Safe Standing Confirmed for England

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Seen the news today that the ban on standing is being lifted to allow safe standing in the top 2 leagues in the U.K. so with that precedent set along with Celtic, IMO we should get it in our ground,I’d buy a ticket for that section.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58357046?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

 

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this topic which periodically resurfaces every year or 2? 

Iirc were Celtic not some sort of trial club? Seems it’s now been proven safe and the argument has been won. What section of our ground should we turn into safe standing? If at all? Prefer to keep the whole stadium all seated? Is it compatible for Tynecastle or would we need to knock down / rebuild a stand?  I think we should install the rail seats all along the whole lower main stand imo. Bear pit. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

12 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Proper terracing or nothing for me.  I'll continue to sit, unless the sanitised rail seats are significantly cheaper.

Do you not think it’s wrong how those who want to stand are forced to sit tho? 80-90% of the stadium would still be all seated 

[kingantti1874]

It’s a must. Where would we do it though that’s the question 

[David McCaig]

Not a chance it'll ever happen at Tynecastle whilst Section N continue their moronic fight to bring sectarian hatred back into the mainstream!!

[A_A wehatethehibs]

3 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Not a chance it'll ever happen at Tynecastle whilst Section N continue their moronic fight to bring sectarian hatred back into the mainstream!!

Why “not a chance”? As of tomorrow the fans own this club mate.

 

I would say it should be a motion for the board to carry out a consultation and study of the costs ASAP so we can work out where if anywhere we can put it. Or if we would need a replacement stand. 

[David McCaig]

Nothing you say changes anything.

 

The make up of the board will remain unchanged and the mantra is fan owned not fan run.  The boards current challenge will be how to tackle the increasingly bigoted behaviour of Section N.

 

There is more chance of Section N being shut than the club facilitating the bigots by building them a standing area.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

Nothing you say changes anything.

 

The make up of the board will remain unchanged and the mantra is fan owned not fan run.  The boards current challenge will be how to tackle the increasingly bigoted behaviour of Section N.

 

There is more chance of Section N being shut than the club facilitating the bigots by building them a standing area.

Think you are misunderstanding something here. The board answers to the owner of the club, the foundation of Hearts. That’s us. So that means if there is demand for this, the board must respond, engage, and provide ideas or facts relating to what the fans want. They run the club at the behest of us. This will not be some kind of dictatorship, this will be a democracy and those in charge report to the electorate - the boss.

 

If the section N thing is a big deal for you, raise it, get a petition going and see what support you get, meanwhile others will raise safe standing and that will get support. And based on what the fans want, the board must act. 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Think you are misunderstanding something here. The board answers to the owner of the club, the foundation of Hearts. That’s us. So that means if there is demand for this, the board must respond, engage, and provide ideas or facts relating to what the fans want. They run the club at the behest of us. This will not be some kind of dictatorship, this will be a democracy and those in charge report to the electorate - the boss.

 

If the section N thing is a big deal for you, raise it, get a petition going and see what support you get, meanwhile others will raise safe standing and that will get support. And based on what the fans want, the board must act. 

I'd like nothing more than to see the Roseburn rebuilt as a giant safe standing Kop.

 

However, the potential occupants and beneficiaries of this need to drop the bigotry.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

I'd like nothing more than to see the Roseburn rebuilt as a giant safe standing Kop.

 

However, the potential occupants and beneficiaries of this need to drop the bigotry.

So you do support it in theory then 👍 

 

And you realise that your gripe with a particular section of fans, is an entirely separate issue. This is about providing a safe standing section for the Hearts fans who were superb at tannadice yesterday (if there is support / demand) and how to go about doing it.
 

If this is wanted, the club must take steps and publish the results of the feasibility study / consultation. I’m sure your concerns would get taken into account. 

[kingantti1874]

Wow, a decent thread around the inevitable re-introduction of standing and we are talking about 50 young laddies in section N.  Who won’t block anything btw..

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

So you do support it in theory then 👍 

 

And you realise that your gripe with a particular section of fans, is an entirely separate issue. This is about providing a safe standing section for the Hearts fans who were superb at tannadice yesterday (if there is support / demand) and how to go about doing it.
 

If this is wanted, the club must take steps and publish the results of the feasibility study / consultation. I’m sure your concerns would get taken into account. 

I absolutely support the concept, maybe the quid pro quo is that if the section can self police and behave like normal humans, the section goes back to seating.

 

In terms of practicalities, I think the steepness of the Tynecastle stands is a problem. Rebuilding the Roseburn is the perfect solution, but that relies on funding from James Anderson and friends.

[David McCaig]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Wow, a decent thread around the inevitable re-introduction of standing and we are talking about 50 young laddies in section N.  Who won’t block anything btw..

The board absolutely will block safe standing if X number of bigots can't behave.
 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

The board absolutely will block safe standing if X number of bigots can't behave.
 

Na I don’t think so, they will identify and eject said bigots when they have enough evidence.

 

whethet it’s this year, next year or in five years we will see safe standing at tynecastle. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

4 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

The board absolutely will block safe standing if X number of bigots can't behave.
 

And the board will be launched if they block something there’s mass demand for, on the basis of a completely separate issue with certain individuals. 

[David McCaig]

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

And the board will be launched if they block something there’s mass demand for, on the basis of a completely separate issue with certain individuals. 

In which case James Anderson and the other benefactors walk.

 

Can the Section N crew not just support Hearts (and 95% of what they do is brilliant) and drop the bigotry... Then we can all have what we want.

[Phil D. Corners]

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

And the board will be launched if they block something there’s mass demand for, on the basis of a completely separate issue with certain individuals. 

as of Monday, we are the board. 
 

 

I would love a standing section at Tynecastle as I really think it would improve the atmosphere at some points in the game.  
 

For me it would be in the Gorgie stand opposite the away fans. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

In which case James Anderson and the other benefactors walk.

 

Can the Section N crew not just support Hearts (and 95% of what they do is brilliant) and drop the bigotry... Then we can all have what we want.

Fine by me if they do. 
 

Nobody will be dictating to or blocking anything the owners of this club want to do with their football club. 

 

Now do us a favour and create your own topic about section N sectarianism. Why have you decided to derail this, totally off topic.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

2 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

as of Monday, we are the board. 
 

 

I would love a standing section at Tynecastle as I really think it would improve the atmosphere at some points in the game.  
 

For me it would be in the Gorgie stand opposite the away fans. 

It’s the smaller games where I think it would make the biggest impact. Not saying it’ll be a cauldron for Livi at home, but it would be an improvement 

[David McCaig]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Fine by me if they do. 
 

Nobody will be dictating to or blocking anything the owners of this club want to do with their football club. 

 

Now do us a favour and create your own topic about section N sectarianism. Why have you decided to derail this, totally off topic.

The two issues are totally interlinked and incredibly naive of you to think otherwise.

[Homme]

I think the lower sections of the stands are ideal for this.

 

Just how much is required etc.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

as of Monday, we are the board. 
 

 

I would love a standing section at Tynecastle as I really think it would improve the atmosphere at some points in the game.  
 

For me it would be in the Gorgie stand opposite the away fans. 

As of Monday ‘we’ are clearly not the board. The contributors to FoH are members of an organisation that is the majority shareholder of Heart of Midlothian plc. FoH will have a couple of directors on the club board. 
 

I’m not against a safe standing section ( used it in Germany ) but the club has indicated previously that it would be expensive, and likely impractical, to install at Tynecastle. However, no detail around that has been provided to allow a more informed view. 
 

 

[washniklaw]

Because of the sight line issue of some people standing and other sitting it has to be in a corner of a stand or a whole stand. I wouldn’t be against the whole of the Gorgie stand being turned into a kop like experience (maroon wall). I think it could almost be the party stand with the gorgie suite repurposed to allow for an amazing day out for a regular supporter. We have other suites and space to move match day dining into the main stand.
 

It comes with challenges, but it would create something unique.

[The Treasurer]

It will come down to finance. The cost of this will not provide an increase, financially to the club therefore it won't be cost effective 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

4 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

The two issues are totally interlinked and incredibly naive of you to think otherwise.

Absolutely 100% separate issues, I don’t sit in section N, you can’t get a ticket in there as it’s packed, and I am not talking about any of these individuals you are making accusations towards.
 

This is to provide for fans who are forced to sit in other areas of the ground, that don’t want to, who would like a safe standing option. That is the whole point of it as a concept. Section N will be standing, and they will be staying where they are, irrespective of safe standing. It is not interlinked whatsoever. 
 

Now do us all a favour **** off with your off topic ramblings 👍

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

It will come down to finance. The cost of this will not provide an increase, financially to the club therefore it won't be cost effective 

The club are actively trying to improve the atmosphere.. and a significant proportion of the clubs customers want it.  Cost will be relatively small - probably less than 1 month FOH contribution

[davemclaren]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

The club are actively trying to improve the atmosphere.. and a significant proportion of the clubs customers want it.  Cost will be relatively small - probably less than 1 month FOH contribution

£100k to install safe standing? I think that’s a big underestimate. 

[1971fozzy]

Given how steep the stands are (due to footprint)  the introduction of safe standing would surely reduce capacity ? 
In an ideal world I’m all for it , but not at the expense of reducing income and I really don’t want to spend money on altering / re-building a stand so however many can stand.

 

[Nelly Terraces]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Not a chance it'll ever happen at Tynecastle whilst Section N continue their moronic fight to bring sectarian hatred back into the mainstream!!

By that logic the fact there's seats there now actually contributes to this behaviour.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

£100k to install safe standing? I think that’s a big underestimate. 

It depends if it’s compatible with the current stands or would require a new purpose built stand. If it’s the current stands, is it not basically just hand rails and seats installed in situ where the current ones are? Can’t be that astronomical costs? 

[Heartsofgold]

22 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

as of Monday, we are the board. 
 

 

I would love a standing section at Tynecastle as I really think it would improve the atmosphere at some points in the game.  
 

For me it would be in the Gorgie stand opposite the away fans. 

Maybe so but the mantra that has been said is 'fan owned but not fan run'.  The running of the club will be left to the board in place.

[Phil D. Corners]

17 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It’s the smaller games where I think it would make the biggest impact. Not saying it’ll be a cauldron for Livi at home, but it would be an improvement 

I think section G and N need to United to have one focused signing sections. 
 

Songs get started but always seem to fizzle out. 

[Heartsofgold]

As for safe standing, I don't think it'll happen at Tynecastle due to the steepness of our stands.  I've pretty sure someone put up info on this in the last standing tread we had.

[Gorgie_Rules]

Its not required at Tynecastle. Section N lower and top half of G upper are already standing sections. 
 

Moving those at sit in those sections to one area, liklely along the bottom of the Gorgie or Wheatfield would sanitise the atmosphere at Tynecastle 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Heartsofgold said:

As for safe standing, I don't think it'll happen at Tynecastle due to the steepness of our stands.  I've pretty sure someone put up info on this in the last standing tread we had.

I think that needs to be confirmed formally with supporting documentation from a feasibility study. That’s the next action for the club, do the research and publish the facts. And if it’s proven impossible, the campaign for a new school end starts there. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think that needs to be confirmed formally with supporting documentation from a feasibility study. That’s the next action for the club, do the research and publish the facts. And if it’s proven impossible, the campaign for a new school end starts there. 

A new school end? 😳😄

[DMac-89]

59 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I'd like nothing more than to see the Roseburn rebuilt as a giant safe standing Kop.

 

However, the potential occupants and beneficiaries of this need to drop the bigotry.

If its the Roseburn, then what do you do with away fans? Essentially for the biggest games, just made it better for them. If you want to rebuild a Kop, it should be the Gorgie Road end.

 

The sensible solution is for safe standing zones in the lower sections of G, N and possibly P given most of the fans in there seem to stand anyway...

 

[Phil D. Corners]

14 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

As of Monday ‘we’ are clearly not the board. The contributors to FoH are members of an organisation that is the majority shareholder of Heart of Midlothian plc. FoH will have a couple of directors on the club board. 
 

I’m not against a safe standing section ( used it in Germany ) but the club has indicated previously that it would be expensive, and likely impractical, to install at Tynecastle. However, no detail around that has been provided to allow a more informed view. 
 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Maybe so but the mantra that has been said is 'fan owned but not fan run'.  The running of the club will be left to the board in place.

I know we won’t be running the club directly, but being fan owned and with financial backing we would have some sway. 
 

I would like to understand what it would take for it to happen at Tyne. Then the FoH/fans can offer to fund it!
 

Let’s hope the news that this has been approved in England can help us bring this to Scotland.  

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

A new school end? 😳😄

Well it’s not a school anymore so… a new student accommodation end? 🤔

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think that needs to be confirmed formally with supporting documentation from a feasibility study. That’s the next action for the club, do the research and publish the facts. And if it’s proven impossible, the campaign for a new school end starts there. 

Not sure what you mean?  There's absolutely no space at the back of the school end to redevelop a stand there.

 

Plus the fact those massive ethanol tanks are right behind the stand AND the already submitted plans to redevelop the old high school into student housing AND the fact the old High school is a listed building so we can't just flatten it and rebuild.

[kila]

Would love the entire Gorgie stand to be rail seating.

 

Move the family section to the new stand. 

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Well it’s not a school anymore so… a new student accommodation end? 🤔

I can’t see us building any new stands for a long time, unless one starts to fall down. 😄

[David McCaig]

18 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

By that logic the fact there's seats there now actually contributes to this behaviour.

Or the fact that they aren't sitting in them!!!

[plastic_bas]

Does rail seating still reduce your overall capacity? I remember an equivalence of 1.3 regular seats being mentioned in the past. In a league where ticket sales are still vital income, it doesn't really make sense. Fans would need to pay a premium, when I'm guessing it's mostly younger fans who are interested. 

 

Also, to be this far into the FOH project and see people talk about sacking boards and forcing through decisions is a bit depressing. Fan owned but not fan run isn't that hard to grasp. 

[John Findlay]

40 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

as of Monday, we are the board. 
 

 

 

No we are not. We are the majority shareholders. I would like to think there will be more consultation between who is ever on the board and ALL of the Hearts support in the future.

As to safe standing I would look at the lower Wheatfield sections A, B, and C to begin with. I am sure there will be discussions by all at Hearts on it.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I can’t see us building any new stands for a long time, unless one starts to fall down. 😄

Aye the campaign would be a long one probably….  so hope there’s areas of the ground where the new system is possible. 
 

I thought the gorgie and main were not as steep angles as the wheatfield and roseburn, so I thought maybe in one of them 2. Lower gorgie would be a decent shout as there’s often empty seats there. But the only way to know, is to have the research done by the people that know the rail system and publish the documents. It’s literally just handrails in front of the seats, and a different type of seat thats installed, into the rail, so I genuinely can’t see why the steepness of the stand actually matters tbh 

[Footballfirst]

........... the most obvious impediment to a wholesale return of standing to Scottish top-flight stadiums is cost. It cost The Killie Trust around £40,000 to create a total of 324 safe standing spaces, and a wider conversion of Rugby Park would perhaps be beyond the means of either the fan organisation or even the club itself (although the Trust have said that, should there be sufficient demand, they may look to expand).

[Francis Albert]

Despite my advancing years if in a ground with proper terracing I would always choose to stand. But I can t see the attraction of standing trapped for 90 minutes in a space no larger or not significantly larger than that taken up by a seat. 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, plastic_bas said:

Does rail seating still reduce your overall capacity? I remember an equivalence of 1.3 regular seats being mentioned in the past. In a league where ticket sales are still vital income, it doesn't really make sense. Fans would need to pay a premium, when I'm guessing it's mostly younger fans who are interested. 

 

Also, to be this far into the FOH project and see people talk about sacking boards and forcing through decisions is a bit depressing. Fan owned but not fan run isn't that hard to grasp. 

No increases it. For every 3 people you can technically accommodate and additional 1.  That said.  I’m not sure revaluations in the U.K. allow for it

[Homme]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

No we are not. We are the majority shareholders. I would like to think there will be more consultation between who is ever on the board and ALL of the Hearts support in the future.

As to safe standing I would look at the lower Wheatfield sections A, B, and C to begin with. I am sure there will be discussions by all at Hearts on it.

 

What about the people in E who won't be able to see down the line for this standing?

 

It has to be the lower sections of a full stand IMO. Whether the demand would be there for the full Wheatfield I'm unsure. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

........... the most obvious impediment to a wholesale return of standing to Scottish top-flight stadiums is cost. It cost The Killie Trust around £40,000 to create a total of 324 safe standing spaces, and a wider conversion of Rugby Park would perhaps be beyond the means of either the fan organisation or even the club itself (although the Trust have said that, should there be sufficient demand, they may look to expand).

So the above guess of about £100k is not that far off TBH depending how big a section. 
 

It is all about the demand tho tbf, that is what it would boil down to. Would it help put more bums on seats so to speak.