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Aberdeen Attendance - ‘full’ capacity confirmed ( updated )


mitch41

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, lost in space said:

Hearts need now to apply for 10000+ for the Dons game. Hopefully agreed - home fans only.

We only had 5000 on Saturday.

DOD WE APPLY FOR MORE?

We're we being cautious or did we apply for more and were turned down?

The club said they asked for nearly 10k and were turned down so to keep 1m apart they had fans sit 2 seats away from each other. 
Hopefully it was missed that a lot of that didn’t happen, hardly anyone wore masks and most folk stood. 
The club thought that if restrictions didn’t change then it would be 6-7k for Aberdeen, now though all season ticket holders who want to go must be allowed to do so surely. 

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Hungry hippo
3 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Hearts need now to apply for 10000+ for the Dons game. Hopefully agreed - home fans only.

We only had 5000 on Saturday.

DOD WE APPLY FOR MORE?

We're we being cautious or did we apply for more and were turned down?

 

With no social distancing required now I think we should be asking what measures we need in place to allow full capacity. Whether we get it or not is another matter but the new rules mean that should be the goal.

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47 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Did anyone expect the FM to do anything else given her track record and that of her dentist sidekick ?

 

 

It's made up nonsense to try and demonstrate some kind of control she wishes to exude

 

No problem with asking for masks etc but once more logic flies out the window when it comes to sporting events

 

When will people wake up to her and her government looking after their own image and not taking a common sense approach

 

Almost as bad as the district council and their fake concern for the road users and cyclists with the rather stupid barriers placed around the city

 

 

Well said. She just can’t let go. So far up her own arse. Now the club must beg and submit some enormous bureaucratic risk assessment to some some faceless official in the council. What a sorry state we’ve got into. 

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davemclaren
1 minute ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

The difference with nightclubs is that they will be able to open following the guidance. It would then be for environmental health to visit and check compliance. Whereas football clubs (looking for more than 5,000 capacity) will be required to apply in advance. That might seem like semantics but is quite a big difference in practice as well.

But I assume once they get a capacity approved it won’t get any less, unless something fails. So we need to aim high. 

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Jambof3tornado
Just now, Hungry hippo said:

 

With no social distancing required now I think we should be asking what measures we need in place to allow full capacity. Whether we get it or not is another matter but the new rules mean that should be the goal.

If they are bothered about getting in and out the grounds etc then we will be reduced capacity for a long time yet.

 

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Saint Jambo
5 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Hearts need now to apply for 10000+ for the Dons game. Hopefully agreed - home fans only.

We only had 5000 on Saturday.

DOD WE APPLY FOR MORE?

We're we being cautious or did we apply for more and were turned down?

 

I think we should absolutely be applying for full capacity. Nothing significant is about to change, so I think we should be saying we are confident we can put in mitigating measures to reduce risk.

 

4 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Oddly enough, probably not what the clubs want, but you probably are not far wrong. I still think Rangers will go ahead with 50k next week and we then move into the world of fair competition as a business

Do you mean you think they'll go ahead without permission from Glasgow Council or that you think they'll get permission from Glasgow Council for over 50k?

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davemclaren
1 minute ago, Rannoch said:

Well said. She just can’t let go. So far up her own arse. Now the club must beg and submit some enormous bureaucratic risk assessment to some some faceless official in the council. What a sorry state we’ve got into. 

We do that every year anyway as part of our licensing. Now there are additional covid parameters. 

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Looking for the legal eagles to jump in here.

If there are no legal requirements to limit numbers and we have a valid safety certificate, which we have, can anyone explain how any authority could limit numbers ?

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portobellojambo1
8 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Oddly enough, probably not what the clubs want, but you probably are not far wrong. I still think Rangers will go ahead with 50k next week and we then move into the world of fair competition as a business

 

No idea how many ST's Rangers have sold, but if they have sold the figure you use above, i.e. 50k, and Hearts have sold around 10k+ and both applied based on their full ST holding, and were successful with those applications would there be any way that could then be classed as unfair competition in any way. Any judgement made in terms of Hearts would probably have to be compared with differences in terms of HMFC and other clubs with similar levels of ST sales where those other clubs get permission to have more fans inside their stadiums.

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bigsuperslim1874
5 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Thats good to hear. I'm glad what I heard was wrong and agree about the creative accounting.

 

Wonder if the club can actually now come clear with what capacity we require to accommodate all fullt paid up season ticket holders assuming we cant have a full house.

If they got 7k I’d suggest that’s ballpark full ST sales. I reckon the council will do token checks and allow big numbers in soon - either that or fans/media/clubs will be hounding the council.

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Just now, Boab said:

Looking for the legal eagles to jump in here.

If there are no legal requirements to limit numbers and we have a valid safety certificate, which we have, can anyone explain how any authority could limit numbers ?

They’ve been given the legal authority to do just that based on certain criteria and risk assessment. It’s been in place since level zero

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Ainsley Harriott
1 minute ago, Boab said:

Looking for the legal eagles to jump in here.

If there are no legal requirements to limit numbers and we have a valid safety certificate, which we have, can anyone explain how any authority could limit numbers ?

Anyone would think the Scottish Government don't have a clue and make stuff up as they go along 

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1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

They’ve been given the legal authority to do just that based on certain criteria and risk assessment. It’s been in place since level zero

I thought that would be negated as we are, come Monday, not in any level.

I take your point though. There will be caveats stuck in there somewhere.

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Back to 2005

I don't see any reason why we wouldn't apply for full capacity. 1 meter distancing has been removed which was unscientific nonsense anyway.

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7 minutes ago, Rannoch said:

Well said. She just can’t let go. So far up her own arse. Now the club must beg and submit some enormous bureaucratic risk assessment to some some faceless official in the council. What a sorry state we’ve got into. 

Risk assessment is already done. It’s a two page document per match now, a short wait period and a number given back

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joondalupjambo
5 minutes ago, Boab said:

Looking for the legal eagles to jump in here.

If there are no legal requirements to limit numbers and we have a valid safety certificate, which we have, can anyone explain how any authority could limit numbers ?

Just read this on the BBC Sport website.

 

"Since 19 July, clubs have been applying to their local council to host more than the legal limit, which will be 5,000 from Monday.

They have to submit an operations and risk assessment to prove they are keeping spectators safe.

Clubs have to prove they have considered the potential impact on the local area in terms of a Covid-19 outbreak, as well as pressures on public transport and businesses, and whether lots of people are likely to be travelling from elsewhere in the country to the event.

Crucially, previous evidence of safely hosting an event counts in favour of applicants, and so clubs who have already had applications approved are likely to be in a strong position".

 

If the Council still need an application from the club for increased numbers then looks like the above types of things will be taken into consideration.  Anyway this the first time that I have read the above anywhere, mind not looking too hard.  So from a legal point of view this probably counts as deciding factors for events.

 

10k ST ticket holders with a large number coming from out of town, wonder how many got tickets in the previous ballots that had to travel?  I never got one for any of the games and I am in deep Fife so will be interesting if there is one for the Aberdeen game, better get one for that of will be a bit miffed.

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davemclaren
Just now, joondalupjambo said:

Just read this on the BBC Sport website.

 

"Since 19 July, clubs have been applying to their local council to host more than the legal limit, which will be 5,000 from Monday.

They have to submit an operations and risk assessment to prove they are keeping spectators safe.

Clubs have to prove they have considered the potential impact on the local area in terms of a Covid-19 outbreak, as well as pressures on public transport and businesses, and whether lots of people are likely to be travelling from elsewhere in the country to the event.

Crucially, previous evidence of safely hosting an event counts in favour of applicants, and so clubs who have already had applications approved are likely to be in a strong position".

 

If the Council still need an application from the club for increased numbers then looks like the above types of things will be taken into consideration.  Anyway this the first time that I have read the above anywhere, mind not looking too hard.  So from a legal point of view this probably counts as deciding factors for events.

 

10k ST ticket holders with a large number coming from out of town, wonder how many got tickets in the previous ballots that had to travel?  I never got one for any of the games and I am in deep Fife so will be interesting if there is one for the Aberdeen game, better get one for that of will be a bit miffed.

I got in all the way from Bonnyrigg. 

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lost in space
12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The club said they asked for nearly 10k and were turned down so to keep 1m apart they had fans sit 2 seats away from each other. 
Hopefully it was missed that a lot of that didn’t happen, hardly anyone wore masks and most folk stood. 
The club thought that if restrictions didn’t change then it would be 6-7k for Aberdeen, now though all season ticket holders who want to go must be allowed to do so surely. 

Thanks. I wasn't aware we had been turned down. So we were allowed 25% when Sevco were allowed more than 30%. Motherwell looked to have a larger crowd than us with a smaller stadium.

Ridiculous that Councils deciding now. Glasgow Council are a sad joke.

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joondalupjambo
1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I got in all the way from Bonnyrigg. 

Do you no have Maroon buses out there, you are probably classed as a local :D

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davemclaren
1 minute ago, joondalupjambo said:

Do you no have Maroon buses out there, you are probably classed as a local :D

We do. 🤣

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11 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Just read this on the BBC Sport website.

 

"Since 19 July, clubs have been applying to their local council to host more than the legal limit, which will be 5,000 from Monday.

They have to submit an operations and risk assessment to prove they are keeping spectators safe.

Clubs have to prove they have considered the potential impact on the local area in terms of a Covid-19 outbreak, as well as pressures on public transport and businesses, and whether lots of people are likely to be travelling from elsewhere in the country to the event.

Crucially, previous evidence of safely hosting an event counts in favour of applicants, and so clubs who have already had applications approved are likely to be in a strong position".

 

If the Council still need an application from the club for increased numbers then looks like the above types of things will be taken into consideration.  Anyway this the first time that I have read the above anywhere, mind not looking too hard.  So from a legal point of view this probably counts as deciding factors for events.

 

10k ST ticket holders with a large number coming from out of town, wonder how many got tickets in the previous ballots that had to travel?  I never got one for any of the games and I am in deep Fife so will be interesting if there is one for the Aberdeen game, better get one for that of will be a bit miffed.

I live in Fife and was successful for Inverness and Celtic

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Pasquale for King
14 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Thanks. I wasn't aware we had been turned down. So we were allowed 25% when Sevco were allowed more than 30%. Motherwell looked to have a larger crowd than us with a smaller stadium.

Ridiculous that Councils deciding now. Glasgow Council are a sad joke.

Looks that way, Hibs also had a similar type crowd in one stand so I’m not sure how getting in and out can be used as an excuse to keep the crowds low. 

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joondalupjambo
2 minutes ago, lou said:

I live in Fife and was successful for Inverness and Celtic

Yeah I was sure some from outside Edinburgh would have got tickets, guess my question is a bit broader, i.e. out of the circa 5k at the Celtic game how many traveled from further afield?  If one of the criteria for granting attendance figures was for the club to consider the numbers travelling then it would just be interesting to see what the split was on the 5k.  It might be the case that Hearts never even bothered to look at ST holder's post codes.  It just makes the transparency of it all very hard to understand.  

 

Good luck in any future ballots, surely you cannot get three in a row :lol:

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Jambof3tornado
6 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Yeah I was sure some from outside Edinburgh would have got tickets, guess my question is a bit broader, i.e. out of the circa 5k at the Celtic game how many traveled from further afield?  If one of the criteria for granting attendance figures was for the club to consider the numbers travelling then it would just be interesting to see what the split was on the 5k.  It might be the case that Hearts never even bothered to look at ST holder's post codes.  It just makes the transparency of it all very hard to understand.  

 

Good luck in any future ballots, surely you cannot get three in a row :lol:

With no travel restrictions in place I'm pretty sure postcodes didn't come into play.

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The Real Maroonblood
38 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Anyone would think the Scottish Government don't have a clue and make stuff up as they go along 

:jjyay:

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
41 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I think we should absolutely be applying for full capacity. Nothing significant is about to change, so I think we should be saying we are confident we can put in mitigating measures to reduce risk.

 

Do you mean you think they'll go ahead without permission from Glasgow Council or that you think they'll get permission from Glasgow Council for over 50k?

Probably a combo! Some persuasion perhaps :lol: They dont seem to be giving a flying **** these days Rangers, I see them going ahead as they planned by hook or crook

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Jack Torrance

So does this mean the Council have decided that being the Big Team we have a far wider reach than Hibs and there's more risk with folk flocking to see us, hence the lower capacity previously...

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
42 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

No idea how many ST's Rangers have sold, but if they have sold the figure you use above, i.e. 50k, and Hearts have sold around 10k+ and both applied based on their full ST holding, and were successful with those applications would there be any way that could then be classed as unfair competition in any way. Any judgement made in terms of Hearts would probably have to be compared with differences in terms of HMFC and other clubs with similar levels of ST sales where those other clubs get permission to have more fans inside their stadiums.

Champions League game, wont be for season tickets, i.e extra income

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I think we should apply for the season ticket amount for next game then look to build up. It is ridiculous but maybe have to

play them at their own game

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
3 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

I think we should apply for the season ticket amount for next game then look to build up. It is ridiculous but maybe have to

play them at their own game

I think you apply for the full 20k myself, seems to be a negotiation, best to go as high as you can

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joondalupjambo
12 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

With no travel restrictions in place I'm pretty sure postcodes didn't come into play.

Yeah but not sure if you read my earlier post.  The club had to apply to Edinburgh Council for the number to get in and they had to prove to them that they considered travel in doing so.  It looks like even though the SG rules about travel restrictions had been removed the Council were complicating matters by asking for this to be done .  Crazy because it just confuses the whole issue.  If post codes did not come into play I just wonder then how Hearts answered that requirement in their application to the Council.  Maybe they just ignored it?

 

Clubs have to prove they have considered the potential impact on the local area in terms of a Covid-19 outbreak, as well as pressures on public transport and businesses, and whether lots of people are likely to be travelling from elsewhere in the country to the event.

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I suspected it will be a shambles and fear it will be.

How could Motherwell prove there would be no potential impact by allowing 2K to come from the East…and that was in Level zero ?

SG have passed the ball here. No surprise. Devious is the word that springs to mind.

 

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, Boab said:

I suspected it will be a shambles and fear it will be.

How could Motherwell prove there would be no potential impact by allowing 2K to come from the East…and that was in Level zero ?

SG have passed the ball here. No surprise. Devious is the word that springs to mind.

 

Politicians passing the buck.

Who would’ve thought that can happen.

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Pasquale for King
26 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Yeah but not sure if you read my earlier post.  The club had to apply to Edinburgh Council for the number to get in and they had to prove to them that they considered travel in doing so.  It looks like even though the SG rules about travel restrictions had been removed the Council were complicating matters by asking for this to be done .  Crazy because it just confuses the whole issue.  If post codes did not come into play I just wonder then how Hearts answered that requirement in their application to the Council.  Maybe they just ignored it?

 

Clubs have to prove they have considered the potential impact on the local area in terms of a Covid-19 outbreak, as well as pressures on public transport and businesses, and whether lots of people are likely to be travelling from elsewhere in the country to the event.

It’s a fair point but Rangers had 22k at Ibrox which isn’t any easier to get into and away from, depends on the council. Hibs play Killie in the cup on Sunday 15th, let’s see what the council comes up with as ER is pretty similar to us in getting to and away from. 

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The Old Tolbooth
1 hour ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Theres never been common sense,for the cup games I had to sit 3 seats away from my son who lives in my house!!!and sat beside me in the 45 minute drive to the ground!

 

That's just absolutely batshit mental mate, it's actually against the own rules of the government and I'd have refused to do that point blank, and the new rules today where it means you can have a couple of thousand people inside a nightclub getting wrecked with little to no ventilation, but you can't have more than 5K at a football game outdoors without permission, is utterly bonkers! 

 

It actually pains me to think that someone is being paid to think of this shit! 

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50 minutes ago, lou said:

I live in Fife and was successful for Inverness and Celtic

 

And why not.... there are no restrictions on travel! 

 

You know that little event called the Edinburgh Festival that causes mayhem by putting pressure on public transport and businesses, and to which lots of people will be travelling from elsewhere in the country? Well it starts in a few days. It will be quieter than normal (thankfully and hopefully), but it still remains a major tourist attraction, it has the all clear, and obviously the whole point about tourism is that people travel from elsewhere.

 

As for a comparatively much smaller number of people from outside Edinburgh visiting for the afternoon to sit outside for a couple of hours and watch a football match.....well that will need to be looked at very carefully depending on the numbers. I'm puzzled.

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2 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Did anyone expect the FM to do anything else given her track record and that of her dentist sidekick ?

 

 

It's made up nonsense to try and demonstrate some kind of control she wishes to exude

 

No problem with asking for masks etc but once more logic flies out the window when it comes to sporting events

 

When will people wake up to her and her government looking after their own image and not taking a common sense approach

 

Almost as bad as the district council and their fake concern for the road users and cyclists with the rather stupid barriers placed around the city

 

 

Shed ! 🤔

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Saint Jambo
48 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Yeah but not sure if you read my earlier post.  The club had to apply to Edinburgh Council for the number to get in and they had to prove to them that they considered travel in doing so.  It looks like even though the SG rules about travel restrictions had been removed the Council were complicating matters by asking for this to be done .  Crazy because it just confuses the whole issue.  If post codes did not come into play I just wonder then how Hearts answered that requirement in their application to the Council.  Maybe they just ignored it?

 

Clubs have to prove they have considered the potential impact on the local area in terms of a Covid-19 outbreak, as well as pressures on public transport and businesses, and whether lots of people are likely to be travelling from elsewhere in the country to the event.

 

42 minutes ago, Boab said:

I suspected it will be a shambles and fear it will be.

How could Motherwell prove there would be no potential impact by allowing 2K to come from the East…and that was in Level zero ?

SG have passed the ball here. No surprise. Devious is the word that springs to mind.

 

 

I think the only logic to this is around large number of people travelling from one place to another at the same time and putting particular strain on public transport. So a Hearts home game wouldn't be an issue as the number of people travelling by public transport from any single place would be fairly negligible. I got the train back to Glasgow after the Celtic game and there was no issue getting a table for 4 to myself.

 

It would make some away crowds harder to justify. Had there been 3,500 Celtic fans at the game then the trains back West afterwards would have been busy. For the Hibs v Motherwell game they may actually have been helped by the fact there was a strike on Sunday so no option for Hibs fans to travel by train.

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Shanks said no

Hearts must apply for a full capacity Tynecastle, the only concession we should be willing to make is no away supporters if mixing is truly an issue. 

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1 hour ago, joondalupjambo said:

Yeah I was sure some from outside Edinburgh would have got tickets, guess my question is a bit broader, i.e. out of the circa 5k at the Celtic game how many traveled from further afield?  If one of the criteria for granting attendance figures was for the club to consider the numbers travelling then it would just be interesting to see what the split was on the 5k.  It might be the case that Hearts never even bothered to look at ST holder's post codes.  It just makes the transparency of it all very hard to understand.  

 

Good luck in any future ballots, surely you cannot get three in a row :lol:

 

This is a new issue and is unlikely to have formed part of the assessment, which I imagine will only have considered social distancing within the venue. I could be wrong, of course.

 

There were and are legal no restrictions on movement within the UK, and now that social distancing restrictions have been removed it is free for the club to seek full capacity. Looking at the new issues that have been brought to the table, as for pressures on businesses, is that not a good thing? The shops, and pubs around Tynecastle will welcome the boost of matchday income. As for public transport, I'd imagine the percentage of people attending matches that use public transport will be much smaller than those who travel by car or walk. I may have got this wrong, but this just looks like another box ticking exercise that the club has to go through. 

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7 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

 

I think the only logic to this is around large number of people travelling from one place to another at the same time and putting particular strain on public transport. So a Hearts home game wouldn't be an issue as the number of people travelling by public transport from any single place would be fairly negligible. I got the train back to Glasgow after the Celtic game and there was no issue getting a table for 4 to myself.

 

It would make some away crowds harder to justify. Had there been 3,500 Celtic fans at the game then the trains back West afterwards would have been busy. For the Hibs v Motherwell game they may actually have been helped by the fact there was a strike on Sunday so no option for Hibs fans to travel by train.

That theory will go out the window when one, or both, of the OF get more or less a full house.

Fans coming from all over, including England and NI.

Shambles bringing travel into their reasoning.

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Sydney Devine

Crazy thing is we could have limited numbers in the ground but we could all legally stand on the plaza with no restrictions?  

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I hope they allow full stadium including away fans as it means we get our own seats, if we're allowed all Season ticket holders spread around the stadium that won't be the case. 

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Maybe we should just state we are a Festival attraction............clearly no problem would result from transport pressures or local businesses given the Festival is still on with no restrictions

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2 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Maybe we should just state we are a Festival attraction............clearly no problem would result from transport pressures or local businesses given the Festival is still on with no restrictions

 

Go on then.  Get the fixtures listed on the Fringe website and that will be sorted. :lol:

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3 hours ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

Not sure where this all ends to be honest if the council don’t grant full capacity. There is now no legal requirement for social distancing.

 

In court I’d imagine. We need all season ticket holders and walk-ups at games immediately. Scottish football needs the cash - St.Mirren will miss out in circa £30k because of no away fans this coming weekend. We would probably have about 5,000 walk-ups against Aberdeen. That’s probably about £150-200k of lost revenue. 

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Rocky jamboa

The Scottish government should have made the decision on football attendances, whether that is 100%, 75% or whatever of capacity. They could even have stipulated no away fans, if that's a concern but not sure how you would police that. 

 

I've no confidence in our crappy council giving us what we'd want, whereas guaranteed celtic and rangers will be at full capacity. 

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Jambof3tornado
1 hour ago, Paulp74 said:

The Scottish government should have made the decision on football attendances, whether that is 100%, 75% or whatever of capacity. They could even have stipulated no away fans, if that's a concern but not sure how you would police that. 

 

I've no confidence in our crappy council giving us what we'd want, whereas guaranteed celtic and rangers will be at full capacity. 

I think we could and should go back to scottish government if there are glaring differences in permitted attendances across councils.

 

If its costing us money what options do we have regarding taking council to court for loss of earnings etc etc?

 

What a mess. If only those running our game could act on ALL the clubs behalf to ensure fairness and equality.

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Aberdeen Attendance - ‘full’ capacity confirmed ( updated )

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