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The Fear of Losing


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3 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Dont think they were, all 3 players were past their best in the match for one reason or another, though I may have taken on Gnanduillet before McKay. Bit of self gratification in bringing McKay on Gnanduillet would have given them a different problem I think

I think GMS was coming on to a game just as he was taken off. I was disappointed with that one. Gnando has been subbed in 3 times in our first 5 league games. Imo he got it right those three matches and got it wrong on Sunday. 
 

In saying all that if Gino had put that header across the goal for Boyce to knock in then nobody would give a shit about any of this. 

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10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's largely the point of a wing back. Clare and Mitchell would actually improve us currently imo deployed in those roles.

It is but Clare was too weak defensively. Not saying he couldn’t have learned but his mistakes could have been costly. 

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2 minutes ago, jambonian said:

Yes, but i meant as a right midfielder-come-winger type and leaving a right-back to do the defending. I remember when Levein was asked why young MacDonald wasn't getting many chances and his reply was "he needs to learn to defend" which i thought strange. He's an attacker. In his playing days his own ex-team-mate John Colquhoun never had to worry about defending, he left it to Walter Kidd. And they wonder why there are fewer flair players in the Scottish game these days? They don't get that luxury or freedom to create anymore.

 

👍 I get you

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The issue with Clare was that you stick him in an advanced position and he just drifts out of the game. When he plays deep he sees the game in front of him and comes to life. The obvious catch 22 is he’s shit at defending and you need to be able to defend if you play deep. 

Edited by GinRummy
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7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It is but Clare was too weak defensively. Not saying he couldn’t have learned but his mistakes could have been costly. 

 

I think we're putting too much emphasis on the wing backs abilities to defend, it just isn't that important. The much used example of Chelsea shows this as well imo, as someone else eluded to. They eon an EPL with Alonso and Moses as their full backs, yet both are poor defensively and you'd never play them as full backs (ideally, obviously Alonso has played there a lot, but he was largely poor at it). They've even played Hudson-Odoi and Pulisic in the wing back roles under Tuchel.

Edited by Taffin
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15 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think GMS was coming on to a game just as he was taken off. I was disappointed with that one. Gnando has been subbed in 3 times in our first 5 league games. Imo he got it right those three matches and got it wrong on Sunday. 
 

In saying all that if Gino had put that header across the goal for Boyce to knock in then nobody would give a shit about any of this. 

Indeed. Fine margins. 

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9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I think we're putting too much emphasis on the wing backs abilities to defend, it just isn't that important. The much used example of Chelsea shows this as well imo, as someone else eluded to. They eon an EPL with Alonso and Moses as their full backs, yet both are poor defensively and you'd never play them as full backs (ideally, obviously Alonso has played there a lot, but he was largely poor at it). They've even played Hudson-Odoi and Pulisic in the wing back roles under Tuchel.

I don’t disagree really and I’ve said on a few different threads how disappointing both Cochrane and Smith have been in the final third. 
 

You do need players in what is essentially a midfield position to be able to defend though and Clare was awful defensively. 
 

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Spitonastranger
1 hour ago, The Tackle said:

Both the anti Neilson Brigade and the Happy clappers are getting boring now. 

 

I'll admit i wanted Neilson gone after Brora but the start to this season has earned him time. This never ending argument is ruining this forum 

Exactly were im at 👍

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2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t disagree really and I’ve said on a few different threads how disappointing both Cochrane and Smith have been in the final third. 
 

You do need players in what is essentially a midfield position to be able to defend though and Clare was awful defensively. 
 

 

Yeh that's very true. I guess it's just my preference for them to offer something going forwards at the expense of defending rather than the other way around. I'd rather have someone who can do both though 👍

 

I'm not advocating we re-sign Clare btw, just think it's funny that were now playing a system where the two mentioned actually may bring us more than what we're getting.

 

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2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh that's very true. I guess it's just my preference for them to offer something going forwards at the expense of defending rather than the other way around. I'd rather have someone who can do both though 👍

 

I'm not advocating we re-sign Clare btw, just think it's funny that were now playing a system where the two mentioned actually may bring us more than what we're getting.

 

Smith is just totally unsuited to it. Cochrane maybe could be coached more into it. He’s certainly a talented guy. The funny thing is, I always thought a wing back role would have suited Jamie Brandon, good engine, decent cross, good on the ball. He fell short at RB but can defend a bit. Probably too late for him now. 

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2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think Jorginho is a defensive player, deep as he plays. 
Conte played a 532 as he did last season to win the league, his third different team to do so. Again though it wasn’t 8 defensive players, two midfielders broke forward. 
That’s why I said 5 as there’s bound to be a couple. Man City had the best defence in England last season, as did Rangers up here. You don’t need to play 8 defensive players to have a good defence. 


I agree with you with the main point. Swap Haring for a mobile ball player (hopefully Devlin) and one of the wingbacks for a forward thinking player and the whole dynamic changes. The team that played on Sunday would be a perfect 11 for say a tough away game. 
 

Im 100% positive Conte played a 3-4-3. Costa was the focal point with Hazard and any of Pedro, William, Oscar with him. I was lucky enough to have a season ticket that year through my father in-laws company. 

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Pasquale for King
8 minutes ago, DS98 said:


I agree with you with the main point. Swap Haring for a mobile ball player (hopefully Devlin) and one of the wingbacks for a forward thinking player and the whole dynamic changes. The team that played on Sunday would be a perfect 11 for say a tough away game. 
 

Im 100% positive Conte played a 3-4-3. Costa was the focal point with Hazard and any of Pedro, William, Oscar with him. I was lucky enough to have a season ticket that year through my father in-laws company. 

You’re more likely to know then, as someone else said it was Moses and Alonso as wing backs who were better going forward. 
Costa was usually really isolated but could hold it up to let the team get up the park, not sure Boyce can do that. 
Having read this I don’t think he would enjoy a no scoring draw. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39885837

 

Spurs and Man U had better defences that season too. 
 

9446DB7A-EFC5-4C69-8B32-6C5D25FA4385.jpeg

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Guest ToqueJambo
4 hours ago, Russ1977 said:

My biggest problems with the subs was the timing of them. Smith fair enough as he was struggling with injury. Woodburn and GMS were heavily involved and causing hibs problems when they were taken off. Very obvious at the time that these subs were pre planned and didn’t take in to account how the games was going. No idea why any manager would work like that, I get having plans in place but surely there must be flexibility as well. 

 

Wasn't Woodburn struggling and indicated to come off? Sure I read that. That would mean two enforced subs. Generally, subs have been good this season. I would have liked to have seen Gnando come on, but the enforced subs might have been a reason he didn't. Some of the crosses McKay put in would have been perfect for him - Gino's header one for sure.

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Guest ToqueJambo
3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

That's largely the point of a wing back. Clare and Mitchell would actually improve us currently imo deployed in those roles.

 

Clare and Mitchell, and Calum P, definitely had the types of attributes we should be looking at in new WBs long term if we stick with this formation.

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8 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Clare and Mitchell, and Calum P, definitely had the types of attributes we should be looking at in new WBs long term if we stick with this formation.

 

Calum Paterson...yes please!!

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I think GMS was coming on to a game just as he was taken off. I was disappointed with that one. Gnando has been subbed in 3 times in our first 5 league games. Imo he got it right those three matches and got it wrong on Sunday. 
 

In saying all that if Gino had put that header across the goal for Boyce to knock in then nobody would give a shit about any of this. 

Wonder what would have happened had Walsh had any bottle 

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Guest ToqueJambo
2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Wonder what would have happened had Walsh had any bottle 

 

That was a shocker. Boyce did touch him lightly but Walsh didn't blow for that and there was no reason to play advantage for Hibs. Then saw the Hibs player bring down Boyce and bottled it completely. Hibs got away with that one and I think we would have gone on to win comfortably if we'd taken the lead at that time.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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21 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Wonder what would have happened had Walsh had any bottle 

Would have probably grown up a more rounded and person and got a more honest job. 

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8 hours ago, jambonian said:

Yes, but i meant as a right midfielder-come-winger type and leaving a right-back to do the defending. I remember when Levein was asked why young MacDonald wasn't getting many chances and his reply was "he needs to learn to defend" which i thought strange. He's an attacker. In his playing days his own ex-team-mate John Colquhoun never had to worry about defending, he left it to Walter Kidd. And they wonder why there are fewer flair players in the Scottish game these days? They don't get that luxury or freedom to create anymore.

You don't think JC tracked back ?

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5 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He'd be perfect and I feel like it could happen.


What a beautiful bit of business that would be. Always thought he’d romp at RWB.

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Ex member of the SaS

Sorry not read the full thread but my grandson was at the game with his dad and I took him home as I can't attend games these days, and the first thing he said is, we went to a back four ten to fifteen minutes from the end. Don't know if this adds much to the conversation but there it is.

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Coming from someone who has been very critical of Robbie in the past, what you see is what you get with Robbie, he isn't going to be all out attack is he defensive minded yes, will he look to keep a clean sheet over scoring more goals yes, this is Robbie Neilson 👍

 

Will the football on the eye be good to watch you decide 👍

 

But so far he can't be criticised too much tbh, would i like him to be more attacking yes, but you won't get that with Robbie, so you will just have put up with it. 

 

Robbie has a sqaud that is more than good enough to finish above either Hibs or Aberdeen, failing that he should go but he won't. 

 

That should be his goal this season finishing above them. 

 

 

Edited by Bongo 1874
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20 hours ago, The Tackle said:

Both the anti Neilson Brigade and the Happy clappers are getting boring now. 

 

I'll admit i wanted Neilson gone after Brora but the start to this season has earned him time. This never ending argument is ruining this forum 

It’s one thread and it’s an important issue and has to be debated whether you think it’s boring or not. Calling fans the anti Neilson Brigade or the Happy Clappers is boring and not accurate there are many opinions on Neilson’s management from wanting him to stay, wanting to give him more time, wanting him to sign a more players, wanting him to be less defensive, wanting to be more entertaining or just wanting him replaced because he isn’t up to the job. Giving Kickbackers the chance to debate a manager, that is without doubt the most important job in the club, is crucial. A bad manager can destroy a club, ruin a club and drive players, fans, sponsors etc away in their droves while a manager who can bond and put together a team that is entertaining & winning can make everybody’s job 100 times easier and that should be every employee and Jambos aim.

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Pasquale for King
45 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Coming from someone who has been very critical of Robbie in the past, what you see is what you get with Robbie, he isn't going to be all out attack is he defensive minded yes, will he look to keep a clean sheet over scoring more goals yes, this is Robbie Neilson 👍

 

Will the football on the eye be good to watch you decide 👍

 

But so far he can't be criticised too much tbh, would i like him to be more attacking yes, but you won't get that with Robbie, so you will just have put up with it. 

 

Robbie has a sqaud that is more than good enough to finish above either Hibs or Aberdeen, failing that he should go but he won't. 

 

That should be his goal this season finishing above them. 

 

 

Good post 👍🏽

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

It’s one thread and it’s an important issue and has to be debated whether you think it’s boring or not. Calling fans the anti Neilson Brigade or the Happy Clappers is boring and not accurate there are many opinions on Neilson’s management from wanting him to stay, wanting to give him more time, wanting him to sign a more players, wanting him to be less defensive, wanting to be more entertaining or just wanting him replaced because he isn’t up to the job. Giving Kickbackers the chance to debate a manager, that is without doubt the most important job in the club, is crucial. A bad manager can destroy a club, ruin a club and drive players, fans, sponsors etc away in their droves while a manager who can bond and put together a team that is entertaining & winning can make everybody’s job 100 times easier and that should be every employee and Jambos aim.

Spot on 

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3 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

👍

If it's boring don't read the thread.   

The manager at a club will always get discussed on a fans forum so what topics is that post wanting us to talk about? 

 

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13 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

It’s one thread and it’s an important issue and has to be debated whether you think it’s boring or not. Calling fans the anti Neilson Brigade or the Happy Clappers is boring and not accurate there are many opinions on Neilson’s management from wanting him to stay, wanting to give him more time, wanting him to sign a more players, wanting him to be less defensive, wanting to be more entertaining or just wanting him replaced because he isn’t up to the job. Giving Kickbackers the chance to debate a manager, that is without doubt the most important job in the club, is crucial. A bad manager can destroy a club, ruin a club and drive players, fans, sponsors etc away in their droves while a manager who can bond and put together a team that is entertaining & winning can make everybody’s job 100 times easier and that should be every employee and Jambos aim.

Exactly. Just don’t read it if it’s not going to interest you. It’s as obvious as can be what the thread is about. There are threads on page 1 of the forum I haven’t opened because I’m not interested in the topic. I wouldn’t bother reading them and complaining. 

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1 minute ago, Auldbenches said:

If it's boring don't read the thread.   

The manager at a club will always get discussed on a fans forum so what topics is that post wanting us to talk about? 

 

The lack of Maroon trees on the plaza is a huge concern. 

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1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

The lack of Maroon trees on the plaza is a huge concern. 

As much to some as them thinking the team could be set up better? 

You must welcome a good honest debate on here rather than just everyone posting that we are getting everything right.

I see it like a discussion in a pub or a supporters bus and there no way others would get away with telling fans what opinions they should have.

As someone who helps run this board, you must welcome threads like this?

 

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1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Nothing wrong with the quote but the dramatic scenery amused me :)

😂 There was a choice, and that was the calmest😳

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1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Coming from someone who has been very critical of Robbie in the past, what you see is what you get with Robbie, he isn't going to be all out attack is he defensive minded yes, will he look to keep a clean sheet over scoring more goals yes, this is Robbie Neilson 👍

 

Will the football on the eye be good to watch you decide 👍

 

But so far he can't be criticised too much tbh, would i like him to be more attacking yes, but you won't get that with Robbie, so you will just have put up with it. 

 

Robbie has a sqaud that is more than good enough to finish above either Hibs or Aberdeen, failing that he should go but he won't. 

 

That should be his goal this season finishing above them. 

 

 

Squad*

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10 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

As much to some as them thinking the team could be set up better? 

You must welcome a good honest debate on here rather than just everyone posting that we are getting everything right.

I see it like a discussion in a pub or a supporters bus and there no way others would get away with telling fans what opinions they should have.

As someone who helps run this board, you must welcome threads like this?

 

It’s all about opinions. 

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Jeffros Furios
20 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The lack of Maroon trees on the plaza is a huge concern. 

A few big Acers would sort that .

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Pasquale for King
8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What's the intended purpose of the plaza out of interest?

Space to queue for the ticket office on match days, it normally sprawls right  across it. 

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9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Space to queue for the ticket office on match days, it normally sprawls right  across it. 

 

Doesn't seem a great use of space, you'd think we wouldn't have many people buying/collecting/sorting tickets on the day in this day and age but at least it's used for something 👍

 

I envisaged it as more of a focal point where they'd maybe be serving food and drinks and people could congregate/sit/meet etc before the game but it always looks very barren.

 

Not sniping at it or anything before anyone gets upset. I'm not there often and when I am it's usually in the Gorgie stand so haven't seen much of the plaza on matchday 👍

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Doesn't seem a great use of space, you'd think we wouldn't have many people buying/collecting/sorting tickets on the day in this day and age but at least it's used for something 👍

 

I envisaged it as more of a focal point where they'd maybe be serving food and drinks and people could congregate/sit/meet etc before the game but it always looks very barren.

 

Not sniping at it or anything before anyone gets upset. I'm not there often and when I am it's usually in the Gorgie stand so haven't seen much of the plaza on matchday 👍

I was being sarcastic but yes in this day and age you would think they would be more up to date. 
I sit in the main stand and there’s not really much happens on the Plaza. 

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Berra than you
1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Coming from someone who has been very critical of Robbie in the past, what you see is what you get with Robbie, he isn't going to be all out attack is he defensive minded yes, will he look to keep a clean sheet over scoring more goals yes, this is Robbie Neilson 👍

 

Will the football on the eye be good to watch you decide 👍

 

But so far he can't be criticised too much tbh, would i like him to be more attacking yes, but you won't get that with Robbie, so you will just have put up with it. 

 

Robbie has a sqaud that is more than good enough to finish above either Hibs or Aberdeen, failing that he should go but he won't. 

 

That should be his goal this season finishing above them. 

 

 

Good post. I think my only point would be that I don't particularly like managers being labelled as attacking or defensive. Obviously there are some that fall slap bang there, but for most they are anywhere in the middle. I accept Robbie probably focuses a bit more on defence (he was a defender so makes sense for him to see the game that way), but I would say over his time with us his team does tend to score plenty goals.

We have made a good start to the season and perhaps could have been more brave in attack at times. Hopefully we build towards that. I remember when Robbie first got us promoted and we were flying at the start, until Aberdeen ran riot against us and Robbie went more defensive. I wonder if the more cautious start to this season is him learning from that, and if we might build better attacking okay as the season goes on.

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54 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It’s all about opinions. 

Off course it is, but some options seem to be shouted down as just having a go when it's just fans discussing the club. 

What's you opinion on welcoming a good honest debate on here and others telling posters what theh should he posting?

In your opinion, isn't it better for the this board and what's better for this board?

Come on Dave..? 

A guy openly admitted to trolling because someone else disagreed about the manager.  That can't be right. 

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

The lack of Maroon trees on the plaza is a huge concern. 

 

 

Not as much as our green and white pitch. 

 

Shambles. 

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Lest we forget, for those Robbie knockers please take a look at the highlights from the 2006 cup final.   It was Robbie's prodigious long throw that led to Skacel's goal but more importantly it was his last gasp sliding tackle on the Gretna player through on goal with Gordon well beaten that saved a definite goal and stopped Gretna winning the cup.

 

There are people on this board who should not be here.  There, I said it, I will now hud ma wheesht. 

 

 

Edited by Tasavallan
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Guest ToqueJambo
3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Coming from someone who has been very critical of Robbie in the past, what you see is what you get with Robbie, he isn't going to be all out attack is he defensive minded yes, will he look to keep a clean sheet over scoring more goals yes, this is Robbie Neilson 👍

 

Will the football on the eye be good to watch you decide 👍

 

But so far he can't be criticised too much tbh, would i like him to be more attacking yes, but you won't get that with Robbie, so you will just have put up with it. 

 

Robbie has a sqaud that is more than good enough to finish above either Hibs or Aberdeen, failing that he should go but he won't. 

 

That should be his goal this season finishing above them. 

 

 

 

Can you describe "all out attack" please, because I very much doubt the opposite of that is "defensive". But it seems to be those two extremes for you. The fact is anyone who has watched us this season cannot say we're playing defensively. Remember the teams we played last season? THAT was defensive football.

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1 hour ago, Auldbenches said:

Off course it is, but some options seem to be shouted down as just having a go when it's just fans discussing the club. 

What's you opinion on welcoming a good honest debate on here and others telling posters what theh should he posting?

In your opinion, isn't it better for the this board and what's better for this board?

Come on Dave..? 

A guy openly admitted to trolling because someone else disagreed about the manager.  That can't be right. 

If you think something breaches the rules then there’s a report function that can be used. Not sure what shouted down exactly means but members are allowed to strongly disagree with each other…and often do. 

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