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Vaccination certificates needed at Tynecastle?


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Just now, Boy Daniel said:

It’s not me that’s finding it difficult. Is there an app? I’m not sure. 
I am abroad at the moment ant I had to get proof of being double Jabbed which came in the form of a letter. 

No worries crossed wires , got that from your last reply. Theres an app coming out. Simplifies everything. People will still try the im exempt etc thats what people do.

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25 minutes ago, 151 said:

If i can transmit it with a vaccine or without a vaccine then it makes no difference to others.

But it does make a difference.    The medical science/research is now at an advanced stage where they can put a percentage probability range on the transmisability (X say) of the virus from a vaccinated person versus that from a non-vaccinated person (Y say) -  other factors being the same like distance, ventillation  & exposure time.    Your suggesting that X=Y     How do you know this ?

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The Joint Response Group notes the First Minister’s comments today regarding the potential implementation of a COVID-19 vaccine certification process as a prerequisite for entry into outdoor events with more than 10,000 people in attendance, including football matches.

Scottish football is committed to the ongoing collective effort to eradicate the virus and continues to adhere to the strictest protocols even after restrictions were lifted across society.

Indeed, on Monday the National Clinical Director, Professor Jason Leitch, gave a presentation to players and clubs on the clinical facts behind vaccination, to expedite the roll-out within the game.

None the less, we have today raised concerns on the considerable unintended consequences of implementing a certification process without sufficient time or appropriate IT infrastructure in place. 

We will endeavour to establish full details in the coming days but stress the need to ensure a practical and workable solution for member clubs, their staff and supporters; in particular season ticket holders who bought their tickets in good faith and on the understanding they would be allowed back into the stadium when restrictions were lifted.

We ask ministers to carefully consider the unintended consequences of certification, especially in such a short timeframe, and request a meeting with Scottish Government to discuss the matter and its implications for clubs prior to a parliamentary vote.

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3 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Yes, will your certificate name need to match your season ticket name and if it doesn’t do you need to take other forms of ID?

 

May be the end of borrowing someone’s season ticket. 
 

Away games, show your certificate at the turnstile? 

 

 

The stewards are that good

 

1 minute ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Zero sense in letting an unvaccinated player take part in an event whilst an unvaccinated fan can’t attend. 
 

Andy Halliday isn’t jabbed yet or hasn’t had his 2nd. So can he play against hibs?
 

As per the rules any event with 10k needs vaccine passport and he won’t be able to provide one? He can run about sweating and spreading the virus across the park and into the stands but a fan can’t sit and watch? That is no right in my opinion but I don’t make the rules am just asking the questions when things don’t add up. 

Players don’t mix in with the crowds at matches though. 

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7 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

Imagine the devastation that will be caused by having to bring one more document to the football with us?  How will we cope?  We’ll need to get new strips/scarves designed with a special pocket sewn in to hold it.

You should try flying at the moment. The amount of paper work you need is amazing. Passport, tickets, QR codes, proof of double vaccinations. 

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My concern for younger people is that we are still finding out about short term side effects... IE.. affecting females under 30s menstril (which is raising new concerns about fertility) and skin conditions due to a side effect with the vaccine. The current vaccines are still under a trail period, and 'forcing' people to take something with little knowledge of long term side effects is dangerous. 

 

I am under 30 and I'm vaccinated, however I do worry about long term effects from the vaccine. 

 

I think vaccine passports are not great and freedom of choice is important in life. 

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Just now, Boy Daniel said:

You should try flying at the moment. The amount of paper work you need is amazing. Passport, tickets, QR codes, proof of double vaccinations. 

All of these things apart from a passport can be displayed on a smartphone screen.  I’m not losing sleep over it.  

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2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The stewards are that good

 

Players don’t mix in with the crowds at matches though. 

Paul McGowan?

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SuperstarSteve
Just now, davemclaren said:

The stewards are that good

 

Players don’t mix in with the crowds at matches though. 

They mix with players and will have closer contact to those players than fans would other fans though. 


I don’t believe any player without the double jab should be kicking a ball and being in close contact with people in that event if a fan can’t sit in the stands. Just my opinion. 


 

 

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Just now, escobri said:

Can't wait till its 3 jags for covid pass and the double jagged are complaining,  buckle up boys this shows just beginning 

If it keeps me and my family/friends safe, I’ll take 10 jabs of the stuff.  

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1 minute ago, ScottieMac17 said:

My concern for younger people is that we are still finding out about short term side effects... IE.. affecting females under 30s menstril (which is raising new concerns about fertility) and skin conditions due to a side effect with the vaccine. The current vaccines are still under a trail period, and 'forcing' people to take something with little knowledge of long term side effects is dangerous. 

 

I am under 30 and I'm vaccinated, however I do worry about long term effects from the vaccine. 

 

I think vaccine passports are not great and freedom of choice is important in life. 

No-one is being forced to take it  

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2 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

They mix with players and will have closer contact to those players than fans would other fans though. 


I don’t believe any player without the double jab should be kicking a ball and being in close contact with people in that event if a fan can’t sit in the stands. Just my opinion. 


 

 

They already mix with players as part of their job and are tested before every match. 

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9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


absolute pish. I mean how hard is it to understand that you will transmit less virus if vaccinated thus the risk of passing the virus is reduced. The world isn’t binary, it’s not a black and white question or answer. 
 

You can hold this view for as long as you want, you can write it as many times as you want.. it’s just simply wrong. 

 

What are you talking about? It was others who said that vaccinated folk can catch Covid - i was quoting them!

 

My point was if EVERYONE else is saying you can catch, transmit, and move Covid whether you are vaccinated or not, then my opinion is if YOU are vaccinated you have nothing to worry about.

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1 hour ago, Italian Lambretta said:

They have already introduced a similar system in Germany but went one step further that you need to show proof of vaccination to go to a bar, restaurant or stay in a hotel. If you don't have that you need to show a PCR test no longer than 24 hours before.

 

Denmark do it as well. Got to have your digital covid passport to get into places, if you don't have access then a free lateral flow test at an official testing point (they are set up everywhere) will get your results sent to your phone and last for 48hrs.

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Guest ToqueJambo
5 minutes ago, escobri said:

Can't wait till its 3 jags for covid pass and the double jagged are complaining,  buckle up boys this shows just beginning 

 

Showing a ST pass, showing a passport, showing proof of age in bars, showing driving licence, showing proof of education, showing social insurance number, wearing one of those wrist bands at the swimming pool, showing a ticket to get into a concert, getting stamped at a pub so you can get back in... showing a vaccine pass, what's the difference? Amazing how people are making this out to be some sort of hardship. Well not amazing. The fuss some people have made from the start of covid about being asked to do some very simple, easy preventative measures has been depressing.

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2 hours ago, Berra than you said:

I, like yourself thought the same. However upon logging on to check my vaccine certificate, it turns out I never attended my second appointment, according to the NHS. Don't know how to get that corrected.

Not had time to read the whole thread but had the same as you - NHS web site saying I had had only one jab - phone call to NHS Inform selecting option three and an hours wait to be answered got me through to a very nice young chap who stated at this time it’s a big problem with the website not being properly updated - now sending me a paper copy of my vaccination status- without me even asking. Easily resolved after 2 hours worry. 

Edited by mark2000
Bad spelling
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SuperstarSteve
Just now, davemclaren said:

They already mix with players as part of their job and are tested before every match. 

Is there an option to take a test for the unvaccinated fan to attend? If so I don’t see the fuss at all. If not, the players getting the option to test negative to play but the fan not getting that option seems unfair.

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Just now, Fraggle said:

Denmark do it as well. Got to have your digital covid passport to get into places, if you don't have access then a free lateral flow test at an official testing point (they are set up everywhere) will get your results sent to your phone and last for 48hrs.

I think this sort of thing is quite common in Western European countries. Football clubs there seem to have adapted. 

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9 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Zero sense in letting an unvaccinated player take part in an event whilst an unvaccinated fan can’t attend. 
 

Andy Halliday isn’t jabbed yet or hasn’t had his 2nd. So can he play against hibs?
 

As per the rules any event with 10k needs vaccine passport and he won’t be able to provide one? He can run about sweating and spreading the virus across the park and into the stands but a fan can’t sit and watch? That is no right in my opinion but I don’t make the rules am just asking the questions when things don’t add up. 

 

Andy Halliday is unlikely to be sitting next to someone for the best part of 2 hours. 

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1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Showing a ST pass, showing a passport, showing proof of age in bars, showing driving licence, showing proof of education, showing social insurance number, wearing one of those wrist bands at the swimming pool, showing a ticket to get into a concert, getting stamped at a pub so you can get back in... showing a vaccine pass, what's the difference? Amazing how people are making this out to be some sort of hardship.

I refuse to wear the rubber wristband at the pool, as a free swimmer. 

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 minute ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Is there an option to take a test for the unvaccinated fan to attend? If so I don’t see the fuss at all. If not, the players getting the option to test negative to play but the fan not getting that option seems unfair.

 

It's much more hassle to keep doing multiple tests, and then of course having to prove it, than get the vaccine. But each to their own.

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9 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Zero sense in letting an unvaccinated player take part in an event whilst an unvaccinated fan can’t attend. 
 

Andy Halliday isn’t jabbed yet or hasn’t had his 2nd. So can he play against hibs?
 

As per the rules any event with 10k needs vaccine passport and he won’t be able to provide one? He can run about sweating and spreading the virus across the park and into the stands but a fan can’t sit and watch? That is no right in my opinion but I don’t make the rules am just asking the questions when things don’t add up. 

It's not adding up for you as you are missing key components of the equation.

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kingantti1874
5 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

What are you talking about? It was others who said that vaccinated folk can catch Covid - i was quoting them!

 

My point was if EVERYONE else is saying you can catch, transmit, and move Covid whether you are vaccinated or not, then my opinion is if YOU are vaccinated you have nothing to worry about.


i don’t care about your opinion to be honest becuase what you’ve written here is not a matter of opinion - you are wrong and that is a statement of absolute fact. 
 

The fact you can’t seem to understand the simple concepts behind why I can make this statement, that you’ve responded with more drivel tells me everything I  need to know. 

Edited by kingantti1874
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5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

No-one is being forced to take it  

It is however putting pressure on people who don't take. Of you don't take it you can't do much in terms of fun and entertainment...

 

Remember when peer pressure on drugs was considered bad hahaaha (joking)

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2 hours ago, Jamboross said:

 

It does though. Latest data suggests 50-60% protection against infection. It's not a guaranteed barrier against it but it helps.


yep. Someone in our household had covid and 2 of us double jagged did not catch it so something has worked.

no problem with this tbh and it was always a possibility so folk have had time to consider and the possible consequences.

appreciate that everybody has a view point though

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Guest ToqueJambo
5 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

What are you talking about? It was others who said that vaccinated folk can catch Covid - i was quoting them!

 

My point was if EVERYONE else is saying you can catch, transmit, and move Covid whether you are vaccinated or not, then my opinion is if YOU are vaccinated you have nothing to worry about.

 

Nothing to worry about? Apart from if you need an urgent op and all the beds are taken up by unvaccinated people who thought covid didn't affect them. And apart from this pandemic never ending, and potentially mutating into something worse, until we have enough people who are vaccinated.

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SuperstarSteve
2 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Andy Halliday is unlikely to be sitting next to someone for the best part of 2 hours. 

That’s no the rule. The rule is can’t attend event 10k without vaccinated proof. 
 

Andy Halliday will be hanging over players and sliding in spit which is worse than a fan watching a game beside someone. Again just my opinion. 
 

if fans can show a negative test like the players I don’t see the problem. I haven’t seen that is the case though. I may have missed it. 

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Berra than you
5 minutes ago, mark2000 said:

Not had time to read the whole thread but had the same as you - NHS web site saying I had had only one jab - phone call to NHS Inform selecting option three and an hours wait to be answered got me through to a very nice young chap who stated at this time it’s a big problem with the website not being properly updated - now sending me a paper copy of my vaccination status- without me even asking. Easily resolved after 2 hours worry. 

Just off the phone myself 😂. Same here, sending me a copy. I have also checked again and the website has updated so worth doing so yourself.

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5 minutes ago, escobri said:

Can't wait till its 3 jags for covid pass and the double jagged are complaining,  buckle up boys this shows just beginning 

I don't think playing the fear card is going to stop people taking something that they think might keep them alive. 

Some folk are claiming they have the right not to get jabbed.   Do businesses and organisations not have the right to decide if they let unvaccinated into their premises etc?  

If someone bought a season ticket last week and wouldn't have if these rules were already in place then they should have the right to a refund.  

I think everyone should get the jag but we can't change the rules and tell some fans that it's just unlucky that they've already forked out.  

Might not agree with anti vaxxers but they should be taking into account if they have already handed their money over.   

Fools but they do deserve a refund.  

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Guest ToqueJambo
49 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

 

It is my body, and my body is fit and healthy. If i can transmit it with a vaccine or without a vaccine then it makes no difference to others.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fit-and-healthy-man-42-from-southport-who-rejected-vaccine-dies-of-covid

 

"Fitness enthusiast, 42, who rejected vaccine, dies of Covid"

 

"The father of one, John Eyers, a construction expert from Southport in Merseyside, was described by his sister Jenny McCann as “the fittest, healthiest person I know”. She added that her brother had been climbing Welsh mountains and camping in the wild four weeks before his death.

But he was left in intensive care after catching coronavirus, and told his consultant before he was ventilated that he wished he had been vaccinated."

 

You can take your chances I suppose. Do you also not wear a seatbelt because the chances of dying in a crash are low and in any case you can still die in a car crash while wearing a seatbelt?

Edited by ToqueJambo
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Guest ToqueJambo

By the way mods. It might seem irrelevant to football but please keep this thread open. It's important people hear these vaccine arguments (both sides) from different places rather than always government sources etc.

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6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Nothing to worry about? Apart from if you need an urgent op and all the beds are taken up by unvaccinated people who thought covid didn't affect them. And apart from this pandemic never ending, and potentially mutating into something worse, until we have enough people who are vaccinated.

Having just read the thread, can I say thank you for your posts as they have all saved me from saying exactly the same thing. 
 

I just don’t understand why, after more than 12months of restrictions people aren’t prepared to do whatever it takes to get back to normal!

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Public Health England’s head of immunisation, Mary Ramsay, said, “Vaccines are vital in helping us return to a normal way of life. Not only do vaccines reduce the severity of illness and prevent hundreds of deaths every day, we now see they also have an additional impact on reducing the chance of passing covid-19 on to others.

 

Public Health England in the BMJ, Internationally recognised peer review journal 

 

CDC America early this year A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others.

Edited by JamboAl1965
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1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

By the way mods. It might seem irrelevant to football but please keep this thread open. It's important people hear these vaccine arguments (both sides) from different places rather than always government sources etc.

Keeping it in this forum linking it to attending games should help keep the conspiracy stuff out of it.  Some will cross the line but it should be a better discussion here keeping party politics out if it.  

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4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fit-and-healthy-man-42-from-southport-who-rejected-vaccine-dies-of-covid

 

"Fitness enthusiast, 42, who rejected vaccine, dies of Covid"

 

"The father of one, John Eyers, a construction expert from Southport in Merseyside, was described by his sister Jenny McCann as “the fittest, healthiest person I know”. She added that her brother had been climbing Welsh mountains and camping in the wild four weeks before his death.

But he was left in intensive care after catching coronavirus, and told his consultant before he was ventilated that he wished he had been vaccinated."

 

You can take your chances I suppose. Do you also not wear a seatbelt because the chances of dying in a crash are low and in any case you can still die in a car crash while wearing a seatbelt?

 

One case? 

 

No I wear a seatbelt. 

 

Everyone wears a seatbelt, it is the law. It doesn't enter my body against my will so that I can do something I can enjoy. 

 

People are starting to deliberately misquote me, even though I am actually quoting others who have said the claims that even if you are vaccinated you can catch Covid so i'll just drop out of the conversation now.

 

People have stated that they can catch covid whether they are vaccinated or not. Therefore it has absolutely ZERO impact on them whether I am vaccinated or not. None. If they cannot understand this then it is pointless debating. 

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18 minutes ago, ScottieMac17 said:

My concern for younger people is that we are still finding out about short term side effects... IE.. affecting females under 30s menstril (which is raising new concerns about fertility) and skin conditions due to a side effect with the vaccine. The current vaccines are still under a trail period, and 'forcing' people to take something with little knowledge of long term side effects is dangerous. 

 

I am under 30 and I'm vaccinated, however I do worry about long term effects from the vaccine. 

 

I think vaccine passports are not great and freedom of choice is important in life. 

Your freedom of choice is still there if you want to go to a club, gig, football game etc. You just need to get jagged.

If you choose not to get jagged you can’t go 

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There has to be some kind of benefit to being jabbed. Access to event, going on holiday etc. Those putting themselves and the NHS at risk it might be their own choice but you don't get the benefits 

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Guest ToqueJambo
2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Keeping it in this forum linking it to attending games should help keep the conspiracy stuff out of it.  Some will cross the line but it should be a better discussion here keeping party politics out if it.  

 

There's very clear and growing proof from other countries that vaccine-hesitant people (who I do understand) - ie not the hardcore ant-vexers or the terminally selfish - will get the vaccine if it means they can do things they enjoy again. Quebec for example saw a huge uptake in vaccine appointments over night when they brought in a passport to get into restaurants etc. There's a small % who will stick to their guns but most people will hopefully do what it takes to get back to normal.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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SuperstarSteve
8 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's much more hassle to keep doing multiple tests, and then of course having to prove it, than get the vaccine. But each to their own.

Your right but atleast they would have the option of attending with proof they are negative and not a risk to others. A vaccine doesn’t proof you are negative. So it would make more sense to allow both. Vaccine offers protection to an extent and a negative test means you can attend but being unvaccinated you would be attending at your own risk. As long as your not a risk to others then that seems fair. 

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1 minute ago, Jamhammer said:

Your freedom of choice is still there if you want to go to a club, gig, football game etc. You just need to get jagged.

If you choose not to get jagged you can’t go 

My point is that people under 30 are at a lower risk of being affected by the virus, however if the don't get a vaccine with little or no knowledge of long term side effects, they cannot take part in anything... Seems a bit unfair.

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16 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Andy Halliday is unlikely to be sitting next to someone for the best part of 2 hours. 

Have you seen him play? 

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 minute ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Your right but atleast they would have the option of attending with proof they are negative and not a risk to others. A vaccine doesn’t proof you are negative. So it would make more sense to allow both. Vaccine offers protection to an extent and a negative test means you can attend but being unvaccinated you would be attending at your own risk. As long as your not a risk to others then that seems fair. 

 

It's still a selfish move as the pandemic will not end until enough are vaccinated but if that's the way some people want to go...

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1 minute ago, ScottieMac17 said:

My point is that people under 30 are at a lower risk of being affected by the virus, however if the don't get a vaccine with little or no knowledge of long term side effects, they cannot take part in anything... Seems a bit unfair.

 

Not at all, they are likely to be those spreading the virus to others who are at risk.

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Guest ToqueJambo
3 minutes ago, ScottieMac17 said:

My point is that people under 30 are at a lower risk of being affected by the virus, however if the don't get a vaccine with little or no knowledge of long term side effects, they cannot take part in anything... Seems a bit unfair.

 

The virus is constantly mutating. Under 30s could be at huge risk any day. All it will take is the right mutation, and until enough are vaccinated the virus is free to do that. My guess if that happens, they'll be rushing to get the vaccine. The selfishness of some is incredible.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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6 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

One case? 

 

No I wear a seatbelt. 

 

Everyone wears a seatbelt, it is the law. It doesn't enter my body against my will so that I can do something I can enjoy. 

 

People are starting to deliberately misquote me, even though I am actually quoting others who have said the claims that even if you are vaccinated you can catch Covid so i'll just drop out of the conversation now.

 

People have stated that they can catch covid whether they are vaccinated or not. Therefore it has absolutely ZERO impact on them whether I am vaccinated or not. None. If they cannot understand this then it is pointless debating. 


Jesus Christ 🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈

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Footballfirst

SFA/JRG Statement

 

Wednesday 1 September 2021

Response to First Minister’s vaccine certification announcement

The Joint Response Group notes the First Minister’s comments today regarding the potential implementation of a COVID-19 vaccine certification process as a prerequisite for entry into outdoor events with more than 10,000 people in attendance, including football matches.

Scottish football is committed to the ongoing collective effort to eradicate the virus and continues to adhere to the strictest protocols even after restrictions were lifted across society.

Indeed, on Monday the National Clinical Director, Professor Jason Leitch, gave a presentation to players and clubs on the clinical facts behind vaccination, to expedite the roll-out within the game.

None the less, we have today raised concerns on the considerable unintended consequences of implementing a certification process without sufficient time or appropriate IT infrastructure in place. 

We will endeavour to establish full details in the coming days but stress the need to ensure a practical and workable solution for member clubs, their staff and supporters; in particular season ticket holders who bought their tickets in good faith and on the understanding they would be allowed back into the stadium when restrictions were lifted.

We ask ministers to carefully consider the unintended consequences of certification, especially in such a short timeframe, and request a meeting with Scottish Government to discuss the matter and its implications for clubs prior to a parliamentary vote.

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