White Ribbon pledge

[Alex Kintner]

14 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

"Gender Based Violence" makes it sound like men are hitting women because they are women. I doubt this is the case...

 

 

 

It’s called gender based violence because it’s rooted in an inbalance of power caused by gender inequality. 

 

14 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

 

Couples argue. I argue with my wife all the time, but I've never hit her or any other woman.
 

 

Good. Fortunately the majority of men have similar morals, self control and respect for others Unfortunately far too many men do not.

 

14 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

 

I was brought up by parents who said boys do not hit girls. I think we have to try to understand that some people have no grounding of this sort at all...

 

That’s why input at school and from peers and key adults is so vital.

 

14 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

It is no coincidence that people from abusive homes end up living in abusive homes.

Children brought up witnessing domestic abuse are statistically more likely to be future perpetrators or victims unfortunately. Those stats are improving due to therapeutic inputs but not quickly enough.

[Spellczech]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

 

It’s called gender based violence because it’s rooted in an inbalance of power caused by gender inequality. 

 

 

Good. Fortunately the majority of men have similar morals, self control and respect for others Unfortunately far too many men do not.

 

 

That’s why input at school and from peers and key adults is so vital.

 

Children brought up witnessing domestic abuse are statistically more likely to be future perpetrators or victims unfortunately. Those stats are improving due to therapeutic inputs but not quickly enough.

The fact that you dissect one paragraph into constituent sentences as if they are stand alone arguments proves that you cannot interpret what other people write in more than the most basic terms.

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Yes you are wrong. I said that ALL people should try to get to properly know their prospective partner... It wasn't difficult. It was only 1 flipping paragraph - what you must be like with some of the book-writers on here!?

You literally said “If I was a woman…”

👇🏻

 

24 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

"If I was a woman, I would spend the "get to know you phase" early days of a relationship asking about the background of prospective partners.

Do you have some sort of selective amnesia? 😳

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

The fact that you dissect one paragraph into constituent sentences as if they are stand alone arguments proves that you cannot interpret what other people write in more than the most basic terms.

No wonder you argue with your wife all the time. Jesus wept.

 

[AlimOzturk]

On 26/11/2021 at 11:33, Alex Kintner said:

Sorry to hear that CBH. Domestic violence is unacceptable regardless of the gender of the perpetrator or victim.

 

The vast, vast majority of abuse is perpetrated by men which is why it’s the focus of the White Ribbon campaign.

Of reported crimes. Men will tend to not report it due to shame of being emasculated and not being believed (I.E men are stronger and shouldn’t suffer domestic abuse blah blah blah)

 

Therefore I disagree with white ribbon campaign on the basis I believe it sends out the wrong message that men are entirely to blame when it comes to domestic violence. 

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

You literally said “If I was a woman…”

👇🏻

 

Do you have some sort of selective amnesia? 😳

So what? Again, you are quoting selectively. This time half a sentence. That is simplistic nonsense. Who ever made sense in half a sentence? By all means take a whole argument and argue with it but don't be selective and try to twist words because you cannot interpret more than one sentence.

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

No wonder you argue with your wife all the time. Jesus wept.

 

Don't worry, she's way smarter than you...

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Of reported crimes. Men will tend to not report it due to shame of being emasculated and not being believed (I.E men are stronger and shouldn’t suffer domestic abuse blah blah blah)

 

Therefore I disagree with white ribbon campaign on the basis I believe it sends out the wrong message that men are entirely to blame when it comes to domestic violence. 

How many women do you think are too afraid to report domestic abuse? Do you think that number is higher or lower than the number of men ashamed to report domestic abuse?

 

I respect your right to disagree with the campaign. It’s purpose is to recognise that the vast, vast majority of domestic abuse perpetrators are male and therefore it’s a male problem. Not everybody can get on board with that for whatever reason.

[Alex Kintner]

18 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

So what? Again, you are quoting selectively. This time half a sentence. That is simplistic nonsense. Who ever made sense in half a sentence? By all means take a whole argument and argue with it but don't be selective and try to twist words because you cannot interpret more than one sentence.

My mistake. I was assuming you were using the traditional version of the English language where a full stop meant the end of a sentence. 👇🏻
 

48 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

If I was a woman, I would spend the "get to know you phase" early days of a relationship asking about the background of prospective partners.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Alex Kintner]

16 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Don't worry, she's way smarter than you...

And clearly way more tolerant!

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

My mistake. I was assuming you were using the traditional version of the English language where a full stop meant the end of a sentence. 👇🏻
 

 

FFS man: Think! I've never been hit by a woman. Yet I know not to hit them back even if I was. No man has ever, in my life, hit me without getting hit back. I've never been a victim so I'm imagining what it is like. That is all that sentence was about...You can imply whatever subtext you choose, but it does not fit with the context. 

 

If you want to interpret what someone is saying, you have to do it in paragraphs. A paragraph is where an argument is, not a sentence, unless the paragraph is only one sentence. Adhere to this basic rule and you'll get more out of JKB. And I'll enjoy it more too, as I won't feel like a bloody English teacher!

 

Honestly, when I said my wife it smarter...English is her SECOND language and she knows it better than you.

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

FFS man: Think! I've never been hit by a woman. Yet I know not to hit them back even if I was. No man has ever, in my life, hit me without getting hit back. I've never been a victim so I'm imagining what it is like. That is all that sentence was about...You can imply whatever subtext you choose, but it does not fit with the context. 

 

If you want to interpret what someone is saying, you have to do it in paragraphs. A paragraph is where an argument is, not a sentence, unless the paragraph is only one sentence. Adhere to this basic rule and you'll get more out of JKB. And I'll enjoy it more too, as I won't feel like a bloody English teacher!

 

Honestly, when I said my wife it smarter...English is her SECOND language and she knows it better than you.

Look this thread is about awareness raising so let’s start again…

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

"Gender Based Violence" makes it sound like men are hitting women because they are women. I doubt this is the case...Couples argue. I argue with my wife all the time, but I've never hit her or any other woman. I was brought up by parents who said boys do not hit girls. I think we have to try to understand that some people have no grounding of this sort at all...If I was a woman, I would spend the "get to know you phase" early days of a relationship asking about the background of prospective partners. Before I get castigated for "victim blaming" I'll quickly add that too many people of both sexes dive into relationships without a care. It is no coincidence that people from abusive homes end up living in abusive homes.

You make some good points in this post but there’s a couple of things that I find a bit troubling.  
 

The first is that you question whether the men are hitting the women because they’re women. That’s at the very core of gender based violence. It’s the power imbalance caused by inequality and in the vast, vast majority of cases it’s a man hitting a woman, emotionally abusing them or coercively controlling them. These men believe they have a right to treat their partner this way (whether male or female) because they exert power over them rather than treat them equally with respect. I respect your right to doubt whether this is the case but if you've ever done any reading on the subject or attended training or listened to survivor’s of DA speak then you’d realise it is the case.

 

The second thing I find troubling is that you suggest women should spend some time at the start of the relationship enquiring about the background of their partners. This puts an unfair onus on women and suggests that it’s their responsibility to somehow detect their partner may be a domestic abuser. That’s borderline victim blaming imo. Thankfully we now have the Right to Ask scheme which provides information where women do suspect however it doesn’t take into account one key factor. A lot of domestic abusers are wonderful manipulators. They convince the woman that they are the perfect man, they mimic the woman’s dreams and ambitions and use any tactic they can to get the woman where they want them. Once they move themselves in and/or they get the woman pregnant and/or they make the woman financially reliant on them and/or they cut the woman off from their friends and family then the abuse begins in earnest.
 

That’s where the White Ribbon campaign comes in. It’s about recognising that domestic abusers do all these things and that the vast, vast majority of them are men. The solution isn’t women doing anything differently. The solution is men doing lots of things differently.

 

[Spellczech]

56 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

You make some good points in this post but there’s a couple of things that I find a bit troubling.  
 

The first is that you question whether the men are hitting the women because they’re women. That’s at the very core of gender based violence. It’s the power imbalance caused by inequality and in the vast, vast majority of cases it’s a man hitting a woman, emotionally abusing them or coercively controlling them. These men believe they have a right to treat their partner this way (whether male or female) because they exert power over them rather than treat them equally with respect. I respect your right to doubt whether this is the case but if you've ever done any reading on the subject or attended training or listened to survivor’s of DA speak then you’d realise it is the case.

 

The second thing I find troubling is that you suggest women should spend some time at the start of the relationship enquiring about the background of their partners. This puts an unfair onus on women and suggests that it’s their responsibility to somehow detect their partner may be a domestic abuser. That’s borderline victim blaming imo. Thankfully we now have the Right to Ask scheme which provides information where women do suspect however it doesn’t take into account one key factor. A lot of domestic abusers are wonderful manipulators. They convince the woman that they are the perfect man, they mimic the woman’s dreams and ambitions and use any tactic they can to get the woman where they want them. Once they move themselves in and/or they get the woman pregnant and/or they make the woman financially reliant on them and/or they cut the woman off from their friends and family then the abuse begins in earnest.
 

That’s where the White Ribbon campaign comes in. It’s about recognising that domestic abusers do all these things and that the vast, vast majority of them are men. The solution isn’t women doing anything differently. The solution is men doing lots of things differently.

 

I congratulate you for finally reading what I wrote rather than simply seeking to abuse me and label me a victim-blamer! All I was doing was questioning some of the apparently accepted views. I have no experience whatsoever of these things that you are clearly very involved in. The only slightly 2 relevant experiences from my entire life of this sort of thing, are that I once prevented a rape being committed when I lived in Canada, and I still bear the scar of that teewat coming at me with a box-cutter (stanley knife). The other was when me and 4 mates were leaving Century 2000 on Lothian Rd and saw a couple arguing and they began hitting one another - rather she began hitting him, at first he restrained her, then he pushed her away and she fell - Anyway my flatmate didn't like it and went and got involved, even though the rest of us told him not to. Next thing we knew the couple both physically attacked him! The rest of us had to go and rescue him. The only physical damage the next morning was caused by her nails to his face. Sometimes being the hero isn't the best idea. Sometimes the obvious isn't always the truth, and I'm not a big fan of patronising women by calling them the weaker sex etc. It smacks of the hypocrisy of the heroic murderers who despise and, given the chance, do some really nasty things to the Category C prisoners in chokey...

 

Your summary above is very patronising to both women and men. It is a total over-simplification and generalisation, by stating categorically that there is nothing women can do. Women are not intrinsically helpless. Whilst some find themselves in hopeless situations, there are others get themselves into hopeless situations. Observing that is not victim-blaming, it is merely the truth of human frailty. We are impulsive beings and that goes for both the perpetrators and the victims. Pretending it is all power-politics is bollocks. Sometimes it is just people who have never learned to control their emotions, or whose first resort is violence over talking.

[Ked]

Thinking back I'd be surprised if any of us didnt know of some guy who slapped his wife about.

I can think of two.

One eventually took a right good hiding from a few boys who had grown up with the lassie.

The other guy I never knew what happened as they moved away.

I think the point I'm making is that on a day to day basis these guys were never pulled up by us other men.

Until after years the first example I gave.

This is a good thread Alex .

I do think it's a topic that men need to think about in the sense of how we treat women in general.

Often even just chat about them in a sexual way may seem just being a lad needs to be considered.

 

What I will say is I had no idea that there was a white ribbon week event.

I am aware of the figures about crimes against women .

We have a long way to go.

There were some powerful ads on the radio recently which asked men to think about their attitudes.

We may not like it but i think an awful lot of us may not have acted properly .

I include myself in that.

 

Anyway good thread and hopefully some good chat about the topic.

We all have sisters mothers etc.

[Alex Kintner]

25 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I congratulate you for finally reading what I wrote rather than simply seeking to abuse me and label me a victim-blamer! All I was doing was questioning some of the apparently accepted views. I have no experience whatsoever of these things that you are clearly very involved in. The only slightly 2 relevant experiences from my entire life of this sort of thing, are that I once prevented a rape being committed when I lived in Canada, and I still bear the scar of that teewat coming at me with a box-cutter (stanley knife). The other was when me and 4 mates were leaving Century 2000 on Lothian Rd and saw a couple arguing and they began hitting one another - rather she began hitting him, at first he restrained her, then he pushed her away and she fell - Anyway my flatmate didn't like it and went and got involved, even though the rest of us told him not to. Next thing we knew the couple both physically attacked him! The rest of us had to go and rescue him. The only physical damage the next morning was caused by her nails to his face. Sometimes being the hero isn't the best idea. Sometimes the obvious isn't always the truth, and I'm not a big fan of patronising women by calling them the weaker sex etc. It smacks of the hypocrisy of the heroic murderers who despise and, given the chance, do some really nasty things to the Category C prisoners in chokey...

 

Your summary above is very patronising to both women and men. It is a total over-simplification and generalisation, by stating categorically that there is nothing women can do. Women are not intrinsically helpless. Whilst some find themselves in hopeless situations, there are others get themselves into hopeless situations. Observing that is not victim-blaming, it is merely the truth of human frailty. We are impulsive beings and that goes for both the perpetrators and the victims. Pretending it is all power-politics is bollocks. Sometimes it is just people who have never learned to control their emotions, or whose first resort is violence over talking.

I’m sure women don’t want special treatment or to be protected as the fairer or weaker sex. They just want to be treated equally and with respect.

 

Nobody is saying there’s nothing women can do, I’m certainly not and I specifically mentioned the Right to Ask initiative. The point is that they shouldn’t have to go out of their way to protect themselves against domestic abuse. They have a relationship with a partner, brother, son, father etc and inherent in that should be the freedom from abuse.

 

”Other women get themselves into hopeless situations” - can you elaborate a bit more on that please?

Men who have never learned to emotionally regulate is key to the whole thing. That’s why challenging harmful gender stereotypes is one of the main focuses happening in schools now. Boys who are told “boys don’t cry” and “boys need to be strong and tough”’ then become young men unable to emotionally regulate and violence and anger become the norm. In one exercise, 5 year old boys and girls were asked to name as many different emotions as they could. On average the girls were able to name 8 or 9 which were a mixture of positive and negative emotions. Some Of the boys could only mention a couple and angry was always one of them. Even at that age, harmful gender stereotypes are beginning to solidify and they need to be challenged.

 

[Ulysses]

Dear sweet baby Jesus.  Where do we get them from?

[Alex Kintner]

47 minutes ago, Ked said:

Thinking back I'd be surprised if any of us didnt know of some guy who slapped his wife about.

I can think of two.

One eventually took a right good hiding from a few boys who had grown up with the lassie.

The other guy I never knew what happened as they moved away.

I think the point I'm making is that on a day to day basis these guys were never pulled up by us other men.

Until after years the first example I gave.

This is a good thread Alex .

I do think it's a topic that men need to think about in the sense of how we treat women in general.

Often even just chat about them in a sexual way may seem just being a lad needs to be considered.

 

What I will say is I had no idea that there was a white ribbon week event.

I am aware of the figures about crimes against women .

We have a long way to go.

There were some powerful ads on the radio recently which asked men to think about their attitudes.

We may not like it but i think an awful lot of us may not have acted properly .

I include myself in that.

 

Anyway good thread and hopefully some good chat about the topic.

We all have sisters mothers etc.

Thanks Ked. The two examples you give are familiar to me growing up as well. The White Ribbon campaign isn’t just about trying to impact the behaviour of the perpetrators or stop potential perpetrators, it’s trying to encourage men to  try to positively influence other men or to even intervene safely as a bystander. The example we always use with the young people is to imagine that you’re at a house party. You become aware that a guy has taken a really drunk girl into a bedroom on her own or you overhear something that sounds like physical or verbal abuse. Rather than barge in and try to play the hero, and potentially put yourself at risk while making the situation worse, you find a way of intervening and stopping the incident. “Hey everybody, apparently Stevie’s mum has got a huge picture of Steven Gerrard up on her bedroom wall. Let’s go check it out!” Everyone piles into the bedroom and the potential rape or abuse is interrupted/prevented.

 

Yeah, lots of good media content recently. The recent “Don’t be that guy” video from Police Scotland was particularly effective I thought :

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Alex Kintner]

13 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Dear sweet baby Jesus.  Where do we get them from?

What do you mean Uly?

[Ked]

12 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Thanks Ked. The two examples you give are familiar to me growing up as well. The White Ribbon campaign isn’t just about trying to impact the behaviour of the perpetrators or stop potential perpetrators, it’s trying to encourage men to  try to positively influence other men or to even intervene safely as a bystander. The example we always use with the young people is to imagine that you’re at a house party. You become aware that a guy has taken a really drunk girl into a bedroom on her own or you overhear something that sounds like physical or verbal abuse. Rather than barge in and try to play the hero, and potentially put yourself at risk while making the situation worse, you find a way of intervening and stopping the incident. “Hey everybody, apparently Stevie’s mum has got a huge picture of Steven Gerrard up on her bedroom wall. Let’s go check it out!” Everyone piles into the bedroom and the potential rape or abuse is interrupted/prevented.

 

Yeah, lots of good media content recently. The recent “Don’t be that guy” video from Police Scotland was particularly effective I thought :

 

 

 

 

Aye that was it.

Dont be that guy.

 

[Ulysses]

17 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

What do you mean Uly?

 

I mean don't be that guy.  It's a sound message, and it would be good to see it promoted and supported, and hopefully not undermined.

[Alex Kintner]

18 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I mean don't be that guy.  It's a sound message, and it would be good to see it promoted and supported, and hopefully not undermined.

Totally agree 👍🏻

[bawheed]

34 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Totally agree 👍🏻

Think ur £5 pledge will help get to ur £20k just might take wee while.

[Alex Kintner]

8 hours ago, bawheed said:

Think ur £5 pledge will help get to ur £20k just might take wee while.

Wrong thread? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Spellczech]

10 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

I’m sure women don’t want special treatment or to be protected as the fairer or weaker sex. They just want to be treated equally and with respect.

 

Nobody is saying there’s nothing women can do, I’m certainly not and I specifically mentioned the Right to Ask initiative. The point is that they shouldn’t have to go out of their way to protect themselves against domestic abuse. They have a relationship with a partner, brother, son, father etc and inherent in that should be the freedom from abuse.

 

”Other women get themselves into hopeless situations” - can you elaborate a bit more on that please?

Men who have never learned to emotionally regulate is key to the whole thing. That’s why challenging harmful gender stereotypes is one of the main focuses happening in schools now. Boys who are told “boys don’t cry” and “boys need to be strong and tough”’ then become young men unable to emotionally regulate and violence and anger become the norm. In one exercise, 5 year old boys and girls were asked to name as many different emotions as they could. On average the girls were able to name 8 or 9 which were a mixture of positive and negative emotions. Some Of the boys could only mention a couple and angry was always one of them. Even at that age, harmful gender stereotypes are beginning to solidify and they need to be challenged.

 

I've been crystal clear on it - there are people who are impulsive, just as there are people who are manipulative. They simply don't bother thinking about what prospective partners are really like - too caught up in the whirlwind of emotions that come with a new relationship. Then there are the extreme cases who get involved with ]people even though they may already know that s/he has a history of abuse, whether it be physical or mental. Look at that guy from Love Island, Stephen Bear, who is currently on trial for sharing private sex videos of his ex but some other girl has already picked up with him; Johnny Depp still has as many female admirers as before. I don't know if it is wilful blindness, naivety, inexperience, lust, arrogance or what but some people do seem to get themselves into these situations and palm off warnings from friends with platitudes like "S/he's different with me/ He's misunderstood/ He makes me feel protected / even He had a difficult upbringing (ie they know the risks and still go for it)etc etc" I know this is difficult for people like you to comprehend which is why the victim-shaming line has emerged as the blanket passive aggressive conversation-killer. I can see why it suits to be black & white and only have perpetrators and victims, but it is an over-simplification of of human behaviour. Some people are stupid; Some are reckless; Some are impulsive just as some are conniving...

 

And thus we are back to where I began "Gender-based violence" wrongly assumes that men intend to harm women.  As a title it is not all-encompassing. It is very much about men being perpetrators and women being victims. Until the people interested in it stop with the black & white analysis, they won't notice the staring truths like that people tend not to involve themselves in other people's domestic/family situations. You can see that contrast in the 2 examples above where I mention my own experiences: I took a knife-wound for one stranger who i think may have been a prostitute who was getting attacked, and I advised my flatmate not to get involved where he saw a drunk couple getting violent with one another, and was proved right on there...And that it is highly patronising of both sexes to see one as always the victim and the other as always the controlling abuser. People owe it to themselves to take care in picking their partner, but plenty don't do it, and that can manifest itself in the form of single parenthood,  neglect of kids etc. Loads of different unpleasant family situations, not just abuse of women by men. ( there are cases in the courts/news right now about kids being killed because of abusive dysfunctional parent/stepparent relationships - a 6 yr old boy called Alfie killed by his father/stepmother, and a lesbian couple who beat a toddler to death)

Edited December 1, 2021 by Spellczech

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I've been crystal clear on it - there are people who are impulsive, just as there are people who are manipulative. They simply don't bother thinking about what prospective partners are really like - too caught up in the whirlwind of emotions that come with a new relationship. Then there are the extreme cases who get involved with ]people even though they may already know that s/he has a history of abuse, whether it be physical or mental. Look at that guy from Love Island, Stephen Bear, who is currently on trial for sharing private sex videos of his ex but some other girl has already picked up with him; Johnny Depp still has as many female admirers as before. I don't know if it is wilful blindness, naivety, inexperience, lust, arrogance or what but some people do seem to get themselves into these situations and palm off warnings from friends with platitudes like "S/he's different with me/ He's misunderstood/ He makes me feel protected / even He had a difficult upbringing (ie they know the risks and still go for it)etc etc" I know this is difficult for people like you to comprehend which is why the victim-shaming line has emerged as the blanket passive aggressive conversation-killer. I can see why it suits to be black & white and only have perpetrators and victims, but it is an over-simplification of of human behaviour. Some people are stupid; Some are reckless; Some are impulsive just as some are conniving...

 

And thus we are back to where I began "Gender-based violence" wrongly assumes that men intend to harm women.  As a title it is not all-encompassing. It is very much about men being perpetrators and women being victims. Until the people interested in it stop with the black & white analysis, they won't notice the staring truths like that people tend not to involve themselves in other people's domestic/family situations. You can see that contrast in the 2 examples above where I mention my own experiences: I took a knife-wound for one stranger who i think may have been a prostitute who was getting attacked, and I advised my flatmate not to get involved where he saw a drunk couple getting violent with one another, and was proved right on there...And that it is highly patronising of both sexes to see one as always the victim and the other as always the controlling abuser. People owe it to themselves to take care in picking their partner, but plenty don't do it, and that can manifest itself in the form of single parenthood,  neglect of kids etc. Loads of different unpleasant family situations, not just abuse of women by men. 

I respect your opinion. I think it’s completely unhelpful and the sort of attitude that has stopped domestic abuse reducing over the last fifty years but I respect your right to that opinion.

 

I’ve tried to explain where I think your conclusions are wrong however it’s clear from your last post that your position is unmovable. I genuinely do think you are falling into the trap of focusing on the victim’s actions rather than the perpetrator’s actions but again that is your right.

 

Hopefully others who now read this thread get some benefit from seeing our discussion and further awareness is raised. 
 

All the best 👍🏻

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

I respect your opinion. I think it’s completely unhelpful and the sort of attitude that has stopped domestic abuse reducing over the last fifty years but I respect your right to that opinion.

 

I’ve tried to explain where I think your conclusions are wrong however it’s clear from your last post that your position is unmovable. I genuinely do think you are falling into the trap of focusing on the victim’s actions rather than the perpetrator’s actions but again that is your right.

 

Hopefully others who now read this thread get some benefit from seeing our discussion and further awareness is raised. 
 

All the best 👍🏻

Hope not. I hope it has opened your eyes to stop pigeon-holing issues with false black-white analysis. The 2 current child-murders I mention at the end. You would want to exclude them from any consideration because they are not "gender-based" - 2 lesbians killing a little girl? Ignore it. On the contrary it is totally relevant as it is domestic violence which as I said we are trained to turn a blind eye to...Parents abusing children behind the family front door should not be treated any differently from husbands killing wives or wives killing husbands, but the moniker "gender-based violence" makes it different. 

[XB52]

Good thread Alex Kintner, just a pity that, in true JKB fashion, there is always one to try and ruin it. I've got very personal knowledge of the horror of domestic abuse, where the victim would cover it up, make excuses, whatever rather than face up to the fact her husband was an animal. Thankfully that part of her life is over now and he moved on to abusing his new wife, despite her being warned about the mistake she was making. 

[Spellczech]

5 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Good thread Alex Kintner, just a pity that, in true JKB fashion, there is always one to try and ruin it. I've got very personal knowledge of the horror of domestic abuse, where the victim would cover it up, make excuses, whatever rather than face up to the fact her husband was an animal. Thankfully that part of her life is over now and he moved on to abusing his new wife, despite her being warned about the mistake she was making. 

?Ruining a thread is going off on a tangent or derailing it to talk of sacking Robbie. I think you are being a bit harsh on the guy who accidently posted about pledging to call it attempting to ruin it...Or do you mean me, because every post of mine has been on-topic - though it took some effort before Alex engaged. I appreciate that he did though.

 

I said right at the start that it is not an area that I have a wealth of knowledge or experience of - long time since I did a Family Law course at university & Comparative Criminal Procedure which entailed prison visits...My thoughts on this thread are not going to fix the issue Alex is concerned with, but I would hope 3 things might be achieved:

 

1.   Calling people "victim-blamers" is a total cop-out.

2.  Bogus classifications on the basis of what is trendy at the moment is a cop-out.

3.  more people on JKB realise that you have to argue with entire points ie paragraphs and posts, not pick single sentences to quote as if they encapsulate the point.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Spellczech

[AlimOzturk]

13 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

How many women do you think are too afraid to report domestic abuse? Do you think that number is higher or lower than the number of men ashamed to report domestic abuse?

 

I respect your right to disagree with the campaign. It’s purpose is to recognise that the vast, vast majority of domestic abuse perpetrators are male and therefore it’s a male problem. Not everybody can get on board with that for whatever reason.

There will of course be women who don’t report but I think the number of men not reporting will far exceed that of women. In fact male domestic abuse reports are rare but that’s not because it doesn’t happen just doesn’t get reported. 
 

This campaign just seems to be blaming men for what is an incredibly huge and complex issue. Men who domestically abuse women are scum but it doesn’t always work in the black and white way in which your trying to portray it and does nothing to address the abuse that men suffer and also completely ignores the LGBT community. 

[AlimOzturk]

28 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Good thread Alex Kintner, just a pity that, in true JKB fashion, there is always one to try and ruin it. I've got very personal knowledge of the horror of domestic abuse, where the victim would cover it up, make excuses, whatever rather than face up to the fact her husband was an animal. Thankfully that part of her life is over now and he moved on to abusing his new wife, despite her being warned about the mistake she was making. 

Nobody is trying to ruin the thread. This is a forum and people are allowed to disagree. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

Good thread Alex Kintner, just a pity that, in true JKB fashion, there is always one to try and ruin it. I've got very personal knowledge of the horror of domestic abuse, where the victim would cover it up, make excuses, whatever rather than face up to the fact her husband was an animal. Thankfully that part of her life is over now and he moved on to abusing his new wife, despite her being warned about the mistake she was making. 

Thanks X.
 

Yes, there’s a plethora of reasons why a victim will enter a relationship and/or stay in an abusive relationship. The important thing is recognising that those reasons almost always are based on actions by perpetrators (gaslighting, coercive control, lying about the past, downplaying the past, promising they’ve changed etc

To be fair I don’t think anyone is ruining the thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it can help raise awareness for others reading the thread if they see opposing views and in some cases, extreme views.

👍🏻

Edited December 1, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Alex Kintner]

42 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

There will of course be women who don’t report but I think the number of men not reporting will far exceed that of women. In fact male domestic abuse reports are rare but that’s not because it doesn’t happen just doesn’t get reported. 
 

This campaign just seems to be blaming men for what is an incredibly huge and complex issue. Men who domestically abuse women are scum but it doesn’t always work in the black and white way in which your trying to portray it and does nothing to address the abuse that men suffer and also completely ignores the LGBT community. 

I’ve said a few times that it’s important to recognise that not all perpetrators are male and not all victims are female. The vast, vast majority of perpetrators are male though and that’s the key behind White Ribbon. It recognises that focusing on the victims for years hasn’t improved things and it’s beyond time to fully focus on the perpetrators. 

[Alex Kintner]

20% of all children in the UK have witnessed or been impacted by domestic abuse.

 

[Ked]

I think that Alim and spellczech are expressing their opinion and this thread should be to read that.

I can understand spellczech saying that some steps should be taken by people on entering a relationship.

But I think though I'm not sure that maybe if we take women out of the equation(which seems daft I know) this should maybe be about men.

And what we do to stop this shit happening.

 

So it might be good if however much you dont agree with someone on this we keep it from going the way of other threads.

As sometimes being attacked for your views can entrench them instead of maybe seeing it from a different view .

 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

I think that Alim and spellczech are expressing their opinion and this thread should be to read that.

I can understand spellczech saying that some steps should be taken by people on entering a relationship.

But I think though I'm not sure that maybe if we take women out of the equation(which seems daft I know) this should maybe be about men.

And what we do to stop this shit happening.

 

So it might be good if however much you dont agree with someone on this we keep it from going the way of other threads.

As sometimes being attacked for your views can entrench them instead of maybe seeing it from a different view .

 

Totally agree and I was guilty of getting angry with spellczech rather than engaging with him which was why I wanted to start over. 
 

This thread is richer for the different views expressed 👍🏻

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Totally agree and I was guilty of getting angry with spellczech rather than engaging with him which was why I wanted to start over. 
 

This thread is richer for the different views expressed 👍🏻

It's a good thread mate.

And hopefully anyone who doesnt see it as the problem it is can post why.

I bet most of us have been guilty of some degree as highlighted in the "dont be that guy"

 

[Alex Kintner]

More than half of children living with domestic abuse have themselves been physically harmed by the perpetrator. 

[Alex Kintner]

Worldwide, gender based violence kills or incapacitates more women than cancer, malaria, war and road traffic accidents combined.

[Alex Kintner]

Two women are killed every week in the UK by a current or former partner.

[Alex Kintner]

A third of teenagers in the UK know someone whose boyfriend has hit them.

[Alex Kintner]

1 in 5 UK children have been exposed to some form of domestic abuse.

[Alex Kintner]

1 in 3 women will experience domestic abuse in their lifetime.

[Alex Kintner]

50% of women who experience domestic abuse suffer from depression.

[Alex Kintner]

Around a hundred phone calls are made to domestic abuse helplines every hour.

[Alex Kintner]

Final day of the 16 days of action. Great to see this thread has had nearly 3000 views and hopefully the discussions and statistics have helped raise awareness and made people think.
 

Thanks to all those who posted, PMed, viewed and a special thank you to those who signed up to the pledge. 👍🏻

[Spellczech]

18 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Final day of the 16 days of action. Great to see this thread has had nearly 3000 views and hopefully the discussions and statistics have helped raise awareness and made people think.
 

Thanks to all those who posted, PMed, viewed and a special thank you to those who signed up to the pledge. 👍🏻

No worries - still think it is a bollox trendy approach to rename domestic abuse as "Gender Based Violence" though! 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

No worries - still think it is a bollox trendy approach to rename domestic abuse as "Gender Based Violence" though! 

No worries mate. Appreciate you taking part in the discussion as it all helps raise awareness 👍🏻

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

No worries - still think it is a bollox trendy approach to rename domestic abuse as "Gender Based Violence" though! 

Yes the “ gender based “ violence seems to forget that domestic abuse can happen between same sex couples . In fact male to male domestic abuse is more violent in some respects. Believe me 

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes the “ gender based “ violence seems to forget that domestic abuse can happen between same sex couples . In fact male to male domestic abuse is more violent in some respects. Believe me 

 

Go back and read the thread, including your own previous posts.