White Ribbon pledge

[Alex Kintner]

Today is White Ribbon day and the first of the annual 16 Days of Action across the world to raise awareness of gender based violence.

 

I wanted to make the good people of Kickback aware of the White Ribbon pledge. The key message behind White Ribbon is recognising that it’s really only men who can make the difference in reducing and hopefully one day eradicating gender based violence.

It takes 30 seconds to sign up here https://www.whiteribbon.org.uk/promise and pledge that: “I will never commit, excuse or remain silent about violence against women.” 
 

Cheers JKB and please spread the word 👍🏻

 

[Alex Kintner]

12 minutes ago, jonesy said:

While I don't see the efficacy of such pledges, I appreciate the sentiment behind what you're sharing. Domestic violence in all its shapes and forms is unacceptable.

Thanks Jonesy. It all contributes to highlighting the issue and when folk ask why I’m wearing a white ribbon badge or why my avatar has changed to a white ribbon it starts a conversation. I do appreciate that the men who are likely to sign up to the pledge wouldn’t be perpetrators of domestic violence anyway. It’s more about sending the message to the perpetrators or potential perpetrators that they are the problem, not the girls or the women (or the small but important number of male victims of GBV)

[Taffin]

It's certainly worked in raising awareness. I must confess I was unaware gender based violence was a particular issue. Fair play 👍

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

It's certainly worked in raising awareness. I must confess I was unaware gender based violence was a particular issue. Fair play 👍

My suspicious side thinks this might possibly be a sarcastic post but I’ll take it at face value. 👍🏻
 

To clarify though, the point of White Ribbon isn’t so much to raise awareness of GBV, it’s to make the point that it’s men that need to do something about it.

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

My suspicious side thinks this might possibly be a sarcastic post but I’ll take it at face value. 👍🏻
 

To clarify though, the point of White Ribbon isn’t so much to raise awareness of GBV, it’s to make the point that it’s men that need to do something about it.

 

Not intended to be sarcastic but reading it back I appreciate it may come across that way.

 

I just don't really buy into gender so it's not something I generally categorise other people into, so I don't tend to think about it much. I'm generally anti violence full stop but I appreciate that doesn't help with the part in bold, so it's something  I can now take more cognisance of. 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Taffin

[Alex Kintner]

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Not intended to be sarcastic but reading it back I appreciate it may come across that way.

 

I just don't really buy into gender so it's not something I generally categorise other people into, so I don't tend to think about it much. I'm generally anti violence full stop but I appreciate that doesn't help with the part in bold, so it's something  I can now take more cognisance of. 

 

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[Alex Kintner]

Thanks to everyone who has read this thread and special thanks to everyone who has subsequently signed the pledge and/or sent me a PM.

 

I’m going to bump this thread every day throughout the 16 days with a different statistic to try and keep the awareness going:

 

Approximately 400 UK women a year who attend hospital with injuries caused by domestic violence go on to commit suicide within six months 😞

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[chuck berrys hairline]

I suffered domestic violence from my ex due to her past experiences of the same kind and prescription drugs. It's not just men that need made aware!

[Taffin]

14 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said:

I suffered domestic violence from my ex due to her past experiences of the same kind and prescription drugs. It's not just men that need made aware!

 

Sorry to hear that, it's completely unacceptable regardless of gender imo. I also think viewing it through a lens of gender risks making male victims feel emasculated which is a total nonsense. Equally I do recognise the point of the campaign that regardless of your own views on gender, people tend to box people up into stereotypes that include the following:

 

Men - physically strong, aggressive 

Women - physically weak, passive 

 

I think most people would say that's a fallacy (at least in part/it's more complex than that as they blur the clear distinction between sex and socially constructed gender 'norms') but sadly as a male, I'll be ascribed the gender norms associated with that and as such should recognise how I may be perceived by others who still cling onto those beliefs.

 

Outdated and divisive? Imo, yes. But we are where we are I suppose.

 

So whilst I don't entirely agree with the way it's been packaged up, I am completely agreed with the sentiment intended of the campaign as in a roundabout way it shines a light that whilst gender and biological sex are not the same, they are often perceived that way and on things like this perception is really important to consider.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Taffin

[Alex Kintner]

36 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said:

I suffered domestic violence from my ex due to her past experiences of the same kind and prescription drugs. It's not just men that need made aware!

Sorry to hear that CBH. Domestic violence is unacceptable regardless of the gender of the perpetrator or victim.

 

The vast, vast majority of abuse is perpetrated by men which is why it’s the focus of the White Ribbon campaign.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Domestic violence is over whelming committed by men against women. It can be physical , emotional or psychotical. Many survivors of DV consider psychological abuse the worse kind with gaslighting  and coercive control being its main themes.  I also like the term " intimate terrorism" when describing DV as its quite a secretive and intimate thing between two people which their friends or family can be oblivious too. its so insidious. 

 

It can also happen in gay relationships and it can actually be more violent as its two men . The victim may fight back physically and put themselves at more harm and risk  Alcohol intake can fuel this kind of dysfunctional relationship and the shame and taboo of being a DV victim sometimes prevents those victims from seeking help.   

 

Its a horrible crime really and needs tackled. Men ( who are the main abusers) need to learn from an early age its not acceptable. 

[Alex Kintner]

39 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Sorry to hear that, it's completely unacceptable regardless of gender imo. I also think viewing it through a lens of gender risks making male victims feel emasculated which is a total nonsense. Equally I do recognise the point of the campaign that regardless of your own views on gender, people tend to box people up into stereotypes that include the following:

 

Men - physically strong, aggressive 

Women - physically weak, passive 

 

I think most people would say that's a fallacy (at least in part/it's more complex than that as they blur the clear distinction between sex and socially constructed gender 'norms') but sadly as a male, I'll be ascribed the gender norms associated with that and as such should recognise how I may be perceived by others who still cling onto those beliefs.

 

Outdated and divisive? Imo, yes. But we are where we are I suppose.

 

So whilst I don't entirely agree with the way it's been packaged up, I am completely agreed with the sentiment intended of the campaign as in a roundabout way it shines a light that whilst gender and biological sex are not the same, they are often perceived that way and on things like this perception is really important to consider.

 

Agree. I’m part of a local authority committee which we’ve renamed from the Violence Against Women and Girls Partnership to the Gender Based Violence Partnership as we feel it’s important to recognise that not all victims are female and not all perpetrators are male (though the vast, vast majority are). The definition of GBV is “violence directed against a person because of that person's gender or violence that affects persons of a particular gender disproportionately” and it’s a much better term imo.

 

The comments you make about stereotypes are absolutely bang on the money. So much of the education that we’re doing in schools, starting at nursery level upwards, is about challenging the harmful gender stereotypes you mention and reinforcing the importance of gender equality.
 

Sadly, the stats about domestic abuse haven’t got any better over the past decades despite vast amounts of money being thrown at media campaigns. For me there’s only two things that will make a real difference:

 

1. Men taking ownership of the problem and realising they are also the solution 

2. A strong focus on creating respectful children and young people who understand healthy relationships and who challenge harmful gender stereotypes. Those young people then grow up into respectful adults who are less likely to become domestic abusers. 
 

The work in schools has really taken off in the last few years and I hope in ten years time the statistics have improved. 🤞🏻

Edited November 26, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Domestic violence is over whelming committed by men against women. It can be physical , emotional or psychotical. Many survivors of DV consider psychological abuse the worse kind with gaslighting  and coercive control being its main themes.  I also like the term " intimate terrorism" when describing DV as its quite a secretive and intimate thing between two people which their friends or family can be oblivious too. its so insidious. 

 

It can also happen in gay relationships and it can actually be more violent as its two men . The victim may fight back physically and put themselves at more harm and risk  Alcohol intake can fuel this kind of dysfunctional relationship and the shame and taboo of being a DV victim sometimes prevents those victims from seeking help.   

 

Its a horrible crime really and needs tackled. Men ( who are the main abusers) need to learn from an early age its not acceptable. 

 

 

[Taffin]

29 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Agree. I’m part of a local authority committee which we’ve renamed from the Violence Against Women and Girls Partnership to the Gender Based Violence Partnership as we feel it’s important to recognise that not all victims are female and not all perpetrators are male (though the vast, vast majority are). The definition of GBV is “violence directed against a person because of that person's gender or violence that affects persons of a particular gender disproportionately” and it’s a much better term imo.

 

The comments you make about stereotypes are absolutely bang on the money. So much of the education that we’re doing in schools, starting at nursery level upwards, is about challenging the harmful gender stereotypes you mention and reinforcing the importance of gender equality.
 

Sadly, the stats about domestic abuse haven’t got any better over the past decades despite vast amounts of money being thrown at media campaigns. For me there’s only two things that will make a real difference:

 

1. Men taking ownership of the problem and realising they are also the solution 

2. A strong focus on creating respectful children and young people who understand healthy relationships and who challenge harmful gender stereotypes. Those young people then grow up into respectful adults who are less likely to become domestic abusers. 
 

The work in schools has really taken off in the last few years and I hope in ten years time the statistics have improved. 🤞🏻

 

 

Great work and hats off to you for the work you're doing.

 

I'm very lucky that both in my childhood home and now in my own relationship the female has been professionally more successful than the male (my dad and me) but not only that also my mum and my partner are incredibly strong, independent women mentally and physically. I've never been in an environment in my home life that's perpetuated the sort of norms I mentioned above...but it's not enough to say 'well I don't think like that, so it's not my problem' which I think your renaming of the committee and how you referred to it in your OP really hit home to me 👍👍

 

You know you're doing good work when you've got yourself, @jonesy, @JamesM48and I all in broad agreement 😂😂

Edited November 26, 2021 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Great work and hats off to you for the work you're doing.

 

I'm very lucky that both in my childhood home and now in my own relationship the female has been professionally more successful than the male (my dad and me) but not only that also my mum and my partner are incredibly strong, independent women mentally and physically. I've never been in an environment in my home life that's perpetuated the sort of norms I mentioned above...but it's not enough to say 'well I don't think like that, so it's not my problem' which I think your renaming of the committee and how you referred to it in your OP really hit home to me 👍👍

 

You know you're doing good work when you've got yourself, @jonesy, @JamesM48and I all in broad agreement 😂😂

Yes it really does stem from the home environment when one is a child. My parents were respectful of each other. They argued now and then but were never violent in their words or actions. it was a harmonious upbringing really in that respect where males and females were treated as equals.  

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Great work and hats off to you for the work you're doing.

 

I'm very lucky that both in my childhood home and now in my own relationship the female has been professionally more successful than the male (my dad and me) but not only that also my mum and my partner are incredibly strong, independent women mentally and physically. I've never been in an environment in my home life that's perpetuated the sort of norms I mentioned above...but it's not enough to say 'well I don't think like that, so it's not my problem' which I think your renaming of the committee and how you referred to it in your OP really hit home to me 👍👍

 

You know you're doing good work when you've got yourself, @jonesy, @JamesM48and I all in broad agreement 😂😂

Thanks Taffin.

 

I’m glad it’s an issue that brings together people who disagree on other issues. It can only be successfully tackled if it isn’t politicised or used with an agenda. I’ll admit to having a tear in my eye when the DA Bill was passed and every single MSP rose as one to give a standing ovation ❤️

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes it really does stem from the home environment when one is a child. My parents were respectful of each other. They argued now and then but were never violent in their words or actions. it was a harmonious upbringing really in that respect where males and females were treated as equals.  

Childhood experiences are definitely a key factor and children who witness DA are more likely to go on and become either perpetrators or victims. However it’s also important to recognise that a child from a completely happy home can go on to become an abuser due to the experiences they have in school, sports clubs, peer groups in terms of unhealthy gender stereotypes.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Childhood experiences are definitely a key factor and children who witness DA are more likely to go on and become either perpetrators or victims. However it’s also important to recognise that a child from a completely happy home can go on to become an abuser due to the experiences they have in school, sports clubs, peer groups in terms of unhealthy gender stereotypes.

Yes that is true too. Children can have external influences outwith their home which can impact on their view of women. Ive did quite a lot of DV training and its been of great interest. DV can also be an  in middle class families . Its not a class issue as such. That's a dangerous myth .

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes that is true too. Children can have external influences outwith their home which can impact on their view of women. Ive did quite a lot of DV training and its been of great interest. DV can also be an  in middle class families . Its not a class issue as such. That's a dangerous myth .

Yeah agree it’s a dangerous myth. Domestic abuse knows no class boundaries.

[Lone Striker]

5 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Childhood experiences are definitely a key factor and children who witness DA are more likely to go on and become either perpetrators or victims. However it’s also important to recognise that a child from a completely happy home can go on to become an abuser due to the experiences they have in school, sports clubs, peer groups in terms of unhealthy gender stereotypes.

Well done on raising this, and the posts on here make interesting reading. 👍

 

I've long believed that  a key  factor in DA is the complete  inability or unwillingness of perpetrators to recognise any failing or flaw in their own personality make-up & thought process.   

 

In the eyes of a perpetrator, its always the other person's failings which are the cause of him  being verbally and/or physically abusive. 

 

As you've mentioned, hopefully some clever educational changes at an early age can teach children the concept of continual self-assessment of their beliefs & behaviours throughout their lives.   Especially in the realm of personal relationships.

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, Lone Striker said:

Well done on raising this, and the posts on here make interesting reading. 👍

 

I've long believed that  a key  factor in DA is the complete  inability or unwillingness of perpetrators to recognise any failing or flaw in their own personality make-up & thought process.   

 

In the eyes of a perpetrator, its always the other person's failings which are the cause of him  being verbally and/or physically abusive. 

 

As you've mentioned, hopefully some clever educational changes at an early age can teach children the concept of continual self-assessment of their beliefs & behaviours throughout their lives.   Especially in the realm of personal relationships.

 

 

Definitely👍🏻 At nursery and primary school level it’s about equality, respect and challenging stereotypes and then it develops at secondary school into understanding healthy relationships, consent and sexual violence. Little or nothing like that when I was at school and that’s part of why domestic abuse is still so prevalent today.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Well done on raising this, and the posts on here make interesting reading. 👍

 

I've long believed that  a key  factor in DA is the complete  inability or unwillingness of perpetrators to recognise any failing or flaw in their own personality make-up & thought process.   

 

In the eyes of a perpetrator, its always the other person's failings which are the cause of him  being verbally and/or physically abusive. 

 

As you've mentioned, hopefully some clever educational changes at an early age can teach children the concept of continual self-assessment of their beliefs & behaviours throughout their lives.   Especially in the realm of personal relationships.

 

 

Thats why i like the term " fragile male toxicity". it says it all really. It needs to be challenged 

[¼½¾]

@Alex Kintner  Nice one. I was looking at the link you posted and noticed that though they call themselves White Ribbon UK, Scotland, and I think Northern Ireland too, have their own White Ribbon campaigns. This is the Scottish site.  https://www.whiteribbonscotland.org.uk/

 

I attended a Domestic Abuse course, run by the police and Woman's Aid, through work a while back and some of the stories told were absolutely harrowing. I was the only male there and spent a good deal of time looking at my shoes, it was very uncomfortable.

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Lemongrab said:

@Alex Kintner  Nice one. I was looking at the link you posted and noticed that though they call themselves White Ribbon UK, Scotland, and I think Northern Ireland too, have their own White Ribbon campaigns. This is the Scottish site.  https://www.whiteribbonscotland.org.uk/

 

I attended a Domestic Abuse course, run by the police and Woman's Aid, through work a while back and some of the stories told were absolutely harrowing. I was the only male there and spent a good deal of time looking at my shoes, it was very uncomfortable.

Cheers Lem. The work Women’s Aid do is incredible. 👍🏻

Edited November 26, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[EH11_2NL]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Domestic violence is over whelming committed by men against women. It can be physical , emotional or psychotical. Many survivors of DV consider psychological abuse the worse kind with gaslighting  and coercive control being its main themes.  I also like the term " intimate terrorism" when describing DV as its quite a secretive and intimate thing between two people which their friends or family can be oblivious too. its so insidious. 

 

It can also happen in gay relationships and it can actually be more violent as its two men . The victim may fight back physically and put themselves at more harm and risk  Alcohol intake can fuel this kind of dysfunctional relationship and the shame and taboo of being a DV victim sometimes prevents those victims from seeking help.   

 

Its a horrible crime really and needs tackled. Men ( who are the main abusers) need to learn from an early age its not acceptable. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-59427833

 

4 teenage scumbags between 13 and 15. Too late for this lot already.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, EH11_2NL said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-59427833

 

4 teenage scumbags between 13 and 15. Too late for this lot already.

Sadly you may be correct unless there is intensive therapy involved in their punishment as well as jail time obviously. 

[Alex Kintner]

19 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-59427833

 

4 teenage scumbags between 13 and 15. Too late for this lot already.

Just awful 😞

[Lone Striker]

Sounds like this may have been an extreme and tragic example of the horrifying stories now getting publicity about rape & sex assaults  in schools & colleges by groups of boys.     This girl was only   12   !!             

[Ulysses]

On 25/11/2021 at 13:36, Alex Kintner said:

Today is White Ribbon day and the first of the annual 16 Days of Action across the world to raise awareness of gender based violence.

 

I wanted to make the good people of Kickback aware of the White Ribbon pledge. The key message behind White Ribbon is recognising that it’s really only men who can make the difference in reducing and hopefully one day eradicating gender based violence.

It takes 30 seconds to sign up here https://www.whiteribbon.org.uk/promise and pledge that: “I will never commit, excuse or remain silent about violence against women.” 
 

Cheers JKB and please spread the word 👍🏻

 

 

Fair play to you for raising this and opening up a discussion on JKB.  I want to add my voice in support of the point you made that while domestic violence and abuse is endured by both men and women, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of such abuse is carried out by men.

 

I was also struck by this statistic that you mentioned:

15 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

Approximately 400 UK women a year who attend hospital with injuries caused by domestic violence go on to commit suicide within six months 😞

 

 

 

That's higher - quite a lot higher - than the number of women who are murdered each year in the UK.

 

Gach rath ar do chuid oibre; best of luck with your work.

[Alex Kintner]

3 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Fair play to you for raising this and opening up a discussion on JKB.  I want to add my voice in support of the point you made that while domestic violence and abuse is endured by both men and women, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of such abuse is carried out by men.

 

I was also struck by this statistic that you mentioned:

 

That's higher - quite a lot higher - than the number of women who are murdered each year in the UK.

 

Gach rath ar do chuid oibre; best of luck with your work.

Cheers Uly 👍🏻

[Alex Kintner]

In the UK, a woman is killed by a man every three days. The majority of those killings are by a current or ex-partner.

[Alex Kintner]

[Alex]

42 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Thanks for committing to raising this on here for the 16 days and the other work you do.

Presumably these figures cover all ages?

[Alex Kintner]

8 hours ago, Alex said:

Thanks for committing to raising this on here for the 16 days and the other work you do.

Presumably these figures cover all ages?

Thanks👍🏻
 

Yes it covers all ages and includes domestic violence femicides where a female is killed by their son, brother, father etc. The majority involve ‘romantic’ partners but domestic violence has other victims too.

[Alex Kintner]

1 in 40 women have been victim of a rape or attempted rape.

[Boab]

Maybe football here can follow leagues like Serie A in Italy to raise awareness ?

All players this weekend sporting a red stripe on their cheeks. Been doing it for the last few seasons. 

What better place than a football stadium to highlight it !

[Alex Kintner]

 

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

Maybe football here can follow leagues like Serie A in Italy to raise awareness ?

All players this weekend sporting a red stripe on their cheeks. Been doing it for the last few seasons. 

What better place than a football stadium to highlight it !

We used the Livi vs Rangers game yesterday to raise awareness and our game against Livi next week will also be used 👍🏻

[Boab]

11 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

 

We used the Livi vs Rangers game yesterday to raise awareness and our game against Livi next week will also be used 👍🏻

👍

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

1 in 40 women have been victim of a rape or attempted rape.

 

I'd have my doubts that figure.  I find it hard to believe that it's only 2.5%, to be honest.

 

EDIT: That's not to complain about the work you're doing to publicise the information or to doubt your sources; it's that I genuinely think a higher percentage of women have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and if you use a broader definition of sexual assault and aggression I'd say the figure is very much higher.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Ulysses

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'd have my doubts that figure.  I find it hard to believe that it's only 2.5%, to be honest.

 

EDIT: That's not to complain about the work you're doing to publicise the information or to doubt your sources; it's that I genuinely think a higher percentage of women have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and if you use a broader definition of sexual assault and aggression I'd say the figure is very much higher.

That’s in the last year. Apologies if that wasn’t clear. If we were talking lifetime I think it would be closer to 20%

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

That’s in the last year. Apologies if that wasn’t clear. If we were talking lifetime I think it would be closer to 20%

 

Thanks.  ****ing hell.

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

Thanks.  ****ing hell.

Yeah it’s brutal. It’s 1 in 10 in the last year if you widen it to sexual assault. That’s when it really starts to hit home. If we go on to our FB friends list or even just go through the contacts on our phones and think on average 1 in 10 of those women were victims of a sexual assault this past year 🥺

[Alex Kintner]

Domestic Abuse is the leading cause of homelessness among UK women.

[milky_26]

19 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

 

We used the Livi vs Rangers game yesterday to raise awareness and our game against Livi next week will also be used 👍🏻

it would be good if there was say a weekend each year that all matches had a display like how they did with things like show racism the red card. you could also ask the clubs to put the white ribbon on a special strip or maybe have special training tops to try and help highlight it

[Alex Kintner]

32 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

it would be good if there was say a weekend each year that all matches had a display like how they did with things like show racism the red card. you could also ask the clubs to put the white ribbon on a special strip or maybe have special training tops to try and help highlight it

I’d hope that most, if not all, local authorities are doing some awareness raising at matches during the 16 days. Down south too hopefully 🤞🏻

[Spellczech]

"Gender Based Violence" makes it sound like men are hitting women because they are women. I doubt this is the case...Couples argue. I argue with my wife all the time, but I've never hit her or any other woman. I was brought up by parents who said boys do not hit girls. I think we have to try to understand that some people have no grounding of this sort at all...If I was a woman, I would spend the "get to know you phase" early days of a relationship asking about the background of prospective partners. Before I get castigated for "victim blaming" I'll quickly add that too many people of both sexes dive into relationships without a care. It is no coincidence that people from abusive homes end up living in abusive homes.

[Alex Kintner]

8 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

If I was a woman, I would spend the "get to know you phase" early days of a relationship asking about the background of prospective partners. Before I get castigated for "victim blaming" I'll quickly add that too many people of both sexes dive into relationships without a care. 

At least you’ve got the insight to realise you’re victim blaming. I suppose that’s something I guess. 🙄

Edited November 30, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

At least you’ve got the insight to realise you’re victim blaming. I suppose that’s something I guess. 🙄

Whereas you don't have the insight to realise you've missed the point...

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Whereas you don't have the insight to realise you've missed the point...

Your point was that women should do some research into their partner to make sure they aren’t abusive. That’s putting the onus and responsibility onto the woman. Am I wrong?

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Your point was that women should do some research into their partner to make sure they aren’t abusive. That’s putting the onus and responsibility onto the woman. Am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong. I said that ALL people should try to get to properly know their prospective partner... It wasn't difficult. It was only 1 flipping paragraph - what you must be like with some of the book-writers on here!?