CF11JamTart Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60435954 "A women's group has convinced judges that an attempt by the Scottish government to expand the definition of "woman" to include transwomen breaches equality law." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo_jim2001 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 I'm confused as fk with all this,,,is it chicks with dicks or guys with tits..live and let live is my motto🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 22 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60435954 "A women's group has convinced judges that an attempt by the Scottish government to expand the definition of "woman" to include transwomen breaches equality law." Great news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jambo_jim2001 said: I'm confused as fk with all this,,,is it chicks with dicks or guys with tits..live and let live is my motto🙄 Sorry to burst your bubble but there no such thing as “ chicks with dicks” those people are biological men with surgery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo_jim2001 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Consider my bubble popped,is it still save to say that,I miss the old days, things were less complicated back then.🥺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 hour ago, JamesM48 said: Sorry to burst your bubble but there no such thing as “ chicks with dicks” those people are biological men with surgery What surgery would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 minute ago, graygo said: What surgery would that be? Breast augmentation I’d imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Jambo_jim2001 said: Consider my bubble popped,is it still save to say that,I miss the old days, things were less complicated back then.🥺 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Just now, Tazio said: Breast augmentation I’d imagine. Or appendix removal? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Appen-dicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tazio said: Appen-dicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 Simple explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Simple explanation Like this graphic 👍 I'm not so in agreement about the ruling above though. I see no issue with trans-women being included as women. I'd agree if they were seeking to be considered female though. Surely that BBC link is just entrenching gender ideology? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Taffin said: Like this graphic 👍 I'm not so in agreement about the ruling above though. I see no issue with trans-women being included as women. I'd agree if they were seeking to be considered female though. Surely that BBC link is just entrenching gender ideology? It comes down to what's the definition of a woman? I see it as an adult female human. But that would not sit well with the "trans-women are women" blanket statement. Which in itself has a difficulty. What's a trans-woman? Someone with sex = male who identifies as female? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I am probably pretty liberal in a live and let live kinda way... At least that's what I tell mself. I do see a threat, though, about society sleepwalking in to the erosion of women's rights. Whether refuges, sports, safety, political representation, etc. The first time i was aware of the issue was when Labour were getting in a mess about transwomen being on women-only shortlists. (The party line was "yes! Obviously!") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: It comes down to what's the definition of a woman? I see it as an adult female human. But that would not sit well with the "trans-women are women" blanket statement. Which in itself has a difficulty. What's a trans-woman? Someone with sex = male who identifies as female? Yeh it's incredibly complicated. For me, a woman is all of the social and gender norms we've applied to (as you say), an adult female. It's just made up though imo, what are the supposed traits of an adult female that would require the label of 'woman' rather than just adult female human? The idea of a woman beyond biology suggest theirs some cookie-cutter concept they should all adhere to. I guess I'm just of the opinion that there are scientific biological differences between males and females and the rest is just fluff we've made up. Once upon a time a woman would have been considered to merely be the wife of a man. I think we'd all agree that's a ridiculous notion these days. The sooner people are happy being whoever they want to be an not letting their sex be a driver of that the better. You're either an adult female human, or you're not. Whether you wear pink, drink prosecco or talking shop is neither here nor there; as an adult male human I like all of those. I also like F1, football and video games, which my partner ('woman') also likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: I am probably pretty liberal in a live and let live kinda way... At least that's what I tell mself. I do see a threat, though, about society sleepwalking in to the erosion of women's rights. Whether refuges, sports, safety, political representation, etc. The first time i was aware of the issue was when Labour were getting in a mess about transwomen being on women-only shortlists. (The party line was "yes! Obviously!") Just to add to my response above, I totally agree. The solution though imo is to talk of female-only shortlists. Then there's no grey area. You are either a female, or your not. Women-only just invites that sort dispute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Taffin said: Yeh it's incredibly complicated. For me, a woman is all of the social and gender norms we've applied to (as you say), an adult female. It's just made up though imo, what are the supposed traits of an adult female that would require the label of 'woman' rather than just adult female human? The idea of a woman beyond biology suggest theirs some cookie-cutter concept they should all adhere to. I guess I'm just of the opinion that there are scientific biological differences between males and females and the rest is just fluff we've made up. Once upon a time a woman would have been considered to merely be the wife of a man. I think we'd all agree that's a ridiculous notion these days. The sooner people are happy being whoever they want to be an not letting their sex be a driver of that the better. You're either an adult female human, or you're not. Whether you wear pink, drink prosecco or talking shop is neither here nor there; as an adult male human I like all of those. I also like F1, football and video games, which my partner ('woman') also likes. I love that bit I've marked in bold. Nice one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo_jim2001 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 hour ago, JamesM48 said: Simple explanation What about the pussycat? Is that subliminal?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 8 hours ago, Taffin said: Like this graphic 👍 I'm not so in agreement about the ruling above though. I see no issue with trans-women being included as women. I'd agree if they were seeking to be considered female though. Surely that BBC link is just entrenching gender ideology? I do. I think trans women are trans women. 8 hours ago, CF11JamTart said: It comes down to what's the definition of a woman? I see it as an adult female human. But that would not sit well with the "trans-women are women" blanket statement. Which in itself has a difficulty. What's a trans-woman? Someone with sex = male who identifies as female? Adulr female human is my definition. 8 hours ago, CF11JamTart said: I am probably pretty liberal in a live and let live kinda way... At least that's what I tell mself. I do see a threat, though, about society sleepwalking in to the erosion of women's rights. Whether refuges, sports, safety, political representation, etc. The first time i was aware of the issue was when Labour were getting in a mess about transwomen being on women-only shortlists. (The party line was "yes! Obviously!") Good comment 8 hours ago, Taffin said: Yeh it's incredibly complicated. For me, a woman is all of the social and gender norms we've applied to (as you say), an adult female. It's just made up though imo, what are the supposed traits of an adult female that would require the label of 'woman' rather than just adult female human? The idea of a woman beyond biology suggest theirs some cookie-cutter concept they should all adhere to. I guess I'm just of the opinion that there are scientific biological differences between males and females and the rest is just fluff we've made up. Once upon a time a woman would have been considered to merely be the wife of a man. I think we'd all agree that's a ridiculous notion these days. The sooner people are happy being whoever they want to be an not letting their sex be a driver of that the better. You're either an adult female human, or you're not. Whether you wear pink, drink prosecco or talking shop is neither here nor there; as an adult male human I like all of those. I also like F1, football and video games, which my partner ('woman') also likes. I think its rather uncomplicated. Notions of gender are just based on ludicrous stereotypes of masculinity and femininity. An ex and i used to argue frequently and he said i was " over emotional like a woman" in fact like his ex ( " a bird " as he called her) 6 hours ago, Jambo_jim2001 said: What about the pussycat? Is that subliminal?? Actually didn't notice it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 There’s an interesting situation where “trans-women are women” is the battle cry yet in debate nearly every trans person refers to themselves as a trans-woman or a trans-man. The very thing they and the loud allies are railing against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) And here was me thinking we had got away from the damaging stereotyping of gay men as drag queens , camp , feminine . Tragic article really Edited February 22, 2022 by JamesM48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, JamesM48 said: And here was me thinking we had got away from the damaging stereotyping of gay men as drag queens , camp , feminine . Tragic article really Not tragic at all unless Ant and Dec have suddenly both changed their sexuality? The more mainstream the better imo and you don’t get any more mainstream than Ant and Dec on a Saturday night. This quote from the article sums it up perfectly: “In a message to Ant and Dec, she said: "What you've done tonight is just amazing. It's going to show everyone around the world it's ok to be who you want to be." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: Not tragic at all unless Ant and Dec have suddenly both changed their sexuality? The more mainstream the better imo and you don’t get any more mainstream than Ant and Dec on a Saturday night. This quote from the article sums it up perfectly: “In a message to Ant and Dec, she said: "What you've done tonight is just amazing. It's going to show everyone around the world it's ok to be who you want to be." It says it will change the lives of LGBT+ people. Why would dressing up as women change the lives of gay people? James point is pretty clear. Gay people aren't all cross-dressing, camp and feminine. Some might be but to say Ant and Dec in drag will change the lives of gay people is offensive imo. It's not representative of your average gay person. Edited February 22, 2022 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, Taffin said: It says it will change the lives of LGBT+ people. Why would dressing up as women change the lives of gay people? James point is pretty clear. Gay people aren't all cross-dressing, camp and feminine. Some might be but to say Ant and Dec in drag will change the lives of gay people is offensive imo. It's not representative of your average gay person. Exactly . It is offensive to suggest it might change the lives of some gay people . I lived through the stereotyping of John Inman , Larry Grayson etc . It’s black face for gays really . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Taffin said: It says it will change the lives of LGBT+ people. Why would dressing up as women change the lives of gay people? James point is pretty clear. Gay people aren't all cross-dressing, camp and feminine. Some might be but to say Ant and Dec in drag will change the lives of gay people is offensive imo. It's not representative of your average gay person. 12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Exactly . It is offensive to suggest it might change the lives of some gay people . I lived through the stereotyping of John Inman , Larry Grayson etc . It’s black face for gays really . It strongly sends out the message that it’s ok to be whoever you want to be though. It’s clearly made quite the positive impact on the 12yo in the article. Not sure how anyone can argue against that fact 🤷🏻♂️ I didn’t watch the show but if it was stated by those involved that all gay people cross-dress then I’ll accept the point you’re making. Edited February 22, 2022 by Alex Kintner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Exactly . It is offensive to suggest it might change the lives of some gay people . I lived through the stereotyping of John Inman , Larry Grayson etc . It’s black face for gays really . It has literally changed the life of the 12yo in the article. Comparing it to blackfacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: It strongly sends out the message that it’s ok to be whoever you want to be though. It’s clearly made quite the positive impact on the 12yo in the article. Not sure how anyone can argue against that fact 🤷🏻♂️ I didn’t watch the show but if it was stated by those involved that all gay people cross-dress then I’ll accept the point you’re making. I think as a gay person. I probably have more right to be offended about it than you . You seem to spread your virtual signalling over a variety of issues. Your really not getting it . Edited February 22, 2022 by JamesM48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, jonesy said: If whacking fake plastic knockers on Geordie celebrities is groundbreaking and to be celebrated, perhaps some respect is due for this trailblazer. lol oi humour will not be tolerated on this thread or indeed most others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: It has literally changed the life of the 12yo in the article. Comparing it to blackfacing. I think a good parent saying to a child we love and accept you for whomever you are or want to be is preferable to talentless cretins trans facing as women Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: It strongly sends out the message that it’s ok to be whoever you want to be though. It’s clearly made quite the positive impact on the 12yo in the article. Not sure how anyone can argue against that fact 🤷🏻♂️ I didn’t watch the show but if it was stated by those involved that all gay people cross-dress then I’ll accept the point you’re making. I didn't watch it either, but I read the article. Nobody is arguing against the positive impact it made on the 12yo in the article. The article is quite clear in making the link between what they did as being somehow representative of gay people...explicitly so right in the first paragraph: A make-up artist behind Ant and Dec's drag transformation says their primetime TV performance will help young people see LGBTQ+ representation in a positive light. Is it representative of a gay person? I'd argue not at all. It was representative of people who do drag, which is cool to make people comfortable about doing so, but it's offensive to say it's representing gay people. So if you attracted to the same sex you must also like dressing up as the opposite sex? The 80s called and want their stigma back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: I think as a gay person. I probably have more right to be offended about it than you . You seem to spread your virtual signalling over a variety of issues. Your really not getting it . 😂 You're all over the place. You’re super offended by this yet describe someone on another thread raising the importance of consent as “nauseating virtue signalling” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: lol oi humour will not be tolerated on this thread or indeed most others . Says the person getting upset about Ant and Dec 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: I think a good parent saying to a child we love and accept you for whomever you are or want to be is preferable to talentless cretins trans facing as women Why isn’t there a place for both? If even one child or parent felt more comfortable with the issue as a result of that show then where’s the harm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Taffin said: I didn't watch it either, but I read the article. Nobody is arguing against the positive impact it made on the 12yo in the article. The article is quite clear in making the link between what they did as being somehow representative of gay people...explicitly so right in the first paragraph: A make-up artist behind Ant and Dec's drag transformation says their primetime TV performance will help young people see LGBTQ+ representation in a positive light. Is it representative of a gay person? I'd argue not at all. It was representative of people who do drag, which is cool to make people comfortable about doing so, but it's offensive to say it's representing gay people. So if you attracted to the same sex you must also like dressing up as the opposite sex? The 80s called and want their stigma back. Is everyone covered by LGBTQ+ attracted to the same sex? Edit. They’re not as it also covers people questioning their sexuality, pansexual and those who consider themselves allies to the LGBT community. Edited February 22, 2022 by Alex Kintner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Just now, Alex Kintner said: Is everyone covered by LGBTQ+ attracted to the same sex? Not necessarily, but the first 3 are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: Is everyone covered by LGBTQ+ attracted to the same sex? Edit. They’re not as it also covers people questioning their sexuality, pansexual and those who consider themselves allies to the LGBT community. All entirely correct but there is also a certain narrative that all people within those parameters enjoy things like drag, Kylie concerts, and musical theatre. Totally not the case, if anything it's a damaging stereotype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: It has literally changed the life of the 12yo in the article. Comparing it to blackfacing. You try to hard to be right on. You never heard of Stanley Baxter and Danny La Rue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tazio said: All entirely correct but there is also a certain narrative that all people within those parameters enjoy things like drag, Kylie concerts, and musical theatre. Totally not the case, if anything it's a damaging stereotype. I didn’t watch the show but if it was explicitly stated in the show that everyone was gay then fair enough. The thing that struck me most from the article was the comment from the 12yo: ”"I never saw any drag when I was growing up and I hope that this will help the way children feel about themselves and what they are capable of and help them be more inspired for their future." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, John Findlay said: You try to hard to be right on. You never heard of Stanley Baxter and Danny La Rue? Fortunately don’t have to try. I was brought up being respectful of others, live my life in the same way and will bring my daughters up that way too. It’s sad that people in society find they have to “try” to be respectful but I respect them much more that those who don’t even bother trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, John Findlay said: You try to hard to be right on. You never heard of Stanley Baxter and Danny La Rue? Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 12 minutes ago, Tazio said: All entirely correct but there is also a certain narrative that all people within those parameters enjoy things like drag, Kylie concerts, and musical theatre. Totally not the case, if anything it's a damaging stereotype. 11 minutes ago, jonesy said: Much like the BAME label, LGBT is effectively useless and seems to be mostly used by companies, institutions (at which decision making will often be made by white straight people) and individuals (most of whom will be white and straight) seeking to portray themselves as understanding of others. The lived experience of, say, a black guy born in a Birmingham and an immigrant Afghan woman would be quite different. Similarly, it’s odd that we seem to broad brushstroke homosexuality (being attracted to the same sex) with transgenderism (not feeling comfortable with your biology). I’d go further, Taff, and say that not only is it offensive, but it’s no more than lazy stereotyping from people who claim to be doing the opposite. Hypocritical and, if seeking to genuinely create empathy and understanding between those in minorities and the sexual and racial majorities, probably damaging. As I was stating . Damaging , boring and lazy stereotyping . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Just now, Alex Kintner said: Fortunately don’t have to try. I was brought up being respectful of others, live my life in the same way and will bring my daughters up that way too. It’s sad that people in society find they have to “try” to be respectful but I respect them much more that those who don’t even bother trying. You haven't a clue about me. I can guarantee you I have more respect in my little toe than you have in your whole body. Men dressing up as women is nearly as old as time itself. Ant and Dec didn't do anything special last Saturday night. It was being done long before they were glints in their father's eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said: I didn’t watch the show but if it was explicitly stated in the show that everyone was gay then fair enough. The thing that struck me most from the article was the comment from the 12yo: ”"I never saw any drag when I was growing up and I hope that this will help the way children feel about themselves and what they are capable of and help them be more inspired for their future." In this case it has inspired a 12 year old who it seems is interested in drag. Fair enough. My argument (viewpoint?) is that from gay members of society becoming accepted and not treated as anything odd thanks to positive role models on TV and films, the emergence of drag as mainline television has brought back harmful stereotypes. I'd even say that things like Ru Paul's Dragrace are damaging. Gay people I know are split in terms of watching it but straight women seem to be almost universal in their enjoyment at it. People who are hard of thinking will make assumptions based on drag culture and equate it to all gay men when it blatantly isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: You always come across as being so easily influenced by what you read on social media 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, John Findlay said: You haven't a clue about me. I can guarantee you I have more respect in my little toe than you have in your whole body. Men dressing up as women is nearly as old as time itself. Ant and Dec didn't do anything special last Saturday night. It was being done long before they were glints in their father's eye. Bizarre. If you felt I was referring to you then that says a lot about you tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tazio said: In this case it has inspired a 12 year old who it seems is interested in drag. Fair enough. My argument (viewpoint?) is that from gay members of society becoming accepted and not treated as anything odd thanks to positive role models on TV and films, the emergence of drag as mainline television has brought back harmful stereotypes. I'd even say that things like Ru Paul's Dragrace are damaging. Gay people I know are split in terms of watching it but straight women seem to be almost universal in their enjoyment at it. People who are hard of thinking will make assumptions based on drag culture and equate it to all gay men when it blatantly isn't. Quite possibly. I’m just struggling to see where the show has done any damage. It seems to have been done with good intentions and if the article is right it’s been done with the right level of attention to detail which suggests it was respectful rather than for the sake of a quick gag/sketch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: You always come across as being so easily influenced by what you read on social media 😂 and you always come over as woke know it all about every conceivable issue. domestic abuse Women's safety Child protection and now Gay and Lesbian issues Very nauseating really. You must be a real hoot at a party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, John Findlay said: You haven't a clue about me. I can guarantee you I have more respect in my little toe than you have in your whole body. Men dressing up as women is nearly as old as time itself. Ant and Dec didn't do anything special last Saturday night. It was being done long before they were glints in their father's eye. Correct. He has now reframed it as a life changing experience for young gay people. Ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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