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jonesy

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15 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Yes, but what's that got to do with evidence of the supernatural?  Organised religion might be bollocks to one person and not to another, but it isn't evidence of the existence of the supernatural.  On the other hand, it is evidence of people's willingness to - to use my language above - fill in the gaps in their knowledge with someone else's imagination, and allow themselves to be organised into groups for that purpose.

A wiser man than me once said 

 

“Absence of proof is not proof of absence”

 

Belief/Faith by its nature is not something you can prove.

 

Ghosts, for instance. I’ve never seen one but I know a few pretty rational folk who have or believe they have.

 

I think, in a multicultural society learning about faiths out with the one you are familiar with can only help you understand the world.

 

It may be imagination/superstition 

 

Personally I’d like to think there is “something” after death.

I’d love to see my Mum again.

It gives me comfort to think I might.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

A wiser man than me once said 

 

“Absence of proof is not proof of absence”

 

Belief/Faith by its nature is not something you can prove.

 

Ghosts, for instance. I’ve never seen one but I know a few pretty rational folk who have or believe they have.

 

I think, in a multicultural society learning about faiths out with the one you are familiar with can only help you understand the world.

 

It may be imagination/superstition 

 

Personally I’d like to think there is “something” after death.

I’d love to see my Mum again.

It gives me comfort to think I might.

 

 

 

 

 

Belief is really easy to prove.  Faith exists, we've all seen evidence of that.  Faith can be extraordinarily positive, I've certainly seen plenty of evidence of that. Organised religion clearly exists, and there's plenty of evidence of that.  But they're not creations of gods.  They're human creations, and there is plenty of evidence to support a humanistic explanation for them.

 

No-one's ever seen a ghost, though plenty of people think they have, and plenty of people (myself included) have had spooky experiences.

 

I used to occasionally regret not thinking that there is 'something' after death.  I regretted my own awareness of how things are, and thought my smart-arsed mind had played a terrible prank on me, by denying me the comfort of hoping I might see the people I've lost along the way again.  But it doesn't matter how comforting a thought is, or how ugly a fact is.  What really matters is what is.  The universe is a wonderful place, though I sometimes wonder will it become a better one when our species disappears.  It doesn't need magic to become a better one.  So now I get my comfort from knowing who the people I've lost were when they were here, and from remembering how they made things better.

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9 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Belief is really easy to prove.  Faith exists, we've all seen evidence of that.  Faith can be extraordinarily positive, I've certainly seen plenty of evidence of that. Organised religion clearly exists, and there's plenty of evidence of that.  But they're not creations of gods.  They're human creations, and there is plenty of evidence to support a humanistic explanation for them.

 

No-one's ever seen a ghost, though plenty of people think they have, and plenty of people (myself included) have had spooky experiences.

 

I used to occasionally regret not thinking that there is 'something' after death.  I regretted my own awareness of how things are, and thought my smart-arsed mind had played a terrible prank on me, by denying me the comfort of hoping I might see the people I've lost along the way again.  But it doesn't matter how comforting a thought is, or how ugly a fact is.  What really matters is what is.  The universe is a wonderful place, though I sometimes wonder will it become a better one when our species disappears.  It doesn't need magic to become a better one.  So now I get my comfort from knowing who the people I've lost were when they were here, and from remembering how they made things better.

 

Having lost parents, sister, daughter , and wife I thought I had been exposed to all the education life brings about death. For some reason possibly because I have been an A'hole since birth i have been offered lots of religious advice, about everything including death. I went through phases in life where death or thought of it could terrify me, I saw lots of dead people, and the thing that always seemed to strike my mind was, just how really dead they were.

 When speaking to the hospital staff they talked about my wife how she would be going to a place where she would again be with her family, our daughter, who had all passed before. In the last year I have developed a new outlook, I have at least sitting here  no fear of death, I have no real belief that I will meet all those who mattered in this life. I have regular contact with my wife, but not in a spiritual sense. I will be doing something and will reflect on what she might have said, and  talk in my mind to her, and she responds. This though is not spiritual it is a replaying of stored memories, Esther is gone, I will go and when I do I will be in exactly the same condition I was on Sept 24th, 1642, non existent, non thinking non alive, and with no future, and no ability to consider a past. 

Its just like when the old car won't start the mechanic will tell you the battery is deid, you will have to get a new one. They may be able to use some of the parts, but that battery just like I will be is deid, going nowhere and knowing nothing. And again I quote my old mother, and my wife who preached the same epitaph, I will be glad of the rest.

 

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On 24/09/2021 at 09:40, 1953 said:

Death will come to us all at some point but we don't know when that might be. I lost my youngest son in an accident 9 months ago and have just found out that a good friend has terminal cancer so the moral of the story is get out there and live your life now because you just don't know when it will end. 

Very true and so sorry To hear about your son . I think the lose of a child must be an awful pain to experience . I know my mum was inconsolable when one of my brothers died tragically a few years back . 

9 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

Having lost parents, sister, daughter , and wife I thought I had been exposed to all the education life brings about death. For some reason possibly because I have been an A'hole since birth i have been offered lots of religious advice, about everything including death. I went through phases in life where death or thought of it could terrify me, I saw lots of dead people, and the thing that always seemed to strike my mind was, just how really dead they were.

 When speaking to the hospital staff they talked about my wife how she would be going to a place where she would again be with her family, our daughter, who had all passed before. In the last year I have developed a new outlook, I have at least sitting here  no fear of death, I have no real belief that I will meet all those who mattered in this life. I have regular contact with my wife, but not in a spiritual sense. I will be doing something and will reflect on what she might have said, and  talk in my mind to her, and she responds. This though is not spiritual it is a replaying of stored memories, Esther is gone, I will go and when I do I will be in exactly the same condition I was on Sept 24th, 1642, non existent, non thinking non alive, and with no future, and no ability to consider a past. 

Its just like when the old car won't start the mechanic will tell you the battery is deid, you will have to get a new one. They may be able to use some of the parts, but that battery just like I will be is deid, going nowhere and knowing nothing. And again I quote my old mother, and my wife who preached the same epitaph, I will be glad of the rest.

 

Yes I think people live on if you remember them . You can lie down relax and just think about them and they are back with you . Or when you talk about them to others who also knew them . 

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10 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Belief is really easy to prove.  Faith exists, we've all seen evidence of that.  Faith can be extraordinarily positive, I've certainly seen plenty of evidence of that. Organised religion clearly exists, and there's plenty of evidence of that.  But they're not creations of gods.  They're human creations, and there is plenty of evidence to support a humanistic explanation for them.

 

No-one's ever seen a ghost, though plenty of people think they have, and plenty of people (myself included) have had spooky experiences.

 

I used to occasionally regret not thinking that there is 'something' after death.  I regretted my own awareness of how things are, and thought my smart-arsed mind had played a terrible prank on me, by denying me the comfort of hoping I might see the people I've lost along the way again.  But it doesn't matter how comforting a thought is, or how ugly a fact is.  What really matters is what is.  The universe is a wonderful place, though I sometimes wonder will it become a better one when our species disappears.  It doesn't need magic to become a better one.  So now I get my comfort from knowing who the people I've lost were when they were here, and from remembering how they made things better.

Well one of us is wrong mucker

Hopefully it’s you 😀

We’re all gonna find out for sure at some point. Of that we can be certain 

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On 25/09/2021 at 12:27, Jamhammer said:

Well one of us is wrong mucker

Hopefully it’s you 😀

We’re all gonna find out for sure at some point. Of that we can be certain 

 

Sorry, but you know I have to disagree with you there.  My own view is that none of us will be finding anything out.

 

By the way, given the thousands of different supreme beings humans have created over the millennia, have you considered the possibility that we're both wrong?

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rudi must stay
On 24/09/2021 at 09:40, 1953 said:

Death will come to us all at some point but we don't know when that might be. I lost my youngest son in an accident 9 months ago and have just found out that a good friend has terminal cancer so the moral of the story is get out there and live your life now because you just don't know when it will end. 

 

If you don't face a toxic world every day as someone with a disability then you can do that. I am so fed up with arseholes ruining my life, I am afraid to leave the house most days. It is a toxic world for those different in the UK 

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3 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

If you don't face a toxic world every day as someone with a disability then you can do that. I am so fed up with arseholes ruining my life, I am afraid to leave the house most days. It is a toxic world for those different in the UK 

I'm sorry that you have to experience that. The toxicity isn't limited to UK. This pandemic has shown the human race at it's best and worst and it saddens me.

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rudi must stay
7 minutes ago, Pagey said:

I'm sorry that you have to experience that. The toxicity isn't limited to UK. This pandemic has shown the human race at it's best and worst and it saddens me.

 

I have experienced it all my life

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16 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Sorry, but you know I have to disagree with you there.  My own view is that none of us will be finding anything out.

 

By the way, given the thousands of different supreme beings humans have created over the millennia, have you considered the possibility that we're both wrong?

I meant there’s “something” when we die or there’s “the void”

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2 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

I meant there’s “something” when we die or there’s “the void”

 

If the "something" isn't exactly what someone's holy scripture says it is, do they just get to be disappointed or do they suffer eternal damnation for backing the wrong spiritual horse?  If it turns out that some minor sect with only a couple of hundred thousand followers win the jackpot, there's gonna be a lot of very pissed off Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs and Atheists. 

 

Together. 

 

In the one place. 

 

Sounds like the very definition of Hell.  :laugh:

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6 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

If the "something" isn't exactly what someone's holy scripture says it is, do they just get to be disappointed or do they suffer eternal damnation for backing the wrong spiritual horse?  If it turns out that some minor sect with only a couple of hundred thousand followers win the jackpot, there's gonna be a lot of very pissed off Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs and Atheists. 

 

Together. 

 

In the one place. 

 

Sounds like the very definition of Hell.  :laugh:

As long as me Mums there I’ll be in good company 

I don’t live my life in order to have a better afterlife 

I live it in a way that makes me and my family happy 

I don’t go to any religious services

I occasionally light a candle in a place of worship for people I’ve lost

There are a lot of good things in the bible

There are a lot of despicable things

(Slavery, homophobia, Sexism and Misogony)

I’m a seeker. 

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Craigieboy
On 24/09/2021 at 02:26, Sharpie said:

Not door knocking but my wifes brother since her death has been phoning me regularly, to see how I am doing and of course to impart his Jehovah Witness spiel. The last time a couple of weeks ago I lost my temper and let it all out. A few days ago  I open my mail box and again as has happened before there is an envelope containing JW literature which was promptly assigned to the garbage basket. 

I have taken the time to do some research on the JW religion. I intend to interject my knowledge on its 1800's founder, the fact there I believe is no Jehovah in the Bible but that name is taken from a translation of a word used by the Jewish. I am interested to hear his responses if he does ever call me again.

 

 

Jehovah's Witnesses surprisingly rarely go challenged during their conversion work. Either people are just disinterested or they will come out with unreasonable and angry rants toward them.

 

If anyone is interested in 'reaching' or 'waking up' a JW I wouldn't advise angry or disrespectful opposition (I'm not saying that you're doing it). They are trained from infancy to view opposition as a tool of the devil and as persecution which just reaffirms their belief that the world is 'against them' or 'hates them' as Jesus taught his followers would be in the bible.

 

To reach a JW I'd advise asking the following questions and allowing them the them time to respond. The simple act of having to describe or explain ones beliefs to an outsider can sometimes make a person reflect how utterly ****ing mad they are.

 

 

1 - Have you researched the beginnings of your faith? Can you explain why your founder Charles Taze Russell was a big believer in pyramidology?

 

2 - How come you don't read any of your religions publications from it's beginnings? 

 

3 - Have you researched the Australian Royal Commission of 2015 to see how your religion was found to have policies which increased a childs chance of being abused within your organisation?

 

4 - Have you ever read or seen the secret elders manual called 'shepherd the flock of god?' Do you think it's ok for them to have a book and guidelines that nobody else has in your congregations?

 

5 - How can you justify shunning your family members and friends just because they no longer share your beliefs?

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3 hours ago, Craigieboy said:

 

Jehovah's Witnesses surprisingly rarely go challenged during their conversion work. Either people are just disinterested or they will come out with unreasonable and angry rants toward them.

 

If anyone is interested in 'reaching' or 'waking up' a JW I wouldn't advise angry or disrespectful opposition (I'm not saying that you're doing it). They are trained from infancy to view opposition as a tool of the devil and as persecution which just reaffirms their belief that the world is 'against them' or 'hates them' as Jesus taught his followers would be in the bible.

 

To reach a JW I'd advise asking the following questions and allowing them the them time to respond. The simple act of having to describe or explain ones beliefs to an outsider can sometimes make a person reflect how utterly ****ing mad they are.

 

 

1 - Have you researched the beginnings of your faith? Can you explain why your founder Charles Taze Russell was a big believer in pyramidology?

 

2 - How come you don't read any of your religions publications from it's beginnings? 

 

3 - Have you researched the Australian Royal Commission of 2015 to see how your religion was found to have policies which increased a childs chance of being abused within your organisation?

 

4 - Have you ever read or seen the secret elders manual called 'shepherd the flock of god?' Do you think it's ok for them to have a book and guidelines that nobody else has in your congregations?

 

5 - How can you justify shunning your family members and friends just because they no longer share your beliefs?

 

Informative post thank you.  Funnily enough I had gone to the Internet and done some research on the religion and its founding. I had basically, if I get a recall intended to take the approach you have suggested using my own material, but you have provided me with some I can use if and I use the word if in anticipation of an expected delay before any new contact if ever.

 

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Craigieboy
On 29/09/2021 at 14:01, Sharpie said:

 

Informative post thank you.  Funnily enough I had gone to the Internet and done some research on the religion and its founding. I had basically, if I get a recall intended to take the approach you have suggested using my own material, but you have provided me with some I can use if and I use the word if in anticipation of an expected delay before any new contact if ever.

 


👍🏽

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muldoon74
18 hours ago, Ulysses said:
18 hours ago, Ulysses said:

pic1224438.jpg

 

Best laugh I've had all day! 😂😂

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