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***Official St Johnstone FC Vs Heart of Midlothian FC Match Thread***


gregzy2k7

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34 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I think more likely we'd keep 3 at the back but play our "wingers" a bit closer to Gnando, which does 2 things - gives the wing to the WBs to hopefully get plenty crosses in, and also gets players around the big guy to play off him/win second balls.

 

 


i have been thinking this as well. We have been playing some good football and getting some good results, but I think the main reason we are lacking that cutting edge in the final third is because we are not getting the best out of the front three, but in particular the two 10’s behind him. I think they are in two minds about playing as a ten/playing as a winger and we are just not getting the best out of them.
 

We need to find a way to get more goals in the team which I hope will come with players like Woodburn and mckay chipping in. These guys should be chipping in with 8/9 goals each over a season which would give us a massive platform for a strong season 

Having conversations like this just makes me more optimistic. We are debating things as we are wanting more  and expecting better…. We are only three points behind rangers after nearly a full round of games and arguably, not been at our best yet/still have another gear to find! Hearts 2-0 St Johnstone

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I think the back 3 or back 5, have been a solid platform and defended excellently for the most part.

 

I'd like us to play 4-3-3 as it retains our forward structure but give us an extra man in midfield. The downside of that is I wouldn't fancy Halkett in a back 4 and Moore / Soapy might be too much like for like. I haven't seen enough of Moore to see what he likes to do and doesn't like to do as a Centerhalf. 

 

If there was a change of shape I think it could be a slight tweak to 5-3-2/3-4-1-2 and playing with an extra striker & Central mid which imo is something that we cannot currently do due to injuries to Boycie and questions over Woodburn and Gnando's form. 

 

For now it's a case of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. We've done well with it bar conceding a shanner of a goal from a throw in, which was just a poor lapse in concentration, an individual error. 

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24 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

Would be happy to stick with 343 as the squad will be comfortable working to this. Woodburn sitting on the bench for 60mins would be my 1st change. He has been a bit petulant in the last few games and Saturday raised his profile to referee’s, Gino in for him. McEneff in for Beni, Halliday out of the match day squad making way for Woodburn on the bench. Options for Haring or Beni coming on depending on situation. Midfield really needs to start contributing goals 

McEneff in for Beni is laughable.

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19 minutes ago, karipidis said:

McEneff in for Beni is laughable.

 

If Beni is fit then he should start every game. He would be one of the first names on the teamsheet for me.

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Gimme an H...
50 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

Would be happy to stick with 343 as the squad will be comfortable working to this. Woodburn sitting on the bench for 60mins would be my 1st change. He has been a bit petulant in the last few games and Saturday raised his profile to referee’s, Gino in for him. McEneff in for Beni, Halliday out of the match day squad making way for Woodburn on the bench. Options for Haring or Beni coming on depending on situation. Midfield really needs to start contributing goals 

 

You're.....dropping Beni?

 

🤣

 

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Think we should stick with the 3 at the back, we played a back 4 against county and looked poor defensively, for me stick with 3-4-3 as players are more comfortable with 3 at the back.

If we change it then perhaps a 3-4-1-2 with Gnando and McKay up top with either GMS or woody in behind the 10 role.

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Gnando to be nowhere near the start for me. He was horrendous on Saturday and I haven't seen anything from him that suggests he is good enough. Gave away foul after foul, fresh aired headers and looked lost. Couldn't hold the ball in and if he is playing tomorrow we start with 10 men really. 

 

Play Woodburn as the number 9 with McKay and GMS off him. 

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Also crazy the folk wanting Beni dropped for one under par performance! The guy along with Gordon has probably been our player of the season so far. 

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The Old Tolbooth

Going to be a tough game at a ground we don't do well at, but if we play to our strengths then we can win it with a bit to spare, be a huge loss if Boyce is out though, who takes the pens? 

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26 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Also crazy the folk wanting Beni dropped for one under par performance! The guy along with Gordon has probably been our player of the season so far. 

Completely agree 

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Kidd’s Boots
36 minutes ago, Gimme an H... said:

 

You're.....dropping Beni?

 

🤣

 

Options, the system we play creates great opportunities for goals from midfield…. Our current tally from the midfield this season is how many?

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5 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

…in your opinion

There is 2 or 3 names in before mceneff but to even think about dropping beni is ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

Would be happy to stick with 343 as the squad will be comfortable working to this. Woodburn sitting on the bench for 60mins would be my 1st change. He has been a bit petulant in the last few games and Saturday raised his profile to referee’s, Gino in for him. McEneff in for Beni, Halliday out of the match day squad making way for Woodburn on the bench. Options for Haring or Beni coming on depending on situation. Midfield really needs to start contributing goals 

 

Gino has offered very little of late coming off the bench, doesn't look like he's fighting to force his way into the team

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Kidd’s Boots
2 minutes ago, Andyp1874 said:

There is 2 or 3 names in before mceneff but to even think about dropping beni is ridiculous. 

There is only one goal scoring midfield ahead of McEneff this season. Therefore, in my opinion, he is up there

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Gimme an H...
12 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

Options, the system we play creates great opportunities for goals from midfield…. Our current tally from the midfield this season is how many?

 

He's no there to score goals - he's there to read the game, close down, win tackles, make interceptions, break up the opposition play. All of which he has done outstandingly so far this season.

 

You simply cannot drop Beni or Devlin on current form.

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2 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

There is only one goal scoring midfield ahead of McEneff this season. Therefore, in my opinion, he is up there

Beni isnt played as a “goal scoring midfielder “

Edited by Andyp1874
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Kidd’s Boots
1 minute ago, Ribble said:

 

Gino has offered very little of late coming off the bench, doesn't look like he's fighting to force his way into the team

Needs a run of 60 minutes similar to Woodburn, McKay and GMS. RN has set the stall out for those 4 as 60/30, injuries etc have not given him a similar run

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

Bit more pressure on this one now. Another high profile game Saturday, couple of changes likely but no more I would say.

 

Don't envy Neilson this week, Saturdays result make this the hardest week so far with expectation up. 

 

Most fragile of the players may take a rest, but that really equates to Souttar, Kingsley and currently Boyce, health wise. Not sure he will want to make those changes.

 

Didnt see any sub knocking down the door Saturday in truth

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1 minute ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

Needs a run of 60 minutes similar to Woodburn, McKay and GMS. RN has set the stall out for those 4 as 60/30, injuries etc have not given him a similar run

 

That may well be the case but he at least needs to show that he wants the chance, hasn't exactly burst a gut when coming off the bench

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2 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

There is only one goal scoring midfield ahead of McEneff this season. Therefore, in my opinion, he is up there

Neilson himself said McEneff didn’t deserve to be out the squad. Wouldn’t want Beni or Devlin to drop out at the moment but he has an eye for goal and I’d like to see him get a chance. 

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Kidd’s Boots
Just now, Gimme an H... said:

 

He's no there to score goals - he's there to read the game, close down, win tackles, make interceptions, break up the opposition play. All of which he has done outstandingly so far this season.

 

You simply cannot drop Beni or Devlin on current form.

McEneff does both, and that’s the difference. My point is not that Beni or Devlin have not been outstanding, the point is we need goals from midfield as the system creates the opportunities we are not taking

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

No Baningime, no control of the midfield, less of the ball, more likely to concede, less likely to score.

 

Its that simple

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Kidd’s Boots
Just now, GinRummy said:

Neilson himself said McEneff didn’t deserve to be out the squad. Wouldn’t want Beni or Devlin to drop out at the moment but he has an eye for goal and I’d like to see him get a chance. 

Agreed, dropped points turn on a chance being taken

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Kidd’s Boots
2 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

That may well be the case but he at least needs to show that he wants the chance, hasn't exactly burst a gut when coming off the bench

Judge on 60 mins, if he doesn’t show it he gets hooked like the others. 

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Fozzyonthefence
1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

I think the back 3 or back 5, have been a solid platform and defended excellently for the most part.

 

I'd like us to play 4-3-3 as it retains our forward structure but give us an extra man in midfield. The downside of that is I wouldn't fancy Halkett in a back 4 and Moore / Soapy might be too much like for like. I haven't seen enough of Moore to see what he likes to do and doesn't like to do as a Centerhalf. 

 

If there was a change of shape I think it could be a slight tweak to 5-3-2/3-4-1-2 and playing with an extra striker & Central mid which imo is something that we cannot currently do due to injuries to Boycie and questions over Woodburn and Gnando's form. 

 

For now it's a case of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. We've done well with it bar conceding a shanner of a goal from a throw in, which was just a poor lapse in concentration, an individual error. 


4-3-3 does not give you an extra man in midfield!  Unless you currently only play 2 in midfield!

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5 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Don't mention that game - right up there with my worst matches to watch ever - don't recall a single shot from us

Stendals last match was much worse.

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23 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


4-3-3 does not give you an extra man in midfield!  Unless you currently only play 2 in midfield!

We're currently playing with Beni and Devlin in midfield, so if we added another central mid, we'd have an extra man in midfield, No? 🙄 :stuart:

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Gimme an H...
31 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

McEneff does both, and that’s the difference. My point is not that Beni or Devlin have not been outstanding, the point is we need goals from midfield as the system creates the opportunities we are not taking

 

McEneff is no where near Beni's level. Beni has come in and dominated games. McEneff can't do that.

 

McEneff has scored, what, one goal?

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14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Well done everyone that’s going. 

7F16CFCA-9635-4AE2-AA53-E415D93FD44C.jpeg

Brilliant!! I heard it’s closer to 3500 now

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2 hours ago, Paulp74 said:

I reckon Robbie will stick with the 343 and same players that have done well the last few games and fair enough. 

 

I would like to see us line up in a 4231 as feel it plays Smith and cochrane to their strengths as defenders and gives us an extra attacking player. Having Woodburn more central might suit hi.. better. Something like this:-

 

                        Gordon

Smith  Moore   Souttar  Cochrane

                 Beni        devlin

   Mckay       Woodburn      GMS

         Boyce (if fit) or Gnando

Again what has Craig Halkett done to be dropped ? He will be playing on Wed.

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scott herbertson
36 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Stendals last match was much worse.

 

fortunately I missed that one-there have been many over the years! The thing about the CL St. johnstone game was the lack of heart and negativity of the set up (and I was a CL supporter who really wanted him to succeed)

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maroonlegions
31 minutes ago, Gimme an H... said:

 

McEneff is no where near Beni's level. Beni has come in and dominated games. McEneff can't do that.

 

McEneff has scored, what, one goal?

Sure he is Mcneffs agent..

 

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1 hour ago, PapaShango said:

Also crazy the folk wanting Beni dropped for one under par performance! The guy along with Gordon has probably been our player of the season so far. 

He has to play, 1-0 Hearts, 

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36 minutes ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Again what has Craig Halkett done to be dropped ? He will be playing on Wed.

There’s absolutely no chance Halkett gets dropped. I was one of his biggest detractors in previous seasons but he’s been really good this season. All players have bad moments but Craig makes no more mistakes now than Souttar, Kingsley or even Gordon. 

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I'd play Woodburn through the middle - whether that's a good move or not I don't know? Bring Ginnelly or GMS in and have the front 3 of McKay - Woodburn and Gino/GMS rotating. The central player can play like a false 9. 

 

Gordon

 

Smith

Halkett

Souttar

Kingsley

Cochrane

 

Beni

Devlin

 

McKay

Woodburn

Gino/GMS

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scott herbertson
35 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

I'd play Woodburn through the middle - whether that's a good move or not I don't know? Bring Ginnelly or GMS in and have the front 3 of McKay - Woodburn and Gino/GMS rotating. The central player can play like a false 9. 

 

Gordon

 

Smith

Halkett

Souttar

Kingsley

Cochrane

 

Beni

Devlin

 

McKay

Woodburn

Gino/GMS

 

 

I see what you are at, but I think I'd start with Gnando instead of Gino/GMS and bring them on if it's not working out. I think McKay could drift to either side as it suits  him with Woodburn just behind Gnando

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Kidd’s Boots
1 hour ago, Gimme an H... said:

 

McEneff is no where near Beni's level. Beni has come in and dominated games. McEneff can't do that.

 

McEneff has scored, what, one goal?

In your opinion, and yes 1 of the 6 from our midfield this year, which was scored in less than 10% of game time this season compared to others. Goals win games, especially against teams like Dundee, St Johnstone and others

 

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Fully agree with the gist of throwing on McEneff for Beni is ludicrous. Just stop.

 

I could see putting on McEneff for Woodburn and letting him play in a kind of CAM role with McKay playing wide and switching sides when it suited him. It'd be a bit more like a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-2-1 but that's what Woodburn has been drifting into lately anyway.

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1 hour ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Again what has Craig Halkett done to be dropped ? He will be playing on Wed.

I suppose you could say the same about Moore!

 

I feel Moore gives us more of a presence at the back and Halkett has looked exposed in a back 4. He also lost a poor goal against Welsh at Parkhead. I wouldn't mind Halkett playing either though. Just that Moore would be my preference. 

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3 hours ago, PapaShango said:

Also crazy the folk wanting Beni dropped for one under par performance! The guy along with Gordon has probably been our player of the season so far. 

 

Tough crowd Hearts fans... 🙄

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Gimme an H...
1 hour ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

In your opinion, and yes 1 of the 6 from our midfield this year, which was scored in less than 10% of game time this season compared to others. Goals win games, especially against teams like Dundee, St Johnstone and others

 

 

Yes, in my opinion, obviously.

 

He scored one goal and didn’t stand out in any of his appearances, as much as I had a good feeling about him when he signed.

 

Goals win games but you don’t drop your best player for a boy who has sat on the bench for months just because he scored a goal against Alloa last year FFS 🤣 

 

We’ve got plenty other options to come in and score goals without sacrificing our best player so far this season.

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2 minutes ago, Gimme an H... said:

 

Yes, in my opinion, obviously.

 

He scored one goal and didn’t stand out in any of his appearances, as much as I had a good feeling about him when he signed.

 

Goals win games but you don’t drop your best player for a boy who has sat on the bench for months just because he scored a goal against Alloa last year FFS 🤣 

 

We’ve got plenty other options to come in and score goals without sacrificing our best player so far this season.

Scored a goal against Celtic this season tbf and a lovely finish it was too. Though I do agree, Beni and Devlin start every game, for now at least. 

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Kidd’s Boots
23 minutes ago, Gimme an H... said:

 

Yes, in my opinion, obviously.

 

He scored one goal and didn’t stand out in any of his appearances, as much as I had a good feeling about him when he signed.

 

Goals win games but you don’t drop your best player for a boy who has sat on the bench for months just because he scored a goal against Alloa last year FFS 🤣 

 

We’ve got plenty other options to come in and score goals without sacrificing our best player so far this season.

Cleary a short memory, the clue was this season. Don't think for 1 second that all these stats aren't being looked at. 

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3 hours ago, Gimme an H... said:

 

McEneff is no where near Beni's level. Beni has come in and dominated games. McEneff can't do that.

 

McEneff has scored, what, one goal?

Who is Beni’s level?  I’m jumping in here , so apologies, and I’m not saying Beni should be sacrificed whatsoever.  He’s the first name on the teamsheet just now but we need a threat from centre midfield.  
 

How we go about that is a conundrum because you can’t see Neilson changing much just now in shape or selection. But imo, it’s a managers job to start spotting little things that need to improve before it becomes too much a problem, even if the team is playing relatively well.

 

We can’t keep relying on in game rotation in the wide areas to swing games or kill them off. We were pretty much frozen out in the latter part of the game v Dundee and ran out of ideas.  There needs to be more variety across the team.  Maybe worth putting someone ahead of Beni and Devlin and tweak the shape in the last third?  
 

 

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5 hours ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

Would be happy to stick with 343 as the squad will be comfortable working to this. Woodburn sitting on the bench for 60mins would be my 1st change. He has been a bit petulant in the last few games and Saturday raised his profile to referee’s, Gino in for him. McEneff in for Beni, Halliday out of the match day squad making way for Woodburn on the bench. Options for Haring or Beni coming on depending on situation. Midfield really needs to start contributing goals 

Mceneff for Beni ?!! You is trippin dude

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ScandinavianJambo
2 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

I see what you are at, but I think I'd start with Gnando instead of Gino/GMS and bring them on if it's not working out. I think McKay could drift to either side as it suits  him with Woodburn just behind Gnando

My thoughts completely. I might also want Walker as an impact sub... Just in case... 

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