion, but it is 2021, the days of bayonet charging kilted warriors are gone, history is what it is, the past, and a subject for books, the military is a present day fact and must be structured and operated accordingly. 

.

The soldiers will be the same soldiers as they currently are, in that new recruits (infantry) will all train generically as phase 1 Soldiers compatible with all army recruits (I.e how to tie your bootlaces, march about, fire a rifle etc…..the basics) then, they will move onto phase 2 training where they all go off to their specialised roles (I.e infantry to Catterick, engineers to Engineer school, signals to signal school etc).  
 

At the end of phase 2 all recruits join their unit where ever and whatever that may be.  So, these “rangers” will join their infantry battalion with no more specialised training than any other newly trained infantry soldier.  I can only speculate but, I’d imagine this new ranger unit will be light strike, highly mobile and quick reaction unit (bit like WW2 long range desert patrol group) specialising in things like reconnaissance…….their new soldiers will start their specialist training once they get to their unit.  This training will likely be conducted by their own NCO’s who may have to go on some external training courses, only speculation as it’s early days.

[davemclaren]

My great uncle was I the Royal Scots and died in France in 1917. My uncle was a conscript in the Royal Scots in the 50s. Unfortunately, the structures and organisations of the past aren’t always the most appropriate and relevant for the future. 

[Hesh]

A sad further Americanisation of our Army

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Awbdy Oot said:

Nothing to add to the thread other than to pass on my respect and awe at you guys who know their great/grandparents involvement in the wars. Keep passing that info on in your families, it's the least these brave souls deserve. 👍

Excellent post.

[highlandjambo3]

1 hour ago, Hesh said:

A sad further Americanisation of our Army

We used to have the Royal Irish Rangers as part of the Army so it’s not just the name……there was also an HMS Enterprise long before there was a USS version

[Tazio]

2 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

My Dad was in The Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders in the mid 50’s.

Served in Korea(after the war). Said it was the coldest place he’s ever been. He was in Aden, Singapore and Egypt. Signed up at 17. He didn’t do National Service. 
His regiment amalgamated with the Seaforth Highlanders in 61 and became the Queen’s Own Highlanders. He was always bitter about that. Even more so when they were then disbanded or amalgamated once again. He’s 84 and still walks a couple of miles every day. Infantry will do that to you. Said they walked everywhere. There was never “enough” trucks. 😂

My old man, as I said earlier in the thread, was on the other side of that amalgamation as a Seaforth and felt the same. 

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Bob on the face of it yes, but all the Russians are conscripts and I still believe not as well trained as their British counterpart. I firmly believe an Army that relies more on their equipment than the soldier using it, will be an army that ultimately fails.

 

I hesitate to be critical of   conscript armies. The British Military of WW2 was highly and gloriously served by conscripts. Leading into the fifties conscripts made up if not the majority a large number of the military who dealt with situations in Palestine,Malaya, Korea, Canal Zone, securing Europe from Russian insertion, and other disturbed areas. The Russians have shown themselves to be a very effective army, and of course would or will have no hesitation if need be of using nuclear arms. I suspect the days of pitched battles are gone, quality and how lethal the equipment is will be the order of the day

The thing that shocked me in being introduced to advanced military training was how simple the deliberate taking of life became, even although never acted upon by a quiet boy from Edinburghs Southside.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

41 minutes ago, Tazio said:

My old man, as I said earlier in the thread, was on the other side of that amalgamation as a Seaforth and felt the same. 

I missed your post. Sorry.

I’m sure both Dads thought their regiment was diluted by a merger. My Dad trained at Fort George.

Where did the Seaforth train?

[Tazio]

5 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

I missed your post. Sorry.

I’m sure both Dads thought their regiment was diluted by a merger. My Dad trained at Fort George.

Where did the Seaforth train?

Fort George as well but my dad spent very little time based in the UK apart from a period where they were the regiment based at Edinburgh Castle. Malaya, Borneo, Egypt and Cyprus were where he did most of his time. 

[Hesh]

2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

We used to have the Royal Irish Rangers as part of the Army so it’s not just the name……there was also an HMS Enterprise long before there was a USS version

well aware of Royal Irish Rangers, its the fact they are being renamed 1st Bn The Ranger Regiment they could still be in the Ranger Regiment but remain the Royal Scots Borderers 

[highlandjambo3]

11 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

I suspect the days of pitched battles are gone, quality and how lethal the equipment is will be the order of the day

 

That statement is correct, delivering death from a distance somehow seems to detach the deliverer from the recipient, drinking a cup of coffee in an air conditioned room whilst flying a drone to a target thousands of miles away seems to be normal now.  Drones were originally part of a reconnaissance program until some suit said “hey, what about strapping a missile onto this thing”.  To be fair, the weakest component in a jet fighter is the pilot.

 

I remember doing an anti - tank platoon commanders course in Warminster back in the 90’s, one of the instructors asked a question to the whole course “what’s the best way to knock out a tank”?, after a couple of days and many “Rambo” type answers the solution was simple, go round the tank and take out the fuel truck on its way to re supply the tank…….simple.  So, in general, technology will always play the lead role in any future shaping of our forces.

 

Couple of points about Russian military perception:

 

AK47 assault rifle, the first setting of the safety catch after safe is full automatic, the second setting after safe is semi-automatic.  There is no other rifle anywhere else that I know of has this setting……a very aggressive posture.

 

The BMP2 (armoured Russian troop carrier), the fuel tanks are actually contained in the vehicles bulbous rear doors, their reasoning was “we will never show our back to the enemy”.  A complete bunch of bampots .

[Hesh]

39 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

 

 

I remember doing an anti - tank platoon commanders course in Warminster back in the 90’s, one of the instructors asked a question to the whole course “what’s the best way to knock out a tank”?, after a couple of days and many “Rambo” type answers the solution was simple, go round the tank and take out the fuel truck on its way to re supply the tank…….simple.  So, in general, technology will always play the lead role in any future shaping of our forces.

 

 

 

Ditto, I mind racing to the afv recce room to get in that front row to save about 250m range on the model vehicles, those that know, know 🤣

[John Gentleman]

15 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

I hesitate to be critical of   conscript armies. The British Military of WW2 was highly and gloriously served by conscripts. Leading into the fifties conscripts made up if not the majority a large number of the military who dealt with situations in Palestine,Malaya, Korea, Canal Zone, securing Europe from Russian insertion, and other disturbed areas. The Russians have shown themselves to be a very effective army, and of course would or will have no hesitation if need be of using nuclear arms. I suspect the days of pitched battles are gone, quality and how lethal the equipment is will be the order of the day

The thing that shocked me in being introduced to advanced military training was how simple the deliberate taking of life became, even although never acted upon by a quiet boy from Edinburghs Southside.

I believe Bob, these days, "pitched battles" are called "kinetic warfare".
No, I'm not joking!