TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[OTT]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

The developers sound like a parcel of rogues they are refusing to engage with the living rent reps and the community but have been lobbying and calling the councillors every day

 

May be Anderson will buy the site and use it for some thing that benefits the community

I wonder if some sort of deal could be done to divvy up the site between affordable social housing and space for a bigger roseburn. I could get behind social housing rather than more student crap. 

[wavydavy]

21 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

Category B listed building. They’ll likely have to keep the facade when developing into student flats. 
 

We wouldn’t get planning permission to pull down the buildings. Why are folk being obtuse to this?

 

There is a building just off Easter Raod that looks very similar to the old Tynecastle School and that was developed into flats a number of years ago.

 

As you say the extrerior facade had to be retained. In some ways that can actually save money on costs depending on the state of the building of course.

[OTT]

3 hours ago, washniklaw said:

Having read this thread over the past couple of day I think its really important that the student accommodation proposed for the old high school site is stalled. Truthfully, I believe we as a club are close to the position where we could purchase that site. We could redevelop with the community of Gorgie in mind rather than property developers looking at a fast buck from Student flats.

 

Strategically that sites offers us options. Pushing the school end back, extending the current stand, car parking options, better access points and exit to our 4 stands.  
 

With the clubs ethos we could partner with any number of companies to create something that benefits local people as well as the club.

 

The Wheatfield pitch would also be a target for purchase but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be the same time pressure.

Great post and a million times this. With the benefactors and their interest in social good, I think a better proposal could be put forward that benefits the club and community. 

[Bull's-eye]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

So the cost of living crisis isn't happening? Fuel and energy prices aren't through the roof? I don't know if you're aware but the few hundred quid it costs for a season ticket is a lot of money to some folk. There will be some fans that can't afford to go regularly at the best of times, maybe 1 or 2 games is all they can afford and look forward to. I think its a shame and a worry to lock these fans out because of capacity restrictions (the point of this thread). I think if you spoke to anyone at the club or any club really, they'd tell you that once someone stops going, getting them to start going again is difficult. 

 

The idea that not everyone can afford a season ticket isn't a controversial or a laughable point. 

 

I'm happy to see the club selling out, I think its great but I think if the same thing happens next season then I think the club needs to think about expansion to ensure walk ups are catered for too.

 

There's only one way to fill football stadiums and encourage new supporters that aren't brain washed by parents.

 

I'll let you work that out for yourself.

[johnnythejambo]

When Fergus McCann redeveloped Darkheid into a 60k capacity stadium in 1994 Celtic were only getting 30/40k per game. Sometimes you have to speculate and put the infrastructure in place so that you can reap the benefits. He was widely ridiculed at the time for building such a large capacity but after it was built they had 53k season ticket holders. Build it and they will come

[SUTOL]

5 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

No, we're talking a couple of hundred students vs tens of thousands of fans.

 

Also the students will be inside their flats, versus the thousands of fans outside in the stands. 

 

Same reasoning behind the new Tynecastle High School getting built. Though it is also a bit further from the tanks and is to an extent protected from a blast by the stadium. 

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

2 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

When Fergus McCann redeveloped Darkheid into a 60k capacity stadium in 1994 Celtic were only getting 30/40k per game. Sometimes you have to speculate and put the infrastructure in place so that you can reap the benefits. He was widely ridiculed at the time for building such a large capacity but after it was built they had 53k season ticket holders. Build it and they will come

 

Celtic had a much larger unmet demand than we have.  When we have a waiting list in the thousands for STs then we will know it is time to make changes.

 

Depressingly, Celtic believe Parkhead is not big enough any more and have ambitions to increase capacity again.

 

Even more depressingly, Celtic's own waiting list for STs is said to be substantial - it was reported at 17,000 in 2020.

 

[frankblack]

Why is this shitshow of a thread still running?

 

Expanding Tynie isn't cost effective.  When the demand exists its a new stadium or a big waiting list at Tynie.

 

I think I said this on page one or two.  Some Hibs troll started the thread.

Edited June 25, 2022 by frankblack

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Why is this shitshow of a thread still running?

 

Expanding Tynie isn't cost effective.  When the demand exists its a new stadium or a big waiting list at Tynie.

 

Because its an interesting topic to discuss. 

[frankblack]

Just now, OTT said:

 

Because its an interesting topic to discuss. 

 

No its bollocks like I said at the start of the thread.

 

What facts have changed from the first few pages?

[Nobreath]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

No its bollocks like I said at the start of the thread.

 

What facts have changed from the first few pages?

 

How often do you have to post in a thread that you're not interested in? 

[1971fozzy]

No matter what I never want to leave Tynecastle. If that means staying at 20k then I’m fine with that. After the shit we went through with Robinson and then Romanov I wake up grateful every day we are in Gorgie and never want to move

[OTT]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

No its bollocks like I said at the start of the thread.

 

What facts have changed from the first few pages?

15,500 season ticket holders is a pretty significant  (and ) change. 

 

We're on 27 pages because people are interested in talking about it. Broadly speaking it should be quite a positive and hopeful discussion as the club grows and succeeds  

 

I'm loving this thread because its not a one sided argument anymore, folk are seeing the need to get more capacity and thats bloody brilliant. 

 

Completely understand that a total sell out like this has only happened in Vlads first season so there is an element of wait and see for next season if it can be replicated but thats exciting. 

 

Skys the limit for the Jambos 😎

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Nobreath said:

 

How often do you have to post in a thread that you're not interested in? 

 

Not enough  apparently for stupid people.

The facts are that Tynie is at maximum capacity.  We arent expanding that significantly at any time due to its surroundings.

 

Deal with it.

[Herbert.]

3 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

No matter what I never want to leave Tynecastle. If that means staying at 20k then I’m fine with that. After the shit we went through with Robinson and then Romanov I wake up grateful every day we are in Gorgie and never want to move

 

 

I would support hearts anywhere, I don't really care about Gorgie as a area its a bit of a shithole tbh. The club has moved before so we can do it again. We just need to make sure it's not a barn on the outskirts of Edinburgh the new stadium would have to retain the features of Tynecastle such as the steep stands close to the pitch.

[kingantti1874]

15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Not enough  apparently for stupid people.

The facts are that Tynie is at maximum capacity.  We arent expanding that significantly at any time due to its surroundings.

 

Deal with it.

**** me, fans discuss their club on a football forum. What a disgrace. 😂

 

wheeshed your face . You won’t be telling anyone what they can and can’t discuss . Maybe forums aren’t for you! You don’t seem to get the point

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by kingantti1874

[frankblack]

39 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

 

 

I would support hearts anywhere, I don't really care about Gorgie as a area its a bit of a shithole tbh. The club has moved before so we can do it again. We just need to make sure it's not a barn on the outskirts of Edinburgh the new stadium would have to retain the features of Tynecastle such as the steep stands close to the pitch.

 

This.

 

Tynie is maxed out.  If we can grow the club we will have to move elsewhere.

 

Costs of buying the old school, brewery etc need to be appraised against city centre land values.  Which we couldn't afford.

Edited June 25, 2022 by frankblack

[kingantti1874]

18 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

This.

 

Tynie is maxed out.  If we can grow the club we will have to move elsewhere.

 

Costs of buying the old school, brewery etc need to be appraised against city centre land values.  Which we couldn't afford.

we could buy the pitch behind the wheatfield, bulldoze the current stands - spin 90ish degrees and rebuild it. 
 

not impossible by any means 
 

 

 

[jimmy the jambo]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

we could buy the pitch behind the wheatfield, bulldoze the current stands - spin 90ish degrees and rebuild it. 
 

not impossible by any means 
 

 

 

That’s what they done to Cardiff arms park /millennium stadium ( turned it around) ,technically we could just build 3 stands similar to the new main stand seeing we’ll have 30000 fans willing to watch the famous 🤪

[frankblack]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

we could buy the pitch behind the wheatfield, bulldoze the current stands - spin 90ish degrees and rebuild it. 
 

not impossible by any means 
 

 

 

 

At what cost?

[Different Class]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

we could buy the pitch behind the wheatfield, bulldoze the current stands - spin 90ish degrees and rebuild it. 
 

not impossible by any means 
 

 

 

 

 

Didn't realise our £20 million new stand was a temporary effort. Are we putting the club shop in the Gorgie/Mcleod tenements that are near enough becoming part of our stadium here?

[A_A wehatethehibs]

12 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

we could buy the pitch behind the wheatfield, bulldoze the current stands - spin 90ish degrees and rebuild it. 
 

not impossible by any means 
 

 

 

That is close to £100m mate If not more. 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

At what cost?

probably the same as buying a whole new site and building on it.  Maybe a bit less given we already own the majority of the land

[kingantti1874]

Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

That is close to £100m mate If not more. 

Yeah agreed -  not suggesting we will do it, Bu it’s possible .  
 

More likely imo that we remove the roof and the trusses and fill in the corners, possibly expand the wheat field by buying the pitch behind 20/30 million probably.  

 

Frank is right, there are no cheap options but natural to discuss these things when we are bouncing off the limit.  

[john thomas]

2 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

 

Celtic had a much larger unmet demand than we have.  When we have a waiting list in the thousands for STs then we will know it is time to make changes.

 

Depressingly, Celtic believe Parkhead is not big enough any more and have ambitions to increase capacity again.

 

Even more depressingly, Celtic's own waiting list for STs is said to be substantial - it was reported at 17,000 in 2020.

 

When Fergus came in Celtic had less than 10k ST holders .

Rangers had 40k+

Smart little , bunneted barstard

[Cade]

ah hink wi shud fill in the cornurz

 

[Nobreath]

2 minutes ago, john thomas said:

When Fergus came in Celtic had less than 10k ST holders .

Rangers had 40k+

Smart little , bunneted barstard

 

And the GFITW booed him at every opportunity.

[frankblack]

18 minutes ago, Different Class said:

 

 

Didn't realise our £20 million new stand was a temporary effort. Are we putting the club shop in the Gorgie/Mcleod tenements that are near enough becoming part of our stadium here?

 

Again.  Some serious straw clutching.

 

We would have to pay through the nose to get land around Tynie let alone rebuild the stadium.

[kingantti1874]

24 minutes ago, Different Class said:

 

 

Didn't realise our £20 million new stand was a temporary effort. Are we putting the club shop in the Gorgie/Mcleod tenements that are near enough becoming part of our stadium here?

Kinda missing the context and thus the point.

 

i don’t believe we will be going anywhere - however IF moving was on the table, then a complete re build will be as well. .

 

just to clarify, I don’t think that will be in the table at any point in the next 30 years 

[frankblack]

39 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Kinda missing the context and thus the point.

 

i don’t believe we will be going anywhere - however IF moving was on the table, then a complete re build will be as well. .

 

just to clarify, I don’t think that will be in the table at any point in the next 30 years 

 

I think a complete rebuild with land purchases around Tynie

would cost far more than to move and do a deal with other parties interested in investing in the area.

 

I also agree neither option is on the table short term.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I think a complete rebuild with land purchases around Tynie

would cost far more than to move and do a deal with other parties interested in investing in the area.

 

I also agree neither option is on the table short term.

i suspect we will have to wait a very long time to find out 👍🏻

[Watt-Zeefuik]

8 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

There is a building just off Easter Raod that looks very similar to the old Tynecastle School and that was developed into flats a number of years ago.

 

As you say the extrerior facade had to be retained. In some ways that can actually save money on costs depending on the state of the building of course.

 

Adaptive reuse often saves money as well as energy. You have to find someone who knows what their doing, but I wouldn't think it would be that hard to incorporate the school into a bigger plan.

 

 

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

Why is this shitshow of a thread still running?

 

Expanding Tynie isn't cost effective.  When the demand exists its a new stadium or a big waiting list at Tynie.

 

I think I said this on page one or two.  Some Hibs troll started the thread.

 

Expanding Tynie isn't currently affordable to Hearts. It is absolutely cost effective in the long run. Costs are likely to be £40-50k versus £80-100k for an equivalent stadium somewhere else, because we have a brand new main stand that has most of the expensive non-seat bits already finished.

 

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

That is close to £100m mate If not more. 

 

This is up there with the "It'll cost £150k each year to wash the windows" classic. It's absolutely not £100m. It's £50m at absolute most, and that would almost certainly take us well over 30k seats.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

19 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

 

 

 

This is up there with the "It'll cost £150k each year to wash the windows" classic. It's absolutely not £100m. It's £50m at absolute most, and that would almost certainly take us well over 30k seats.

Absolutely clueless about engineering- a 30k capacity stadium built from scratch. Including knocking down the brand new main stand. Buying land on 3 sides. A minimum of £100m. And that includes the bribery to required get planning consent as it would breach the light rules for circa 60-70 properties on the gorgie side. Exemption from those rules would be required. So possibly closer to 150m

 

£50m might buy you a 20k capacity so essentially spending £50m to rotate the same stadium 90 degrees 

[jamboinglasgow]

I dont know if it has been mentioned here already, but the planning application for the big screens has now been granted. So early next/this season (depending how you look at it) the club will install big screens at Tynecastle.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

19 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Absolutely clueless about engineering- a 30k capacity stadium built from scratch. Including knocking down the brand new main stand. Buying land on 3 sides. A minimum of £100m. And that includes the bribery to required get planning consent as it would breach the light rules for circa 60-70 properties on the gorgie side. Exemption from those rules would be required. So possibly closer to 150m

 

£50m might buy you a 20k capacity so essentially spending £50m to rotate the same stadium 90 degrees 

 

EDIT: Apologies, I didn't see that the original post advocated spinning it 90 degrees. That's my oversight. Putting my original reply in a spoiler. But whatever.

Spoiler

 

Planning is literally what my academic training is in, so I'll keep my own council on this.

 

You don't need to knock down the current main stand. You don't need to breach the light rules on the Gorgie side. You don't need to rotate it 90 degrees. That's just silly.

 

You need to deal with the COMAH issues with the highly concentrated ethanol at NBDC—20 years ago they asked for £1m to do that, so assume it's maybe 2-3x that now. You need to buy a bit of land that's currently the community pitch, which has a largely unused bit of land at the other end that it could skooch onto. You obviously consult an actual architect about plans, but with a different roof structure, a two-tiered Wheatfield with a safe standing paddock and  corner wraps to a new Roseburn and a new Gorgie at the same height and rake, there's plenty of room with no added planning approval other than for a taller, wider Wheatfield, which has considerably more room.

 

 

 

As for costs, these are stands with no facilities other than regular seats and the facilities needed to support them (food service, toilets, accessibility support, etc.). When we built our main stand, the going construction cost for those stands was roughly £1k/seat. With the Brexit-weakened pound plus global supply chain issues, that's likely ballooned to something like £1600/seat, which comes out to around £38m for construction. Add financing costs plus the above land, planning, and adaptation costs, and £50m should be plenty to do 24k seats where the other stands are, which go with our main of around 6k, to get us a lovely 30k stadium for half the cost of a brand new one.

 

This isn't affordable to Hearts right now nor will it be unless we kick up a notch in Europe. But it's far more cost effective than a new stadium.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Led Tasso

[Jambo-Fox]

6 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Planning is literally what my academic training is in, so I'll keep my own council on this.

 

You don't need to knock down the current main stand. You don't need to breach the light rules on the Gorgie side. You don't need to rotate it 90 degrees. That's just silly.

 

You need to deal with the COMAH issues with the highly concentrated ethanol at NBDC—20 years ago they asked for £1m to do that, so assume it's maybe 2-3x that now. You need to buy a bit of land that's currently the community pitch, which has a largely unused bit of land at the other end that it could skooch onto. You obviously consult an actual architect about plans, but with a different roof structure, a two-tiered Wheatfield with a safe standing paddock and  corner wraps to a new Roseburn and a new Gorgie at the same height and rake, there's plenty of room with no added planning approval other than for a taller, wider Wheatfield, which has considerably more room.

 

As for costs, these are stands with no facilities other than regular seats and the facilities needed to support them (food service, toilets, accessibility support, etc.). When we built our main stand, the going construction cost for those stands was roughly £1k/seat. With the Brexit-weakened pound plus global supply chain issues, that's likely ballooned to something like £1600/seat, which comes out to around £38m for construction. Add financing costs plus the above land, planning, and adaptation costs, and £50m should be plenty to do 24k seats where the other stands are, which go with our main of around 6k, to get us a lovely 30k stadium for half the cost of a brand new one.

 

This isn't affordable to Hearts right now nor will it be unless we kick up a notch in Europe. But it's far more cost effective than a new stadium.

I’d vote for that! 👏👏👏

[Newton51]

57 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

I dont know if it has been mentioned here already, but the planning application for the big screens has now been granted. So early next/this season (depending how you look at it) the club will install big screens at Tynecastle.

From the original plans it seemed like August/September for this once the commonwealth games we’re finished in Birmingham since second hand

[Abiola Dauda]

Our best hope is if Scotland (not a joint UK bid) hosts a major tournament. Not particularly likely.

 

If we bought the pitch behind the stand we could build a massive stand without rotating the pitch 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, Abiola Dauda said:

Our best hope is if Scotland (not a joint UK bid) hosts a major tournament. Not particularly likely.

 

If we bought the pitch behind the stand we could build a massive stand without rotating the pitch 

 

If Scotland hosts a major tournament, would they not want to use Murrayfield? And if they do, there's no chance they'll want Tynie as well?

[Abiola Dauda]

Just now, Led Tasso said:

 

If Scotland hosts a major tournament, would they not want to use Murrayfield? And if they do, there's no chance they'll want Tynie as well?

Yeah although do WCs not sometimes have more than one stadium in each city? Particularly where there are few major cities.  

 

Agreed Tynecastle's proximity to Murrayfield makes it an unlikely candidate for a WC 

[Abiola Dauda]

1 minute ago, Abiola Dauda said:

Yeah although do WCs not sometimes have more than one stadium in each city? Particularly where there are few major cities.  

 

Agreed Tynecastle's proximity to Murrayfield makes it an unlikely candidate for a WC 

Just looked it up.  WC stadia need capacity of 40,000 so it's unlikely we'd get there. It would probably be Celtic Park, Ibrox, Hampden, Murrafield then expanding/building a few more. Probably Aberdeen and Dundee. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Abiola Dauda said:

Just looked it up.  WC stadia need capacity of 40,000 so it's unlikely we'd get there. It would probably be Celtic Park, Ibrox, Hampden, Murrafield then expanding/building a few more. Probably Aberdeen and Dundee. 

Yes, and they frown on more than one in the same city. Two is somewhat allowable, three is probably out.

 

At least one of Parkhead, Ibrox, and Hampden are likely redundant in a bid. A few years ago a Scotland + Ireland + Wales bid was mooted, using Aviva, Millennium, and the Scottish stadiums, and something akin to that is likely the only way Scotland would get a bid.

 

WC bids are a Faustian tilt anyway—see the stadium in Manaus in Brazil, a 40k stadium that's probably not seen a crowd over 15k since.

[john thomas]

4 hours ago, Nobreath said:

 

And the GFITW booed him at every opportunity.

Celtic friend of mine said at the time we don't need season tickets!

He still hates McCann

[Nobreath]

9 hours ago, john thomas said:

Celtic friend of mine said at the time we don't need season tickets!

He still hates McCann

 

I was reading an article about him in the Celticwiki 🤢 yesterday and all the wonderful things he done for the club. The list was very impressive.

 

The article finished of by going into detail about how he was very warmly welcomed back in 2014 to raise the league winners flag.  I couldn't find any mention of all the abuse he suffered for a good few years before he left. Airbrushed from their proud history like so many other things.

[XXX]

Why not look into buying Carrick Knowe golf course?

 

This was back in 2018 / financial difficulties:

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/shock-popular-carrick-knowe-golf-club-announces-closure-220408?amp
 

Huge swathes of land, stadium, hotels, car parks, training ground etc the potential is huge.

 

Make on offer?

[Rocky jamboa]

We seem to be in a great financial position at the moment with no debt, European income to come this season, almost £2m a year from FOH etc, which is probably why we even have a chance of signing players like Simms, Beni etc. Why jeopardise all that by spending £50m+ on a new stadium/stand to give us extra capacity that we rarely need? 

[indianajones]

2 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

We seem to be in a great financial position at the moment with no debt, European income to come this season, almost £2m a year from FOH etc, which is probably why we even have a chance of signing players like Simms, Beni etc. Why jeopardise all that by spending £50m+ on a new stadium/stand to give us extra capacity that we rarely need? 

 

This. 

[Hearts of Vladland]

13 minutes ago, The Spy Who Loved Me said:

Why not look into buying Carrick Knowe golf course?

 

This was back in 2018 / financial difficulties:

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/shock-popular-carrick-knowe-golf-club-announces-closure-220408?amp
 

Huge swathes of land, stadium, hotels, car parks, training ground etc the potential is huge.

 

Make on offer?

I think the course is still open, it was just a club that run out of the course that shut? I could be wrong but I’m sure that’s what I was told.

[Bungalow Bill]

While we’re in dreamland about extending Tynie to 30,000 and purchasing a listed building allocated for accommodation, has anyone suggested we put a roof on Tynie?

[Bull's-eye]

9 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

While we’re in dreamland about extending Tynie to 30,000 and purchasing a listed building allocated for accommodation, has anyone suggested we put a roof on Tynie?

 

And a removable pitch for American Football games, don't forget that ffs.