Alec Baldwin’s prop gun kills cinematographer

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

Absolutely brutal. An accident involving Alec Baldwin discharging a prop gun kills cinematographer Halyna Hutchins. Happened on the set of the movie Rust.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/film/news/alec-baldwin-rust-incident-santa-fe-1235094931/amp/
 

Brings to mind the accident that killed Brandon Lee. Very sad.

[Jamstomorrow]

 An accident or is there skulduggery afoot I wonder?  

[FWJ]

3 hours ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Absolutely brutal. An accident involving Alec Baldwin discharging a prop gun kills cinematographer Halyna Hutchins. Happened on the set of the movie Rust.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/film/news/alec-baldwin-rust-incident-santa-fe-1235094931/amp/
 

Brings to mind the accident that killed Brandon Lee. Very sad.

Poignant and horribly ironic when you read the theme of the film.

[been here before]

There must be an episode of Columbo that covers this.

[Peebo]

Even by the ridiculous standards of gun stories in the US, something doesn’t smell right about this. 

[Der Kaiser]

Alan Partridge did something similar but he bounced back.....  

[Cruyff]

That's ****ing tragic for all concerned. 

[rudi must stay]

Don't believe it for a second. Made up 

[Sharpie]

Or an accident due to an excessively hardened for some reason age or whatever small stopper at the end of the cartridge which is expelled when the  prop gun was discharged.

[Tazio]

49 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Or an accident due to an excessively hardened for some reason age or whatever small stopper at the end of the cartridge which is expelled when the  prop gun was discharged.

Even then it shouldn’t have happened. When prop guns are being used there are certain conventions  in place. The first of those is to never point a gun at someone even if it isn’t loaded as far as you know, just in case someone has prepared it without your knowledge. Any situation where a gun has to be pointed at someone are very strictly controlled and rehearsed under the supervision of the approved person. On a film set with firearms there will be a specialist on site, often from the company that supplies the guns. 
Something has gone very badly wrong here in terms of the safe working methods in place. I’ve seen it mentioned that they may have been doing a shot where he shot towards the camera. If that is the case there is no way anyone should have been behind the camera. Blanks can and do fire out pieces of wadding that may not kill but can blind people so it just isn’t done. To make sure this isn’t a thing a lot of blank firing guns in live setting like theatre vent from the top of the barrel, it happens so quickly people don’t notice where the flames came from. Totally different on a film of course. 

[Cruyff]

Exact same thing happened to Jason Lee, son of Bruce, during the filming of The Crow. You'd have thought after such an incident that it would never be repeated. Alec Baldwin must be inconsolable, what a horrendous accident. 

[highlandjambo3]

Fired many blank rounds during my time in the military so…..without boring the pants off you:

 

all semi or fully automatic guns are gas operated, which means after the firing pin has struck the cap at the base of the bullet and ignited the repellant which creates a gas, the tip (pointy bit) detaches from the case and makes its way down the barrel spinning as the barrel is rifled.  Immediately behind the pointy bit is the same gas trying to get out and it’s only escape route is to head down the path of least resistance as quickly as it can pushing the bullet extremely quickly however (here is the clever bit), partway down the barrel is a wee hole that the gas (still trying to escape) decides to take cos that pesky pointy bit is still blocking the way.  The gas changes it’s direction through this wee hole but comes to a dead end when it runs into a piston and spring but the momentum is now so great that it hits a piston with force which moves all the gubbings backwards (that’s the rifle kick), taking out the empty cartridge just fired and, as the gas (eventually) starts to loose it’s energy, the spring now starts to become the dominant force and moves all the gubbings back forward to their original position, picking up a new bullet on the way…..all very quickly of course 😁.

 

So, what’s that got to do with a film prop gun I hear you ask, well if the prop gun is automatic then it requires the same gas volume in the cartridge to allow the system to reload however, as it’s a blank bullet there is no pointy bit so nothing to hold the gas back however, to ensure the gas does the same trick it would do as explained above, there is a muzzle block (blank firing attachment it’s called) fitted to the end of the rifle to ensure the gas still escapes through the wee hole in the barrel …. Simple yes.

 

This is of course a guess but, if the muzzle block at the end of the barrel is not correctly fitted/loose/damaged then the gas coming down the barrel (at a fair speed) could detach the muzzle block and turn it into a fairly lethal piece of steel over a short distance.  If it was a single shot type of gun like a revolver and no auto reloading was required then there would be no need for a muzzle block at the end of the barrel however, if some foreign object was to accidentally find its way into the open barrel that would also do some damage.

 

The investigation will tell us

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

Seems like the warning signs were there.
 

 

 

[Drew Wallace]

 

Thats scary If true 

[Sharpie]

11 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Fired many blank rounds during my time in the military so…..without boring the pants off you:

 

all semi or fully automatic guns are gas operated, which means after the firing pin has struck the cap at the base of the bullet and ignited the repellant which creates a gas, the tip (pointy bit) detaches from the case and makes its way down the barrel spinning as the barrel is rifled.  Immediately behind the pointy bit is the same gas trying to get out and it’s only escape route is to head down the path of least resistance as quickly as it can pushing the bullet extremely quickly however (here is the clever bit), partway down the barrel is a wee hole that the gas (still trying to escape) decides to take cos that pesky pointy bit is still blocking the way.  The gas changes it’s direction through this wee hole but comes to a dead end when it runs into a piston and spring but the momentum is now so great that it hits a piston with force which moves all the gubbings backwards (that’s the rifle kick), taking out the empty cartridge just fired and, as the gas (eventually) starts to loose it’s energy, the spring now starts to become the dominant force and moves all the gubbings back forward to their original position, picking up a new bullet on the way…..all very quickly of course 😁.

 

So, what’s that got to do with a film prop gun I hear you ask, well if the prop gun is automatic then it requires the same gas volume in the cartridge to allow the system to reload however, as it’s a blank bullet there is no pointy bit so nothing to hold the gas back however, to ensure the gas does the same trick it would do as explained above, there is a muzzle block (blank firing attachment it’s called) fitted to the end of the rifle to ensure the gas still escapes through the wee hole in the barrel …. Simple yes.

 

This is of course a guess but, if the muzzle block at the end of the barrel is not correctly fitted/loose/damaged then the gas coming down the barrel (at a fair speed) could detach the muzzle block and turn it into a fairly lethal piece of steel over a short distance.  If it was a single shot type of gun like a revolver and no auto reloading was required then there would be no need for a muzzle block at the end of the barrel however, if some foreign object was to accidentally find its way into the open barrel that would also do some damage.

 

The investigation will tell us

 

Are those fairly new the blocks, I continuously forget that I am sixty seven years removed from army service and 30 years retired from police service, but never had any kind of training with the type of systems for blanks you are experienced in, and that is one thing I respect highly along with  yourself is your experience. Like I stated blanks to me were always just fed into the weapon,handgun or rifle , were a cartridge, powder loaded with a little round cap like thing inserted into the cartridge case. I never ever wondered what happened to that, and of course being a good soldier never asked.

[highlandjambo3]

The blocks or BFA’s (blank firing attachments) as they are more commonly known are a fairly standard thing in the military, painted yellow so you can see from a distance the weapon is set up for dry training (not live) and, their use is to allow all semi/automatic weapons to realistically do a gas reload.  As I said earlier, I’ve no idea what happened or went wrong on the set but, I do know that our UK military regulations states your not allowed to fire a blank round at anyone closer than 20m. I didn’t mention that the BFA or block still allows some of the gas to escape through the end of the barrel so you still se a flash when the weapon is fired.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Court papers reveal that Alec Baldwin was handed the gun by an Assistant Director who told Baldwin that the gun was unloaded and preceded to shout out "cold gun", which means that the gun was safe.  The court papers also reveal that there was one live round in the gun.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59018391

 

According to the LA Times the head armourer is relatively new to the job.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Jambo-Jimbo

[highlandjambo3]

20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Court papers reveal that Alec Baldwin was handed the gun by an Assistant Director who told Baldwin that the gun was unloaded and preceded to shout out "cold gun", which means that the gun was safe.  The court papers also reveal that there was one live round in the gun.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59018391

 

According to the LA Times the head armourer is relatively new to the job.

A couple of things here are a bit foggy for me……..

 

if the “cold gun” (the yanks do have some elaborate names for stuff), was unloaded, was Baldwin then supposed to insert a blank round for the film scene? If so, he would have noticed that the cold gun did actually have a round in it either live or blank.

 

Did the assistant director check the gun (I’d assume not) before handing the gun over?
 

Is there a written method statement about the use of blank ammunition in film shots….if so, it will clearly identify who is at fault, if not it falls on the guy saying “cold gun” and Baldwin for not checking it.

 

Why are there live rounds on a film set (I know getting guns & ammo in America is as easy as getting water)

 

Im sure that anyone over the age of 5 in American is competent enough to check the condition of a weapon, there is ABSOLUTELY no way you would take a weapon from someone without checking it…….but of course that’s my UK military training kicking in, the yanks are a whole different bread.

 

The new armourer would know a live round from a blank round…..it’s like someone handing you petrol and telling you it’s water, go and chuck it on a fire.

 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

A couple of things here are a bit foggy for me……..

 

if the “cold gun” (the yanks do have some elaborate names for stuff), was unloaded, was Baldwin then supposed to insert a blank round for the film scene? If so, he would have noticed that the cold gun did actually have a round in it either live or blank.

 

Did the assistant director check the gun (I’d assume not) before handing the gun over?
 

Is there a written method statement about the use of blank ammunition in film shots….if so, it will clearly identify who is at fault, if not it falls on the guy saying “cold gun” and Baldwin for not checking it.

 

Why are there live rounds on a film set (I know getting guns & ammo in America is as easy as getting water)

 

Im sure that anyone over the age of 5 in American is competent enough to check the condition of a weapon, there is ABSOLUTELY no way you would take a weapon from someone without checking it…….but of course that’s my UK military training kicking in, the yanks are a whole different bread.

 

The new armourer would know a live round from a blank round…..it’s like someone handing you petrol and telling you it’s water, go and chuck it on a fire.

 

 

 

This a hundred times over. I feel awful of course for the women's family, but also for Alec Baldwin who must feel beside himself so don't want to apportion blame but it's madness to be taking a weapon and firing it without checking it yourself.

[The Real Maroonblood]

The whole episode seems bizarre and tragically someone has lost their life.

[Swanny17]

8 hours ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Seems like the warning signs were there.
 

 

 

The crew walking off was to do with their accommodation. She seems like a female version of Piers Morgan to me.

[Tazio]

57 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

The crew walking off was to do with their accommodation. She seems like a female version of Piers Morgan to me.

The crew walking off was to do with several things, on set safety being one of them. 
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set?fbclid=IwAR3_LDvLa_XukhruyPT5xyZ-PljDTEeBdw8ZAE-M4kD0Fpr1cZ0CpWUHJy4

[superjack]

2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

The blocks or BFA’s (blank firing attachments) as they are more commonly known are a fairly standard thing in the military, painted yellow so you can see from a distance the weapon is set up for dry training (not live) and, their use is to allow all semi/automatic weapons to realistically do a gas reload.  As I said earlier, I’ve no idea what happened or went wrong on the set but, I do know that our UK military regulations states your not allowed to fire a blank round at anyone closer than 20m. I didn’t mention that the BFA or block still allows some of the gas to escape through the end of the barrel so you still se a flash when the weapon is fired.

I was reading that the film is a period western, so more likely a revolver was used. No need for a BFA at all as no gas piston for reloading. In your post further up you said it is the gas piston reloading a weapon that causes the recoil. It is actually the explosion of the gun powder. Some hand guns, the browning 9mm and the walther PP actually use the energy from the recoil to reload the next round.

The worst kick I ever experienced was an old Enfield .303 (no gas piston). Followed by an SLR obviously. 

 

[rudi must stay]

"so we're shootings those hills are we"

[Tazio]

The whole film sounds like a shambles. Bringing in non union crew to replace union crew is never a good sign in the film business. IATSE (the crew union) is hugely powerful in film, theatre, and TV in the states. They’re already threatening strike action over working conditions in general. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

"I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone..." Well Alex?

[highlandjambo3]

31 minutes ago, superjack said:

I was reading that the film is a period western, so more likely a revolver was used. No need for a BFA at all as no gas piston for reloading. In your post further up you said it is the gas piston reloading a weapon that causes the recoil. It is actually the explosion of the gun powder. Some hand guns, the browning 9mm and the walther PP actually use the energy from the recoil to reload the next round.

The worst kick I ever experienced was an old Enfield .303 (no gas piston). Followed by an SLR obviously. 

 

I’m absolutely spot on with my description of gas operated weapons however, You are also correct….it’s called blow back action and does exactly what you said (I had completely forgotten about this as they are now quite rare) blow back was also part of the sterling sub machine guns (SMG) make up, which was faded out in the British army in the 80’s.  Blow back mechanisms are quite outdated now and, gas operation is now the normal.

 

As you said as this is western movie set it’s likely the pistil was a revolver, no reload needed as this is a mechanical revolving from operated by sheer finger force, there is no need for an end cap either but, if something was accidentally lodged down the barrel this would be fired out and could be fatal.

 

The bullet in the barrel is a very snug fit and even a small cap would produce a decent amount of momentum down the barrel.

 

We had a sergeant in our unit who liked to play a prank or two.  He pulled off the tip of a bullet with pliers and emptied out the propellant, put the tip back on, he then made a show of loading the rifle and pointing it at some unsuspecting terrified guy and pulled the trigger (he’d done this before) well, the percussion cap went off and proceeded to fire out the bullet into the shoulder of the terrified guy, albeit at a much reduced velocity…..

court-martial and end of career (burst to corporal but surprisingly not discharged)….absolutely true story

[Tazio]

The more I read about this the more it stinks in terms of on set behaviour. The gun was handed to Baldwin by an assistant director. This shouldn’t happen. The armourer or an assistant should be the one in charge of the weapons at all times. When we use guns, even non firing replicas one person has the keys to the gun cupboard that are kept on the premises and are locked in a safe or lockable key cupboard. They are on a lanyard so when the responsible person (armourer in film sets) takes them at the start of the day they are the only person who can access the gun cupboard and should never hand the gun over and leave them with others unless they are present. I’m also slightly baffled by the presence of live ammo on a set. It may differ in the states with their lenient gun laws but in the UK the weapons hired for a production are adapted and not suitable for live ammo. The main company is Bapty’s, but there are others and the big companies now insist on one of their staff being on set and performers undergoing training before they can use guns on set. the below link being a good example. 
https://www.barearms.co.uk/bare-arms-armoury.html

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

A couple of things here are a bit foggy for me……..

 

if the “cold gun” (the yanks do have some elaborate names for stuff), was unloaded, was Baldwin then supposed to insert a blank round for the film scene? If so, he would have noticed that the cold gun did actually have a round in it either live or blank.

 

Did the assistant director check the gun (I’d assume not) before handing the gun over?
 

Is there a written method statement about the use of blank ammunition in film shots….if so, it will clearly identify who is at fault, if not it falls on the guy saying “cold gun” and Baldwin for not checking it.

 

Why are there live rounds on a film set (I know getting guns & ammo in America is as easy as getting water)

 

Im sure that anyone over the age of 5 in American is competent enough to check the condition of a weapon, there is ABSOLUTELY no way you would take a weapon from someone without checking it…….but of course that’s my UK military training kicking in, the yanks are a whole different bread.

 

The new armourer would know a live round from a blank round…..it’s like someone handing you petrol and telling you it’s water, go and chuck it on a fire.

 

 

Unloaded in one report, loaded in another report.  The term unloaded could simply mean unloaded with live ammo, I don't know.

I'd imagine Baldwin would be handed the gun and his part was to point it and pull the trigger, any checks on the weapon I'd imagine should all have been done prior to Baldwin being handed the gun.  You have to remember this was a film set not a military setting, Baldwin has quite probably fired hundreds of guns over the years, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's never checked one of them prior to firing it and then after he's fired the gun just hands it back to someone, and it's they who clear the chamber etc etc.  I really don't know, I'm just guessing.

 

Live rounds on the film set, could easily be from someone's own gun, and the real bullets somehow got mixed up with the blanks, again it's all just speculation. Out in the desert, snakes or other animals I don't know.

 

All we can say for absolute certainty is that a tragic sequence of events took place which ended up with someone being shot and dying, the what why & how's which led up to the shooting is a matter for the police to unravel, everything else on our part is just guesswork and speculation. 

[Beni]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

The more I read about this the more it stinks in terms of on set behaviour. The gun was handed to Baldwin by an assistant director. This shouldn’t happen. The armourer or an assistant should be the one in charge of the weapons at all times. When we use guns, even non firing replicas one person has the keys to the gun cupboard that are kept on the premises and are locked in a safe or lockable key cupboard. They are on a lanyard so when the responsible person (armourer in film sets) takes them at the start of the day they are the only person who can access the gun cupboard and should never hand the gun over and leave them with others unless they are present. I’m also slightly baffled by the presence of live ammo on a set. It may differ in the states with their lenient gun laws but in the UK the weapons hired for a production are adapted and not suitable for live ammo. The main company is Bapty’s, but there are others and the big companies now insist on one of their staff being on set and performers undergoing training before they can use guns on set. the below link being a good example. 
https://www.barearms.co.uk/bare-arms-armoury.html

 

The entire production sounds shoddy, and the fact that they didn't learn from a near miss a few days previously makes it pretty unforgivable.

Alec Baldwin is a co-producer, so he may be on the hook one way or another.

In notoriously litigious America the producers might be in deep shit if they skimped on public liability insurance. 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Beni

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Beni said:

 

The entire production sounds shoddy, and the fact that they didn't learn from a near miss a few days previously makes it pretty unforgivable.

Alec Baldwin is a co-producer, so he may be on the hook one way or another.

In a notoriously litigious America the producers might be in deep shit if they skimped on public liability insurance.

 

Did hear the words 'low budget' being used in one TV report.

[Beni]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Did hear the words 'low budget' being used in one TV report.

 

Yeah I saw that too. But low budget shouldn't necessary mean shoddy. It's not the first time someone has been fatally shot on the set of a movie.

Corners have been cut, or someone's failed to do their job.

An entirely preventable tragedy by the sound of it.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Yeah I saw that too. But low budget shouldn't necessary mean shoddy. It's not the first time someone has been fatally shot on the set of a movie.

Corners have been cut, or someone's failed to do their job.

An entirely preventable tragedy by the sound of it.

Yeah, you need safety processes and a safety culture in place. Based on what we already know, it appears that both were likely a problem here.

[superjack]

1 hour ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I’m absolutely spot on with my description of gas operated weapons however, You are also correct….it’s called blow back action and does exactly what you said (I had completely forgotten about this as they are now quite rare) blow back was also part of the sterling sub machine guns (SMG) make up, which was faded out in the British army in the 80’s.  Blow back mechanisms are quite outdated now and, gas operation is now the normal.

 

As you said as this is western movie set it’s likely the pistil was a revolver, no reload needed as this is a mechanical revolving from operated by sheer finger force, there is no need for an end cap either but, if something was accidentally lodged down the barrel this would be fired out and could be fatal.

 

The bullet in the barrel is a very snug fit and even a small cap would produce a decent amount of momentum down the barrel.

 

We had a sergeant in our unit who liked to play a prank or two.  He pulled off the tip of a bullet with pliers and emptied out the propellant, put the tip back on, he then made a show of loading the rifle and pointing it at some unsuspecting terrified guy and pulled the trigger (he’d done this before) well, the percussion cap went off and proceeded to fire out the bullet into the shoulder of the terrified guy, albeit at a much reduced velocity…..

court-martial and end of career (burst to corporal but surprisingly not discharged)….absolutely true story

That is some ND that, never heard of an almost deliberate 1. For the SMG, I was RAF and we were behind the other 2 services. Basic training in 1990, women still used the SMG and guys an SLR. Never got to fire an SA80 until 1992 when trade training (I was an armourer) was finished. In fact, I could do a full service on an SA80 long before I had a shot on the range. FWIW, I far preferred the SLR. Always felt safer with 1 of these if I was ever in a position to fire 1 rifle in anger. When you convert an SLR to fully automatic, that's when you really experience a hard recoil! Did you know, the SLR was made to have a fully automatic option, the British decided not to use it so modified the safety catch to remove the option. No accuracy on fully automatic due to the overly aggressive recoil.

Edited October 23, 2021 by superjack
Spelling, as usual.

[highlandjambo3]

5 minutes ago, superjack said:

That is some ND that, never heard of an almost deliberate 1. For the SMG, I was RAF and we were behind the other 2 services. Basic training in 1990, women still used the SMG and guys an SLR. Never got to fire an SA80 until 1992 when trade training (I was an armourer) was finished. In fact, I could do a full service on an SA80 long before I had a shot on the range. FWIW, I far preferred the SLR. Always felt safer with 1 of these if I was ever in a position to fire 1 rifle in anger. When you convert an SLR to fully automatic, that's when you really experience a hard recoil! Did you know, the SLR was made to have a fully automatic option, the British decided not to use it so modified the safety catch to remove the option. No accuracy on fully automatic due to the overly aggressive recoil.

That’s nowt……..knew a corporal in Bosnia at a checkpoint had a negligent discharge with a 30mm sabot round from his warrior 30mm cannon 😂……that would make you jump.

[Sharpie]

Well as it was an old western type movie the weapon now falls into I suspect my time era of weapons.My army weapons were the 303 rifle, bren gun and sten gun., the 303 blanks were as I have stated earlier a cartridge with gun powder and a small plug to hold the powder in the cartridge, reload was by operating the bolt action, no gas involved.  practise with the sten gun, both automatic was with live ammo on the range. In Canada our issue weapon was a Smith and Wesson four inch barrel, plain clothes officers had same make with two inch barrel,senior officers such a myself in latter years used the two inch barrel.

The thing with the hand guns as were the weapons generally seen in old time westerns were cylinder loaded and when a round was fired the cylinder revolved to put the live round in position. My memory states that when I had rounds in the cylinder you could observe part of them so would know the weapon was loaded. I stand to be corrected, and we have an exceptionally well experienced participant in the thread, but from my memory of the cylinder of a revolver the round to be fired would be possibly slightly but visible, the action of either pulling back the hammer or pulling the trigger putting the round into firing position. Again if handed or handling my personal hand gun the first thing I automatically done  was opening the cylinder to check if there were any rounds in there. I have to suspect someone knew well of the loaded with a live round in the weapon, this I would be investigating from the information circulating as a deliberate action rather than an oversight.

[superjack]

23 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

That’s nowt……..knew a corporal in Bosnia at a checkpoint had a negligent discharge with a 30mm sabot round from his warrior 30mm cannon 😂……that would make you jump.

I mind 1 story we were told when we were getting shown how to service and SMG. A squaddie in Northern Ireland, when jumping out the back of a 4 tonner, for some reason he had a round in the chamber of his SMG. The safety catch isn't the most reliable, so when he jumped down, his gun went off which resulted in him shooting and killing his best mate. He got 9 months on D wing.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Didn't realise until now she has a young son. Just tragic all round. Family without a mum, Baldwin fired the gun, assistant director cleared it, armourer in her 20s new to the job presumably prepared it. A few lives are never going to be the same again. 

[Sharpie]

2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I’m absolutely spot on with my description of gas operated weapons however, You are also correct….it’s called blow back action and does exactly what you said (I had completely forgotten about this as they are now quite rare) blow back was also part of the sterling sub machine guns (SMG) make up, which was faded out in the British army in the 80’s.  Blow back mechanisms are quite outdated now and, gas operation is now the normal.

 

As you said as this is western movie set it’s likely the pistil was a revolver, no reload needed as this is a mechanical revolving from operated by sheer finger force, there is no need for an end cap either but, if something was accidentally lodged down the barrel this would be fired out and could be fatal.

 

The bullet in the barrel is a very snug fit and even a small cap would produce a decent amount of momentum down the barrel.

 

We had a sergeant in our unit who liked to play a prank or two.  He pulled off the tip of a bullet with pliers and emptied out the propellant, put the tip back on, he then made a show of loading the rifle and pointing it at some unsuspecting terrified guy and pulled the trigger (he’d done this before) well, the percussion cap went off and proceeded to fire out the bullet into the shoulder of the terrified guy, albeit at a much reduced velocity…..

court-martial and end of career (burst to corporal but surprisingly not discharged)….absolutely true story

 

My service terminated many years ago, but in my Regiment pointing a weapon without due cause at any person was a disciplinary action no no. We had one accidental discharge in Egypt when a man cleaning his 303 rifle failed to check it thoroughly first discharged a round accidentally, it traversed through a number of tents and killed another soldier. The accused was sentenced to Military Prison jail time he never returned to the battalion in either Egypt or London.

[dobmisterdobster]

On 22/10/2021 at 15:04, Cruyff said:

Exact same thing happened to Jason Lee, son of Bruce, during the filming of The Crow. You'd have thought after such an incident that it would never be repeated. Alec Baldwin must be inconsolable, what a horrendous accident. 

 

Brandon Lee. But yeah I immediately thought of him when I heard about this incident. It seems eerily similar.

[Cruyff]

Just now, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Brandon Lee. But yeah I immediately thought of him when I heard about this incident. It seems eerily similar.

I'm shite with names, Jason Lee's the ***** with the pineapple on his head.

 

[highlandjambo3]

17 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

My service terminated many years ago, but in my Regiment pointing a weapon without due cause at any person was a disciplinary action no no. We had one accidental discharge in Egypt when a man cleaning his 303 rifle failed to check it thoroughly first discharged a round accidentally, it traversed through a number of tents and killed another soldier. The accused was sentenced to Military Prison jail time he never returned to the battalion in either Egypt or London.

This was also a contentious issue in Northern Ireland……the SA80 rifle had a scope, first of its kind to be issued to the military as a job lot so, the thing is, when shooting the rifle you of course point it at the target and use the scope to accurately hit the target however, the scope was also handy just as an observation device, of course you still had to point it at someone/something and, understandably that person might well be very jittery about this.  
 

Just to add a bit of meat to the bones, taking this back to Northern Ireland back in the day…..let’s say a known suspected IRA shooter from londonderry hasn’t been seen for a week but, was last seen at a checkpoint heading to Belfast……he has relatives in the new lodge area of Belfast, your on patrol in the new lodge……you are absolutely 100% going to be scanning the place, not to try and find the shooter in his shooting spot (they were to good for that) but, you wanted to be checking groups of people/individuals to see if he is indeed in the area.  This resulted in a lot of rifles being pointed at a lot of people.

[highlandjambo3]

18 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Well as it was an old western type movie the weapon now falls into I suspect my time era of weapons.My army weapons were the 303 rifle, bren gun and sten gun., the 303 blanks were as I have stated earlier a cartridge with gun powder and a small plug to hold the powder in the cartridge, reload was by operating the bolt action, no gas involved.  practise with the sten gun, both automatic was with live ammo on the range. In Canada our issue weapon was a Smith and Wesson four inch barrel, plain clothes officers had same make with two inch barrel,senior officers such a myself in latter years used the two inch barrel.

The thing with the hand guns as were the weapons generally seen in old time westerns were cylinder loaded and when a round was fired the cylinder revolved to put the live round in position. My memory states that when I had rounds in the cylinder you could observe part of them so would know the weapon was loaded. I stand to be corrected, and we have an exceptionally well experienced participant in the thread, but from my memory of the cylinder of a revolver the round to be fired would be possibly slightly but visible, the action of either pulling back the hammer or pulling the trigger putting the round into firing position. Again if handed or handling my personal hand gun the first thing I automatically done  was opening the cylinder to check if there were any rounds in there. I have to suspect someone knew well of the loaded with a live round in the weapon, this I would be investigating from the information circulating as a deliberate action rather than an oversight.

Hi Sharpie, can’t comment on revolvers to much as I’ve never fired one…….6 bullets was never enough for me when I needed them 😂…….I do have a limited grasp of their function though.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Police presser, saying that they recovered 3 guns and around 500 rounds of ammo, which they believe to be a mixture of blanks, dummy and what the police believe are also live rounds, how the live rounds got there is what the police are still investigating. 

The gun in question was a Colt 45 revolver, another Colt 45 which looks like it's been modified and a plastic replica.

 

[Tazio]

Jesus H Christ!

 

 

[Des Lynam]

14 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Jesus H Christ!

 

 

His son is selling t shirts. Toxic *****. 
 

 

https://www.insider.com/donald-trump-jr-sells-alec-baldwin-kills-people-shirts-rust-2021-10?amp

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

His son is selling t shirts. Toxic *****. 
 

 

https://www.insider.com/donald-trump-jr-sells-alec-baldwin-kills-people-shirts-rust-2021-10?amp

It turns out that statement is false, but telling that I saw it in a trusted Twitter feed. He’s made so many ridiculous statements it sees viable. The bit with his son is also not a surprise. 

[Skacelsid]

No surprise in a country where assault rifles can be legally acquired. Should these guns not be completely fake replicas, i.e. they have no firing mechanism or ammunition chambers whatsoever. Which would still require scrutiny. The discussion should not be about blank or dummy bullets, if an accident can happen, it will.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

Jesus H Christ!

 

 

If I was Alec Baldwin, I'd shot this prick, if I was going to jail, anyway.

It's a stitch up.

 

 

Did anyone see the lassie who was the gun expert. Fecking nutter.

[rudi must stay]

Banana's instead of guns in films. Nobody would get hurt