Smoked-Glass Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Not sure how this cup works anymore 🥴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 No, Hibs are seeded as we will be for topping group with at least 9 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) Assuming we will beat our 'best pals' we will be seeded anyway. Edited July 21, 2021 by i8hibsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Is it not the best three group winners who are seeded? (plus 5 Euro teams) Having 12 points doesn't (yet) guarantee being one of the best three - it may go down to goal difference. So I think theoretically we could still draw Hibs in the last 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseyjambo Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 The 5 European qualifiers are all seeded plus 3 of the group winners. Potentially 5 of the group winners can finish on 12 points (us, Dundee, DUFC, Motherwell, St Mirren) I’m not sure if it goes to goal difference at that point or ranking. 3 of those teams if they ended up on same points as us have a higher rank so we would be unseeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnunb Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, merseyjambo said: The 5 European qualifiers are all seeded plus 3 of the group winners. Potentially 5 of the group winners can finish on 12 points (us, Dundee, DUFC, Motherwell, St Mirren) I’m not sure if it goes to goal difference at that point or ranking. 3 of those teams if they ended up on same points as us have a higher rank so we would be unseeded. Raith can also get 12 points. Play Livi tonight though. Edited July 21, 2021 by neilnunb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyk Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, merseyjambo said: The 5 European qualifiers are all seeded plus 3 of the group winners. Potentially 5 of the group winners can finish on 12 points (us, Dundee, DUFC, Motherwell, St Mirren) I’m not sure if it goes to goal difference at that point or ranking. 3 of those teams if they ended up on same points as us have a higher rank so we would be unseeded. Sorry if I am being a bit think here, but what do you mean by 'ranking'. Why would these other 3 teams outrank us? We were all the 'top' names out of the hat in each of the leagues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyk Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, sandyk said: Sorry if I am being a bit thick here, but what do you mean by 'ranking'. Why would these other 3 teams outrank us? We were all the 'top' names out of the hat in each of the leagues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, sandyk said: Sorry if I am being a bit think here, but what do you mean by 'ranking'. Why would these other 3 teams outrank us? We were all the 'top' names out of the hat in each of the leagues Ranks in league order from finishing positions last season we will be 13th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnunb Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Group matches Clubs are awarded the usual three points for a win but all drawn games in the group stage go straight to penalties - the shoot-out winners receive a bonus point. ie three points for a win, two points for a shoot-out win and one point for losing on penalties. If clubs are level on points at the end of the group stage, the criteria for separating them is 1) goal difference, 2) goals scored, 3) away goals scored, 4) matches won, 5) away matches won, 6) drawing of lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyk Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said: Ranks in league order from finishing positions last season we will be 13th But that would be for a different competition? We were 'equal' as far as being in the same 'pot'. edit: Just seen post below which confirms what will happen, but is that not just within the groups? Edited July 21, 2021 by sandyk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, sandyk said: But that would be for a different competition? We were 'equal' as far as being in the same 'pot'. True, i could be wrong but thats my understanding of it. Its Scotland nothing makes sense 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyk Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said: True, i could be wrong but thats my understanding of it. Its Scotland nothing makes sense 😅 Designed to confuse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 I try so hard to be positive but we are such a bunch of ****ing losers nowadays. Currently on JKB page 1 of the Terrace we have: · Another ICT love in thread · A thread celebrating an unbeaten run of games v utter diddies · A thread discussing Scottish Clubs in Europe (not us) · A thread about how happy we are with our ‘Squad Transformation’ · A 41 pager on Hearts women’s team · And this one, going through possible scenarios we can be seeded for the last 16 of the Scottish League Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Fortunately it doesn't look like Alloa or Brora Rangers are going to be in the draw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy2 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 The 5 teams in Europe are automatically seeded so the 3 best group winners will also be seeded in the last 16 draw based on their 4 game record. Dundee Utd have secured top with 12pts and a +8 GD. A 2 goal win will put us on 12pts with a +9 GD so we’d finish “above” Dundee Utd. Raith, Dundee, Motherwell and St Mirren all have 100% records so every chance it will go down to goal difference. Raith have a toughie at Livi tonight and Motherwell’s goal difference is only +2 just now (away to Airdrie tonight). We have a huge (unfair) advantage as we’ll know exactly what we need to do to be seeded as we’re the last game of the round. Short answer to OP is yes, at the moment we can still draw Hibs. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 We've done better in recent years not being seeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnunb Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Draw is right after our game on Sunday btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy2 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: We've done better in recent years not being seeded. Bang on. In fact, I think last season is the only time we’ve been seeded? 2016 - In Europe 2017 - Knocked out under Cathro. 2018 - Unseeded after illegally playing Andy Irving at Cove. 2019 - Unseeded after losing on pens to East Fife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: I try so hard to be positive It's your standout quality 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jambo Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: I try so hard to be positive but we are such a bunch of ****ing losers nowadays. Currently on JKB page 1 of the Terrace we have: · Another ICT love in thread · A thread celebrating an unbeaten run of games v utter diddies · A thread discussing Scottish Clubs in Europe (not us) · A thread about how happy we are with our ‘Squad Transformation’ · A 41 pager on Hearts women’s team · And this one, going through possible scenarios we can be seeded for the last 16 of the Scottish League Cup Which thread is the ICT love in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS98 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: I try so hard to be positive but we are such a bunch of ****ing losers nowadays. Currently on JKB page 1 of the Terrace we have: · Another ICT love in thread · A thread celebrating an unbeaten run of games v utter diddies · A thread discussing Scottish Clubs in Europe (not us) · A thread about how happy we are with our ‘Squad Transformation’ · A 41 pager on Hearts women’s team · And this one, going through possible scenarios we can be seeded for the last 16 of the Scottish League Cup Serious question i8. Is this all a cry for help? Do you need a cuddle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said: Bang on. In fact, I think last season is the only time we’ve been seeded? 2016 - In Europe 2017 - Knocked out under Cathro. 2018 - Unseeded after illegally playing Andy Irving at Cove. 2019 - Unseeded after losing on pens to East Fife! We'd have been seeded in 2016 then also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said: Bang on. In fact, I think last season is the only time we’ve been seeded? 2016 - In Europe 2017 - Knocked out under Cathro. 2018 - Unseeded after illegally playing Andy Irving at Cove. 2019 - Unseeded after losing on pens to East Fife! Holy shit that is grim reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, DS98 said: Serious question i8. Is this all a cry for help? Do you need a cuddle? Depends, would you dress up for me too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Interesting (or perhaps not!) that both Dundee and St Mirren could benefit from +3 goals from walkover matches due to Covid as part of the calculation for the 3 best group winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy2 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said: We'd have been seeded in 2016 then also. Haha, of course we would. D’oh! 🤦♂️ I just had a mental block and was discussing our qualification from groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said: Raith, Dundee, Motherwell and St Mirren all have 100% records so every chance it will go down to goal difference. Yes, although there's a chance 3 of them could lose their 100% records tonight - which would mean we'd definitely be seeded with any kind of win over ICT. As you say Raith have a tough one at Livi, while Dundee and Motherwell are away from home (Montrose and Airdrie respectively). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 We need to win this cup eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said: Haha, of course we would. D’oh! 🤦♂️ I just had a mental block and was discussing our qualification from groups. I could tell you knew what you talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tackle Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 42 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: I try so hard to be positive but we are such a bunch of ****ing losers nowadays. Currently on JKB page 1 of the Terrace we have: · Another ICT love in thread · A thread celebrating an unbeaten run of games v utter diddies · A thread discussing Scottish Clubs in Europe (not us) · A thread about how happy we are with our ‘Squad Transformation’ · A 41 pager on Hearts women’s team · And this one, going through possible scenarios we can be seeded for the last 16 of the Scottish League Cup Start a "winners" thread then you torn faced disaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brux Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: I try so hard to be positive but we are such a bunch of ****ing losers nowadays. Currently on JKB page 1 of the Terrace we have: · Another ICT love in thread · A thread celebrating an unbeaten run of games v utter diddies · A thread discussing Scottish Clubs in Europe (not us) · A thread about how happy we are with our ‘Squad Transformation’ · A 41 pager on Hearts women’s team · And this one, going through possible scenarios we can be seeded for the last 16 of the Scottish League Cup Have you not commented on every single one of these "loser" threads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Only 3 seeded places 6 teams still in hunt, Hearts Dundee Dundee United Raith Motherwell and St Mirren. 12 points and plus 8 quite possibly not enough. We play last we have a big advantage knowing exactly what we need to do. Big shout out to the sponsors. Should we be 4th best group winners or worse, we could play any of the European qualifiers or the best 3 group winners. In summary a lot of water to go under the bridge but we may need 2 or 3 goals on Sunday, favourable fixtures for Dundee and Motherwell, also St Mirren. Need 2 to go past Dundee United, they have scored more goals currently, no idea how they break the tie if we won 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said: Need 2 to go past Dundee United, they have scored more goals currently, no idea how they break the tie if we won 2 1 As posted above: If clubs are level on points at the end of the group stage, the criteria for separating them is 1) goal difference, 2) goals scored, 3) away goals scored, 4) matches won, 5) away matches won, 6) drawing of lots. So we'd be ahead of United with a 2-1 win against ICT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said: When we get them it will be the usual diamond cutter up the Jimmy Carter so hope we get them at some stage. That’s the very spirit, J. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said: As posted above: If clubs are level on points at the end of the group stage, the criteria for separating them is 1) goal difference, 2) goals scored, 3) away goals scored, 4) matches won, 5) away matches won, 6) drawing of lots. So we'd be ahead of United with a 2-1 win against ICT. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 I'd have been happy to draw Hibs in the next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wentworth jambo Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sir Gio said: Only 3 seeded places 6 teams still in hunt, Hearts Dundee Dundee United Raith Motherwell and St Mirren. 12 points and plus 8 quite possibly not enough. We play last we have a big advantage knowing exactly what we need to do. Big shout out to the sponsors. Should we be 4th best group winners or worse, we could play any of the European qualifiers or the best 3 group winners. In summary a lot of water to go under the bridge but we may need 2 or 3 goals on Sunday, favourable fixtures for Dundee and Motherwell, also St Mirren. Need 2 to go past Dundee United, they have scored more goals currently, no idea how they break the tie if we won 2 1 Ignore - was talking rubbish !! Edited July 21, 2021 by wentworth jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, wentworth jambo said: but point still stands, seeding could be guaranteed tonight Only if all 3 of Dundee, Motherwell and Raith fail to win tonight. 👍 (assuming we win on Sunday, obvs) Edited July 21, 2021 by Hackney Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Camazzola Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, i8hibsh said: I try so hard to be positive but we are such a bunch of ****ing losers nowadays. Currently on JKB page 1 of the Terrace we have: · Another ICT love in thread · A thread celebrating an unbeaten run of games v utter diddies · A thread discussing Scottish Clubs in Europe (not us) · A thread about how happy we are with our ‘Squad Transformation’ · A 41 pager on Hearts women’s team · And this one, going through possible scenarios we can be seeded for the last 16 of the Scottish League Cup I don't get the gripe with this? The girls don't have the profile of their male counterparts but the strides they've made in their game in a short time is impressive. The club cannot be criticised for the backing they are giving to this department. The club has been able to attract an ambitious and highly regarded coach which could lead to a different type of player coming to Hearts. In a short period of time, attendances for the Ladies team could reach figures that were unimaginable not so long ago. It could (and should) encourage a new generation to get into the game. Also, a lot of attendees may enjoy the match day experience as it won't be clouded in negativity and will be seen as an affordable option for taking a family. Apologies to the OP for continuing with the off-topic subject. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy2 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, wentworth jambo said: Unless I'm misunderstanding it - both us and Dundee Utd can't both be in the mix for a best 3rd place spot - Utd have played their 4 games and got 12 points and a GD of +7...we've played 3 games, 9 points and a GD of +7. Does that not mean that any win for us in the final game gives us a better record than Utd so we effectively only need to worry about Raith, Motherwell and St Liedown - Raith / Motherwell could rule themselves out by not winning tonight - so seeding could be guaranteed tonight. Edit - just seen Utd's GD is +8 but point still stands, seeding could be guaranteed tonight United are 9:1. We need to score twice on Sunday to overtake them as we’re 7:0 at the moment. Seeding can’t be guaranteed tonight although we could know that “all” we have to do is win on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tackle Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said: I don't get the gripe with this? The girls don't have the profile of their male counterparts but the strides they've made in their game in a short time is impressive. The club cannot be criticised for the backing they are giving to this department. The club has been able to attract an ambitious and highly regarded coach which could lead to a different type of player coming to Hearts. In a short period of time, attendances for the Ladies team could reach figures that were unimaginable not so long ago. It could (and should) encourage a new generation to get into the game. Also, a lot of attendees may enjoy the match day experience as it won't be clouded in negativity and will be seen as an affordable option for taking a family. Apologies to the OP for continuing with the off-topic subject. 👍 He believes that women shouldn't play football and concern themselves with unicorns and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, The Tackle said: He believes that women shouldn't play football and concern themselves with unicorns and the like. I love women playing football. They have as much right to do do as men. I just accept that even at their highest level the standard is diabolical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 How can it be fair to count goals when some teams have been 'awarded 3-0 wins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 hours ago, neilnunb said: Group matches Clubs are awarded the usual three points for a win but all drawn games in the group stage go straight to penalties - the shoot-out winners receive a bonus point. ie three points for a win, two points for a shoot-out win and one point for losing on penalties. If clubs are level on points at the end of the group stage, the criteria for separating them is 1) goal difference, 2) goals scored, 3) away goals scored, 4) matches won, 5) away matches won, 6) drawing of lots. 7- vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, RENE said: How can it be fair to count goals when some teams have been 'awarded 3-0 wins? Luck of the draw. 🥸 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) At the end of the day we have played 4 and a half hours of football versus 2 Scottish tier 3 sides and a tier 4 side and we have only scored 7 goals. All part timers. Edited July 21, 2021 by i8hibsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: At the end of the day we have played 4 and a half hours of football versus 2 Scottish tier 3 sides and a tier 4 side and we have only scored 7 goals. All part timers. Like your 'support'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wentworth jambo Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: At the end of the day we have played 4 and a half hours of football versus 2 Scottish tier 3 sides and a tier 4 side and we have only scored 7 goals. All part timers. While not perfect, if you can’t see progress from last season then you want to get to Specsavers - we could all pick individual stats to illustrate our argument - but some, like you, aren’t happy unless they’re unhappy. Edited July 21, 2021 by wentworth jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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