Life Imprisonment

[Cade]

Politicians have little say in the length of sentencing, other than setting maximum limits for each crime.

The length of the sentence itself is down to the Judiciary, which is independent of politics.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

The length of the sentence itself is down to the Judiciary, which is independent of politics.

 

 

Not for much longer.

[Der Kaiser]

Prison just doesn't appear much of a deterrent for a lot of serious crimes. Ultimately some crimes will always happen due to folk having horrid lack of morals, violent personalities, disturbed ideas and principles etc etc but I can't help but think that lengthier sentences would at the very least make some folk question themselves and in a lot of instances affect their possible actions.

 

I know this leads into wider debate about social services, their funding, policing and a whole host of other matters but changing the punishment for crimes does from the outside seem a relatively easy and quick fix...

.........fix probably isn't the right word but you hopefully get what I mean.

 

Murder, Rape and Child Neglect IMHO should be crimes that see your freedom just evaporate for a very very long time. But you can actually do more time for an armed robbery with no shots fired?

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Der Kaiser

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, JWL said:

 

Was it not Kenny McAskill that was Justice Minister or something around that time and there was a raft of lenient sentences being dished out. Utter prick of a man.

He was a disgrace as Justice minister . Remember he released the Lockerbie bomber on compassionate grounds ! He had also attempted to get rid of corroboration aspect of convictions ( a  vital safeguard for possibly innocent people ) and wanted shot of the “

not proven “ Verdict . 

[1971fozzy]

On 19/07/2021 at 17:38, Maroon Sailor said:

Jamie Bulger's killers should never have been released either

 

What they did to that wee boy is incomprehensible not to mention totally sickening and they knew what they were doing.

 

 

 

 

agree 100% they should have been locked up and never released. Makes me sick they are free , living a life paid for by taxpayers.

Did one of them not get done for child porn as well ? 
you know what’s also sickening is that some poor woman (or man) may end up with them and never know they murdered a child.

they were and always will be the scum of the earth

[luckyBatistuta]

7 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Paul Kersey had the right idea.

Had to google the name and was shocked I didn’t remember it was him. Great movies and he definitely had the right idea

[luckyBatistuta]

6 hours ago, JWL said:

 

Was it not Kenny McAskill that was Justice Minister or something around that time and there was a raft of lenient sentences being dished out. Utter prick of a man.

He was in office around then, an erse.

[Tynieman]

4 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

Prison just doesn't appear much of a deterrent for a lot of serious crimes. Ultimately some crimes will always happen due to folk having horrid lack of morals, violent personalities, disturbed ideas and principles etc etc but I can't help but think that lengthier sentences would at the very least make some folk question themselves and in a lot of instances affect their possible actions.

 

I know this leads into wider debate about social services, their funding, policing and a whole host of other matters but changing the punishment for crimes does from the outside seem a relatively easy and quick fix...

.........fix probably isn't the right word but you hopefully get what I mean.

 

Murder, Rape and Child Neglect IMHO should be crimes that see your freedom just evaporate for a very very long time. But you can actually do more time for an armed robbery with no shots fired?

 

 

 

 

Because that’s worked well in the US

[Tynieman]

3 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

agree 100% they should have been locked up and never released. Makes me sick they are free , living a life paid for by taxpayers.

Did one of them not get done for child porn as well ? 
you know what’s also sickening is that some poor woman (or man) may end up with them and never know they murdered a child.

they were and always will be the scum of the earth

 

They have to confirm their identity to any partners they have.

 

Their crime was definitely disgusting, horrible and downright evil.

 

But lock up two 10 year olds for life? 

 

I am NOT defending them btw - however, one has thus far not been in any trouble at all since being out.

 

This goes deeper - poverty, abuse, absence of parenting and a complete lacking in social services all contribute to these children doing what they did.

[1971fozzy]

12 minutes ago, Tynieman said:

 

They have to confirm their identity to any partners they have.

 

Their crime was definitely disgusting, horrible and downright evil.

 

But lock up two 10 year olds for life? 

 

I am NOT defending them btw - however, one has thus far not been in any trouble at all since being out.

 

This goes deeper - poverty, abuse, absence of parenting and a complete lacking in social services all contribute to these children doing what they did.

your first point - do they ? Blow their identity wide open then ? Are you sure ?  Have they not already had to have new identities given again due to leaks ? 
 

I get the fact they had awful upbringings I really do, but to do what they did at an age they were was just wrong on every count. 
 

one of them attended Everton game(s) in breach of their release terms. As well as the child porn it makes you think (well me) this person does not care about his restrictions and b) is most certainly a threat.

 

got to ask the question, would you be ok if either were living next door to you ? 

Edited August 8, 2021 by 1971fozzy

[Tynieman]

21 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

your first point - do they ? Blow their identity wide open then ? Are you sure ?  Have they not already had to have new identities given again due to leaks ? 
 

I get the fact they had awful upbringings I really do, but to do what they did at an age they were was just wrong on every count. 
 

one of them attended Everton game(s) in breach of their release terms. As well as the child porn it makes you think (well me) this person does not care about his restrictions and b) is most certainly a threat.

 

got to ask the question, would you be ok if either were living next door to you ? 

 

One has (Venables), but Thomson hasn’t. They are 100% required to inform anybody they’re in a relationship with of their past, it’s part of their license.

 

I agree with you what they did was horrible (term doesn’t seem strong enough), but they were 10 year olds from really bad backgrounds. Locking them up for life at that time, no matter of progress in terms of rehabilitation etc, isn’t right.

 

In terms of Venables - I don’t have any symphony for at all, you’re right he should be locked up for a very long time now. Anyone viewing that material is indeed a threat as you’ve said.

 

In terms of your last point - I do believe in second chances, and therefore, would be hypocritical of me if I was of the stance that I’d not allow someone to live next door to me who committed a disgusting act when they were 10 years old.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Tynieman

[FoH forever]

16 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

your first point - do they ? Blow their identity wide open then ? Are you sure ?  Have they not already had to have new identities given again due to leaks ? 
 

I get the fact they had awful upbringings I really do, but to do what they did at an age they were was just wrong on every count. 
 

one of them attended Everton game(s) in breach of their release terms. As well as the child porn it makes you think (well me) this person does not care about his restrictions and b) is most certainly a threat.

 

got to ask the question, would you be ok if either were living next door to you ? 

Even more ironic, is if any of us reveal their identity, we would be guilty of a crime! Judge put order into effect at the trial. 

 

One of them has kept a low profile, the other has had to be given at least two different identies after being caught with images of kids a few times...yet is still out and about today. 

 

The sentences being given out in the last 5-10 years are ridiculous, think there was a fireman caught with loads of images/preying on kids and only got a few years. 

 

Most are out after half-two thirds of the time they're supposed to be in for and if they're in a small community, their presence isn't revealed on the register because the risk to them, can't make this stuff up! 

 

 

[Der Kaiser]

43 minutes ago, Tynieman said:

 

Because that’s worked well in the US

 

Comparing us with the USA in terms of crime, sentencing?.......I dont know where to begin to show how vastly different we are.

[1971fozzy]

1 hour ago, Tynieman said:

 

One has (Venables), but Thomson hasn’t. They are 100% required to inform anybody they’re in a relationship with of their past, it’s part of their license.

 

I agree with you what they did was horrible (term doesn’t seem strong enough), but they were 10 year olds from really bad backgrounds. Locking them up for life at that time, no matter of progress in terms of rehabilitation etc, isn’t right.

 

In terms of Venables - I don’t have any symphony for at all, you’re right he should be locked up for a very long time now. Anyone viewing that material is indeed a threat as you’ve said.

 

In terms of your last point - I do believe in second chances, and therefore, would be hypocritical of me if I was of the stance that I’d not allow someone to live next door to me who committed a disgusting act when they were 10 years old.

Appreciate your reply 👍 

[Tynieman]

1 hour ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

Comparing us with the USA in terms of crime, sentencing?.......I dont know where to begin to show how vastly different we are.

 

Yeah, that’s my point though.

 

in the 80’s - the USA took the “tough on crime” stance. It’s proven not to be a deterrence (crime rates have actually increased), but now they lock up most of their citizens then ANYWHERE in the world.

 

The solution is tackling poverty, education and opportunities (including that to be rehabilitated).

Edited August 9, 2021 by Tynieman

[Tynieman]

18 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Appreciate your reply 👍 

 

👍

[JFK-1]

I will offer some comment from the basis of being someone who grew up with a number of future murderers. And I I knew most who were murdered too. Among the killers I grew up alongside were a family of 4 brothers, 3 of whom went on to kill.

I was at secondary school with a guy who went on to murder 3 people over two seperate incidents decades apart. In 1991 he murdered two women during an attack in a flat in Falkirk, for which he was jailed for 'life'.

Twenty years later in 2001 he absconded while on the first day of a 'training for freedom' program. While on the run for some months he battered a big issue seller to death with a golf club and took his identity to sell big issues.

This guy was an obvious psychopath from schooldays. A wanna be tough guy, but couldn't fight well. So was noted for bullying the weakest of the weak. Including those from younger years.

Demonstrated extreme disruptive and violent behaviour towards teachers, but they can't fight back all out and especially so the women teachers. In general the likes of him should just be put down. But another side of me says no we can't do that. In case just one innocent suffers.

This is a link to a BBC report on his second sentencing for murder. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3278253.stm

[Ribble]

I find it hard to believe that once someone has served a long sentence, say 20 years, that they haven't become totally accustomed to life inside a prison so if they are then released what is there to discourage them from committing further crimes? In fact many will be so accustomed to life inside that the outside world is so overwhelming that they will commit a crime just to get back inside!

[Der Kaiser]

7 hours ago, Tynieman said:

 

Yeah, that’s my point though.

 

in the 80’s - the USA took the “tough on crime” stance. It’s proven not to be a deterrence (crime rates have actually increased), but now they lock up most of their citizens then ANYWHERE in the world.

 

The solution is tackling poverty, education and opportunities (including that to be rehabilitated).

 

This is always the solution....hence my quick fix comment. (And also its areas of life where I believe we do better than the USA)

 

The culture of crime in the states is very different than here and I don't believe we would see a repeat of the outcome they experienced. We don't have guns, we don't have an underlying problem of Institutional racism to the degree they have to name just two.

 

The reasons behind crime are more intricate than just putting folk inside for longer as we both allude to but I believe tougher sentencing would strengthen the deterrent....and if it was just a little it'd still be worth it. 

 

In my eyes, if you commit a heinous crime then you don't get to participate in a normal life with the rest of us. Some rapists have done less than 4 years despite the life sentence they inflict on their victim. They should be thankful at getting a modicum of human rights in prison of a warm room, food, water and a flushing toilet. And I say that even if we were able to 100% rehabilitate offenders. Punishment should fit the crime.

 

I love a good discussion but this is one area where I reckon I'll never be swayed. I don't want to hear of 12 years in prison for murdering a child with "I recognise what I did was wrong" stories on release. These folk can **** off and rot.

[neilnunb]

Well that's Pitchfork been released.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

31 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

Well that's Pitchfork been released.

 

 

He’s cured.

[Tynieman]

On 09/08/2021 at 04:35, JFK-1 said:

I will offer some comment from the basis of being someone who grew up with a number of future murderers. And I I knew most who were murdered too. Among the killers I grew up alongside were a family of 4 brothers, 3 of whom went on to kill.

I was at secondary school with a guy who went on to murder 3 people over two seperate incidents decades apart. In 1991 he murdered two women during an attack in a flat in Falkirk, for which he was jailed for 'life'.

Twenty years later in 2001 he absconded while on the first day of a 'training for freedom' program. While on the run for some months he battered a big issue seller to death with a golf club and took his identity to sell big issues.

This guy was an obvious psychopath from schooldays. A wanna be tough guy, but couldn't fight well. So was noted for bullying the weakest of the weak. Including those from younger years.

Demonstrated extreme disruptive and violent behaviour towards teachers, but they can't fight back all out and especially so the women teachers. In general the likes of him should just be put down. But another side of me says no we can't do that. In case just one innocent suffers.

This is a link to a BBC report on his second sentencing for murder. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3278253.stm

 

Jeez, that’s hard to read 

[Tynieman]

On 09/08/2021 at 04:35, JFK-1 said:

I will offer some comment from the basis of being someone who grew up with a number of future murderers. And I I knew most who were murdered too. Among the killers I grew up alongside were a family of 4 brothers, 3 of whom went on to kill.

I was at secondary school with a guy who went on to murder 3 people over two seperate incidents decades apart. In 1991 he murdered two women during an attack in a flat in Falkirk, for which he was jailed for 'life'.

Twenty years later in 2001 he absconded while on the first day of a 'training for freedom' program. While on the run for some months he battered a big issue seller to death with a golf club and took his identity to sell big issues.

This guy was an obvious psychopath from schooldays. A wanna be tough guy, but couldn't fight well. So was noted for bullying the weakest of the weak. Including those from younger years.

Demonstrated extreme disruptive and violent behaviour towards teachers, but they can't fight back all out and especially so the women teachers. In general the likes of him should just be put down. But another side of me says no we can't do that. In case just one innocent suffers.

This is a link to a BBC report on his second sentencing for murder. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3278253.stm

 

Are you Sevco fan btw?

 

I’ve just discovered that you post or their forums too

[Marvin]

On 08/08/2021 at 23:29, luckyBatistuta said:

Had to google the name and was shocked I didn’t remember it was him. Great movies and he definitely had the right idea

 

I liked the Death Wish films. I surprised myself that I recognised his name straight away. 

[Marvin]

On 09/08/2021 at 10:27, Ribble said:

I find it hard to believe that once someone has served a long sentence, say 20 years, that they haven't become totally accustomed to life inside a prison so if they are then released what is there to discourage them from committing further crimes? In fact many will be so accustomed to life inside that the outside world is so overwhelming that they will commit a crime just to get back inside!

 

Imagine coming out of prison to find Boris Johnson is the PM. That's enough to want to be sentenced again.

[luckyBatistuta]

On 09/08/2021 at 10:27, Ribble said:

I find it hard to believe that once someone has served a long sentence, say 20 years, that they haven't become totally accustomed to life inside a prison so if they are then released what is there to discourage them from committing further crimes? In fact many will be so accustomed to life inside that the outside world is so overwhelming that they will commit a crime just to get back inside!

A rapist who’s served 20/30 years and had no sexual interaction with the opposite sex during that time inside, then released back into society...what could possibly go wrong.   Now we spend fortunes monitoring his movements for the rest of his days...why? I thought he was a reformed character and ticked all the boxes. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

A rapist who’s served 20/30 years and had no sexual interaction with the opposite sex during that time inside, then released back into society...what could possibly go wrong.   Now we spend fortunes monitoring his movements for the rest of his days...why? I thought he was a reformed character and ticked all the boxes. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

On 09/08/2021 at 01:56, JWL said:

 

Was it not Kenny McAskill that was Justice Minister or something around that time and there was a raft of lenient sentences being dished out. Utter prick of a man.

The SNP were first elected in 2007, I think it was Cathy Jamieson, under Jack McConnell at the time. Could be wrong though...

Edited September 2, 2021 by A Boy Named Crow

[Tynieman]

Just to make a point - Norway has just a 16% of reoffenders. Their prisons are mainly designed to rehabilitate.

 

As I’ve said in my previous post, poverty, abuse and addiction are mainly what cause people to commit crime

[Auldbenches]

18 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

A rapist who’s served 20/30 years and had no sexual interaction with the opposite sex during that time inside, then released back into society...what could possibly go wrong.   Now we spend fortunes monitoring his movements for the rest of his days...why? I thought he was a reformed character and ticked all the boxes. 

That's a very good point about having to constantly monitor them when they are released.  If they need to be monitored then maybe they aren't ready for release.  

Does life not mean life as incentives are needed to help them behave in prison?  

It feels like the prison system is being held to ransom by evil *******s. 

[JimmyCant]

On 08/08/2021 at 19:58, JamesM48 said:

He was a disgrace as Justice minister . Remember he released the Lockerbie bomber on compassionate grounds ! He had also attempted to get rid of corroboration aspect of convictions ( a  vital safeguard for possibly innocent people ) and wanted shot of the “

not proven “ Verdict . 

A man who was subsequently shown to be innocent of all charges. Nothing more than a scapegoat put up by scurrilous terrorist states and accepted by even more scurrilous western intelligence services as it closed a can of worms no one wanted to open. Christ even the families of the victims knew he didn’t do it and appealed on his behalf

Edited September 2, 2021 by JimmyCant

[The Real Maroonblood]

38 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

A man who was subsequently shown to be innocent of all charges. Nothing more than a scapegoat put up by scurrilous terrorist states and accepted by even more scurrilous western intelligence services as it closed a can of worms no one wanted to open. Christ even the families of the victims knew he didn’t do it and appealed on his behalf

[Ked]

On 01/09/2021 at 14:05, neilnunb said:

Well that's Pitchfork been released.

 

 

Rape and murder two schoolchildren .

Imo a decent well balanced society should see no release and any remorse or rehabilitation should be only for the comfort of the offender.

Such a crime should see imo again a ten year sentence followed by the death penalty.

There is no benefit to anyone other than to the beast himself for parole.

I can only imagine the devastation his evil crime left .

Piece of shit is all he is.

[Cade]

You could try writing to the Home Secretary.

Ask her to spend a little less time deporting brown people and banning peaceful protests and a little more time blocking the release of dangerous criminals.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, Tynieman said:

Just to make a point - Norway has just a 16% of reoffenders. Their prisons are mainly designed to rehabilitate.

 

As I’ve said in my previous post, poverty, abuse and addiction are mainly what cause people to commit crime

That’s all very well and true regarding poverty , abuse and addiction being precursors to crime  but believe me peoples perspective about illiberal sentencing and rehabilitation can completely be turned upside down if they know someone either a friend have had a family member murdered . You never really get over it . 

[JackLadd]

So Pitchfork gets out after 33 but Ian Huntley for the essentially the same crime got a 40 minimum tariff. Both would be on life plus a 1000 years in good old US of A. 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

You could try writing to the Home Secretary.

Ask her to spend a little less time deporting brown people and banning peaceful protests and a little more time blocking the release of dangerous criminals.

I doubt my letter would make any difference to the politically motivated actions of the home secretary.

And I doubt my opinion makes any difference at al.

 

[Drew Wallace]

Well Well

 

Double child killer Colin Pitchfork sent back to prison - BBC News

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Drew Wallace said:

Well Well

 

Double child killer Colin Pitchfork sent back to prison - BBC News

It’ll be interesting what he was recalled for.

[Longbaws]

Hanging about in a park and living 200m from a school. 

 

Is there not an island we can't put these people on?

[ArcticJambo]

Playing the game by the looks of it, surprised it took two months though. Must have been on him like a hawk, or at the very least should have been.