JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Nope . I don’t support any “ rights “ which impact on other peoples rights In this instance, trans rights. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, Smithee said: In this instance, trans rights. Right? I’m out having lunch . I’ll get back to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 7 hours ago, Smithee said: You're basically agreeing that you don't support trans rights though, unless I'm missing something. It seems like a fair thing to say IMO He does support trans rights. you can support trans rights , whilst also thinking it is impossible to change sex. Of course you can change gender, which is a load of made up cobblers. But the change sex bit- not so much. Hence why they are trans - and not just women. the two are very different things. sex based rights and gender based rights should also be different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: He does support trans rights. you can support trans rights , whilst also thinking it is impossible to change sex. Of course you can change gender, which is a load of made up cobblers. But the change sex bit- not so much. Hence why they are trans - and not just women. the two are very different things. sex based rights and gender based rights should also be different things. Yep 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 23 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: He does support trans rights. you can support trans rights , whilst also thinking it is impossible to change sex. Of course you can change gender, which is a load of made up cobblers. But the change sex bit- not so much. Hence why they are trans - and not just women. the two are very different things. sex based rights and gender based rights should also be different things. Does he? Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, Smithee said: Does he? Where? Look back on this thread . I’m not repeating myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoked-Glass Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 This stuff is the biggest face palm in the current world. If I had a quid for every gender there was then..I'd have 2 quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said: This stuff is the biggest face palm in the current world. If I had a quid for every gender there was then..I'd have 2 quid. Hopefully in a few months , not even years we will all just laugh remembering that some people said some women have penis, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said: This stuff is the biggest face palm in the current world. If I had a quid for every gender there was then..I'd have 2 quid. I'm happy for people to express themselves but increasingly as I see it there are mentally ill men imposing themselves on women . And the alarming rate of teenagers 9n this road and being supported by medical people is a joke. As you say a face palm to beat most others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Hopefully in a few months , not even years we will all just laugh remembering that some people said some women have penis, I doubt it. Seems that the entertainment industry are all over this and everyone is shit feared to call it out for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 44 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Look back on this thread . I’m not repeating myself **** that for a game of conkers! You could answer but fair play if you don't want to, I'm not that into it - just offering an observation from the outside looking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 24 minutes ago, Ked said: I doubt it. Seems that the entertainment industry are all over this and everyone is shit feared to call it out for what it is. No there are moves afoot . Celebrities like Bette Midler ( a gay icon as such ) now stating clearly what a woman is . It’s going the right way . 23 minutes ago, jonesy said: When did sex and gender become separated? For a long time, I thought they were the same thing. A quick look at etymology websites suggests that the use of 'gender' as an interchangeable form of 'sex' goes back centuries. So - and this is not just aimed at you, Doc - when and why did they start to become different? They became separated when the militant trans brigade knew that sex is immutable so they had to say some concept had the ability to trans ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 1 minute ago, jonesy said: That's kind of how it feels, really. This whole 'socially constructed' angle feels rather carefully constructed in itself. Yes I think so . As Dr Jambo says gender is a load of nonsense really . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 Thoughts on the fa'afafine of Samoa? A recognised, traditional third gender, born male but with traditional male and female traits. Their partners are straight men and there are no restrictions on them holding office, becoming chief etc. They marry men, the men aren't considered homosexual, and negative social reactions are very rare. It's believed this goes back centuries at least - two sexes, three genders. It sounds to me like it's human, and like nearly everything, nowhere near black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 Just now, jonesy said: What do you do when you run out of Samoans? You pop out and get Samoa. Wahey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 Guess which one has played for the American Samoa men's team in a World Cup qualifier Jaiyah Saelua, who represented them both before and after transitioning, although as I understand it transitioning isn't that common for fa'afafine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 A landmark decision today https://mforstater.medium.com/press-statement-maya-forstaters-victory-in-employment-tribunal-a-win-for-free-speech-and-99365009baa1?fs=e&s=cl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, Smithee said: Thoughts on the fa'afafine of Samoa? A recognised, traditional third gender, born male but with traditional male and female traits. Their partners are straight men and there are no restrictions on them holding office, becoming chief etc. They marry men, the men aren't considered homosexual, and negative social reactions are very rare. It's believed this goes back centuries at least - two sexes, three genders. It sounds to me like it's human, and like nearly everything, nowhere near black and white. What are “ traditional male and female traits “ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: What are “ traditional male and female traits “ ? You'd need to dive into Samoan culture for that, I've only skimmed the subject after watching something that mentioned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 How about Muxes in Mexico? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muxe They reckon there are 10 million hijras in India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 7, 2022 Author Share Posted July 7, 2022 The loonies are even after dear Marilyn . A trail blazer who dressed his his own way but didn’t say he was trans . It’s a fad ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: The loonies are even after dear Marilyn . A trail blazer who dressed his his own way but didn’t say he was trans . It’s a fad ! No thoughts on third genders across the world? How could could it be a thing in other cultures if it's so unnatural and a result of our Western society? Genuine questions, I want to know how you square all these things off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Smithee said: No thoughts on third genders across the world? How could could it be a thing in other cultures if it's so unnatural and a result of our Western society? Genuine questions, I want to know how you square all these things off. I watched a documentary recently about the various South Sea islands with Martin Clunes where he met some of the 3rd gender people in Samoa. What came across is that in theory it is all hunky dory but in reality they are viewed with suspicion and often mocked. Though this tends to be from either people influenced by western religion and culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tazio said: I watched a documentary recently about the various South Sea islands with Martin Clunes where he met some of the 3rd gender people in Samoa. What came across is that in theory it is all hunky dory but in reality they are viewed with suspicion and often mocked. Though this tends to be from either people influenced by western religion and culture. Similar to what I've read, there was really no societal negativity toward the whole thing until honky arrived with our filthy western ways and never-ending supply of judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Smithee said: Similar to what I've read, there was really no societal negativity toward the whole thing until honky arrived with our filthy western ways and never-ending supply of judgement. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pacific-samoa-gender-idUSKCN1UQ036 Is this what you're talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Now I know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 8 hours ago, Smithee said: No thoughts on third genders across the world? How could could it be a thing in other cultures if it's so unnatural and a result of our Western society? Genuine questions, I want to know how you square all these things off. Genders are not “real”. call yourself whatever you want and do what you want. not a big deal, frankly. when there is dissociation from sex and gender, then it throws up potential problems that need resolved. They haven’t been. I agree there has always been a fluidity to gender , and this is not a new thing. However, the surgery etc had added a new complication, as has the removal of safe spaces not that long after they were created. All calm in the debate has vanished . There appears very little actual evidence for people to use, but that’s psychiatry for you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, jonesy said: Now I'm not one to kink-shame, but you seem to have done more than a healthy amount of research on these people, Smithster... 😇 Wouldn't bother me in the slightest! I kind of regret that I'm just straight. I'm technically open to anything really, it's just that I really like boobs but not winkles. If I ever meet the winkle that I just have to get torn into though, I'm cool with that. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoked-Glass Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 On 07/07/2022 at 22:52, Smithee said: Wouldn't bother me in the slightest! I kind of regret that I'm just straight. I'm technically open to anything really, it's just that I really like boobs but not winkles. If I ever meet the winkle that I just have to get torn into though, I'm cool with that. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 30 minutes ago, Ked said: What? Who GAF? It's the 21st century, people **** who they want to ****. If I was being honest I can't see it ever happening, but if it was something I suddenly wanted to do one day why wouldn't I? It would annoy my da tremendously too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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