TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[DH1986]

8 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

 

Our crowds have risen in recent years, and there's absolutely nothing to suggest they will not continue to do so. I hope that the people who are in charge of these things at the club are not as short sighted.

50 years since we last averaged over 20k and in times of great austerity you want to spunk millions on something that we don’t need.

 

You need a reality check.

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, Beast Boy said:

 

There's all sorts of ways of getting around that, even with buildings that are listed higher than the old school. Take the old GPO for example. They literally built an entire new builing inside the facade shell of the old one:

https://www.building.co.uk/focus/neat-trick/3032969.article

 

Or the changing face of the Edinburgh Meat Market, where they demolished everything except the arched entrance and moved it a bit further down the street:

https://canmore.org.uk/site/332673/edinburgh-fountainbridge-edinburgh-meat-market-archway?display=image

 

 

 

In Glasgow, they are build two big office blocks in a space but one side is still keeping the old front to keep it in line with how the street looks

 

[Mr Brightside]

7 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

50 years since we last averaged over 20k and in times of great austerity you want to spunk millions on something that we don’t need.

 

You need a reality check.

We could secure the land for something  between 1-2 years of FOH contributions. I think this is exactly the type of thing we should invest in. 
In less than 10 years we could regret not having the space to further redevelop Tynie.

[Hackney Hearts]

5 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

50 years since we last averaged over 20k and in times of great austerity you want to spunk millions on something that we don’t need.

 

It's a fair point, but it's extremely hard to average over 20k when it's been 25 years+ since the stadium capacity was that high.

[Libertarian]

14 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

50 years since we last averaged over 20k and in times of great austerity you want to spunk millions on something that we don’t need.

 

You need a reality check.

It's interesting that when we played at Murrayfield a few years ago we had 26,000 against Aberdeen and 36,000 against Rangers. This would suggest to me that Tynecastle's current capacity is probably too small. I also think that it's highly likely that within a decade cross border competitions and possibly leagues will be commonplace and that is likely to mean a much more attractive product to spectators, i.e. playing more attractive opposition and not playing teams at least 4 times a season. You also have to remember that Edinburgh's population is growing fast and is predicted to overtake Glasgow by 2037 which is only 17 years away. If we could increase the capacity of Tynecastle by purchasing this plot we should be looking at that seriously. 

[AndyNic]

Hopefully after all the refunds and players wages with no income for a year they'll have a spare £3m to buy the land and expand Tynecastle to circa 30k capacity. 

 

Saying that, pocket change for Ann and her friends and benefactors.

 

Get it bought. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by AndyNic

[David Black]

1 hour ago, Beast Boy said:

 

There's all sorts of ways of getting around that, even with buildings that are listed higher than the old school. Take the old GPO for example. They literally built an entire new builing inside the facade shell of the old one:

https://www.building.co.uk/focus/neat-trick/3032969.article

 

Or the changing face of the Edinburgh Meat Market, where they demolished everything except the arched entrance and moved it a bit further down the street:

https://canmore.org.uk/site/332673/edinburgh-fountainbridge-edinburgh-meat-market-archway?display=image

 

 

A city I know and love is Malaga and what they have done with the massive amount of rebuilding work is they keep the exterior and in many cases demolish the interior and rebuild there. The result some stunning buildings with modern amenities/offices behind. 

[Jambo-Fox]

13 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

Hopefully after all the refunds and players wages with no income for a year they'll have a spare £3m to buy the land and expand Tynecastle to circa 30k capacity. 

 

Saying that, pocket change for Ann and her friends and benefactors.

 

Get it bought. 

Clearly you know something! Is £3 million the actual quoted sale price??

 

I’d be surprised if it was sold for that much 

[AndyNic]

32 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Clearly you know something! Is £3 million the actual quoted sale price??

 

I’d be surprised if it was sold for that much 

 

I genuinely don't know anything (about this situation)

[OTT]

17 hours ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

I like the idea of a larger School End stand  with Hospitality facilities, so that the Directors of scum Clubs have the opportunity to sit,  in amongst their own.

Think as well  Health and Safety restrictions will be greatly diminished,  once  we (regrettably) leave the EEC, by the current UK government.

 

 

 

 

Like it, can source the pies from Hibs. 'Mince and rat shite pie Mr Lawwell?'

[OTT]

7 hours ago, DH1986 said:

50 years since we last averaged over 20k and in times of great austerity you want to spunk millions on something that we don’t need.

 

You need a reality check.

 

I think thats a bit of a disingenuous way to look at it. 

 

We've been curbed by being stuck in a 17k seater stadium for the better part of 25 years. Like any team, when we're doing well our attendances will go up, when we do shite they will go down. Its just what happens. Personally, think we should build with the intention of capitalising on the boom times. Edinburgh is a big city that is continuing to expand, giving the city a club which is large enough to hold its own on the field will draw people in. 

 

I'm looking at Celtic/Rangers/Hibs all being sell outs, thats 6/18, Aberdeen bring a solid away crowd too so you're probably talking close to a capacity crowd. Potential for more hospitality, boost in tickets should mean better players/ keeping our best for longer which in turn ends with cup success and european qualification. Again, European nights are likely sell outs too. 

 

My point is, that we don't need to be selling out every game. We need to make sure that we have the supply to satisfy the demand of the AAA fixtures. The way Scottish football works it means there are a lot of these so we should factor that into our planning. 

 

Part of the reason I bought into the foundations ideas was to ensure that the club would have the funds and freedom to do things like this. Subsidising the team was never something I was keen on. We need to look at ways of increasing our turnover and profits. Allowing ourselves to be landlocked because short term thinking dictates we're okay right now isn't encouraging at all. 

[Beast Boy]

18 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I think thats a bit of a disingenuous way to look at it. 

 

We've been curbed by being stuck in a 17k seater stadium for the better part of 25 years. Like any team, when we're doing well our attendances will go up, when we do shite they will go down. Its just what happens. Personally, think we should build with the intention of capitalising on the boom times. Edinburgh is a big city that is continuing to expand, giving the city a club which is large enough to hold its own on the field will draw people in. 

 

I'm looking at Celtic/Rangers/Hibs all being sell outs, thats 6/18, Aberdeen bring a solid away crowd too so you're probably talking close to a capacity crowd. Potential for more hospitality, boost in tickets should mean better players/ keeping our best for longer which in turn ends with cup success and european qualification. Again, European nights are likely sell outs too. 

 

My point is, that we don't need to be selling out every game. We need to make sure that we have the supply to satisfy the demand of the AAA fixtures. The way Scottish football works it means there are a lot of these so we should factor that into our planning. 

 

Part of the reason I bought into the foundations ideas was to ensure that the club would have the funds and freedom to do things like this. Subsidising the team was never something I was keen on. We need to look at ways of increasing our turnover and profits. Allowing ourselves to be landlocked because short term thinking dictates we're okay right now isn't encouraging at all. 

Same song sheet as me. The last paragraph in particular. 👍

Edited September 24, 2020 by Beast Boy

[sac]

13 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I think thats a bit of a disingenuous way to look at it. 

 

We've been curbed by being stuck in a 17k seater stadium for the better part of 25 years. Like any team, when we're doing well our attendances will go up, when we do shite they will go down. Its just what happens. Personally, think we should build with the intention of capitalising on the boom times. Edinburgh is a big city that is continuing to expand, giving the city a club which is large enough to hold its own on the field will draw people in. 

 

I'm looking at Celtic/Rangers/Hibs all being sell outs, thats 6/18, Aberdeen bring a solid away crowd too so you're probably talking close to a capacity crowd. Potential for more hospitality, boost in tickets should mean better players/ keeping our best for longer which in turn ends with cup success and european qualification. Again, European nights are likely sell outs too. 

 

My point is, that we don't need to be selling out every game. We need to make sure that we have the supply to satisfy the demand of the AAA fixtures. The way Scottish football works it means there are a lot of these so we should factor that into our planning. 

 

Part of the reason I bought into the foundations ideas was to ensure that the club would have the funds and freedom to do things like this. Subsidising the team was never something I was keen on. We need to look at ways of increasing our turnover and profits. Allowing ourselves to be landlocked because short term thinking dictates we're okay right now isn't encouraging at all. 

population of Edinburgh & the Lothians is predicted to surpass Glasgow by the year 2037. Securing any additional land now that can facilitate future development or increased capacity would be a wise investment.

[johnking123]

We should use some of the Hickey funds for this.

[23851]

Surely if this purchase is a goer we take out a mortgage and spread the cost over a number of years. We don’t need to spend whatever the cost is all at once.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, 23851 said:

Surely if this purchase is a goer we take out a mortgage and spread the cost over a number of years. We don’t need to spend whatever the cost is all at once.

Or possibly a benefactor’s  generosity.

[Chaps]

Sometimes have to wonder what’s planet fans live on  

[jambo-in-furness]

18 minutes ago, Chaps said:

Sometimes have to wonder what’s planet fans live on  

 

or what Skool they went to🤪

[Beast Boy]

26 minutes ago, Chaps said:

Sometimes have to wonder what’s planet fans live on  

On my planet some benefactors have put somewhere between £6-10m in to our new stand and stadium redevelopment, to keep us in Gorgie. Some land that is bang up against our stadium has come up for sale, and the 25 year life expectancy of the closest stand and it’s two neighbours have either elapsed or will be elapsing soon. In that world, it seems sensible to consider whether or not it might be an idea to look at securing that land.

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Beast Boy said:

On my planet some benefactors have put somewhere between £6-10m in to our new stand and stadium redevelopment, to keep us in Gorgie. Some land that is bang up against our stadium has come up for sale, and the 25 year life expectancy of the closest stand and it’s two neighbours have either elapsed or will be elapsing soon. In that world, it seems sensible to consider whether or not it might be an idea to look at securing that land.

Where did the 25 years life expectancy com from? Think that was a hibs.net urban myth. 

[Craig_]

Would be one hell of a job expanding the stadium into this area. Would need to move our lovely new £20m stand back into the plaza for a start, as well as moving the Roseburn back (unless the plan was for one of these hideous 'big stands at the ends' grounds, Fir Park for example).

 

[davemclaren]

Just now, Craig_ said:

Would be one hell of a job expanding the stadium into this area. Would need to move our lovely new £20m stand back into the plaza for a start, as well as moving the Roseburn back (unless the plan was for one of these hideous 'big stands at the ends' grounds, Fir Park for example).

 

Correct. The pitch at the side is more important. 😎

[Mr Brightside]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Where did the 25 years life expectancy com from? Think that was a hibs.net urban myth. 

I would say that a 25 year design life would be reasonable for a football stand, but this just means that some things might show signs of wear and need replaced at this time. This doesn’t mean the stand will fall down, be unsafe or need replaced after 25 years, but you couldn’t hold the contractor or designer liable after this time.

 

I would expect other teams stands have a similar design life and it’s nothing unusual.

[davemclaren]

16 minutes ago, Mr Brightside said:

I would say that a 25 year design life would be reasonable for a football stand, but this just means that some things might show signs of wear and need replaced at this time. This doesn’t mean the stand will fall down, be unsafe or need replaced after 25 years, but you couldn’t hold the contractor or designer liable after this time.

 

I would expect other teams stands have a similar design life and it’s nothing unusual.

Fair enough. The Wheatfield stand is 26 years old now and I expect it to see me out. 😎

[Unknown user]

38 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Where did the 25 years life expectancy com from? Think that was a hibs.net urban myth. 

It was what the club said at the time. I've never found the quote again but I remember thinking it was a pretty short lifespan, and too many other people remember it for it to be just brain fart. 

[Beast Boy]

53 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Where did the 25 years life expectancy com from? Think that was a hibs.net urban myth. 

Was that not the guide life expectancy? Obviously they are not exactly in bad nick however. Maybe I picked that up wrong from somewhere.

[tian447]

On 24/09/2020 at 09:45, Beast Boy said:

 

There's all sorts of ways of getting around that, even with buildings that are listed higher than the old school. Take the old GPO for example. They literally built an entire new builing inside the facade shell of the old one:

https://www.building.co.uk/focus/neat-trick/3032969.article

 

 

 

 

 

 

Off topic a wee bit, but that looks absolutely brilliant.  A great way of keeping a building with some character, and modernising it.

 

Should definitely be the way forward, instead of throwing up soulless concrete and glass fronted behemoths.  

[SectionFJambo]

Not a chance the stands have a 25 year life span. Possibly at worst at that point they may start needing some work or refurbishment but that is pretty common. Those costs will dwarf replacement.

 

I'm not really sure most fans are living in the real world. The only remote thing that land could offer a worthwhile investment would be as a training ground and I cannot see us having the money (or benefactor support) to find the 8 figures that would require to become true. We haven't even finished the current stand. That is before we get on to practicalities of whether that is a good site for a training ground. I'd have my doubts.  It would probably take us 25-30 years to justify the initial costs over rent by which time it would probably not be far off end of life.

[Section Q]

On 21/09/2020 at 22:24, o1djambo said:

At the last Foh AGM Mrs Budge stated that an ambition is to build our own training park and facilities. The Oriam costs the club £500,000 per annum. A task for the Foh with the school site in mind? 

£500k pa would be more than enough to service a loan for the old school land but doubt if it's big enough to accommodate training facilities. It's more likely the distillery might want more land.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Section Q

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 hours ago, Craig_ said:

Would be one hell of a job expanding the stadium into this area. Would need to move our lovely new £20m stand back into the plaza for a start, as well as moving the Roseburn back (unless the plan was for one of these hideous 'big stands at the ends' grounds, Fir Park for example).

 

 

If we don't get it, we're in an awful position

 

Distillery won't be there forever, we're going to need at least some of that land too

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, tian447 said:

 

Off topic a wee bit, but that looks absolutely brilliant.  A great way of keeping a building with some character, and modernising it.

 

Should definitely be the way forward, instead of throwing up soulless concrete and glass fronted behemoths.  

If you ever pass it, take a wee look inside. There’s a small gap and then literally a brand new building sitting inside it like a Russian Doll. I actually went to a rave there a few weeks before they tore the innards out... weird seeing it like that.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

Me and my Brother have our eyes on this , so stay out of it.

McLeod Street is the actual issue on the redevelopment side

Edited September 29, 2020 by Gorgie Boot boy

[Beast Boy]

4 hours ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Me and my Brother have our eyes on this , so stay out of it.

McLeod Street is the actual issue on the redevelopment side

... Ann... ?

 

[Craig_]

On 25/09/2020 at 13:36, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

If we don't get it, we're in an awful position

 

Distillery won't be there forever, we're going to need at least some of that land too

 

Not sure where this idea of the distillery moving has come from. There's a good few craft malt distilleries opened up in the last few years, and they tend to cost £5-10m to open. Now imagine building a 60m LPA continuous grain distillery, and you're probably looking  at somewhere in the region of £50m+. Can't see the economic sense of that at all. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

9 hours ago, Beast Boy said:

... Ann... ?

 

Anne isn't even a benefactor. No idea how much she has put into Hearts from her purse.

Tam is the name on this.

[OTT]

9 hours ago, Craig_ said:

 

Not sure where this idea of the distillery moving has come from. There's a good few craft malt distilleries opened up in the last few years, and they tend to cost £5-10m to open. Now imagine building a 60m LPA continuous grain distillery, and you're probably looking  at somewhere in the region of £50m+. Can't see the economic sense of that at all. 

 

Perhaps its less about that and more about the worth of the land it sits on. I'm not suggesting its likely to happen any time soon, but Edinburgh land prices must be continually going up given the state of house prices. You could build a lot of flats on that land. 

 

Modern facilities may also be a factor to consider. The buildings there are old, so perhaps maintenance is an issue. Then, with it being a built up area, anything potentially flammable might not be possible. Whereas if they were out by the bypass or anywhere on the outskirts, that isn't likely to be a problem. Better facilities that can do more may actually create jobs!

 

Admittedly, its unlikely but should be something we jump on if it does happen.  

[CJGJ]

No move is going to happen and no sale of land.

 

That is from the top of the local business

 

God knows how/why this was resurrected on JKB

[SectionFJambo]

2 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

No move is going to happen and no sale of land.

 

That is from the top of the local business

 

God knows how/why this was resurrected on JKB

 

Because the land is being marketed......

[Beast Boy]

7 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

No move is going to happen and no sale of land.

 

That is from the top of the local business

 

God knows how/why this was resurrected on JKB

 

4 minutes ago, SectionFJambo said:

 

Because the land is being marketed......

Exactly!

[Jack Torrance]

"Buy land, they're not making it anymore"

 - Mark Twain

[jamboinglasgow]

https://gorgiedalrycc.org.uk/2021/02/24/planning-update-proposal-of-application-notice-for-former-tynecastle-high-school-mcleod-street/

 

The owners of the property are submitting a planning application to turn it into student accomdation. This would have implications of future development of Tynecastle.

[heartsfc_fan]

More student accommodation. Just what Edinburgh needs.

[jamboinglasgow]

3 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

More student accommodation. Just what Edinburgh needs.

 

its got out of control, its the same in Glasgow. I would love to know what makes them so attractive or lucrative for developers as surely to have so many put up can mean it brings a good amount int.

[Mister Dee]

This is insane. 
I sincerely hope that no more student accommodation can built in Edinburgh like this. 
I’d love the FOH acquire this for future developments. 

[deejtee]

instant new fans?

[Marty-man]

Who in their right mind would want to pay for digs, right next to the away end, with all the mouth-breathers from Ibrox and Parkhead, knocking back buckfast and pi$$ing in the streets?

Although, looking at it from a purely Jambo-centric point of view ... potential cluster of new fans??

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Would students really want to live there?

[Fraggle]

26 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

its got out of control, its the same in Glasgow. I would love to know what makes them so attractive or lucrative for developers as surely to have so many put up can mean it brings a good amount int.

In Edinburgh it's the Festival that makes it so appealing. Students are away home and room rates are through the roof! 

 

 

[1971fozzy]

Good for the local economy surely 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Fraggle]

Sounds like they want to keep the facade at some parts then knock the rest down and build modern design flats within the grounds. Surprised this would be allowed to happen with the issues at the distillery!?