Denmark v Scotland WC Qual 1972

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

Well. Crap selection, especially in defence, and a shite performance. On the other hand, that was the hardest game in our section. Denmark will almost certainly finish top, and our away fixture with them isn’t likely to make a huge difference to our chances of coming second. Plus there was every chance it could have ended up 5-0.

yeah but yet again we're losing to a team from a country with virtually the same population as us, and saying "Cannot expect to win these games". It's simply not right that players like Hanley and McKenna are considered good enough to play for Scotland...Are we really so poor that on losing dross like O'Donnell we haven't got another RB and have to destroy our left flank to move one of our excellent LB/LWBs over? It's absurd. 

 

How many Belgian internationals are bad enough to play in Belgium, yet we select Hendry for our squad?

[Kiwidoug]

Let's hope Clarke continues to see little merit on Souttar.  He's reminding me of Gerrard.  Very impressive at club level but out of his depth at international level.

[Arthur Morgan]

Didn't watch, by why the feck is Souttar not in the squad, nevermind the first XI?! 

[colinmaroon]

Yet again Scotland set up ultra defensive but positionally inept.

 

Too few good players and, oh dear, Craig's  kicking was really poor.

 

Tierney looks like he's playing for Arsenal  if you get my drift and yet again that Celtic captain guy, can never remember his name, was posted missing.

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

Let's hope Clarke continues to see little merit on Souttar.  He's reminding me of Gerrard.  Very impressive at club level but out of his depth at international level.

 

When has Gerrard managed at International level? 

[VALDOS']

1 minute ago, Arthur Morgan said:

Didn't watch, by why the feck is Souttar not in the squad, nevermind the first XI?! 

Because like it or not he isn't at the level week in week out of the other defenders. McKenna is a bombscare, but he only played tonight because of injuries.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, colinmaroon said:

Yet again Scotland set up ultra defensive but positionally inept.

 

Too few good players and, oh dear, Craig's  kicking was really poor.

 

Tierney looks like he's playing for Arsenal  if you get my drift and yet again that Celtic captain guy, can never remember his name, was posted missing.

 

 

When Tierney plays for Arsenal he generally looks like their best player.  That first half from him (and others) tonight was embarrassing.  

[Doc Rob]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

yeah but yet again we're losing to a team from a country with virtually the same population as us, and saying "Cannot expect to win these games". It's simply not right that players like Hanley and McKenna are considered good enough to play for Scotland...Are we really so poor that on losing dross like O'Donnell we haven't got another RB and have to destroy our left flank to move one of our excellent LB/LWBs over? It's absurd. 

 

How many Belgian internationals are bad enough to play in Belgium, yet we select Hendry for our squad?

Hey, I’m frustrated too. But Denmark have better players than we do, population or no population. They are an excellent side - they’ve won all their games so far and scored 16 goals in the process.

 

I agree that our central defensive options are distressingly poor. But who else is there? McTominay did a job at CB but is injured. Considine put a shift in last year but is injured too. Souttar will certainly get another shot, but it was probably too early for him. We play the likes of Hendry because we have to. I draw the line at Hanley though - he has never been any better than shocking in a blue shirt.

 

To be fair, at RB we were missing Patterson as well as O’Donnell.

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

17 minutes ago, thegreatsd said:

I’ve very recently started liking him too. Wasn’t a fan a couple of days ago. Seems alright now. Not sure why!!

 

 

He has an orthodox way of playing which I like. You don't know what he's going to do.

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, Doc Rob said:

Hey, I’m frustrated too. But Denmark have better players than we do, population or no population. They are an excellent side - they’ve won all their games so far and scored 16 goals in the process.

 

I agree that our central defensive options are distressingly poor. But who else is there? McTominay did a job at CB but is injured. Considine put a shift in last year but is injured too. Souttar will certainly get another shot, but it was probably too early for him. We play the likes of Hendry because we have to. I draw the line at Hanley though - he has never been any better than shocking in a blue shirt.

 

To be fair, at RB we were missing Patterson as well as O’Donnell.

 

 

McTominay is an even worse CB than the guys tonight. Gallagher has been one of the most impressive CBs for me although it’s definitely a problem area. 

[Roxy Hearts]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Nae luck

 

Broke the all time international goal scoring record

Absolutely delighted for Ronaldo. 

[Doc Rob]

4 minutes ago, VALDOS' said:

Because like it or not he isn't at the level week in week out of the other defenders. McKenna is a bombscare, but he only played tonight because of injuries.

Going to have to take issue with that. Hanley may, inexplicably, be playing EPL football, but he is horrendous at international level and always has been. McKenna never did anything at Aberdeen to suggest he was better than Souttar.

[VALDOS']

Other than O'Donnell and Marshall, the team that started against England is Scotland's future.

Patterson in the long run will be right back and Gordon in goals at least until this campaign is over.

 

That team playing on a consistent basis would see results.

[Doc Rob]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

McTominay is an even worse CB than the guys tonight. Gallagher has been one of the most impressive CBs for me although it’s definitely a problem area. 

Sorry, first sentence just isn’t true. He isn’t a CB, but he played better in that position than the chancers we had there before.

 

Agree Gallagher has been the best we have fielded recently.

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

Hey, I’m frustrated too. But Denmark have better players than we do, population or no population. They are an excellent side - they’ve won all their games so far and scored 16 goals in the process.

 

I agree that our central defensive options are distressingly poor. But who else is there? McTominay did a job at CB but is injured. Considine put a shift in last year but is injured too. Souttar will certainly get another shot, but it was probably too early for him. We play the likes of Hendry because we have to. I draw the line at Hanley though - he has never been any better than shocking in a blue shirt.

 

To be fair, at RB we were missing Patterson as well as O’Donnell.

 

 

Yeah but he did have Fraser, and as the second half showed, THAT was the right thing to do...basically Clarke killed us at both the back and up front with the ludicrous decision to ask Robertson to try playing on the right. At international level you just don't do that...To me this was a more suicidal selection than Craig Levein's 4-6-0...At least Levein's selection almost got the draw. Tonight we were done within 15 mins...

Edited September 1, 2021 by Spellczech

[VALDOS']

1 minute ago, Doc Rob said:

Going to have to take issue with that. Hanley may, inexplicably, be playing EPL football, but he is horrendous at international level and always has been. McKenna never did anything at Aberdeen to suggest he was better than Souttar.

Like I said, McKenna is a bombscare and he is there by chance tonight. Hanley does have enough about him and Norwich fans will vouch for that.

 International football is still a massive step up for any player, truth is Souttar wasn't exactly outstanding in the few outings he has had, that coupled with injuries and a season in the championship, it's understandable why Clarke hasn't looked in his direction.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, Doc Rob said:

Sorry, first sentence just isn’t true. He isn’t a CB, but he played better in that position than the chancers we had there before.

 

Agree Gallagher has been the best we have fielded recently.

Disagree about McTominay, very good midfielder but absolute bombscare at CB.  Cost Scotland a few goals, most notably a crucial goal against Croatia through his lack of awareness of the positional side of being a CB. 

[Doc Rob]

Just now, VALDOS' said:

Other than O'Donnell and Marshall, the team that started against England is Scotland's future.

Patterson in the long run will be right back and Gordon in goals at least until this campaign is over.

 

That team playing on a consistent basis would see results.

What I find frustrating at the moment is that people are saying ‘Scotland need to field the young players and stick with them through the initial poor results’ whilst simultaneously putting the boot into Gilmour for being poor tonight. He’s 20 and this was his second start.

 

I agree with you. We have been rank for a long time and have relied on experienced journeymen and defensive tactics. We should play more youngsters and let them grow together, but we need to accept it won’t happen overnight. This is what did for Berti Vogts - he inherited a geriatric team from Craig Brown, had to build a new one from scratch and was sacked because results were poor. And at the time I was as guilty of calling for his head as anyone else.

[VALDOS']

1 minute ago, Doc Rob said:

What I find frustrating at the moment is that people are saying ‘Scotland need to field the young players and stick with them through the initial poor results’ whilst simultaneously putting the boot into Gilmour for being poor tonight. He’s 20 and this was his second start.

 

I agree with you. We have been rank for a long time and have relied on experienced journeymen and defensive tactics. We should play more youngsters and let them grow together, but we need to accept it won’t happen overnight. This is what did for Berti Vogts - he inherited a geriatric team from Craig Brown, had to build a new one from scratch and was sacked because results were poor. And at the time I was as guilty of calling for his head as anyone else.

Yes, Gilmour tonight was just a consequence of being a young player, it means inconsistency is going to be there and he doesn't have the experience to call upon.

However knowing what he is capable of, means he still must be the first name on the team sheet. 

 

Tonight was a reverse of the England game, that night every player was a 8, 9 or 10....tonight it was 4, 5 and 6 at best.

 

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

What I find frustrating at the moment is that people are saying ‘Scotland need to field the young players and stick with them through the initial poor results’ whilst simultaneously putting the boot into Gilmour for being poor tonight. He’s 20 and this was his second start.

 

I agree with you. We have been rank for a long time and have relied on experienced journeymen and defensive tactics. We should play more youngsters and let them grow together, but we need to accept it won’t happen overnight. This is what did for Berti Vogts - he inherited a geriatric team from Craig Brown, had to build a new one from scratch and was sacked because results were poor. And at the time I was as guilty of calling for his head as anyone else.

The difference with Vogts was that we were used to qualifying with that geriatric team. I think few of us were fooled that we scraped into the Euros via the back door and only because it was an expanded competition where they wanted some whipping boys! Clarke has no pressure, no expectation. He could play young players and nobody would question it. Nobody will be calling for Gilmour to be dropped after tonight.

[Arthur Morgan]

25 minutes ago, VALDOS' said:

Because like it or not he isn't at the level week in week out of the other defenders. McKenna is a bombscare, but he only played tonight because of injuries.

He's no worse than McKenna, in fact, he's better imo.

[Doc Rob]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

The difference with Vogts was that we were used to qualifying with that geriatric team. I think few of us were fooled that we scraped into the Euros via the back door and only because it was an expanded competition where they wanted some whipping boys! Clarke has no pressure, no expectation. He could play young players and nobody would question it. Nobody will be calling for Gilmour to be dropped after tonight.

You’re absolutely right. We were used to qualifying - 1994 was the only tournament we missed in the 90s - and we weren’t prepared to put up with a development side for the amount of time that was needed. But we would be now.

 

We may have got into the Euros by the back door, but getting there was still an achievement. Scotland had to beat a good team in their own back yard to qualify, and they needed a last-minute equaliser to stop us from doing it in normal time. And what is vitally important is that it put a bit of the joy back into supporting Scotland, and gave the team a bit of self-belief.

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

You’re absolutely right. We were used to qualifying - 1994 was the only tournament we missed in the 90s - and we weren’t prepared to put up with a development side for the amount of time that was needed. But we would be now.

 

We may have got into the Euros by the back door, but getting there was still an achievement. Scotland had to beat a good team in their own back yard to qualify, and they needed a last-minute equaliser to stop us from doing it in normal time. And what is vitally important is that it put a bit of the joy back into supporting Scotland, and gave the team a bit of self-belief.

 

Nothing kills a team's confidence like the feeling that your manager is making mistakes in his preparation. Clarke always brushes off his own failings by saying the other team was very good, but the Czechs were not very good against us, neither were Croatia until we stood off them  and decided to let Modric run the game, and even Denmark must've been sitting there saying "lads, they are starting with Robertson on the right! Haha"

[alwaysthereinspirit]

35 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

When Tierney plays for Arsenal he generally looks like their best player.  That first half from him (and others) tonight was embarrassing.  

Tierney is a winey little diving $#!te. 
 

[Byyy The Light]

21 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

What I find frustrating at the moment is that people are saying ‘Scotland need to field the young players and stick with them through the initial poor results’ whilst simultaneously putting the boot into Gilmour for being poor tonight. He’s 20 and this was his second start.

 

I agree with you. We have been rank for a long time and have relied on experienced journeymen and defensive tactics. We should play more youngsters and let them grow together, but we need to accept it won’t happen overnight. This is what did for Berti Vogts - he inherited a geriatric team from Craig Brown, had to build a new one from scratch and was sacked because results were poor. And at the time I was as guilty of calling for his head as anyone else.

We don’t have any decent young players to grow together. When will people wake up to this fact?

 

The game is a busted flush. Get the professional set up right and grow the talent pool across the whole league set up. The OF 4 times a season pish has to go. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

27 minutes ago, VALDOS' said:

Like I said, McKenna is a bombscare and he is there by chance tonight. Hanley does have enough about him and Norwich fans will vouch for that.

 International football is still a massive step up for any player, truth is Souttar wasn't exactly outstanding in the few outings he has had, that coupled with injuries and a season in the championship, it's understandable why Clarke hasn't looked in his direction.

 

It’s not that he doesn’t look in his direction, it’s that he’d be no worse than the dross who do play. Get him and other young guys in. Stop worrying about losses. We’re never going to win any tournament we enter. So go out all guns blazing and let them have some fun. Trying to only lose by the odd goal or two is a waste of all their time.

”we can’t beat them guys but let’s not get embarrassed”

is not a pep talk

[Smoked-Glass]

55 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

 

 

Great news 👍🤣

Do you dislike Ireland?? 

 

Why

[Fort Vallance]

Shite team, shite manager. Great keeper.

[neilnunb]

1 minute ago, Smoked-Glass said:

Do you dislike Ireland?? 

 

Why

 

 

Er, I'm not Irish. Eye bleeding to watch and have been for years.

 

That ok?

 

🙄

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

11 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said:

Do you dislike Ireland?? 

 

Why

Not just Republic. Also want England, Wales and Northern Ireland to lose every game they play.

[JackLadd]

Improved second half but the game was over at half-time. Did not expect anything else. 

[portobellojambo1]

Played poorly in the first half and deserved to be behind at H/T. Played a bit better second half but we don't really have what could be classed as a centre forward/striker that can get the goals needed to win football matches. Saturday versus Moldova, we should possibly win but I'm not convinced we will. Austria beat us at home 2-0 and tonight beat Moldova away from home 2-0. Suppose you could say that makes us and Moldova about equal so maybe possible Saturday could end up 0-0.

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

Played poorly in the first half and deserved to be behind at H/T. Played a bit better second half but we don't really have what could be classed as a centre forward/striker that can get the goals needed to win football matches. Saturday versus Moldova, we should possibly win but I'm not convinced we will. Austria beat us at home 2-0 and tonight beat Moldova away from home 2-0. Suppose you could say that makes us and Moldova about equal so maybe possible Saturday could end up 0-0.

We drew 2-2 at home to Austria, we haven’t played them away yet.  But they could well beat us 2-0.

[Bongo 1874]

Sorry but why aren't Souttar and Cooper Scotlands centre half pairing? Why do we continue to play a 3 at the back, why are we playing Robertson out of position when we have two young right backs that can play that position in Nathan Patterson, and Calvin Ramsay. 

 

Embarrassing. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Fact of the matter is most  of our players are internationally average at best. We're a bit better than we've been for a long while but that doesn’t say a helluva lot.

I lost interest long ago.

[Smoked-Glass]

5 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Not just Republic. Also want England, Wales and Northern Ireland to lose every game they play.

I'm the opposite except England. 

 

Always support the UK and Irish teams but can't do England. 

[gregzy2k7]

I checked the result on my phone, seen that Denmark had won 2 zip and just said meh, that's where I'm at, I honestly couldn't care less, we're shite and we know we are, if hearts had lost 2-0 I would have been devastated.

Was nice seeing them in a major tournament this year but it won't be happening again for a while unless we get it gifted to us.

[Arthur Morgan]

16 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

I checked the result on my phone, seen that Denmark had won 2 zip and just said meh, that's where I'm at, I honestly couldn't care less, we're shite and we know we are, if hearts had lost 2-0 I would have been devastated.

Was nice seeing them in a major tournament this year but it won't be happening again for a while unless we get it gifted to us.

 

Pretty much the same for me. I'm really not bothered if Scotland lose, it doesn't affect me how it would if Hearts lost a game.

[John Findlay]

7 hours ago, Fort Vallance said:

Shite team, shite manager. Great keeper.

Great keeper was at fault for the Danes first goal though. At fault in that he didn't come for the cross. At 6ft 3 tall and a ball to the left hand corner of your 6 yard box is yours all day long.

Very similar to the goal he conceded against Harry Kane in the 2-2 draw at Hampden.

Despite his height, coming for cross balls has been a constant weakness in Craig Gordon's game.

[Samuel Camazzola]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Great keeper was at fault for the Danes first goal though. At fault in that he didn't come for the cross. At 6ft 3 tall and a ball to the left hand corner of your 6 yard box is yours all day long.

Very similar to the goal he conceded against Harry Kane in the 2-2 draw at Hampden.

Despite his height, coming for cross balls has been a constant weakness in Craig Gordon's game.

The fault sits with Tierney and his decision not to open himself up to be able to view the runner. Awful decision making on such a basic aspect of defending. 

 

They guy simply had to give him a deft nudge to create the space for an unchallenged leap. 

 

If Tierney gets that right, Gordon doesn't have a decision to make. 

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

The fault sits with Tierney and his decision not to open himself up to be able to view the runner. Awful decision making on such a basic aspect of defending. 

 

They guy simply had to give him a deft nudge to create the space for an unchallenged leap. 

 

If Tierney gets that right, Gordon doesn't have a decision to make. 

Gordon shouldn't have to rely on Tierney. The 6 yard box(the 18 yard box) are the goalkeeper's domain. It is the one part of the pitch that a goalie is in charge of or should be. Craig comes for the cross and everything else is insignificant.

[rudiatemyhamster]

Kids don’t play football in the street and our youth set ups are pish.  Result - pish national team.  Just look at Heart.  We have produced no talent in the past ten years.  That’s inexcusable and those in charge of youth development need to have a rethink.  We you look at the hours an amateur gymnast or boxer trains compared to a footballer there is no comparison.   If you worship the good of football, you are going to need some football monks.  

[portobellojambo1]

7 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We drew 2-2 at home to Austria, we haven’t played them away yet.  But they could well beat us 2-0.

 

Sorry, I must have totally misheard something being said either during the commentary or in the studio last night. Everything else seems to start failing as you ger older, I'm guessing my lugs fall into that category as well.

[So Make Some Noise..]

I'm not being funny but how was that starting 11 and the decision to play Robertson on the right & Fraser up front any worse than Levein's infamous 4-5-0 tactics. 

 

Utterly shocking team selection and tactics. Clarke lost us that game before it began and the proof is in the pudding when you're 2-0 down after 15 minutes and can't keep the ball for more than 2-3 passes for 45 minutes. Not a surprise we improved when we made the change. Not sticking up for the players but they were lost souls running around in a strange set up.

 

Special mention for Gilmour, so good on the ball.

[Harry Potter]

Need to up our game to get 2nd place in the table, 

[vegas-voss]

11 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

Ronaldo with 89th and 96th minute goals to give Portugal a 2-1 win over Ireland.

Guy is crap and too old though.

 

More like he is a goal machine with no signs of slowing down in that department.Unreal 111 now for Portugal against 45 different teams with only 18 ( could have been 19 ) of them penalties

[vegas-voss]

11 hours ago, jambopilms said:

McGregor is a perfect example of why we are shite. Mainstay in the national set up for years despite being nothing more than average. Even gets a game when playing shite for Celtic. Wouldn't get a game for any decent nation.

Is he now the captain as well taking over from Brown for both club and country.Cektic have just turned him into the next Brown really totally changed from the exciting young player he was ( hating him when he broke through always seemed to score ).

[colinmaroon]

11 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Yeah but he did have Fraser, and as the second half showed, THAT was the right thing to do...basically Clarke killed us at both the back and up front with the ludicrous decision to ask Robertson to try playing on the right. At international level you just don't do that...To me this was a more suicidal selection than Craig Levein's 4-6-0...At least Levein's selection almost got the draw. Tonight we were done within 15 mins...

 

I agree 100%.

 

Inept set up in first half.  McKenna at left back, which it looked like more than left of three, was a joke.

 

 

[Naisys Tackle]

16 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Based on what? He's barely played 90 minutes in a meaningful club match for Chelsea and has been ineffectual for an admittedly pish Norwich.

On tonight's performance, he doesn't deserve to start next game.

 

He was man of the match against Man City despite them getting skelped. 

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

I'm setting myself up for pelters here but back in the day that ball for the first goal was the keeper's all the way. He would wipe anything out in his path too. I love Craig but my initial thought was could he have come for it?

 

I appreciate the game has changed by the guy was on the edge of the six yard box when he headed it. 

 

The six yard area was the keeper's domain. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong but happy to read other views.

You are not alone with this view. See my earlier posts above.

Edited September 2, 2021 by John Findlay