Ben Woodburn

[gregzy2k7]

9 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Same as McKay, just needs to add a goal or two. Both have been really good though - intelligent, creative, skillful footballers.

Yeah agreed, both need a goal, hopefully both will score in our next match, McKay has looked very good so far to be fair.

[Gmcjambo]

1 hour ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Most people can see he has something about him. The fact he has contributed little in the last few games is quite natural to question. He was part of our team that got over ran for the first 45 minutes.

The speed at which McKay, Beni, Devlin, Moore, Cochrane have settled is remarkable, especially given most are pretty young guys.   For some reason Woodburn looks like he’s playing within himself and can offer more.   Not necessarily a bad thing as in my view he does contribute generally and despite our position, this team has another gear to find yet. Think Woodburn will settle and be a big player for us this season, and help us kick on.   

[tamanov]

It says a lot about where we are at the moment that the “worst” player on the pitch for us yesterday was playing in the Liverpool first team not long ago! He didn’t have a bad game, just wasn’t really in the game as much as the others.  
I don’t think he is 100% fit yet as he has played 7 games and been substituted 6 times but you can see in glimpses what an amazing talent he is. Looking forward to seeing him in full flow and banging a few goals in.
We are very lucky to have him 

[johnking123]

He needs a goal or two. Then he will be flying. 

[Gershwin]

I think he needs to be played more centrally. I also feel like he had a bit of chemistry with GMS but since he’s been dropped Ben hasn’t been quite as effective.

[Harry Potter]

52 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

He needs a goal or two. Then he will be flying. 

This.

[bistokid]

51 minutes ago, Gershwin said:

I think he needs to be played more centrally. I also feel like he had a bit of chemistry with GMS but since he’s been dropped Ben hasn’t been quite as effective.

Notable that McKay stays wider than GMS which perhaps makes it harder for Woodburn to link up. Both him and GMS play more centrally and occupy similar spaces.

[BackOfTheNet]

58 minutes ago, Gershwin said:

I think he needs to be played more centrally. I also feel like he had a bit of chemistry with GMS but since he’s been dropped Ben hasn’t been quite as effective.

Have to say this did cross my mind as well. There was a link up forming between Woodburn and GMS. But keeping GMS in to benefit Woodburn would be the wrong move I think, so correct decision to drop GMS. The issue is Boyce is isolated and usually marked by two centre backs, so Woodburn, McKay, GMS etc aren’t confident in playing to ball to Boyce and make a run for a one-two as evidenced multiple times yesterday when they would get the ball, look up, only to turn back and pass back to a wing back. So I think we need Devlin or Baningime to get closer for intricate triangular passing or we need a different outlet with two up top or Gnanduillet up there who showed yesterday that playing up to him means it can stay up there, even if you have to punt it above head height (only for him to jump and chest it down)

[sr2008]

Have a feeling when he gets a goal his confidence will soar and when he does score it’s going to be a worldy, the technique he used in the efforts against Hibs and Motherwell was superb.

 

 

[colinmaroon]

Boyce plays some brilliant INSTINCTIVE one touch passes but he often seems too slow to pass when he has time to think about it.

 

For example, there was one occasion in the first half when he was fouled , dweĺling on the ball, and a first time pass between defenders would have sent McKay (?) through.

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by colinmaroon

[Arry]

Class act … as others have said a goal would have him flying …

[upgotheheads]

6 hours ago, number-16 said:

Someone mentioned this in a Savage Q&A thread not long ago, that Liverpool wanted that but we came to an agreement

 

"We’ve got three loan players and Liverpool demand that we play Woodburn but we came to an agreement with them." -

 

 

He's a bit of an enigma for me. He's definitely not one of these players who you think 'aw naw' when he's on the ball. The good thing is that he always looks comfortable on the ball and he doesn't give it away, on the other hand he never breaks the defensive line with a pass or a run in the way that GMS does.

I've been wondering why GMS or Ginnelly aren't starting games; if it's because Woodburn is guaranteed a start then I'm not sure that should be happening. It also looks to me as if he's not sure whether he's a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder. It will be interesting to see if he develops into one or the other. I remember watching George Fleming for years wondering what kind of player he was, but Jim Mclean new, maybe it's the same with Woodburn.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

He's a bit of an enigma for me. He's definitely not one of these players who you think 'aw naw' when he's on the ball. The good thing is that he always looks comfortable on the ball and he doesn't give it away, on the other hand he never breaks the defensive line with a pass or a run in the way that GMS does.

I've been wondering why GMS or Ginnelly aren't starting games; if it's because Woodburn is guaranteed a start then I'm not sure that should be happening. It also looks to me as if he's not sure whether he's a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder. It will be interesting to see if he develops into one or the other. I remember watching George Fleming for years wondering what kind of player he was, but Jim Mclean new, maybe it's the same with Woodburn.

I find it baffling that folk don’t rate GMS. He’s got 3 goals and 3 assists this season, only Boyce has contributed to more goals. Boyce also seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism. Strange bunch us Hearts supporters….

[JamboAl]

5 hours ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Most people can see he has something about him. The fact he has contributed little in the last few games is quite natural to question. He was part of our team that got over ran for the first 45 minutes.

Not just the last few games but ALL games he has played in so far.  It's time for him to make some sort of impression on games.

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

I find it baffling that folk don’t rate GMS. He’s got 3 goals and 3 assists this season, only Boyce has contributed to more goals. Boyce also seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism. Strange bunch us Hearts supporters….

 

I rate GMS, he can be inconsistent but he always carries a threat, and would start ahead of Woodburn for me but I've noticed over the years that coaches don't always agree with me, George Fleming was a good example, never near a cap, never looked like an athlete but was a mainstay of good Dundee United teams.

[No longer active]

11 hours ago, Barack said:

Thinking more on it; and I'd have to look again, but I wonder as he was the Captain of Gerrard's Liverpool team, did Gerrard get his player's to pay more attention to Woodburn. 

 

He more than most, would know exactly what he's capable of given the space. Admittedly Rangers closed down very well in the 1st half. But he & McKay were our two most creative players on the pitch at KO, and if Woodburn was negated, then it cut off one major outlet in the midfield link to Boyce.

 

He'll come good. He's too good not to.

Totally agree.

 

The lad is very talented and Uber keen. He is doing the best thing for his own career just now, playing well for a Team that has up until this season has  been very mediocre at best. 
 

A few good signings have upped the performance given in virtually all positions and the team is benefitting tremendously! 
 

The bubble may burst - but if we keep youngsters like Woodburn and Cochrane in the team and they continue in the way they have started then their success will be our success even if undoubtedly they move on to bigger clubs

[Unknown user]

Woodburn's quality, you can see the creative ability he's got, he'll find his feet.

[Jamhammer]

Haven’t  seen the game yet but from what I’ve seen I’ve filed him with Hartley. You can see there’s a player there and, when it clicks he could be a boss

[Halliphax]

7 hours ago, number-16 said:

Someone mentioned this in a Savage Q&A thread not long ago, that Liverpool wanted that but we came to an agreement

 

"We’ve got three loan players and Liverpool demand that we play Woodburn but we came to an agreement with them." -

Probably learned from the mistakes of our previous manager with Joel Pereira, didn't he have a clause that meant we had to play him?

[FERRY HEARTS]

Very clever player who just needs a goal under his belt to gain confidence.

we we’re pretty much backs to the wall for 1st hr yesterday and nobody gave us an outlet 

[scott herbertson]

8 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

And here it is. Have a go post . As sure as eggs are eggs there just has to be one

 

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss whether players are good or not as long as it doesn't descend to slagging off. Personally I don't think he's been that good yet and I'm just hoping he improves. I don't think comparisons with GMS or Mackay are that valid as he seems to want to play more centrally. Haven't seen much from him so far so hoping it's just a confidence thing - he seems to be a bit rushed when he gets the ball. Also his career stats don't suggest goals are to be expected - I'd be looking for more assists from him so that final quality pass and link up play is what  I am looking for (but not seeing yet).

 

 

[scott herbertson]

8 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

And here it is. Have a go post . As sure as eggs are eggs there just has to be one

 

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss whether players are good or not as long as it doesn't descend to slagging off. Personally I don't think he's been that good yet and I'm just hoping he improves. I don't think comparisons with GMS or Mackay are that valid as he seems to want to play more centrally. Haven't seen much from him so far so hoping it's just a confidence thing - he seems to be a bit rushed when he gets the ball. Also his career stats don't suggest goals are to be expected - I'd be looking for more assists from him so that final quality pass and link up play is what  I am looking for (but not seeing yet).

 

 

[The Hogfather]

He does a lot of good work and I'd very much love to see him here beyond the summer. But he was poor yesterday, which can happen. Singling players out when we've just protected our unbeaten run in that fashion is ridiculously harsh and unnecessary imo.

[Madjambo21]

I wonder if he could play as the striker. 

I think out wide does not suit him and he is better when drifting in.

 

Clearly a talented footballer just want to see a bit more from him.

 

[Gordon Ramsay]

Definitely talented but he's probably going to have his best games when we're at home against lesser opposition. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

3 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Definitely talented but he's probably going to have his best games when we're at home against lesser opposition. 

Yep and even then, in this league he’s going to be targeted as a “liverpool young star” so all the full backs will be right up for getting in and about him at 100mph. He struggled a bit yesterday and I think maybe a bit nervous, but one thing he is not short of is fitness and running, good engine on him and got all the basics. Wondering if we might see the best of him in an alternate system, as the AM in a diamond or in a 4-2-3-1

[Cruyff]

Good player but he was poor yesterday. Hasn't really happened for him yet. 

[Big Drew]

5 hours ago, tamanov said:

It says a lot about where we are at the moment that the “worst” player on the pitch for us yesterday was playing in the Liverpool first team not long ago! He didn’t have a bad game, just wasn’t really in the game as much as the others.  
I don’t think he is 100% fit yet as he has played 7 games and been substituted 6 times but you can see in glimpses what an amazing talent he is. Looking forward to seeing him in full flow and banging a few goals in.
We are very lucky to have him 

Spot on. Too many ready to have him dumped on the bench because he hasn't reached full match fitness yet. If you've ever played the game, you'll know it takes a while to get back to where your optimum is when you have not been playing for a while at the cutting edge of first team football. This guy will reward the Hearts fans, but he needs games and our encouragement and he's on the cusp of being 'there'.

[colinmaroon]

4 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

I find it baffling that folk don’t rate GMS. He’s got 3 goals and 3 assists this season, only Boyce has contributed to more goals. Boyce also seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism. Strange bunch us Hearts supporters….

 

I think the problem with GMS, and it comes down to individual moments in games.  He seems to be either brilliant in the moment or truly woeful.  There doesn't seem to be consistency in an individual game.

 

"GMS blasts it high and wide" is arguably the most common phrase when he shoots.

 

However, the decision is how do you then use him?

 

 

[sirwalter]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

Woodburn's quality, you can see the creative ability he's got, he'll find his feet.

Absolutely. In a first half in which we battled admirably but were out-classed Woodburn for me was the only Hearts man who looked to have the level of skill shown by Rangers' creative players. He was replaced to help us adopt a more direct style of play. This proved to be a successful tactical switch by Robbie in the circumstances pertaining but is not indicative of an inability of Woodburn to contribute significantly to Hearts' future success.

[dazajmbo]

20 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed it was, who knows what hoes in these squads as Boyce isn’t being picked and Smith wasn’t on the bench for NI 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️? Oh and Stephen O’Donnel is still in the Scotland Squad. 

 

Not sure what the 3 players named above have to do with Woodburn's career. All from different countries for a start. 

 

Boyce & Smith both didn't play for Northern Ireland because the players themselves chose to not be involved in the squad. It has been well documented that they have made themselves unavailable for national team selection for the time being.

 

O'donnel is gash but im struggling to see any other Scottish right back playing week in week out. Even the boy Patterson isnt getting a game. 

[dazajmbo]

1 minute ago, dazajmbo said:

 

Not sure what the 3 players named above have to do with Woodburn's career. All from different countries for a start. 

 

Boyce & Smith both didn't play for Northern Ireland because the players themselves chose to not be involved in the squad. It has been well documented that they have made themselves unavailable for national team selection for the time being.

 

O'donnel is gash but im struggling to see any other Scottish right back playing week in week out. Even the boy Patterson isnt getting a game. 

 

For club*

[bobskeldon]

11 hours ago, Gershwin said:

I think he needs to be played more centrally. I also feel like he had a bit of chemistry with GMS but since he’s been dropped Ben hasn’t been quite as effective.

I agree, He needs to play in front of Beni and Devlin.

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, dazajmbo said:

 

Not sure what the 3 players named above have to do with Woodburn's career. All from different countries for a start. 

 

Boyce & Smith both didn't play for Northern Ireland because the players themselves chose to not be involved in the squad. It has been well documented that they have made themselves unavailable for national team selection for the time being.

 

O'donnel is gash but im struggling to see any other Scottish right back playing week in week out. Even the boy Patterson isnt getting a game. 

The point is something similar might’ve happened with Woodburn, I don’t read the rags so I was out of the loop with the reasons neither were involved with NI, as it was pointed out already and I acknowledged the info. 
As for O’Donnell just because he’s playing doesn’t mean he should be in the squad, Patterson/Fraser/Forrest/Hickey are all better options. 
Same with the Celtic LB he picks, both ex Killie of course. 
Maybe Woodburn doesn’t fit in with what Robert Page wants to do. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

Might well be better as a number ten but it means changing the system and going 4231, whether our current CHs can play effectively in a back four and what the make up of it would be is the question. 

[dazajmbo]

41 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The point is something similar might’ve happened with Woodburn, I don’t read the rags so I was out of the loop with the reasons neither were involved with NI, as it was pointed out already and I acknowledged the info. 
As for O’Donnell just because he’s playing doesn’t mean he should be in the squad, Patterson/Fraser/Forrest/Hickey are all better options. 
Same with the Celtic LB he picks, both ex Killie of course. 
Maybe Woodburn doesn’t fit in with what Robert Page wants to do. 

 

These players were in the squad? Hickey isn't a RB and playing him as RB may well ruin or stall his development 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, dazajmbo said:

 

Not sure what the 3 players named above have to do with Woodburn's career. All from different countries for a start. 

 

Boyce & Smith both didn't play for Northern Ireland because the players themselves chose to not be involved in the squad. It has been well documented that they have made themselves unavailable for national team selection for the time being.

 

O'donnel is gash but im struggling to see any other Scottish right back playing week in week out. Even the boy Patterson isnt getting a game. 

Thought Smith was selected for NI but the hamstring injury he picked up against Motherwell forced him to withdraw? 

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Woodburn is lacking confidence after a few seasons with loans that didn’t come off. He’s obviously a talented player but needs this loan to be a success. Once he scores his first goal hopefully he goes on a run which should see him back in the Wales squad.

 

Don't know if it’s just me but he didn’t look at all happy about being hooked yesterday. Hope he doesn’t take the huff. Not sure why he failed to make an impact at Blackpool in L1 last season. Hope attitude isn’t an issue with the boy.

[Bazzas right boot]

He's a good player, but maybe needs to be more effective. 

He's also very one footed and I'm unsure of his best position. 

 

He's maybe one of those players that although good can't really hold down a position, a bit like Tony Watt. 

 

 

 

[Thomaso]

On 16/10/2021 at 22:55, Smithee said:

 

Boyce has asked not to be picked for the foreseeable future and Smith asked to be left out for Switzerland and Bulgaria

Excellent news! 👍

[jamboinglasgow]

While it would be nice for Woodburn to get a goal, I think he has been a success so far. Just because he is not doing the end bit doesn't mean he is not making a big difference to the team. I think he will get a goal but the thing I do like about this squad is that goals are coming from around the squad so attacking players can bed in without too much pressure.

 

I still believe that Woodburn will still be seen as one of our best performers at the end of the season.

[Deodato]

12 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

Haven’t  seen the game yet but from what I’ve seen I’ve filed him with Hartley. You can see there’s a player there and, when it clicks he could be a boss

 

@Jamhammer love this. And when Hartley clicked, it really did click. 

[scott herbertson]

I understand why people are saying a goal would give him confidence - I'm sure it does for any player - but his past record is not as a  goalscorer - as far as I can see he played over twenty league games for Blackpool Oxford and Liverpool before he came to us and has scored 1 league goal. I'm guessing he has been brought in more for his link up play to support Boyce/ create openings for GMS/ Mackay and crosses for Gnanduilet.

 

I would judge whether he is contributing mainly from whether the team wins when he plays, then from stats like assists.

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, dazajmbo said:

 

These players were in the squad? Hickey isn't a RB and playing him as RB may well ruin or stall his development 

He can play RB easily, yes they were in the squad and two of them played ahead of O’Donnnell thankfully. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Glamorgan Jambo said:

Woodburn is lacking confidence after a few seasons with loans that didn’t come off. He’s obviously a talented player but needs this loan to be a success. Once he scores his first goal hopefully he goes on a run which should see him back in the Wales squad.

 

Don't know if it’s just me but he didn’t look at all happy about being hooked yesterday. Hope he doesn’t take the huff. Not sure why he failed to make an impact at Blackpool in L1 last season. Hope attitude isn’t an issue with the boy.

Yeah he wasn’t happy but that’s a good thing. 
I would let him take the next penalty we get to score and help his confidence. 

[JimmyCant]

I wonder what the agreement is that we reached with Liverpool. Has to start a certain number of games but not every game? Something like that I’d imagine. Time will tell if we’ve reached a good agreement or not I suppose. Is guaranteed game time a good thing to be doing anyway, when we’ve got GMS and Ginelly ?

[Naisys Tackle]

He won’t make it up here.  He will end up fantastic in the Championship at his peak.  Barry Bannan like. 

[Naisys Tackle]

53 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I wonder what the agreement is that we reached with Liverpool. Has to start a certain number of games but not every game? Something like that I’d imagine. Time will tell if we’ve reached a good agreement or not I suppose. Is guaranteed game time a good thing to be doing anyway, when we’ve got GMS and Ginelly ?

Nah I think we’ve been scunnered by the ngoos before.  Ben I don’t think had to play as far as what I’ve seen.  We develop him here’s more chance of getting more in the future too though. 

[JimmyCant]

24 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Nah I think we’ve been scunnered by the ngoos before.  Ben I don’t think had to play as far as what I’ve seen.  We develop him here’s more chance of getting more in the future too though. 

Savage says Liverpool wanted him played every game but we reached ‘an agreement’

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

I hope we’d never ever take a player on loan who we’re instructed has to play every game unless injured. We learned the hard way if the rumors concerning Butter Fingers are true.