TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

 

Impress views of Norway. 

 

 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

We are in a strong position currently however with playing on both fronts next season unless we have a larger squad with better players we may find it difficult to maintain third on a regular basis you just need to look at The Rangers to see their league form this season has dipped.

[heartsfc_fan]

14 minutes ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

🤣 Nice

[EIEIO]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

We need to have plans for several different eventualities. Some club have thrown money at stadium redevelopments (  or new builds ) only to find themselves hitying the skids on the pitch and then have significant financial issues. I’m just advocating a cautious and incremental approach. 

I agree. I think our stadium will be fit for purpose for the next 5 years even if we are in Europe every year. However, if this does happen our capacity will be atretched more often so we should be examining options for expansion of the stadium if it's achievable financially.

[Sooks]

13 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Impress views of Norway. 

 

 

Not if the sun is still rising in the east and setting in the west the glare might be an issue 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Several years ago I ran numbers and came up with selling a seat 6 games for payoff in roughly 10 years. The logic was based on the cost of stands going up around Europe that were nothing but seats, toilets, food stalls, and other bare essentials. In other words, no hospitality suite, no club offices, no pub, etc. In like 2014/2015 time, construction costs were running around £1k/seat for those kinds of stands.

 

Something like this:

5000 extra seats x £25 average cost / seat / game x 6 games per season = £750,000 new revenue per season

Over 10 years that's £7.5m in new revenue, plus a bit in increased ticket prices as you go, minus financing costs and you've got roughly £5m in construction costs financed.

If it cost you roughly £1k/seat to build the stand with those 5k seats, you've got your costs sorted and all additional sales are new revenue for the club

 

But this doesn't really work anymore. It implies no loss of current seats, which if we rebuilt the Wheatfield obviously would mean tearing down 6k seats to put up 12k or some such. (This made more sense when we were talking about the new main, as annual maintenance costs on the old stand were starting to approach the half of total ticket income from the stand itself!) Also, those numbers are now moot as construction costs have gone through the roof everywhere, and ticket prices (thankfully) haven't kept pace.

While there's still some viable prospects in the long run, the calculations now make it clear that it's effectively impossible in the short run.  I'm putting these in the Spoiler tag as this post is getting long.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

First, you've got to cover the cost of working a deal with NBDC for the ethanol and for the land behind the current Wheatfield and demo of the current stand. This could be £5-10m easily.

 

Then there's the cost of the seats. £1k/seat, even when it was applicable, was for a single tier, fairly bare bones stadium (like the current Wheatfield) on clean ground. Man United is adding 15,000 seats to Old Trafford for a cost of £200m, which is £13k per seat. (This site has some interesting numbers, but notably these are for complete stadiums, which also includes the often expensive club offices, training facilities, hospitality, etc.: https://www.footballbenchmark.com/library/stadium_developments_the_boom_continues) I think if we were starting planning today, we could keep costs on a new stand around £2k/seat, but that would be tricky.

 

Also, the Wheatfield is our last, best shot of expanding capacity of Tynecastle. We don't want to do it then run out of space again. I suppose we could build a stand with the footings laid for a second tier on it or some such, but that seems a waste. Anything less than a total capacity of 26-27k would be a waste of time, I think, so let's run the calculations for a new 16k seat stand, which would be enormous, but at least has nice round numbers like 10k new seats and 30k total capacity. That's £32m in construction costs. Add in legal, planning, and unexpected costs and you're easily looking at a £40m+ development, maybe as high as £50m. YIKES!

 

What would it take to pay for that? Doing the math, working backwards.

 

£45m financed over 10 years would cost the club about £5m/year in payments. Because only 10k of those seats are new revenue (the Wheatfield has 6k money-making seats that are fully paid for), each new seat would need to generate £500 per season If the seats in the new stand sold for an average of £30, that's 18 games/season we'd need to sell out the new, enormous stand just to break even. Of course, after the 10th season, it starts to be a cash cow for us, but that's a huge financial burden to put on the club with the need to sell far more seats than we currently do!

 

So what would need to change? The ratio between construction costs and ticket prices would need to narrow back to where it was 8 years ago, which probably means more expensive seats but also may mean construction costs drop a little as pandemic and Russia and Evergiven supply chain issues sort themselves out. We would probably need to get to a point where we have more season ticket demand than availability, and where single game tickets become hard to get. At some point the Wheatfield may no longer be fit for purpose, so it no longer becomes a question of new revenue but of not losing revenue, so that cost gets spread over 16k seats (or whatever the new stand actually would be). And finally, we would need several seasons like next one with cash windfalls from Europe where we can take a few million every season and set it aside in a stadium reserve fund of sorts.

 

All of the above in the spoiler is the very long way of saying, it's possible to imagine a scenario where in 10-15 years a much bigger Wheatfield starts to make sense. But it very much doesn't right now.

 

👏👏👏common-sense post at last on this thread. 
We are just escaping a debt riddled period of 20+ years that nearly closed the club down.  Yet some on here would appear to be happy to take on a new debt of tens of millions just to get an extra 5,000 seats or so. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Stronger imo. 

Strongest ever in the clubs history .... 

 

New stand, higher capacity, no or little bad debt the advantage v romanov times.

 

Who pays for the £20m to demolish and rebuild Wheatfield or Roseburn stand if the club isn’t going to take on any debt? 

[BackOfTheNet]

Surely every stadium in the league next season will have to have screens? (Even Gayfield if Arbroath go up) It’s a requirement of implementing VAR is it not?

[The Gorgie]

31 minutes ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

Building up the way might be the only option. Liverpool recently done it

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Possibly since the early 60s ( I agree that even in the early Vlad days the financial position was very murky ) though the economics of football in the 60s can’t really be compared. 

Certainly since we took the SMG money we have been in serious financial difficulty until now. Even now our finances and infrastructure are largely underwritten by the largesse of one benefactor and the willingness of our Chairperson to continue to allow debt to rollover.  Without either of those two we would still be in the championship if even still in existence imo. We certainly are not yet a self-financing business that could even think about making a£10/15/20m investment. 

[soonbe110]

33 minutes ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

Folks who own flats at bottom of Wheatfield would be delighted with that construction. I’m sure there wouldn’t be any planning objections. 

[adambraejambo]

7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Folks who own flats at bottom of Wheatfield would be delighted with that construction. I’m sure there wouldn’t be any planning objections. 

Always a solution. We just employ Bruno and get him to persuade the flat owners it in their best interests not to object. 

[Bazzas right boot]

36 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Who pays for the £20m to demolish and rebuild Wheatfield or Roseburn stand if the club isn’t going to take on any debt? 

 

I said we don't have bad debt and certainly not the amount of debt we had during the 90's until we went into admin. 

 

I never said we wouldn't take on debt in the future either. 

 

Any project like building a stand will Ofc require us to borrow money. 

 

But if we have income of £20m plus we can service that debt and grow our income. 

 

Really unsure of your point now Tbh. 

Do you think we should never expand and never take on debt to service major projects? 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[JALBO]

1 hour ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

 

Looks good. I think we should do it, just to see how many people actually buy season tickets in row 137 and if they can do the climb in under 45 minutes. 🤣

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

 

A fantastic piece of photo shopping (or something), but I would be kecking my pants at the top of that. It's bad enough in row 30.

Edited April 25, 2022 by upgotheheads

[XB52]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Surely every stadium in the league next season will have to have screens? (Even Gayfield if Arbroath go up) It’s a requirement of implementing VAR is it not?

No, just need a normal size screen for the referee to go and have a look if required. 

[BackOfTheNet]

9 minutes ago, XB52 said:

No, just need a normal size screen for the referee to go and have a look if required. 

Interesting. Thought that the screens were required for alleviating the fan experience. As in, to just have the pop up screen in the technical area would allow VAR to operate, but the frustration in the stands will be huge if there’s no screens to say why a check is taking place and the replay after the decision has been made.

[Fort Vallance]

1 hour ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

You missed out the stand blocking the sun on half of the pitch. No sun, no grass. Good effort though.

[XB52]

15 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Interesting. Thought that the screens were required for alleviating the fan experience. As in, to just have the pop up screen in the technical area would allow VAR to operate, but the frustration in the stands will be huge if there’s no screens to say why a check is taking place and the replay after the decision has been made.

When did the SFA ever bother about the fans? 

[Stu_HMFC]

33 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

A fantastic piece of photo shopping (or something), but I would be kecking my pants at the top of that. It's bad enough in row 30.

Stick the away fans in the gods 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Who pays for the £20m to demolish and rebuild Wheatfield or Roseburn stand if the club isn’t going to take on any debt? 

 

I would imagine similar to how the main stand was funded. A combination of FOH funds, benefactor gifts and a loan? Hell, if Savage does his job right, we can add in player sales and prize money 🤑

 

Its the constraints around the land which is the biggest issue IMO. 

[Walter Bishop]

On 24/04/2022 at 12:35, maroon66 said:

Application submitted to the coucil on Friday to erect new screens.

Where are these expected to go?

[john brownlee]

On 08/11/2021 at 16:53, Jim Panzee said:

yeah - come on frank! you're so negative. please reply saying we should be building a 50,000 all seater stadium so you can prove you have dreams and ambition......and also a complete lack of reality. 🤣🤪

 

[john brownlee]

On 08/11/2021 at 16:53, Jim Panzee said:

yeah - come on frank! you're so negative. please reply saying we should be building a 50,000 all seater stadium so you can prove you have dreams and ambition......and also a complete lack of reality. 🤣🤪

That was the plan before WW2 interfered.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

I said we don't have bad debt and certainly not the amount of debt we had during the 90's until we went into admin. 

 

I never said we wouldn't take on debt in the future either. 

 

Any project like building a stand will Ofc require us to borrow money. 

 

But if we have income of £20m plus we can service that debt and grow our income. 

 

Really unsure of your point now Tbh. 

Do you think we should never expand and never take on debt to service major projects? 

 

 

£5-6m of your £20m will be gifted by one man.  That won’t go on for ever. Our real baseline turnover is around £12-15m. Next year will be higher because of euro dividend but still won’t hit £20m excluding Anderson money. 
I am all for growing the business and the stadium but walk before we run makes sense to me. We should have learned our lessons from experiences with benefactors eg SMG, Vlad - when their money dries up so does the club. 

[Mysterion]

5 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Several years ago I ran numbers and came up with selling a seat 6 games for payoff in roughly 10 years. The logic was based on the cost of stands going up around Europe that were nothing but seats, toilets, food stalls, and other bare essentials. In other words, no hospitality suite, no club offices, no pub, etc. In like 2014/2015 time, construction costs were running around £1k/seat for those kinds of stands.

 

Something like this:

5000 extra seats x £25 average cost / seat / game x 6 games per season = £750,000 new revenue per season

Over 10 years that's £7.5m in new revenue, plus a bit in increased ticket prices as you go, minus financing costs and you've got roughly £5m in construction costs financed.

If it cost you roughly £1k/seat to build the stand with those 5k seats, you've got your costs sorted and all additional sales are new revenue for the club

 

But this doesn't really work anymore. It implies no loss of current seats, which if we rebuilt the Wheatfield obviously would mean tearing down 6k seats to put up 12k or some such. (This made more sense when we were talking about the new main, as annual maintenance costs on the old stand were starting to approach the half of total ticket income from the stand itself!) Also, those numbers are now moot as construction costs have gone through the roof everywhere, and ticket prices (thankfully) haven't kept pace.

While there's still some viable prospects in the long run, the calculations now make it clear that it's effectively impossible in the short run.  I'm putting these in the Spoiler tag as this post is getting long.

 

  Hide contents

First, you've got to cover the cost of working a deal with NBDC for the ethanol and for the land behind the current Wheatfield and demo of the current stand. This could be £5-10m easily.

 

Then there's the cost of the seats. £1k/seat, even when it was applicable, was for a single tier, fairly bare bones stadium (like the current Wheatfield) on clean ground. Man United is adding 15,000 seats to Old Trafford for a cost of £200m, which is £13k per seat. (This site has some interesting numbers, but notably these are for complete stadiums, which also includes the often expensive club offices, training facilities, hospitality, etc.: https://www.footballbenchmark.com/library/stadium_developments_the_boom_continues) I think if we were starting planning today, we could keep costs on a new stand around £2k/seat, but that would be tricky.

 

Also, the Wheatfield is our last, best shot of expanding capacity of Tynecastle. We don't want to do it then run out of space again. I suppose we could build a stand with the footings laid for a second tier on it or some such, but that seems a waste. Anything less than a total capacity of 26-27k would be a waste of time, I think, so let's run the calculations for a new 16k seat stand, which would be enormous, but at least has nice round numbers like 10k new seats and 30k total capacity. That's £32m in construction costs. Add in legal, planning, and unexpected costs and you're easily looking at a £40m+ development, maybe as high as £50m. YIKES!

 

What would it take to pay for that? Doing the math, working backwards.

 

£45m financed over 10 years would cost the club about £5m/year in payments. Because only 10k of those seats are new revenue (the Wheatfield has 6k money-making seats that are fully paid for), each new seat would need to generate £500 per season If the seats in the new stand sold for an average of £30, that's 18 games/season we'd need to sell out the new, enormous stand just to break even. Of course, after the 10th season, it starts to be a cash cow for us, but that's a huge financial burden to put on the club with the need to sell far more seats than we currently do!

 

So what would need to change? The ratio between construction costs and ticket prices would need to narrow back to where it was 8 years ago, which probably means more expensive seats but also may mean construction costs drop a little as pandemic and Russia and Evergiven supply chain issues sort themselves out. We would probably need to get to a point where we have more season ticket demand than availability, and where single game tickets become hard to get. At some point the Wheatfield may no longer be fit for purpose, so it no longer becomes a question of new revenue but of not losing revenue, so that cost gets spread over 16k seats (or whatever the new stand actually would be). And finally, we would need several seasons like next one with cash windfalls from Europe where we can take a few million every season and set it aside in a stadium reserve fund of sorts.

 

All of the above in the spoiler is the very long way of saying, it's possible to imagine a scenario where in 10-15 years a much bigger Wheatfield starts to make sense. But it very much doesn't right now.

 

 

I'd hope to see a conservative approach with the aim to consolidate FoH contributions as a savings pot whilst the club is taking in any UEFA money. If the club consistently achieve European competition then FoH over a 5-10yr window then FoH build a £10mill safety net before kicking off any infrastructure project.

 

From there progress to a loan/financing arrangement to address stadium rebuild. Development will be is notoriously slow which builds even more time to add to the safety net pot. The club takes on the rebuild and repayment is supported by FoH. 

 

I don't think it's unrealistic.

 

[BackOfTheNet]

49 minutes ago, XB52 said:

When did the SFA ever bother about the fans? 

True. VAR should be brought in, in my opinion, but it’s far from perfect due to the laws of the game and how they use VAR to apply those rules. However, one thing that alleviates the imperfection is when the screens say things like “VAR Checking Handball” etc. and when the referee overturns a decision, you get to see on the screen why that was. If they don’t have that in every ground it’ll be chaos up here to be honest.

[jamie1874]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Interesting. Thought that the screens were required for alleviating the fan experience. As in, to just have the pop up screen in the technical area would allow VAR to operate, but the frustration in the stands will be huge if there’s no screens to say why a check is taking place and the replay after the decision has been made.

Manchester United don’t have screens for fans to see VAR in EPL

I think Liverpool don’t either.

 

Think they may be the only clubs that don’t, or they were in the first season of VAR in EPL.

[BackOfTheNet]

17 minutes ago, jamie1874 said:

Manchester United don’t have screens for fans to see VAR in EPL

I think Liverpool don’t either.

 

Think they may be the only clubs that don’t, or they were in the first season of VAR in EPL.

That’s quite surprising actually. I still think VAR will be overall beneficial. But I do know even amongst those that sit around me at Tynecastle we have some bellends who don’t seem to understand the rules of football (shouting handball when it clearly hits someone’s chest, for example) and I was hoping being able to see a replay after a VAR decision can make things a little easier in that regard. Saying that, those that seek out seethe will always find reason to seethe.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

I'd hope to see a conservative approach with the aim to consolidate FoH contributions as a savings pot whilst the club is taking in any UEFA money. If the club consistently achieve European competition then FoH over a 5-10yr window then FoH build a £10mill safety net before kicking off any infrastructure project.

 

From there progress to a loan/financing arrangement to address stadium rebuild. Development will be is notoriously slow which builds even more time to add to the safety net pot. The club takes on the rebuild and repayment is supported by FoH. 

 

I don't think it's unrealistic.

 

Exactly.

 

Build up the cash ahead of the build. Don't have to get it all, but that makes the whole thing far more doable. I think even having £15-20m in a stadium reserve fund isn't out of the question. Alternately, you could use the cash to go ahead and do a deal with NBDC and get that cost out of the way and pay 2025 land prices instead of 2032 land prices.

[Unknown user]

10 hours ago, john brownlee said:

That was the plan before WW2 interfered.

Was that the one at Sighthill?

[Bazzas right boot]

11 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

£5-6m of your £20m will be gifted by one man.  That won’t go on for ever. Our real baseline turnover is around £12-15m. Next year will be higher because of euro dividend but still won’t hit £20m excluding Anderson money. 
I am all for growing the business and the stadium but walk before we run makes sense to me. We should have learned our lessons from experiences with benefactors eg SMG, Vlad - when their money dries up so does the club. 

 

 

I'm in no way suggesting we live of hand outs. 

 

 

[Mysterion]

9 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

Exactly.

 

Build up the cash ahead of the build. Don't have to get it all, but that makes the whole thing far more doable. I think even having £15-20m in a stadium reserve fund isn't out of the question. Alternately, you could use the cash to go ahead and do a deal with NBDC and get that cost out of the way and pay 2025 land prices instead of 2032 land prices.

 

I actually think bigger with NBDC. I think that it would be significant to buy out the entire site (allowing them to move a % of their operation to a new location) and work with them to create a smaller operation from the city as a heritage/tourist site in conjunction with the club.

 

This allows a bit more room to be obtained and a favourable (to NBDC as part of the deal) lease back agreement to be struck creating a yearly income for the club. 

 

Pie in the sky stuff just now but nothing should be out of the question. Creativity is part of the solution, ideas take the club forward and I think (despite the stadium build etc) we haven't had enough of a vision (prime example being not taking a long term option on the school site).

Edited April 26, 2022 by Mysterion

[I.T.K]

14 hours ago, Jambo.Craig said:

Don't post here often but I do read Kickback almost every day. 

 

I couldn't help imagining an extended Wheatfield with impressive views of Edinburgh and the Castle. 

 

Another 8,000 seats in the Wheatfield would be lovely. 

 

Love this.... 

[jambali]

18 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

 

Love this.... 

But they huvnae filled in the corners...!

[OTT]

1 hour ago, I.T.K said:

 

Love this.... 

 

I do too 😂 Maybe not to 3 levels, but could imagine a row of corporate boxes or some hospitality up the back with views over the city. Would be bloody cool! 

[Thomaso]

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Seems a bit stupid to not use such a good stadium over something like that when they play against some of the top sides in the world there every couple of weeks

[1971fozzy]

I don’t get why some are wanting to expand at the moment. We are getting back on our feet. Put money away in a stand fund every year and in 10 years or so look at rebuilding stands as and when they need replaced. The only stand we have a chance to expand is the wheatfield and that’s dependent on overcoming external issues.

I never want to leave Tynecastle 

[1971fozzy]

On 25/04/2022 at 14:23, maroon66 said:

It has to be validated and payed before it's in the public domain.

And it’s 2 months minimum for planning to consent. So all things being ok (no objections etc) should be good for start of next season 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

14 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

I actually think bigger with NBDC. I think that it would be significant to buy out the entire site (allowing them to move a % of their operation to a new location) and work with them to create a smaller operation from the city as a heritage/tourist site in conjunction with the club.

 

This allows a bit more room to be obtained and a favourable (to NBDC as part of the deal) lease back agreement to be struck creating a yearly income for the club. 

 

Pie in the sky stuff just now but nothing should be out of the question. Creativity is part of the solution, ideas take the club forward and I think (despite the stadium build etc) we haven't had enough of a vision (prime example being not taking a long term option on the school site).

On a different thread (or perhaps this one way back?) someone mentioned that NBDC's turnover and equipment on site absolutely dwarf our turnover. I think any plan that involves buying them out would be far beyond our budget.

 

However, I don't think we need the whole site, and I'm not sure what we'd do with it. Skooching the community pitch over into some of their parking lot and maybe some easements right behind their warehouses on the corner should be plenty. I don't know enough about what's happening with the old school, but maybe the Roseburn could be expanded a bit too.

[Kiwidoug]

The more trophies we win the closer we should look at expanding the stadium capacity.

[stuart500]

Details of the screens are now on the Council Planning portal. 

 

[JALBO]

3 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

Details of the screens are now on the Council Planning portal. 

 

 

Yeah, see that. I think they look pretty good - and probably larger than I had anticipated. One in the Main and one in the Wheatfield at the opposite end.

[jamboinglasgow]

4 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

Details of the screens are now on the Council Planning portal. 

 

 

Here is the link

 

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=RA9OZ0EWIL900&activeTab=summary

 

Pretty interesting, they also include a breakdown of the costs. It will cost us £170,500.54 for the two screens and £19,841.99 for the control systems. They are being sponsored by ADI (who are installing them) and they are going to be ones that are going to be used at the Birmingham Commonwealth games this summer (where they are new there) then installed at Tynecastle (so they have 3 weeks use in them.) We also recover some cost back from HMRC as part of the Super Deduction scheme.

 

Worth a look.

 

[Lfhearts]

19 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

The more trophies we win the closer we should look at expanding the stadium capacity.

We need to win a trophy on a regular basis and that ain't happening with OF in league.

[DETTY29]

[davemclaren]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

I had envisioned that they would be ‘outside’ the stands at the corners but I assume the logistical challenges of that would be too big.  

[kingantti1874]

Smart but on the trusses would have been better IMO.  Probably make installation far more complex however 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

26 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

We need to win a trophy on a regular basis and that ain't happening with OF in league.

 

If we win the league once or possibly even twice in the next 10 years, we will have both the resources and the support needed for a significant expansion.