SNP and Greens coalition.

[Roxy Hearts]

9 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

All fair points. I don't have a problem with any of those, Roxy. I would maybe discuss who this 'we' is, however. It's very easy for us to group and ungroup people on very loose lines of heritage, culture and language, as I've seen from living in the US (had a barney with some locals about their obsession with being hyphenated-americans) Xinjiang and indy-heartland Catalonia.

 

Ultimately, the *******s in charge, however, tend to be the *******s in charge, no matter where you draw the lines on a map.*

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Except Finland, which I'd happily be annexed by if it meant their lovely lass of a leader were to have her portraits hanging all over the place

 

"We"  as in the people who live in Scotland. I really think we could do much better interacting with other nations on our own behalf and making choices to suit what's best for our economy. The psyche would change too, IMO.

[Mikey1874]

Anyone's children's school shaved the bottom off their classroom doors yet?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60261400

[Unknown user]

53 minutes ago, jonesy said:

You're becoming a bit of a bore, Smithee  

 

Not even sure what 'shitposting' is - assume it relates to posts you don't agree with 

 

 

Ah well, hoping you get over the boredom soon, you're much more fun when you're shitposting

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

I hate to think what kind of mess we would have ended up in with Covid had Westminster not provided the vaccinations.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/

 

I'm pretty sure we would have been fine. An independent Scotland would not have just not bothered getting any vaccines.  

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Ray Gin

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Feck off, you triple-masked, woad-faced, Mel-Gibson wannabe, ungrateful subject.

 

  Hide contents

Howzat? 

 

There he is!

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/

 

I'm pretty sure we would have been fine. An independent Scotland would not have just not bothered getting any vaccines.  

 

 

 

 

An Indy Scotland who is out of the EU and divorced from the rest of the UK would have been just fine.

[manaliveits105]

Way to go SG and taffs can’t have our kids having a bit fun 

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Way to go SG and taffs can’t have our kids having a bit fun 

 

A bit of fun  

 

I'm sure kids will be champing at the bit to read a commemorative jubilee book.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

A bit of fun  

 

I'm sure kids will be champing at the bit to read a commemorative jubilee book.

 

 

The poster's village will be priority. 

[manaliveits105]

13 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The poster's village will be priority. 

Books nae good for you as reading is a requirement 

[Unknown user]

31 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Way to go SG and taffs can’t have our kids having a bit fun 

 

It's fair enough, headmasters can decide for themselves if they want to deal with the inevitable complaints.

[The Mighty Thor]

19 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Books nae good for you as reading is a requirement 

You able to colour within the lines yet?

[Ainsley Harriott]

The future of the Union is safe in the hands of staunch unionist and royalist Krankie. 

 

[frankblack]

6 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

The future of the Union is safe in the hands of staunch unionist and royalist Krankie. 

 

 

Was there a picture of them waving UJ flags? 😆

[Lord Montpelier]

9 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

The future of the Union is safe in the hands of staunch unionist and royalist Krankie. 

 

She looks to be having a fantastic time for a change, fair play. 

 

Good to see the Magpie let out his cage for the day as well. 

[chuck berrys hairline]

McSelfie made sure to get the Union Jack in the frame 😅😂

[Jambo-Jimbo]

A new report from Public Health Scotland is suggesting that the minimum alcohol pricing has been a flop, in as much as the very people whom it was aimed at, instead of cutting down their alcohol consumption it has had little to no effect and in many cases their alcohol consumption has increased, the report also found that many people went without food or paying bills so as they could afford the booze.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeons-flagship-minimum-alcohol-27162352?int_source=nba

 

They were warned that this law would have little if any effect, yet more public money wasted it seems.

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

A new report from Public Health Scotland is suggesting that the minimum alcohol pricing has been a flop, in as much as the very people whom it was aimed at, instead of cutting down their alcohol consumption it has had little to no effect and in many cases their alcohol consumption has increased, the report also found that many people went without food or paying bills so as they could afford the booze.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeons-flagship-minimum-alcohol-27162352?int_source=nba

 

They were warned that this law would have little if any effect, yet more public money wasted it seems.

Well colour me surprised . Imagine that, an addict deciding to buy alcohol instead of food despite his / her meagre budget . Who would have thought that ? 

[Unknown user]

36 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

A new report from Public Health Scotland is suggesting that the minimum alcohol pricing has been a flop, in as much as the very people whom it was aimed at, instead of cutting down their alcohol consumption it has had little to no effect and in many cases their alcohol consumption has increased, the report also found that many people went without food or paying bills so as they could afford the booze.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeons-flagship-minimum-alcohol-27162352?int_source=nba

 

They were warned that this law would have little if any effect, yet more public money wasted it seems.

 

It's a move that I didn't approve of but the express take is very different from what I'm hearing experts on the radio say about it. Alcohol consumption went down, alcohol related deaths went down (both until the pandemic hit of course).

My only real beef with it is forcing a minimum price rather than taxing it to a minimum price and putting that money to schemes to help the addicted.

 

Take out the express' editorial slant and I don't see much negative at all.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Smithee

[manaliveits105]

It certainly had no effect on our late night posters 🍺🍻🥂🥃🍾🍸

[Jambo-Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's a move that I didn't approve of but the express take is very different from what I'm hearing experts on the radio say about it. Alcohol consumption went down, alcohol related deaths went down (both until the pandemic hit of course).

My only real beef with it is forcing a minimum price rather than taxing it to a minimum price and putting that money to schemes to help the addicted.

 

Take out the express' editorial slant and I don't see much negative at all.

 

It's not just the express, the whole media as far as I can see are all reporting it in the same way, that the policy has failed in it's main objective to help the most vulnerable drinkers cut down on their consumption, instead the report found that the main target group namely alcoholics cut back on other things such as food, paying bills, paying rent, so as they could afford to buy booze. This was something campaigners warned would happen and it appears that it has.

 

Instead of a one size fits all approach, there should have been a more targeted policy towards people with an alcohol addiction.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It's not just the express, the whole media as far as I can see are all reporting it in the same way, that the policy has failed in it's main objective to help the most vulnerable drinkers cut down on their consumption, instead the report found that the main target group namely alcoholics cut back on other things such as food, paying bills, paying rent, so as they could afford to buy booze. This was something campaigners warned would happen and it appears that it has.

 

Instead of a one size fits all approach, there should have been a more targeted policy towards people with an alcohol addiction.

That's not what the report says though, even quoted in that article it specifically says there's no one reaction among those needing most help. Some react this way, some react that way, and it's vital that support is given to those who do react badly.

 

 

The guy who led the research at PHS;

 

"Some reduced their spending on other things but others switched to lower strength drinks or simply bought less alcohol

"It is important that alcohol treatment services and other organisations find ways to support those who do have financial problems, particularly as inflation rises."

 

 

Public health intelligence adviser to PHS;

 

"People who drink at harmful levels, and particularly those with alcohol dependence, are a diverse group with complex needs who often experience multiple interacting health and social problems," she said.

 

"They are therefore unlikely to respond to MUP in one single or simple way.

 

"Many are likely to drink low-cost high-strength alcohol affected by MUP and are at greatest risk from their alcohol consumption.

 

"This population therefore has the potential to benefit the most from MUP but may also continue to experience harms."

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

It’s almost as if trying to interfere in too many aspects of people’s lives doesn’t work. What a surprise.

Anyway, I’m sure the “field jocks” will be along in a moment to tell us how great the policy has been and that everything is great in Scotland simply because there’s a giant arsehole occupying Downing Street.

 

Morally I agreed with it but I think we like our bevy too much! Don't think furlough helped. I was buying cases of wine, regularly! 🤣

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Morally I agreed with it but I think we like our bevy too much! Don't think furlough helped. I was buying cases of wine, regularly! 🤣

My alcohol consumption actually went right down to near enough zero . Never been a house drinker 

[jack D and coke]

How do you stop people drinking then? It was aimed at stopping young ones getting bonkers bottles of booze for £3 and causing havoc on their schemes. 
Mind the Daily Express said people would just hire transit vans to head to Berwick or Carlisle to buy shitloads. Then they’ll go on about public health up here? Scotland has an enormous problem with drink and I’ll include myself in that. All your life growing up it was about getting steaming and learning to hold your drink etc from big cousins and uncles.
God knows how you prise us away from booze it is so deep

rooted in our culture.

I was working with two weejys a last week who drank me to death and believe me I can hold my own normally. They were telling me about their dads who drink 25-30 pints on a Saturday I don’t know how you change that tbh. The minimum pricing was a blunt attempt at changing things and if it’s not worked fair enough. 
 

Edited June 7, 2022 by jack D and coke

[pablo]

Young people do drink less now. Maybe we just have to accept it's a generational thing?

[jack D and coke]

Just now, jonesy said:

You don't. You have to let folk make their own decisions.

 

Removing universal free healthcare might focus a few minds, however.

Then the daily express will run stories about how many people are dying. Then the hoose jocks will start saying we should be spending mare munney oan drunks and junkies again😂😂

Theyre utter goons. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

How do you stop people drinking then? It was aimed at stopping young ones getting bonkers bottles of booze for £3 and causing havoc on their schemes. 
Mind the Daily Express said people would just hire transit vans to head to Berwick or Carlisle to buy shitloads. Then they’ll go on about public health up here? Scotland has an enormous problem with drink and I’ll include myself in that. All your life growing up it was about getting steaming and learning to hold your drink etc from

big cousins and uncles. God knows how you prise us away from booze it is so deep

rooted in our culture. I was working with two weejys a last week who drank me to death and believe me I can hold my own normally. They were telling me about their dads who drink 25-30 pints on a Saturday I don’t know how you change that tbh. The minimum pricing was a blunt attempt at changing things and if it’s not worked fair enough. 
 

Yes I had to cut a friend out of my life as we were basically just “ drinking buddies” and only met to get drunk . I had suggested other things to do but he wasn’t having anything to do with that . I’m glad I’m not a heavy drinker. Once a week at most and like I said hardly ever in the house . I like the social aspect of pubs . 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

37 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's not what the report says though, even quoted in that article it specifically says there's no one reaction among those needing most help. Some react this way, some react that way, and it's vital that support is given to those who do react badly.

 

 

The guy who led the research at PHS;

 

"Some reduced their spending on other things but others switched to lower strength drinks or simply bought less alcohol

"It is important that alcohol treatment services and other organisations find ways to support those who do have financial problems, particularly as inflation rises."

 

 

Public health intelligence adviser to PHS;

 

"People who drink at harmful levels, and particularly those with alcohol dependence, are a diverse group with complex needs who often experience multiple interacting health and social problems," she said.

 

"They are therefore unlikely to respond to MUP in one single or simple way.

 

"Many are likely to drink low-cost high-strength alcohol affected by MUP and are at greatest risk from their alcohol consumption.

 

"This population therefore has the potential to benefit the most from MUP but may also continue to experience harms."

 

As you have pointed out above, MUP has the potential to help some, but has also clearly not helped others, indeed for some MUP has made things worse.  Proving that it is indeed a diverse problem.

[jack D and coke]

15 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes I had to cut a friend out of my life as we were basically just “ drinking buddies” and only met to get drunk . I had suggested other things to do but he wasn’t having anything to do with that . I’m glad I’m not a heavy drinker. Once a week at most and like I said hardly ever in the house . I like the social aspect of pubs . 

Covid changed that for me. Not in a good way at all😬😂

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Christ man, you love a bit of a hoose jock chat, dontcha?! 

 

Whatever papers like the Express print is irrelevant; how governments use their time and our money to nudge society in a better direction is. Making something more expensive doesn't necessarily mean folk avoid it. In fact, they may well be making it more attractive.

Ok so you want more Scottish govt intervenshuns? But would it no be “they’re interfering again” chat fae the “hoose jocks”?😃

[Roxy Hearts]

20 minutes ago, pablo said:

Young people do drink less now. Maybe we just have to accept it's a generational thing?

My daughters and their partners are not house drinkers per se but me and the wife, absolutely! 🤣

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Covid changed that for me. Not in a good way at all😬😂

Well I have always stuck to the principle if I’m feeling low / down like I felt during covid initially , alcohol isn’t the answer . It’s a depressant . Also get bad hangover and feel depressed too . 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

As you have pointed out above, MUP has the potential to help some, but has also clearly not helped others, indeed for some MUP has made things worse.  Proving that it is indeed a diverse problem.

That I agree with, what I don't agree with is the express reporting it as a bombshell that's a blatant failure.

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Well I have always stuck to the principle if I’m feeling low / down like I felt during covid initially , alcohol isn’t the answer . It’s a depressant . Also get bad hangover and feel depressed too . 

Good principle. I need to take heed of that😂

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Nope. A few as possible, verging on none at all would be my preference. 

 

In pursuit of knowledge,
every day something is added.
In the practice of the Tao,
every day something is dropped.
Less and less do you need to force things,
until you arrive at non-action.
When nothing is done,
nothing is left undone.

True mastery can be gained
by letting things go their own way.
It can’t be gained by interfering.

But the express and mail berate the SG for drug deaths etc…and you’re advocating they just remove all help? 
Radical.

I also know how the English owned Scottish papers would use that. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Good principle. I need to take heed of that😂

I genuinely live by that . 👍

[pablo]

15 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

My daughters and their partners are not house drinkers per se but me and the wife, absolutely! 🤣

 

Young drinkers are drinking less and starting their drinking career on spirits (in moderation). Beer and Cider no longer the automatic go-to entry level drink for the young.

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I'm advocating that the more you structure tinkering style support mechanisms and 'wee bit here, wee bit there' policies around something, the less likely it is that any serious change will be made. Moreover, I'd suggest that if people don't want to change, any and all attempts to do so will always land short. It'll never happen because the whole system of modern governance is informed by behaviourism and studies that support government interventions in people's lives, partly because these interventions create a sub-industry for academics to continue studying the results of their proposals in action.

 

You seem obsessed with the (gutter) press, mate. 

I’m obsessed with pointing out how much mince people have in their head when they quote an express or mail article I’ll give you that. 

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m obsessed with pointing out how much mince people have in their head when they quote an express or mail article I’ll give you that. 

You could make the same argument for 99% of the newspapers nowadays.

[Roxy Hearts]

16 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Young drinkers are drinking less and starting their drinking career on spirits (in moderation). Beer and Cider no longer the automatic go-to entry level drink for the young.

My youngest daughter likes the flavoured ciders.

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

You could make the same argument for 99% of the newspapers nowadays.

True. There’s always an angle somewhere.
Express and Mail are attack dogs though and have brought the cluster**** that is brexit etc. 

Nothing they do is for the average person in this country. 

[pablo]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

My youngest daughter likes the flavoured ciders.

 

Ready to drink cocktails in the take home market, and now just about every pub no matter how grotty has a cocktail menu! That's a huge option for consumers that was tiny only a few years ago. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

How do you stop people drinking then? It was aimed at stopping young ones getting bonkers bottles of booze for £3 and causing havoc on their schemes. 
Mind the Daily Express said people would just hire transit vans to head to Berwick or Carlisle to buy shitloads. Then they’ll go on about public health up here? Scotland has an enormous problem with drink and I’ll include myself in that. All your life growing up it was about getting steaming and learning to hold your drink etc from big cousins and uncles.
God knows how you prise us away from booze it is so deep

rooted in our culture.

I was working with two weejys a last week who drank me to death and believe me I can hold my own normally. They were telling me about their dads who drink 25-30 pints on a Saturday I don’t know how you change that tbh. The minimum pricing was a blunt attempt at changing things and if it’s not worked fair enough. 
 

Apart from the health aspect these guys must’ve loaded drinking that much.

[Roxy Hearts]

9 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ready to drink cocktails in the take home market, and now just about every pub no matter how grotty has a cocktail menu! That's a huge option for consumers that was tiny only a few years ago. 

Agreed!

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Apart from the health aspect these guys must’ve loaded drinking that much.

Floor layers. £3k a week they said they made. Boys were serious grafters I’ll say that.
Must be drinking about a grand of it a week though🤪😂

[Don Dan]

Nicola Sturgeon's flagship minimum alcohol price policy forced problem drinkers to sacrifice food and heating, according to her own Government's health agency.

Scotland became the first in the world to introduce a minimum unit pricing (MUP) in May 2018, meaning alcohol cannot legally be sold for cheaper than 50p per unit.

The SNP move was touted as a way to target problem drinkers who opt for low-price and high-alcohol drinks, reduce hospital admissions and save lives.

Sturgeon called it a 'vital public health measure' that 'will save lives', claiming it had 'strong support' from alcohol misuse experts before it was implemented.

But the new review has found no clear evidence that the policy changed how much alcoholics drank, or helped them overcome their dependence.

The Public Health Scotland report, released today, warned problem drinkers suffered 'financial strain' as price rises meant they spent more on alcohol — £107, compared to £83 per week previously.

Rather than cutting back how much they drank, 29 per cent reduced how much they spent on other things, such as food and utilities, researchers found.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Floor layers. £3k a week they said they made. Boys were serious grafters I’ll say that.
Must be drinking about a grand of it a week though🤪😂

Fair play to them.

 

[Don Dan]

Posted the above before reading the thread😳

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

How do you stop people drinking then? It was aimed at stopping young ones getting bonkers bottles of booze for £3 and causing havoc on their schemes. 
Mind the Daily Express said people would just hire transit vans to head to Berwick or Carlisle to buy shitloads. Then they’ll go on about public health up here? Scotland has an enormous problem with drink and I’ll include myself in that. All your life growing up it was about getting steaming and learning to hold your drink etc from big cousins and uncles.
God knows how you prise us away from booze it is so deep

rooted in our culture.

I was working with two weejys a last week who drank me to death and believe me I can hold my own normally. They were telling me about their dads who drink 25-30 pints on a Saturday I don’t know how you change that tbh. The minimum pricing was a blunt attempt at changing things and if it’s not worked fair enough. 
 

 

25-30 pints

 

Are they ****ing camels?