Life Imprisonment

[Der Kaiser]

I've never really understood why the term life imprisonment doesn't actually mean that in a long list of horrific crimes.

 

Take the Colin Pitchfork case which has been in the news again. Rapes and kills two 15 yr old girls. Parole board grants him his freedom 33 years later under strict conditions. Been a model prisoner supposedly.

 

Why should this man be allowed to return to something near a normal life? I simply can't comprehend this. 

[Mars plastic]

Think there's only around 50 odd folk in prison in the UK on an entire life term. Dale Creggan is certainly one of them. 

[Mars plastic]

Some interesting characters on this list...

 

List of prisoners with whole-life orders - Wikipedia

[Cade]

Because we have a rehabilitative prison system in the UK.

It's supposed to let you serve your time, learn a lesson then be released as a reformed citizen.

Whole life sentences are possible but rare and only used for the very worst crimes.

The Home Secretary can block release on certain conditions too (which politicises the system and is wrong but that's how it goes).

Even after release many convicts have restrictions on where they can go, what they can do and have to regularly check in at their local nick.

[Dazo]

11 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

I've never really understood why the term life imprisonment doesn't actually mean that in a long list of horrific crimes.

 

Take the Colin Pitchfork case which has been in the news again. Rapes and kills two 15 yr old girls. Parole board grants him his freedom 33 years later under strict conditions. Been a model prisoner supposedly.

 

Why should this man be allowed to return to something near a normal life? I simply can't comprehend this. 

I don’t understand it either and the example you mention isn’t something you can learn or be rehabilitated from. Those kind of crimes aren’t mistakes so you deserve to to imprisoned for the rest of your live at best, I’d kill them personally.   

[JackLadd]

Criminal justice is a joke in this country and the likes of Pitchfork exemplify this. The HR lawyer gravy train is a very profitable industry and we all foot the bill every day. 

[Sharpie]

I have had an interesting life, went through all the age groups, youth, middle age, old age, and as people right here well know that has engendered for me a lot of memories. I cannot imagine being incarcerated for thirty three years, although living in an organized formal lifestyle for that long could be o.k. To come out after more than a quarter of a century, and see what memories may have been gathered in a normal life must have some negative impact even on the worst of individuals, ie what have I missed. Freedoms are easily accepted and not totally by us all appreciated, but loss of them really when it happens impacts. 

Horrible crime must be paid for, I am in the life should be life group, it should also not be one of ease and comfort, the victims of crime are a terrible thing to see, the shock and agony of death, the sorrows it causes, but there is also the thought that we the punishers not look for the same results, we are supposed to be better than that.

[JudyJudyJudy]

41 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I don’t understand it either and the example you mention isn’t something you can learn or be rehabilitated from. Those kind of crimes aren’t mistakes so you deserve to to imprisoned for the rest of your live at best, I’d kill them personally.   

 

25 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Criminal justice is a joke in this country and the likes of Pitchfork exemplify this. The HR lawyer gravy train is a very profitable industry and we all foot the bill every day. 

Those advocating rehabilitation etc and people serving their sentence really to have think about what it might be like to have a loved one murdered . It’s a shattering experience for the while family and friends . Nothing brings them back but a convicted murderer can be out in as little as 10 years in Scotland less if manslaughter . I don’t believe in the death penalty but life should be life 

[Ron Burgundy]

If you deliberately take someone's life you should not be allowed out again IMO.

 

Unless the victims relatives agree to it. If they are of the forgiving sort.

[i8hibsh]

If that vile piece of excrmenet Pitchfork kills again then the blood is on the hands of all those who were involved in his release.

 

You can't rehabiliate scum like this.

[CostaJambo]

15 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

If that vile piece of excrmenet Pitchfork kills again then the blood is on the hands of all those who were involved in his release.

 

You can't rehabiliate scum like this.

Doesn't even have to go on the register according to some press coverage. Beggars belief that.

[FORTHCLYDE]

Because he was the first ever person caught by DNA it should have been the reason he was kept in prison.

Other criminals would have seen what would happen if they were convicted for heinous crimes.

His case should have been whole life term.

 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

If you deliberately take someone's life you should not be allowed out again IMO.

 

Unless the victims relatives agree to it. If they are of the forgiving sort.

Disagree. Surely it depends on the circumstances. 

 

One example might be,  someone broke into another persons house and the homeowner defending their property killed the burglar, you're suggesting that the homeowner who was a law abiding citizen prior to that, who has possibly committed a murder should never be let out? 

 

For folk like Colin Pitchfork, certainly, that ***** should never be allowed out, he's a danger to society. 

[Darren]

7 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

One example might be,  someone broke into another persons house and the homeowner defending their property killed the burglar, you're suggesting that the homeowner who was a law abiding citizen prior to that, who has possibly committed a murder should never be let out? 

 

They wouldn't be convicted of murder.

[Cruyff]

Just now, Darren said:

 

They wouldn't be convicted of murder.

It might be. 

 

The point is, there are different classifications of murder for a reason, causation, circumstance, recklessness, culpability etc....

 

It is not as black and white as saying, if you kill someone, you go to jail forever. 

 

In some cases, certainly in Colin Pitchforks case, life should almost certainly mean life, in others, perhaps not. 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Those advocating rehabilitation etc and people serving their sentence really to have think about what it might be like to have a loved one murdered . It’s a shattering experience for the while family and friends . Nothing brings them back but a convicted murderer can be out in as little as 10 years in Scotland less if manslaughter . I don’t believe in the death penalty but life should be life 

 

I agree.  

[Maroon Sailor]

Jamie Bulger's killers should never have been released either

 

What they did to that wee boy is incomprehensible not to mention totally sickening and they knew what they were doing.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Maroon Sailor

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

Disagree. Surely it depends on the circumstances. 

 

One example might be,  someone broke into another persons house and the homeowner defending their property killed the burglar, you're suggesting that the homeowner who was a law abiding citizen prior to that, who has possibly committed a murder should never be let out? 

 

For folk like Colin Pitchfork, certainly, that ***** should never be allowed out, he's a danger to society. 

Doesn’t sound like the homeowner intentionally or deliberately set out to kill someone so I doubt they would fit into the post you quoted. 

[EH11_2NL]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

Disagree. Surely it depends on the circumstances. 

 

One example might be,  someone broke into another persons house and the homeowner defending their property killed the burglar, you're suggesting that the homeowner who was a law abiding citizen prior to that, who has possibly committed a murder should never be let out? 

 

For folk like Colin Pitchfork, certainly, that ***** should never be allowed out, he's a danger to society. 

And that's the line that will prevent a murder charge. Justifiable Homicide as long as they are actually defending themselves or other people within the house and there was imminent danger and chance of death.

[Cruyff]

21 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Doesn’t sound like the homeowner intentionally or deliberately set out to kill someone so I doubt they would fit into the post you quoted. 

They did if they used lethal force. 

8 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

And that's the line that will prevent a murder charge. Justifiable Homicide as long as they are actually defending themselves or other people within the house and there was imminent danger and chance of death.

You are missing the point chaps. It's still murder, whether it is classed as first, second degree or manslaughter in the UK or murder or, Culpable Homicide in Scotland, it all falls under murder. The chap I was replying to suggested any deliberate attempt to take another's life should result in a life sentence, clearly we've identified that it depends on the circumstances. 👍

[tightrope]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

Because we have a rehabilitative prison system in the UK.

It's supposed to let you serve your time, learn a lesson then be released as a reformed citizen.

Whole life sentences are possible but rare and only used for the very worst crimes.

The Home Secretary can block release on certain conditions too (which politicises the system and is wrong but that's how it goes).

Even after release many convicts have restrictions on where they can go, what they can do and have to regularly check in at their local nick.

Unfortunately, reality is a lot different to people's perceptions. Very little rehabilitation actually takes place. They may well have to complete a sixteen week programme, one that has never been evaluated for effectiveness, but in reality, a lot of long term prisoners don't even go to work. There is a perception in Scotland that the more heinous your crime, the better you should be treated. (This perception is from a prisoners point of view) However those that are, seem to go along with this, hence prisoners are now called "people in our care" " customers" and any other pc bull that Prison management decide. Prison staff are well up against it, don't believe what you read in the red tops. However, remember, murder is an easy crime to commit, there are different levels obviously but I am sure most of us have hit someone and shouted that you were going to kill them. Not all life term prisoners are evil. However some are.

 

[151]

3 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Jamie Bulger's killers should never have been released either

 

What they did to that wee boy is incomprehensible not to mention totally sickening and they knew what they were doing.

 

 

 

 

 

The most horrendous of crimes. Unimaginable how he would have felt.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 hours ago, FORTHCLYDE said:

Because he was the first ever person caught by DNA it should have been the reason he was kept in prison.

Other criminals would have seen what would happen if they were convicted for heinous crimes.

His case should have been whole life term.

 

There was a programme called "Code of a Killer" based on Alec Jefferies who pioneered DNA.

It starred John Simm and David Threlfell. 

Look out for it.

An excellent drama.

[Ron Burgundy]

15 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Disagree. Surely it depends on the circumstances. 

 

One example might be,  someone broke into another persons house and the homeowner defending their property killed the burglar, you're suggesting that the homeowner who was a law abiding citizen prior to that, who has possibly committed a murder should never be let out? 

 

For folk like Colin Pitchfork, certainly, that ***** should never be allowed out, he's a danger to society. 

For that of course not. 😆

 

If a murder is premeditated then they should not be allowed out.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Ron Burgundy

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

For that of course not. 😆

 

If a murder is premeditated then they should not be allowed out.

👍

[JackLadd]

We should also be jailing most of these now 430 a day landing in Kent. That's my Daily Mail/GB News view. Doing the current nothing is not working anyway.

[Der Kaiser]

BBC News - Verphy Kudi: Mum left girl to die to party for 6 days
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58102792

 

 

9 years

 

Left her 20 month old daughter alone for 6 days on her own so she could get pished.

 

90 years is what I would have given. The crime already tells us she didn't care one iota so why should she spend the majority of her life free....9 years?!?. Reading this stuff makes me want to advocate torture in prisons.

 

 

[milky_26]

22 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

BBC News - Verphy Kudi: Mum left girl to die to party for 6 days
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58102792

 

 

9 years

 

Left her 20 month old daughter alone for 6 days on her own so she could get pished.

 

90 years is what I would have given. The crime already tells us she didn't care one iota so why should she spend the majority of her life free....9 years?!?. Reading this stuff makes me want to advocate torture in prisons.

 

 

or this one where a "mother" and her boyfriend got 15 and 14 years respectively for killing her 3 year old

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58119754

[Der Kaiser]

7 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

or this one where a "mother" and her boyfriend got 15 and 14 years respectively for killing her 3 year old

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58119754

 

Let's hang these people. Seriously. 

It's cheap and nothing less than they deserve.

 

Or we dress them as animals and use them to train other wild animals such as tigers and bears which have been held in captivity to hunt so they can be released back into the wild. 

[Tazio]

This is the bit in the report that baffles me 

"This follows a history of multiple earlier occasions of abandonment and neglect."

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Der Kaiser said:

BBC News - Verphy Kudi: Mum left girl to die to party for 6 days
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58102792

 

 

9 years

 

Left her 20 month old daughter alone for 6 days on her own so she could get pished.

 

90 years is what I would have given. The crime already tells us she didn't care one iota so why should she spend the majority of her life free....9 years?!?. Reading this stuff makes me want to advocate torture in prisons.

 

 

I wonder if it was the father, if he would have got nine years?

[Irufushi]

1 hour ago, Der Kaiser said:

BBC News - Verphy Kudi: Mum left girl to die to party for 6 days
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58102792

 

 

9 years

 

Left her 20 month old daughter alone for 6 days on her own so she could get pished.

 

90 years is what I would have given. The crime already tells us she didn't care one iota so why should she spend the majority of her life free....9 years?!?. Reading this stuff makes me want to advocate torture in prisons.

 

 

Wish I never read that. Absolutely horrific, that poor child. 

[Dagger Is Back]

There’s another story in Sky about a couple who killed a wee tot because she was interrupting them having sex.

 

It’s absolutely horrific. If we’re not bringing the death penalty back then life without parole for these scumbags

[luckyBatistuta]

Even all these years later I feel sick just thinking about poor Baby P and how he was tortured to death. That was one of the most horrifying crimes I’ve ever read about. None of the scum that played their part in torturing and eventually murdering that poor child received life sentences. The mother only got about 5/6 years and was released early. The partner only got 12 years and he also raped a 2 year old girl. The other piece of shit involved got 6 years. Why are these people even considered to walk the streets again. I would have executed all 3 of them, utter scum.

[luckyBatistuta]

6 hours ago, Irufushi said:

Wish I never read that. Absolutely horrific, that poor child. 

Only 9 years, that’s disgusting, it really is. After letting the child die a slow horrific death, she then tried to cover it up too. How can that sentence fit that crime. There is something seriously wrong with our system, makes me sick.

[Ron Burgundy]

But in todays touchy feely soft as shite namby pamby society we have to consider the rights and the feelings of the people who commit these crimes. They are also victims.

 

 

[milky_26]

4 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Even all these years later I feel sick just thinking about poor Baby P and how he was tortured to death. That was one of the most horrifying crimes I’ve ever read about. None of the scum that played their part in torturing and eventually murdering that poor child received life sentences. The mother only got about 5/6 years and was released early. The partner only got 12 years and he also raped a 2 year old girl. The other piece of shit involved got 6 years. Why are these people even considered to walk the streets again. I would have executed all 3 of them, utter scum.

i've just checked and the mother while released early she breached her parole and at least up to decemeber 2019 is still in jail. the rapist got 10 years for the rape and 12 for the murder, but for some reason he got to serve them concurrently rather than consecutively. 

[Savage Vince]

12 hours ago, milky_26 said:

or this one where a "mother" and her boyfriend got 15 and 14 years respectively for killing her 3 year old

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58119754

 

****ing animals. A horrific case. I know someone has to but imagine defending that in court. 

[superjack]

13 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

BBC News - Verphy Kudi: Mum left girl to die to party for 6 days
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58102792

 

 

9 years

 

Left her 20 month old daughter alone for 6 days on her own so she could get pished.

 

90 years is what I would have given. The crime already tells us she didn't care one iota so why should she spend the majority of her life free....9 years?!?. Reading this stuff makes me want to advocate torture in prisons.

 

 

Read that earlier, what an effing joke. Should be life, or seeing as she'll be out in a few years, sterilise her so she cant have anymore kids. And do it without any anaesthetic. 

[William H. Bonney]

6 separate occasions of child neglect in the 3 months leading up to the death. Once the child was left alone for 2 days. 
A doctor at the trial believes the baby had learned that crying was pointless, hence why nobody heard her. 
An utterly tragic case. 

[Cade]

Makes you wonder if all prospective parents should go through the same vetting process as adoptive parents do.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

On 06/08/2021 at 22:36, Irufushi said:

Wish I never read that. Absolutely horrific, that poor child. 

I couldn’t bare to read it . Evil cow . Hope she Rots in jail 

[Governor Tarkin]

15 hours ago, Cade said:

Makes you wonder if all prospective parents should go through the same vetting process as adoptive parents do.

 

 

 

Sounds like an excellent policy suggestion for the SNP.

[OTT]

On 19/07/2021 at 14:45, JamesM48 said:

 

Those advocating rehabilitation etc and people serving their sentence really to have think about what it might be like to have a loved one murdered . It’s a shattering experience for the while family and friends . Nothing brings them back but a convicted murderer can be out in as little as 10 years in Scotland less if manslaughter . I don’t believe in the death penalty but life should be life 

 

Bit late but I agree. The ridiculousness of the Shawn Woodburn murder really underscored it. Those laddies went out that night to cause bother. They deserved much more to be chucked at them than what they got. Complete and utter insult to a grieving family. Think they're all out again now... it happened in 2017.

[Marvin]

On 19/07/2021 at 17:38, Maroon Sailor said:

Jamie Bulger's killers should never have been released either

 

What they did to that wee boy is incomprehensible not to mention totally sickening and they knew what they were doing.

 

 

 

 

 

Those evil little pricks will have a book deal before too long whilst enjoying life under a new identity.

[luckyBatistuta]

The man behind the Kriss Donald murder was in jail in 1995 for assault. Then in 2003 was sentenced to 30 months for a vicious assault on a woman, but was released early after 15 months. If he hadn’t been released early, he would never have been able to torture and murder Kriss Donald. This was a man with a history of violence, yet he was still allowed to only serve just over half his sentence and free to continue his vile crimes in society. The system is a complete and utter joke. 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

The man behind the Kriss Donald murder was in jail in 1995 for assault. Then in 2003 was sentenced to 30 months for a vicious assault on a woman, but was released early after 15 months. If he hadn’t been released early, he would never have been able to torture and murder Kriss Donald. This was a man with a history of violence, yet he was still allowed to only serve just over half his sentence and free to continue his vile crimes in society. The system is a complete and utter joke. 

 

We need more vigilante lynch mobs imo.

[luckyBatistuta]

16 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

We need more vigilante lynch mobs imo.

Can’t believe there aren’t more of these in society, as the law is an ass and failing us.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Can’t believe there aren’t more of these in society, as the law is an ass and failing us.

Paul Kersey had the right idea.

[JWL]

5 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

The man behind the Kriss Donald murder was in jail in 1995 for assault. Then in 2003 was sentenced to 30 months for a vicious assault on a woman, but was released early after 15 months. If he hadn’t been released early, he would never have been able to torture and murder Kriss Donald. This was a man with a history of violence, yet he was still allowed to only serve just over half his sentence and free to continue his vile crimes in society. The system is a complete and utter joke. 

 

Was it not Kenny McAskill that was Justice Minister or something around that time and there was a raft of lenient sentences being dished out. Utter prick of a man.