TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Jim Panzee]

34 minutes ago, Locky said:

I vaguely recall when building the main stand up, that we were looking to do it similar to how Liverpool upgraded Anfield, so that there was room for expansion with minimal impact. No idea what happened to that though.

 

Seen a lot of chat about expanding Tynecastle and I think folk are getting a tad carried away. I'd say our stadium is the perfect size for us right now, and will be for the foreseeable. We've had a good start to the season, coinciding with our return to the top flight and fans being allowed back after Covid. But lets not kid outselves on that the high attendances are down to much more than that.

 

Lets see if we're still getting 18k turning up for Category B games at the tail end of the season.

indeed.

[heartsfc_fan]

Stadium is fine for now.

Put up a proper permanent segregation barrier so we don't have to use 500+ seats to segregate home/away fans.

If we are regularly selling out we should give all away teams one section (circa 750) which leaves roughly 19k for home fans. Plenty.

[davemclaren]

Unless we move from Tynecastle then the next major upgrade will be when the Wheatfield needs replaced. It’s been up for nearly 30 years now so mid 21st century is probably the earliest. I don’t think planning regulations/contraints will be any less by then. 

 

I’ll be in my mid 90s so looking forwards to it. 🥸
 

[Stu_HMFC]

Take away the end wall between the Main stand and Roseburn join it up keeping the pillars holding the stand up and add one of these what Manchester City had.

 

Restricted viewing seats behind the pillar give every away team that section and we can have the full Roseburn to home fans. 

 

Will take it up to 22K - Have a lot of away fans moaning but a lot of stadiums in Scotland away allocations are very poor and in some cases restricted viewing.  😂

 

[I.T.K]

20 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Stadium is fine for now.

Put up a proper permanent segregation barrier so we don't have to use 500+ seats to segregate home/away fans.

If we are regularly selling out we should give all away teams one section (circa 750) which leaves roughly 19k for home fans. Plenty.

 

I think the current barrier gives a flexible solution. Sadly the size was increased due to some fans being bams.  

[EIEIO]

7 hours ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

I’m not sure Hearts have released an official capacity number recently but the number I tend to see is 19,852. In reality it’s less than that most of the time due to gaps for segregation etc.

I’d love to get the capacity up to 23k or thereabouts but it’s hard to see how we can get there in the short term at least given all the constraints we’re dealing with physically (space, existing roof design etc) and the likely massive costs of a redo even if it’s possible.

 

Right now I’m happy having full- or near-to-full houses most weeks.

 

I’d hope someone is taking a look at our options longer term of course.

Totally agree. At the moment it is getting better players that is the main priority. We should be looking at options for the future too. Regular European football should be achievable for us with our fan base and budget which in turn will increase our income and the number of near capacity crowds.

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Take away the end wall between the Main stand and Roseburn join it up keeping the pillars holding the stand up and add one of these what Manchester City had.

 

Restricted viewing seats behind the pillar give every away team that section and we can have the full Roseburn to home fans. 

 

Will take it up to 22K - Have a lot of away fans moaning but a lot of stadiums in Scotland away allocations are very poor and in some cases restricted viewing.  😂

 

I actually sat in that structure 20 odd years ago. Very rickety and exposed to the wind and rain. 😕

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Take away the end wall between the Main stand and Roseburn join it up keeping the pillars holding the stand up and add one of these what Manchester City had.

 

Restricted viewing seats behind the pillar give every away team that section and we can have the full Roseburn to home fans. 

 

Will take it up to 22K - Have a lot of away fans moaning but a lot of stadiums in Scotland away allocations are very poor and in some cases restricted viewing.  😂

 

Come on Stu that looks horrendous. 

[Mysterion]

9 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Ann Budge has done her bit in terms of injecting cash.  I wouldn't pin your hopes on a benefactor throwing money down the drain chasing a pipe dream.

 

We have no realistic chance of closing the income gap on Celtic and Sevco while in the SPFL.  They have a far bigger pull to draw from.

 

Your premise that fans will keep increasing doesn't hold against any historical data for our attendees.  Too many if, buts, and maybes.

 

I'd generally nod my head and understand your logic but the approach is defeatist and I don't think HMFC have to sit back and apply that mindset. I'm quite optimistic generally and the views you have hold water for the past but change is possible if the strategy is right. I'm not saying it will happen but there is opportunity. 

 

Here is why I take a different outlook:

 

I think that with a number of factors a club like ours can grow significantly. Often in modern football you get a snowball effect where something happens and other financial orientated things then keep coming. For that reason with financial stability, an external ethos around ethics/morals (eg. no gambling sponsors etc.) then Hearts as a football club can be attractive to sponsors. Getting significant commercial income though sort of needs to be driven by on the field success. 

 

The commercial side of Hearts has been growing over the last 5yrs, the team infrastructure appears to be fixed/improving and Savage has had a level of success so far. If that continues it brings in more fans and the East of Scotland population is set to grow. We have an opportunity to capture new fans and at first they may be fairweather but over time that solidifies. 

 

If we're successful on the pitch, players like Beni make the club money, other EPL fringe players see a chance to re-establish themselves then potentially a club like Hearts benefits from the commercial sponsors (who love positive success stories) and transfer fees that may come our way. We have 3 players this season who arrived from the squads of EPL clubs - maybe they don't work out (Demi Mitchell springs to mind) but we appear to have targetted players who have the right mindset/attitude. Long may this continue. 

 

In around 4yrs I suspect SPFL (or SPL) TV will replace Sky and the TV income will increase. There's a lot of ifs and buts however I think Hearts are best positioned to benefit from population/commercial sponsors/extra TV money/attracting players. These are the reasons that our attendances will naturally increase. 

 

I genuinely would not be surprised if there's already 2 or 3 strategy plans written by people at Hearts that focus on these things with various safeguards in place. 

 

So with all that in mind and going back to your point about increasing attendances... filling the corners aye ?

[Stu_HMFC]

12 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I actually sat in that structure 20 odd years ago. Very rickety and exposed to the wind and rain. 😕

I think Wolves have one at the moment 

[Stu_HMFC]

18 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Come on Stu that looks horrendous. 

😂😂 It's a joke man, Imagine that behind one of the floodlight pillars no one would be able to see the pitch. 

 

Like I said earlier in the thread the best thing what could of been done was adding another 10 rows or so to the new main stand when they were building it and had the plans put forward. 10K main stand would of been ideal. 

 

I can't see any increase in capacity any time soon. Would love to have 25K but are we always going to have a full house most weeks? It wouldn't look good if we got 17k at a game and there was 8k empty seats. It would then give the opportunity to give the old firm a full stand what we want to stop now.   

Edited November 9, 2021 by Stu_HMFC

[Fozzyonthefence]

11 hours ago, chrisyboy7 said:

My i point out that just under 21k applied for a season ticket that year in 2005

No they didn’t.  Possibly the year after though. 

[Tasavallan]

9 hours ago, Bruno said:

Aside from rotating the pitch 90 degrees and rebuilding the entire stadium, the only option to expand is by adding a tier to the main stand, in much the same manner that Liverpool recently did. There's no space behind any of the other stands, and the corners can't be filled in because the pylons are structurally integral.

 

IMO

The 4 lighting pylons being an integral part of the structural steelwork makes it far too costly.

[Stu_HMFC]

1 hour ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Stadium is fine for now.

Put up a proper permanent segregation barrier so we don't have to use 500+ seats to segregate home/away fans.

If we are regularly selling out we should give all away teams one section (circa 750) which leaves roughly 19k for home fans. Plenty.

Big glass bullet proof fence like you see in Holland with Ajax. 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Stu_HMFC

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Usually everyone who wants a ticket can get a ticket for Tynecastle for big games, certainly regulars can. A night like Bayern Munich would have been totally different at Murrayfield. These nights are the reward for people who go week in week out.

There were plenty at the Bayern Munich game that didn’t go to another game that season!

[rudi must stay]

20,000 and hospitality facilities is absolutely fine for Hearts 

[Nobreath]

1 hour ago, I.T.K said:

 

I think the current barrier gives a flexible solution. Sadly the size was increased due to some fans being bams.  

 

Perhaps we need to coat the current barrier with some kind of sticky solution similar to fly paper, so any dafties attempting to cross it are left stuck on their back kicking like some great upturned blue bottle.

 

[frankblack]

33 minutes ago, Nobreath said:

 

Perhaps we need to coat the current barrier with some kind of sticky solution similar to fly paper, so any dafties attempting to cross it are left stuck on their back kicking like some great upturned blue bottle.

 

The issue is probably going to be bams chucking stuff over.

[jamboinglasgow]

2 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

I'd generally nod my head and understand your logic but the approach is defeatist and I don't think HMFC have to sit back and apply that mindset. I'm quite optimistic generally and the views you have hold water for the past but change is possible if the strategy is right. I'm not saying it will happen but there is opportunity. 

 

Here is why I take a different outlook:

 

I think that with a number of factors a club like ours can grow significantly. Often in modern football you get a snowball effect where something happens and other financial orientated things then keep coming. For that reason with financial stability, an external ethos around ethics/morals (eg. no gambling sponsors etc.) then Hearts as a football club can be attractive to sponsors. Getting significant commercial income though sort of needs to be driven by on the field success. 

 

The commercial side of Hearts has been growing over the last 5yrs, the team infrastructure appears to be fixed/improving and Savage has had a level of success so far. If that continues it brings in more fans and the East of Scotland population is set to grow. We have an opportunity to capture new fans and at first they may be fairweather but over time that solidifies. 

 

If we're successful on the pitch, players like Beni make the club money, other EPL fringe players see a chance to re-establish themselves then potentially a club like Hearts benefits from the commercial sponsors (who love positive success stories) and transfer fees that may come our way. We have 3 players this season who arrived from the squads of EPL clubs - maybe they don't work out (Demi Mitchell springs to mind) but we appear to have targetted players who have the right mindset/attitude. Long may this continue. 

 

In around 4yrs I suspect SPFL (or SPL) TV will replace Sky and the TV income will increase. There's a lot of ifs and buts however I think Hearts are best positioned to benefit from population/commercial sponsors/extra TV money/attracting players. These are the reasons that our attendances will naturally increase. 

 

I genuinely would not be surprised if there's already 2 or 3 strategy plans written by people at Hearts that focus on these things with various safeguards in place. 

 

So with all that in mind and going back to your point about increasing attendances... filling the corners aye ?

 

Completely agree with this. I think we are building our earnings and size through a number of means.

 

One thing that is important to note is Europe. With the Europa conference league added it has meant more chance of getting a a large payout which can change the prospects for a club outside of the old firm. Its no surprise that Aberdeen and Hibs are pushing out to get that (which is going poorly for them.) If we finish third this season, we are guaranteed to get at least £3-4 million (cant exactly which) as are at worst going into the conference league, and thats before gate receipts and money from any results we get comes in. 

[Jack Torrance]

1 hour ago, rudi must stay said:

20,000 and hospitality facilities is absolutely fine for Hearts 

Hospitality is the key area we can develop that will see a decent return for minimal outlay.

 

We have a floor in the main stand to develop and there may be scope in other parts of the ground that could be used.

[Rogue Daddy]

53 minutes ago, Nobreath said:

 

Perhaps we need to coat the current barrier with some kind of sticky solution similar to fly paper, so any dafties attempting to cross it are left stuck on their back kicking like some great upturned blue bottle.

 

🤣🤣 soap* would do the trick.. they wouldn't dare go near that.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Rogue Daddy
* sorry, thought I was still on a shellick thread... although it would work for a few clubs

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I actually sat in that structure 20 odd years ago. Very rickety and exposed to the wind and rain. 😕

 

Perfect for away fans then

[Thomaso]

13 hours ago, Herbert said:

Fwiw I miss the old main stand and don't want anymore changes. I know it was just a pile of bricks but I felt sad when it was gone.

Yeh I miss that smell of pish emanating from the old hole of a gents toilet…..

[hmfc_liam06]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

The issue is probably going to be bams chucking stuff over.

 

They can't chuck anything over the current barriers?

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, Jack Torrance said:

Hospitality is the key area we can develop that will see a decent return for minimal outlay.

 

We have a floor in the main stand to develop and there may be scope in other parts of the ground that could be used.

 

Agree completely. So much under used space in, around and under the stadium.  Have a look at what Spurs have done and use that concept on a smaller scale to get rents in all year round from businesses for things like gyms/coffee shops/soft play.  Spurs ground is like the Omni centre or Fountainpark so it is generating revenue every single day.  Flexible office co-working space is another thing everyone is going mad for.

 

 

[davemclaren]

26 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

Agree completely. So much under used space in, around and under the stadium.  Have a look at what Spurs have done and use that concept on a smaller scale to get rents in all year round from businesses for things like gyms/coffee shops/soft play.  Spurs ground is like the Omni centre or Fountainpark so it is generating revenue every single day.  Flexible office co-working space is another thing everyone is going mad for.

 

 

It probably has parking though. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, EIEIO said:

Totally agree. At the moment it is getting better players that is the main priority. We should be looking at options for the future too. Regular European football should be achievable for us with our fan base and budget which in turn will increase our income and the number of near capacity crowds.

 

This. Our capacity is good and there are loads of good ideas on this thread for other sources of revenue, as well as things the club is already doing. If safe standing areas ever trickle down to our league I wonder if this could allow for a slight increase in capacity?

[Jambo92]

Said it before but more seats isn't always a positive.  It can lead to a more lethargic atmosphere and also more lethargic season ticket sales, some people will put off buying a season ticket if they know they can buy a ticket 30 mins before a game and sit roughly where they wish.  So its not just a simple case of build more seats.  We have also been in turmoil for much of the last decade in terms of playing staff, any loose change should be invested in the playing squad in my opinion from this point forward.

[The Treasurer]

19 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

This. Our capacity is good and there are loads of good ideas on this thread for other sources of revenue, as well as things the club is already doing. If safe standing areas ever trickle down to our league I wonder if this could allow for a slight increase in capacity?

Safe standing doesn't increase the capacity. 

[adambraejambo]

Make a TV studio on 2nd floor. Whilst it was OK for league Cup games i hate seeing a temp platform made for some pundits to stand on and talk nonsense. It reduces capacity further for games we nornally have a higher demand for  . Makes no sense to me. Also when it not being used Hearts TV can use it for Pvp. I don't see why Boyd and Co need to be standing by side of the pitch. Give them a seat and they can Nash to studio a when required. I

[Arfur]

The chance to grow into a larger stadium at tynecastle was when we built the main stand. Really the main stand should have been 2 tiered with maybe an additional 3/4K seats, should have had a counter lever roof and should have been built 4/5 meters further away from the pitch than it was. This might not have meant that corner structures could have been taken away right away but if we then purchased the land behind the wheatfield and built another 2 tier counter lever stand we could have possibly replaced the roofs of the gorgie and roseburn with ones that were held up by the main and wheatfield stands (similar to attached photo) without fully rebuilding those stands and possibly meaning we could fill in corners (and 4/5 meter gap now created), increase capacity and making the pitch fully  compliant

 

  

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, Arfur said:

The chance to grow into a larger stadium at tynecastle was when we built the main stand. Really the main stand should have been 2 tiered with maybe an additional 3/4K seats, should have had a counter lever roof and should have been built 4/5 meters further away from the pitch than it was. This might not have meant that corner structures could have been taken away right away but if we then purchased the land behind the wheatfield and built another 2 tier counter lever stand we could have possibly replaced the roofs of the gorgie and roseburn with ones that were held up by the main and wheatfield stands (similar to attached photo) without fully rebuilding those stands and possibly meaning we could fill in corners (and 4/5 meter gap now created), increase capacity and making the pitch fully  compliant

 

  

You do know that we had height restrictions. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

12 minutes ago, Arfur said:

The chance to grow into a larger stadium at tynecastle was when we built the main stand. Really the main stand should have been 2 tiered with maybe an additional 3/4K seats, should have had a counter lever roof and should have been built 4/5 meters further away from the pitch than it was. This might not have meant that corner structures could have been taken away right away but if we then purchased the land behind the wheatfield and built another 2 tier counter lever stand we could have possibly replaced the roofs of the gorgie and roseburn with ones that were held up by the main and wheatfield stands (similar to attached photo) without fully rebuilding those stands and possibly meaning we could fill in corners (and 4/5 meter gap now created), increase capacity and making the pitch fully  compliant

 

I guess this is just going to become my bit, but this once again assumes that we had somehow been able to deal with the hard cap on capacity at Tynecastle enforced by the COMAH restrictions related to the ethanol tanks at NBDC.

 

In the future if we end up working a deal with NBDC to move their tanks, we can almost certainly work a deal to re-arrange the community pitch they own behind the Wheatfield and build as big a stand as we can possibly manage there. WTF, build a 20k stand there to rival the Struth stand and we can have us a 35k stadium. Whee!

[1953]

17 minutes ago, Arfur said:

The chance to grow into a larger stadium at tynecastle was when we built the main stand. Really the main stand should have been 2 tiered with maybe an additional 3/4K seats, should have had a counter lever roof and should have been built 4/5 meters further away from the pitch than it was. This might not have meant that corner structures could have been taken away right away but if we then purchased the land behind the wheatfield and built another 2 tier counter lever stand we could have possibly replaced the roofs of the gorgie and roseburn with ones that were held up by the main and wheatfield stands (similar to attached photo) without fully rebuilding those stands and possibly meaning we could fill in corners (and 4/5 meter gap now created), increase capacity and making the pitch fully  compliant

 

  

Lets not forget that the main stand rebuild had to be done in a rush otherwise the council would have rebuilt the nursery then we would have been stuck with the old, not fit for purpose, stand. If that had happened perhaps the only alternative would have been selling up and building a new purpose built stadium away from Gorgie. 

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

It probably has parking though. 

Indeed the lack of parking is a drawback.

[Thomaso]

28 minutes ago, Arfur said:

The chance to grow into a larger stadium at tynecastle was when we built the main stand. Really the main stand should have been 2 tiered with maybe an additional 3/4K seats, should have had a counter lever roof and should have been built 4/5 meters further away from the pitch than it was. This might not have meant that corner structures could have been taken away right away but if we then purchased the land behind the wheatfield and built another 2 tier counter lever stand we could have possibly replaced the roofs of the gorgie and roseburn with ones that were held up by the main and wheatfield stands (similar to attached photo) without fully rebuilding those stands and possibly meaning we could fill in corners (and 4/5 meter gap now created), increase capacity and making the pitch fully  compliant

 

  

Looks a bit draughty to me! 🥶

[OTT]

5 minutes ago, 1953 said:

Lets not forget that the main stand rebuild had to be done in a rush otherwise the council would have rebuilt the nursery then we would have been stuck with the old, not fit for purpose, stand. If that had happened perhaps the only alternative would have been selling up and building a new purpose built stadium away from Gorgie. 

 

Honestly it seems like its absolutely ****ing cursed.

 

Schools a listed building, flats behind the gorgie stand, height restrictions, distillery explosion radius, wheatfield likely has light issues for the flats behind too. 

 

Its a ****ing shambles how bad the site actually is. Getting anything further built there will be an act of god. 

[Thomaso]

7 minutes ago, 1953 said:

Lets not forget that the main stand rebuild had to be done in a rush otherwise the council would have rebuilt the nursery then we would have been stuck with the old, not fit for purpose, stand. If that had happened perhaps the only alternative would have been selling up and building a new purpose built stadium away from Gorgie. 

You are spot on! Also remember the vast majority of Hearts fans wanted to stay at our spiritual home.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Honestly it seems like its absolutely ****ing cursed.

 

Schools a listed building, flats behind the gorgie stand, height restrictions, distillery explosion radius, wheatfield likely has light issues for the flats behind too. 

 

Its a ****ing shambles how bad the site actually is. Getting anything further built there will be an act of god. 

I have never ever thought of Hearts being cursed playing at Tynecastle! I love the place!

[Thomaso]

16 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I guess this is just going to become my bit, but this once again assumes that we had somehow been able to deal with the hard cap on capacity at Tynecastle enforced by the COMAH restrictions related to the ethanol tanks at NBDC.

 

In the future if we end up working a deal with NBDC to move their tanks, we can almost certainly work a deal to re-arrange the community pitch they own behind the Wheatfield and build as big a stand as we can possibly manage there. WTF, build a 20k stand there to rival the Struth stand and we can have us a 35k stadium. Whee!

Liverpool built a 20,000 new stand.

the cost was reported at £114m……

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Could put a big screen up 

[been here before]

3 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Could put a big screen up 

 

Up where?

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

11 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Looks a bit draughty to me! 🥶

It might work in Austin TX but maybe not Edinburgh!

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, Thomaso said:

Liverpool built a 20,000 new stand.

the cost was reported at £114m……

To state perhaps the obvious, I wasn't being serious about the 20k stand. (Also, just for clarity, that was their new main stand? So I presume that money was for fancypants toe massagers at every locker and massage chairs in hospitality and what not?)

 

I would think we could do a 10-12k Wheatfield replacement with just seats, toilets, and food stands for the neighborhood £20m at some point though? But again, that's all assuming that something could be worked out with NBDC, which is all just pie in the sky speculation of course . . .

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 minute ago, been here before said:

 

Up where?

Any of the stands or corners 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

33 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

You do know that we had height restrictions. 

That’s OK as long as you end up with a Robbo of a stand.

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

You are spot on! Also remember the vast majority of Hearts fans wanted to stay at our spiritual home.

 

Hindsight is a hell of a thing and I'm not assigning blame here because I know that the nursery issue pulled the timeframe in extremely tightly so it was a choice between acting now, or losing that opportunity which would have been crippling for us. I do wish that we'd been presented with how impossible further expansion is on the current site and what the alternative would have been (location, capacity, additional plans). Very frustrating because this will stifle further growth until a difficult decision is forced through eventual necessity.

 

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

I have never ever thought of Hearts being cursed playing at Tynecastle! I love the place!

 

I love it too. Fantastic atmosphere and a million miles better than the San Giro Meccano stadium our neighbours have.  I'm talking more around how there is nothing further we can do to the stadium to grow the club. Sub 20k, thats our lot. In the last 50 years we've probably only had two positive owners (Mercer and Budge). I really believe we have far more potential than our current capacity provides but its a classic case of if you don't build it, they can't come. We're talking 6-8 games a season where attendances would be 80-100% (OF, Hibs & Aberdeen) which IMO more than justifies it, even more if we qualify for Europe. Especially if you can carry more of that support into the less desirable games. 

[Thomaso]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Hindsight is a hell of a thing and I'm not assigning blame here because I know that the nursery issue pulled the timeframe in extremely tightly so it was a choice between acting now, or losing that opportunity which would have been crippling for us. I do wish that we'd been presented with how impossible further expansion is on the current site and what the alternative would have been (location, capacity, additional plans). Very frustrating because this will stifle further growth until a difficult decision is forced through eventual necessity.

 

 

I love it too. Fantastic atmosphere and a million miles better than the San Giro Meccano stadium our neighbours have.  I'm talking more around how there is nothing further we can do to the stadium to grow the club. Sub 20k, thats our lot. In the last 50 years we've probably only had two positive owners (Mercer and Budge). I really believe we have far more potential than our current capacity provides but its a classic case of if you don't build it, they can't come. We're talking 6-8 games a season where attendances would be 80-100% (OF, Hibs & Aberdeen) which IMO more than justifies it, even more if we qualify for Europe. Especially if you can carry more of that support into the less desirable games. 

Yup hindsight eh.

[Mark_Mywords]

40 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

You do know that we had height restrictions. 

 

True, but just along the road at Haymarket a 9 storey hotel got planning permission no problem.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Mark_Mywords said:

 

True, but just along the road at Haymarket a 9 storey hotel got planning permission no problem.

That’s Edinburgh Council Planning Dept for you! 😏

Edited November 9, 2021 by Thomaso