Thinking ahead

[Jambo61]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Oh dear

 

Completely ignoring all the points made against your argument and now recycling it.

 

Terrible post.

What points...........so far you are pointless!

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Jambo61 said:

What points...........so far you are pointless!

 

Truly shite patter, as hopeless as your argument.

 

Blackburn, seriously 

[Jambo61]

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Truly shite patter, as hopeless as your argument.

 

Blackburn, seriously 

*****....the thinking mans void!

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Jambo61 said:

*****....the thinking mans void!

 

Its like playing chess with a pigeon.

[Greedy Jambo]

Thinking ahead on JBK? nahhhhhhhhhh, 

[Vlad Magic]

2 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

Thinking ahead on JBK? nahhhhhhhhhh, 

What’s your username name on Talk Hearts?

[Greedy Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

What’s your username name on Talk Hearts?

 

Talk Hearts? 

[Vlad Magic]

4 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

Talk Hearts? 

Yup Talk Hearts.

 

2 words. First “Talk”. Second “Hearts”.

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, Boris said:

 

You must forgive my ignorance, but what has dramatically changed between now and then?

Since December 18, she didn’t sack Levein quick enough, took far too long to appoint a successor, decisions that saw us bottom of the league and demoted, sacked that successor without telling him, paid compensation for Neilson, still not finished the stand, got taken for a mug by the SPFL and it’s come to light just how much nepotism and jobs for the boys/girls she has done, now it’s extremely difficult to get rid of her even if we wanted to. 
 

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, Jambo61 said:

Dear oh dear:

 

1) 2 votes v 4 on a loaded board format, can't remember if it is 6, I know it is a minority including any sub-committees!

2) Football inflation includes every expenditure but particularly transfer fees/ agents fees/ wages/ signing on fees/ add-ons e.g. cheap mortgages to assist players relocating etc etc etc. If you are attempting to remain competitive you can only remain 'within budget' for a certain period, then fall away as competitors take the risk you can't!

3) Budgie seems to regard 'ordinary' shares above FoH!

 

Read it in conjunction with the Blackburn Rovers scenario in another post! Failed within 8 years of Jack Walkers post death Trust! Good intentions can have negative impact!

 

The FoH model is designed for mediocrity/ stagnation/ limits growth options etc!!!!!!

Ordinary inflation will undermine the values of donations over time unless growth in numbers/ values......which is fair to assume is limited!

I have to admit to finding some of your  points hard to follow.  However its clear you think the FoH ownership model is flawed and doomed to start limiting the club's ambitions at some stage in the next 10 years - fair enough, thats your view.   You're mixing 2 things up though -

 

1) the ownership of the majority shareholding by FoH.

2) the level of ongoing (and unnecessary for any repayment purposes) fan contributions each month   

 

Taking the first one, the purpose of FoH  is to make it very difficult (but not  impossible - in theory anyway) to sell a majority shareholding to a wealthy group of outside investors.  Are you for or against that ?  We could debate all night the  merits of the failed attempt to reduce the voting threshold down to 75%.  

 

On the second point, there is no need for fans to continue donating money each month - the Bidco loan has been repaid.   That's what the FoH model was.     There was no expectation that members had to continue after the share transfer.       But we continue to do it through sheer love for Hearts.   Would you prefer that we just stopped now because inflation will eat into the value of our donations over time ?  If you're worried that £1.5m per year extra income from fans will only cover  £1m worth of expenditure in 10 or 15 years time, what do you propose we fans do ?

 

You seem to be condemning the goodwill and generosity of the most important people in the Hearts family because of your desire to see us compete with the Bigot Brothers for the league title.  

 

It's not Hearts fault or our fault that their income is 10-20 times ours - blame the SFA/SPFL/Doncaster/biased media/etc  for tolerating and indeed celebrating the obscene bigotry which underpins the continuing domination of these 2 in Scotland. 

 

In short, what's your alternative suggestion  for funding  Hearts in the future ? 

 

  

[Boris]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Since December 18, she didn’t sack Levein quick enough, took far too long to appoint a successor, decisions that saw us bottom of the league and demoted, sacked that successor without telling him, paid compensation for Neilson, still not finished the stand, got taken for a mug by the SPFL and it’s come to light just how much nepotism and jobs for the boys/girls she has done, now it’s extremely difficult to get rid of her even if we wanted to. 
 

Yeah, but she no longer owns the club, the FoH does.

 

I don't see what point you are making. Are you saying that the FoH are not really in charge?

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

Yeah, but she no longer owns the club, the FoH does.

 

I don't see what point you are making. Are you saying that the FoH are not really in charge?

Who makes the final decision on a new manager, who is the Chairmen in charge of the whole club with nodding dogs (apart from Anderson) on the board and at CEO?

The point is Budge still is overall control of the club, and it’s extremely difficult to change it, she set it up that way. 

[Jambo61]

14 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I have to admit to finding some of your  points hard to follow.  However its clear you think the FoH ownership model is flawed and doomed to start limiting the club's ambitions at some stage in the next 10 years - fair enough, thats your view.   You're mixing 2 things up though -

 

1) the ownership of the majority shareholding by FoH.

2) the level of ongoing (and unnecessary for any repayment purposes) fan contributions each month   

 

Taking the first one, the purpose of FoH  is to make it very difficult (but not  impossible - in theory anyway) to sell a majority shareholding to a wealthy group of outside investors.  Are you for or against that ?  We could debate all night the  merits of the failed attempt to reduce the voting threshold down to 75%.  

 

On the second point, there is no need for fans to continue donating money each month - the Bidco loan has been repaid.   That's what the FoH model was.     There was no expectation that members had to continue after the share transfer.       But we continue to do it through sheer love for Hearts.   Would you prefer that we just stopped now because inflation will eat into the value of our donations over time ?  If you're worried that £1.5m per year extra income from fans will only cover  £1m worth of expenditure in 10 or 15 years time, what do you propose we fans do ?

 

You seem to be condemning the goodwill and generosity of the most important people in the Hearts family because of your desire to see us compete with the Bigot Brothers for the league title.  

 

It's not Hearts fault or our fault that their income is 10-20 times ours - blame the SFA/SPFL/Doncaster/biased media/etc  for tolerating and indeed celebrating the obscene bigotry which underpins the continuing domination of these 2 in Scotland. 

 

In short, what's your alternative suggestion  for funding  Hearts in the future ? 

 

  

Why is it a negative to say that the structure is not long term? It isn't. It is a safety net.

I applaud the FoH and the success, I'm part of it after all and expect no thanks/ return! The club is saved after all.

The header was thinking ahead, was it not?

We have limited room for growth, fact! Only so many seats to sell above norm, only so many interested in hospitality, only so many over-priced shirts to sell etc.

We have diminishing tv returns, fact! The GFA wet themselves at getting rates we lost years ago.

Personally I'm for owning your own home tv rights and selling your own channel!

We have limited borrowing arrangements, fact! We don't really want debts anyway, obviously.

The ownership of the majority shareholding is a simple fact, never disputed! In stone.

The level of ongoing monthly contributions is likely finite and may have reached the peak, my opinion! Diluted over time by inflation, unless we are really really fortunate. Fact.

I thought I'd clearly said the FoH ownership limited options, in the short-term I'm for that, but it does hamstring some future options, no denying! Many on here seem to think it is job done, Fact!

I'm arguing that to be 3rd best, or whatever the aim, we are fighting with an arm tied behind our backs, for the best of intentions, Fact!

I do blame the GFA/ Tic/ Huns..........and the remainder who allowed it to happen, Fact!

But blindly saying, this is it, we play the hand dealt cannot lead to other than mediocrity unless we get lucky on the transfer market long-term, and who does that?

 

[Jambo61]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Its like playing chess with a pigeon.

Sums you up, try a chess set!

[Boris]

10 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Who makes the final decision on a new manager, who is the Chairmen in charge of the whole club with nodding dogs (apart from Anderson) on the board and at CEO?

The point is Budge still is overall control of the club, and it’s extremely difficult to change it, she set it up that way. 

 

I thought Budge had moved to off the park stuff, and McKinlay was the footballing side?

 

I can sort of see your misgivings, but my own view is we are in a new era and any prevarication as seen previously will not be tolerated.

 

What would you have rather seen happen?

[Lone Striker]

12 hours ago, Jambo61 said:

Why is it a negative to say that the structure is not long term? It isn't. It is a safety net.

I applaud the FoH and the success, I'm part of it after all and expect no thanks/ return! The club is saved after all.

The header was thinking ahead, was it not?

We have limited room for growth, fact! Only so many seats to sell above norm, only so many interested in hospitality, only so many over-priced shirts to sell etc.

We have diminishing tv returns, fact! The GFA wet themselves at getting rates we lost years ago.

Personally I'm for owning your own home tv rights and selling your own channel!

We have limited borrowing arrangements, fact! We don't really want debts anyway, obviously.

The ownership of the majority shareholding is a simple fact, never disputed! In stone.

The level of ongoing monthly contributions is likely finite and may have reached the peak, my opinion! Diluted over time by inflation, unless we are really really fortunate. Fact.

I thought I'd clearly said the FoH ownership limited options, in the short-term I'm for that, but it does hamstring some future options, no denying! Many on here seem to think it is job done, Fact!

I'm arguing that to be 3rd best, or whatever the aim, we are fighting with an arm tied behind our backs, for the best of intentions, Fact!

I do blame the GFA/ Tic/ Huns..........and the remainder who allowed it to happen, Fact!

But blindly saying, this is it, we play the hand dealt cannot lead to other than mediocrity unless we get lucky on the transfer market long-term, and who does that?

 

OK - I agree with some that.   But as another poster mentioned a page further back, most of the "facts" you mention affect every other team (outside of the OF) too - surely we're better placed than all of them because our fans are pumping in an extra £1.5 on top of 13k STs.   So if the club can't make a decent effort at winning a Cup or finishing 3rd most seasons,  then there's something wrong within the club (some will say RN is that something  !) 

 

Also, just remember that half of the teams in our league rely on visiting fans for financial survival.  We don't (or not to anything like the same extent anyway) 

 

You've touched on a very significant other source of income, which also happens to be crucial to the performance of the team  - namely clever and informed recruitment of young players "on the rise".    Sad to say, Hibs did it with McGinn - helped them win a Cup, earned them a hefty transfer fee and will earn them more when he moves on from Villa.     Joe Savage and William Lancefield have a decent track record of spotting a few of these types of players early  - so hopefully this helps Hearts on & off the field for many years to come.

 

Hamstrung ?     Not if the club is being run well

Fighting with one arm tied behind our back ?   As above.

 

Maybe its a good  thing to believe we're locked into mediocrity though - then you'll be pleasantly surprised when  we finish 3rd or win a Cup 😀

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, Boris said:

 

I thought Budge had moved to off the park stuff, and McKinlay was the footballing side?

 

I can sort of see your misgivings, but my own view is we are in a new era and any prevarication as seen previously will not be tolerated.

 

What would you have rather seen happen?

I doubt that McKinlay would have the final say on replacing the manager, that would be the boards decision on which his wife sits on and Budge has the final say. 
I would rather the FoH find someone different to be chair person through a proper process, as we are due her £3.1m that she loaned to us because of her own mistakes and her shareholding she would still be offered a place on the board as that’s apparently the done thing.

Savage has done a brilliant job so far with recruitment, whether McKinlay can shake up the rest of the club remains to be seen, has he done anything of note in over a year? 

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

I doubt that McKinlay would have the final say on replacing the manager, that would be the boards decision on which his wife sits on and Budge has the final say. 
I would rather the FoH find someone different to be chair person through a proper process, as we are due her £3.1m that she loaned to us because of her own mistakes and her shareholding she would still be offered a place on the board as that’s apparently the done thing.

Savage has done a brilliant job so far with recruitment, whether McKinlay can shake up the rest of the club remains to be seen, has he done anything of note in over a year? 

Doesn’t look like his wife is on the board but he is. 
 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC005863/officers

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Doesn’t look like his wife is on the board but he is. 
 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC005863/officers

I can’t find much about her, her name is Leslie Blair and is listed as the Central Services Director and club lawyer. She’s been at the club since 2016 and obviously put her husband forward for the job. Eric Hogg isn’t listed on that link either but is on the clubs website. 
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/lesley-blair-49985a81

[iwasthere1954]

19 hours ago, Jambo61 said:

Dear oh dear:

 

1) 2 votes v 4 on a loaded board format, can't remember if it is 6, I know it is a minority including any sub-committees!

2) Football inflation includes every expenditure but particularly transfer fees/ agents fees/ wages/ signing on fees/ add-ons e.g. cheap mortgages to assist players relocating etc etc etc. If you are attempting to remain competitive you can only remain 'within budget' for a certain period, then fall away as competitors take the risk you can't!

3) Budgie seems to regard 'ordinary' shares above FoH!

 

Read it in conjunction with the Blackburn Rovers scenario in another post! Failed within 8 years of Jack Walkers post death Trust! Good intentions can have negative impact!

 

The FoH model is designed for mediocrity/ stagnation/ limits growth options etc!!!!!!

Ordinary inflation alone will undermine the values of donations over time unless growth in numbers/ values......which is fair to assume is limited!

You put forward a fair argument.  However Budgie. That's vermin style. Can you explain that one in your usual eloquent style.

 

[davemclaren]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I can’t find much about her, her name is Leslie Blair and is listed as the Central Services Director and club lawyer. She’s been at the club since 2016 and obviously put her husband forward for the job. Eric Hogg isn’t listed on that link either but is on the clubs website. 
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/lesley-blair-49985a81

Eric Hogg resigned from the board. She might have director in her title but she’s not a board director. 

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Eric Hogg resigned from the board. She might have director in her title but she’s not a board director. 

I thought he had but he’s still on it according to the Hearts website 😆. 
Looks like she’s not on the board after all, my bad 🙌. 

[Jambo61]

21 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

You put forward a fair argument.  However Budgie. That's vermin style. Can you explain that one in your usual eloquent style.

 

I think it is fare to say by comments on here some members of the FoH have always felt held at arms length/ looked down upon by Mrs B (is that better)! I thought Budgie was quite friendly!

It is a bit funny that worthless 'original' shares seem to be held in a higher regard/ retain more influence than FoH by her/ the board! What I'm saying is, to all intents and purposes all shares are equally worthless! FoH has been designed not to be sold (as a whole).

[Stu_HMFC]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I thought he had but he’s still on it according to the Hearts website 😆. 
Looks like she’s not on the board after all, my bad 🙌. 

Always thought our board room was run like this 😂😂😂

 

 

 

From 1 minute 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Always thought our board room was run like this 😂😂😂

 

 

 

From 1 minute 

Hahahahaha and Robbie got the LIDL biscuits after a bad result 😆

[Stu_HMFC]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Hahahahaha and Robbie got the LIDL biscuits after a bad result 😆

Here’s the best one 😂😂😂

 

Would of been Berra when Stendal ruined his life and his wedding 😂

 

 

From a minute the boardroom scene 😂😂

 

[davemclaren]

33 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I thought he had but he’s still on it according to the Hearts website 😆. 
Looks like she’s not on the board after all, my bad 🙌. 

Need updated. 😄

[davemclaren]

29 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

I think it is fare to say by comments on here some members of the FoH have always felt held at arms length/ looked down upon by Mrs B (is that better)! I thought Budgie was quite friendly!

It is a bit funny that worthless 'original' shares seem to be held in a higher regard/ retain more influence than FoH by her/ the board! What I'm saying is, to all intents and purposes all shares are equally worthless! FoH has been designed not to be sold (as a whole).

All shares have equal voting rights and FoH now own most of them. 

[Rogue Daddy]

20 minutes ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Here’s the best one 😂😂😂

 

Would of been Berra when Stendal ruined his life and his wedding 😂

 

 

From a minute the boardroom scene 😂😂

 

Quality!🤣🤣🤣

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Need updated. 😄

If only there was someone who knew about IT or we had a sponsor like Dell perhaps 🤔?

Maybe sort us out with WiFi in and around the stadium also. 

[Stu_HMFC]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

If only there was someone who knew about IT or we had a sponsor like Dell perhaps 🤔?

Maybe sort us out with WiFi in and around the stadium also. 

Remember the days when fans would jump on the kickback and moan because too many fans were not paying attention to the match and more on the phones checking their football coupons 😂

 

Ah they were the days haha!

[Pasquale for King]

28 minutes ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Here’s the best one 😂😂😂

 

Would of been Berra when Stendal ruined his life and his wedding 😂

 

 

From a minute the boardroom scene 😂😂

 

Really is a brilliant show 😆

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Remember the days when fans would jump on the kickback and moan because too many fans were not paying attention to the match and more on the phones checking their football coupons 😂

 

Ah they were the days haha!

Indeed 😂. A diversion would’ve been good these last few years, not a problem just now though thankfully. Saturday night be different with Livi camped in their box and the Ryder cup on ⛳️🏌🏿‍♂️.