Don Dan Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) As the thread in the Terrace was locked and directions from the Mod were explicitly laid out. I thought that this topic needs to be thrashed out and hopefully in a manner that doesn’t require moderator intervention again. It’s an emotive topic. My overriding take on it is that All Lives Matter not just Blacks. However racism (to Blacks in particular) is an insidious blight on humanity that exists in most societies. It needs to be tackled, exposed and dealt with across all media and social media platforms. What’s happening now though is the gesture of Taking the Knee IMO has lost its impetus and its actually fragmenting opinion as can be seen in the now locked thread. What we replace it with as far as gestures or things like Show Racism the Red Card I’ve no idea however I’m sure something will. Edited June 11, 2021 by Boy Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Is didn’t see Turkey or Italy take the knee prior to the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Vince Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gorgie Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I think it's pointless but if those that do it feel it's making a difference then bash on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) BLM is NOT saying "Black lives matter more" It's pointing out that a black life is seen as being worth less than others, especially in the eyes of Police, both in the States and in the UK. A couple of the originators of the BLM movement are twats who identify as Marxists, and that's let the far-right bams label EVERY anti-racist as a communist insurgent Let's be clear. BLM is not a communist plot to overthrow the white man. That's just laughable. Kick It Out and Show Racism The Red Card have been going for years and years and haven't actually managed to change anything for the better. If anything, racism is worse now than it's been since the 1980s, especially on the terraces. The very fact that the right wing bams get SO angry about taking a knee only proves that it should continue to be done. Edited June 11, 2021 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 None, absolutely no point to it other than to partake in self serving virtue signalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, jonesy said: ableist I had to look that word up😬 Every day is an education Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 They could do a handstand for all I care. It happens for 10 seconds, then the football starts. That's all I'm interested in. I don't know how anyone can actually be that bothered about it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, Cruyff said: They could do a handstand for all I care. It happens for 10 seconds, then the football starts. That's all I'm interested in. I don't know how anyone can actually be that bothered about it either way. Yep. Let people express themselves in the manner they see fit. Don't criticise people for not partaking in it if they choose not to for their own individual reasons. It really should be that simple as long as it isn't impacting on the event itself, which taking a knee for a few seconds clearly does not. It winds up the racists so personally I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I have no idea what to think about most of these things now. It all feels meaningless after a while. All social media becomes a bun fight of total whataboutery and claim and counter claim and then finally people start getting called racist or nazis and I completely switch off. It’s a nightmare now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Any excuse to moan about something, i wish my life was so great that i could concentrate on who's taking the knee and who's not lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I know I'm posting on this thread, but in reality I'm not sure I care any more about what sports people choose to do. Inequality whether borne out of religion, colour or money is wrong. Let people do the hell what THEY feel is right and that's at an individual level. @jack D and cokecalled it spot on for me. It's completely out of control with people looking for reasons to be offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 31 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: Any excuse to moan about something, i wish my life was so great that i could concentrate on who's taking the knee and who's not lol. The people who want to make big noises about most things aren’t worth bothering about. Especially the social media types. I’m on all the platforms but I swear to god I hate it all I want to kill people. Your life probably is quite good that you struggle to give a shite man. It’s the ones that get raging about this shit that are for the watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Boy Daniel said: I didn’t see Turkey or Italy take the knee prior to the start. Yup. Racist countries, at least per the spotty little do gooders on that hobo.net thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 No-one in American sports is doing it so why are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) Individual choice. I personally believe if you dont do it, it doesnt make you a racist, unfortunately there are far to many ready to label you as one for not going on the knee. Edited June 12, 2021 by John Findlay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 I like it. It winds up racists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 9 hours ago, Sooperstar said: Yep. Let people express themselves in the manner they see fit. Don't criticise people for not partaking in it if they choose not to for their own individual reasons. It really should be that simple as long as it isn't impacting on the event itself, which taking a knee for a few seconds clearly does not. It winds up the racists so personally I'm all for it. Where I'm at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 9 hours ago, Sooperstar said: Yep. Let people express themselves in the manner they see fit. Don't criticise people for not partaking in it if they choose not to for their own individual reasons. It really should be that simple as long as it isn't impacting on the event itself, which taking a knee for a few seconds clearly does not. It winds up the racists so personally I'm all for it. Fair comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Good to see this thread moved to the Shed as it’s not football related enough and Jim White leaving SKY is ! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 It is cringeworthy and something I pretty much ignore now. Players do it now because it’s the done thing. In 50 years time when players are still taking the knee they will be wondering wtf they are doing it 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¼½¾ Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: It is cringeworthy and something I pretty much ignore now. Players do it now because it’s the done thing. In 50 years time when players are still taking the knee they will be wondering wtf they are doing it 😂 In 50 years time there'll have been so many things have happened that players will have a 10 minute routine to go through before kick off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefsajambo Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 I turned up to ref a kids game a while back and had a parent demanded to know why I hadn't instructed the kids to take the knee. When I told him I felt it inappropriate to bring politics into 12 year old football match he said "oh you must be one of them" Getting to point where people getting offended when others simply don't agree with them. Ended up just laughing at the state the boy got himself into which actually made him worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnunb Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 43 minutes ago, Lemongrab said: In 50 years time there'll have been so many things have happened that players will have a 10 minute routine to go through before kick off. Will we not already be at that when we play Celtic, what with their huddle and then taking the knee? I just want to watch the game ffs 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoolfordsHearts Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 48 minutes ago, Lemongrab said: In 50 years time there'll have been so many things have happened that players will have a 10 minute routine to go through before kick off. 😄Shouldn't laugh but so very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, chuck berrys hairline said: No-one in American sports is doing it so why are we? In America, it's done during the national anthem- which gets played before loads of different sports events. It makes great symbolic sense to kneel in contrast to standing to attention. It's having a voice against the blind acceptance that all is happy and glorious in the country. Since we don't have anthems before a league match or a grand prix or whatever, we get this staged genuflection which, in isolation, looks like a token gesture. I fully agree with the wishes behind the protest/movement but agree with those who've already written that it will only go the way of Show Racism the Red Card etc. There has to be something bigger behind it. Afraid I don't know what. Edited June 12, 2021 by I P Knightley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Pupkin Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9677997/I-wont-foot-soldier-woke-war.html?fbclid=IwAR0-KGMzuGdsnQKR4wi8J6MZm7wH9uUokpX-CDfsPlFKmbnujXPdEiBWELw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Neither for or against but it needs to be seen as less “compulsory”. I don’t for one instant believe every player doing it is doing it through personal choice and expressing their own strongly held belief system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 No knee taken by Welsh or Swiss. Why are Scotland doing this again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Just now, JackLadd said: No knee taken by Welsh or Swiss. Why are Scotland doing this again? Both teams did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Tazio said: Both teams did it. Boo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH11_2NL Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 16 hours ago, jack D and coke said: I have no idea what to think about most of these things now. It all feels meaningless after a while. All social media becomes a bun fight of total whataboutery and claim and counter claim and then finally people start getting called racist or nazis and I completely switch off. It’s a nightmare now. Bravo! This is where I stand (not kneel). And anyone who doesn't kneel should never be castigated or vilified. It's a personal choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH11_2NL Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 5 hours ago, therefsajambo said: I turned up to ref a kids game a while back and had a parent demanded to know why I hadn't instructed the kids to take the knee. When I told him I felt it inappropriate to bring politics into 12 year old football match he said "oh you must be one of them" Getting to point where people getting offended when others simply don't agree with them. Ended up just laughing at the state the boy got himself into which actually made him worse. Well done you. I think if it was me they'd be looking for another ref that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 I wonder what the reaction will be at Tynecastle next season when they continue taking a knee infront of supporters . Most people don't care but I'd imagine there would be a few boos . Kback will be fun 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 7 hours ago, therefsajambo said: I turned up to ref a kids game a while back and had a parent demanded to know why I hadn't instructed the kids to take the knee. I'd've been sorely tempted to send the ****er either off or away from the pitch/ground - that IS still an option open to refs isn't it? 'Instructed the kids' - fer ****'s sake. Even disregarding all the politics...where does that leave their personal choice? 7 hours ago, therefsajambo said: When I told him I felt it inappropriate to bring politics into 12 year old football match he said "oh you must be one of them" Getting to point where people getting offended when others simply don't agree with them. Ended up just laughing at the state the boy got himself into which actually made him worse. Never hurts to prick the pomposity of twats like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, JackLadd said: No knee taken by Welsh or Swiss. Why are Scotland doing this again? So, you were schooling me on Marxism. What is Marxism exactly, and what aspects of it particularly shine through in BLM for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 20 hours ago, Cruyff said: They could do a handstand for all I care. It happens for 10 seconds, then the football starts. That's all I'm interested in. I don't know how anyone can actually be that bothered about it either way. Exactly this. There are many more deserving causes of the amount of press football has given racism but at the end of the day, by the time they come to take the knee it is so near the kick-off that I am usually already fully immersed in the game so it doesn't matter. Ironic I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Smithee said: So, you were schooling me on Marxism. What is Marxism exactly, and what aspects of it particularly shine through in BLM for you? Hope you're not holding your breath... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 45 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Hope you're not holding your breath... What a shitty school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 I've yet to see a credible reason for them to stop. As long as it continues to trigger the worst people in society though, long may it continue. I certainly don't think people who've never experienced the feeling of someone using their skin colour to dehumanise them should be demanding it stops though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Nunya Business said: I've yet to see a credible reason for them to stop. As long as it continues to trigger the worst people in society though, long may it continue. I certainly don't think people who've never experienced the feeling of someone using their skin colour to dehumanise them should be demanding it stops though. I think these things just get a bit diluted after a while. They should look to replace it with something else. Happy for it to continue but I’d prefer a new campaign to keep the message fresh. I suppose when something becomes routine it stops becoming news and people stop paying attention to it. Edited June 12, 2021 by GinRummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: I think these things just get a bit diluted after a while. They should look to replace it with something else. Happy for it to continue but I’d prefer a new campaign to keep the message fresh. I suppose when something becomes routine it stops becoming news and people stop paying attention to it. Much like "Show Racism The Red Card" then. I don't think anyone expected racial inequality to suddenly disappear because some footballers started taking a knee before kick off. The real fight starts with making people more accountable for the things they say online. But because the problem hasn't gone away doesn't mean the gesture isn't still worthwhile. And, as other have said, it triggers far-right cretins, so long may it continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Just now, Nunya Business said: Much like "Show Racism The Red Card" then. I don't think anyone expected racial inequality to suddenly disappear because some footballers started taking a knee before kick off. The real fight starts with making people more accountable for the things they say online. But because the problem hasn't gone away doesn't mean the gesture isn't still worthwhile. And, as other have said, it triggers far-right cretins, so long may it continue. I do agree and I’m not quite sure what they could do to replace it anyway. As I said, happy for it to continue but if someone could come up with a new idea to keep it fresh and newsworthy that would be my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: I do agree and I’m not quite sure what they could do to replace it anyway. As I said, happy for it to continue but if someone could come up with a new idea to keep it fresh and newsworthy that would be my preference. That's the crux of the matter as well. Halfwits (not you) saying they should stop and do something else without actually suggesting what they should do instead. And mentioning other anti-racist initiatives (that haven't done enough themselves) as if that should be enough for the ingrates. I just don't see why anyone would have any complaints. It's a 5 second symbolic gesture that does no harm to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Just now, Nunya Business said: That's the crux of the matter as well. Halfwits (not you) saying they should stop and do something else without actually suggesting what they should do instead. And mentioning other anti-racist initiatives (that haven't done enough themselves) as if that should be enough for the ingrates. I just don't see why anyone would have any complaints. It's a 5 second symbolic gesture that does no harm to anyone. Maybe they could do something in addition to it. Most of the audience are watching on tv. Maybe a segment before the game or at half time could feature footballers willing to talk about how racism has affected them. Maybe something on strips again. Not sure but needs freshened up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamborich Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 They've devalued it by making a song and dance over those who don't do it. It should have been a period of time where (one or two rounds of fixtures) where they have BLM on the shirts and everyone did it and then back to individual choice. Colin Kaepernick doing it was a really powerful piece of symbolism, as was footballers doing it at first. Once it becomes every game, every player it just pales into part of the routine. Maybe that is what has happened and it's just everyone still feels they want to do it, and that's great, however the Scotland team's stance on it suggests that's not what's happened. Either they believe in it and as such should do it in all our games, or they don't. Doing it for just the England game trivialises it and does make it political imo. They're doing it solely to be seen to do it. Had they stood as we have done in other games and then taken a knee if the booing started when England did it, then that would have been a far, far more powerful statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Taffin said: They've devalued it by making a song and dance over those who don't do it. It should have been a period of time where (one or two rounds of fixtures) where they have BLM on the shirts and everyone did it and then back to individual choice. Colin Kaepernick doing it was a really powerful piece of symbolism, as was footballers doing it at first. Once it becomes every game, every player it just pales into part of the routine. Maybe that is what has happened and it's just everyone still feels they want to do it, and that's great, however the Scotland team's stance on it suggests that's not what's happened. Either they believe in it and as such should do it in all our games, or they don't. Doing it for just the England game trivialises it and does make it political imo. They're doing it solely to be seen to do it. Had they stood as we have done in other games and then taken a knee if the booing started when England did it, then that would have been a far, far more powerful statement. As you say it would have sent a much louder message to take the knee if/when the booing started, that would have been a really powerful image. I'd bet that there are a lot of players not just in Scotland, who don't want to do this anymore, but they also know that they would face a torrent of abuse on social media, so for a quiet life it's much easier to just go along with it. And that's what devalues the whole thing, because they aren't doing it because they want to, but are doing it because they don't want the abuse for not doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: As you say it would have sent a much louder message to take the knee if/when the booing started, that would have been a really powerful image. I'd bet that there are a lot of players not just in Scotland, who don't want to do this anymore, but they also know that they would face a torrent of abuse on social media, so for a quiet life it's much easier to just go along with it. And that's what devalues the whole thing, because they aren't doing it because they want to, but are doing it because they don't want the abuse for not doing it. Excellent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, Nunya Business said: I've yet to see a credible reason for them to stop. As long as it continues to trigger the worst people in society though, long may it continue. I certainly don't think people who've never experienced the feeling of someone using their skin colour to dehumanise them should be demanding it stops though. You think the poor in this country aren't dehumanised? Whether they're black, white or whichever, people should start thinking about them. The likes of Thatcher and now Boris didn't/don't give a feck which colour the poor were/are in the UK, she bulldozed them all and so will he. Edited June 13, 2021 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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