Peter Stefanovic humiliating Westminster

[John Findlay]

16 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Quite. 
since when were we in favour of massive subsidies to large landowners ?

I have little sympathy for farmers, never met a poor one, never met one who admitte to being rich .

 

Bit like doctors😉

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

WTF is going on? 

 

 

 

If she sat in an office all day she'd get criticised for not having a clue how the police operate, for not being hands on, and when she goes out with the police to try and understand what the police have to contend with, she gets criticised for doing that.

I've seen footage of her present at drug/county lines raids at 4am & 5am, seemingly the only ever Home Secretary that's done that, to actually go out and support the police on the ground.

 

Methinks it's just nature with some folks, that it doesn't matter what someone like Patel does, they'll always find faults with it.

 

 

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[Cade]

Test&Trace has cost every man, woman and child in the UK over £500.

 

Would have been more effective giving everybody £500 to stay in during the first lockdown and crushed the virus properly.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Cade

[coconut doug]

10 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I don't think it's that.

The Tories are only where they are right now because Labour elected the wrong brother and have been an absolute cluster-fest since, it should tell you everything you need to know when life-long Labour voters are voting Tory for the first time in their lives, because many see that Labour have lost their way and don't know what they stand for and don't represent them anymore. 

 

That's not stupidity, that's disillusionment in Labour.

 

True in part but DM was the continuity candidate and he was toxic because of his close associations with Blair. The Iraq war made them unelectable and is still the biggest reason they can't catch the Tories now. Is their polling not worse now than it was with Corbyn?

You're right they don't stand for anything, they always try to be on both sides of the argument and end up abstaining which effectively supports the Tories. 

   There is nobody worth voting for it seems so why do so many vote Tory? Surely still the worst option but if you vote Labour you get Tory so you might as well vote Tory anyway. Many think is Boris entertaining, the labour Party can't offer even that.

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

True in part but DM was the continuity candidate and he was toxic because of his close associations with Blair. The Iraq war made them unelectable and is still the biggest reason they can't catch the Tories now. Is their polling not worse now than it was with Corbyn?

You're right they don't stand for anything, they always try to be on both sides of the argument and end up abstaining which effectively supports the Tories. 

   There is nobody worth voting for it seems so why do so many vote Tory? Surely still the worst option but if you vote Labour you get Tory so you might as well vote Tory anyway. Many think is Boris entertaining, the labour Party can't offer even that.

They won another election 2 years after the Iraq war, 16 years ago and their last election win to date. The  motion to press ahead with said war only got through parliament with the support of the Tories because it had so much opposition from MPs in their own party.

 

The Tories breathed a huge sigh of relief when Ed won the leadership battle in 2010 because they knew David would have given them a much harder time.

[ri Alban]

13 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Fecking brilliant. I just wish she had been in Glasgow last week.

The bams would have self combusted 

May just have hanged her for being an Uncle Tom. 

[ri Alban]

13 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Fecking brilliant. I just wish she had been in Glasgow last week.

The bams would have self combusted 

How's the travelling, Stig?(Not top gear) You still superspreading like a ten bob tart. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by ri Alban

[Nucky Thompson]

12 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

How's the travelling, Stig?(Not top gear) You still superspreading like a ten bob tart. 

I won't be spreading anything. Always washing ma hawns and keeping ma distance fae folk 

[manaliveits105]

14 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's the ringleaders of a people smuggling gang being arrested.

Not the same as attending a simple immigration breach is it?

Don’t ruin the idiots rage with facts 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

If she sat in an office all day she'd get criticised for not having a clue how the police operate, for not being hands on, and when she goes out with the police to try and understand what the police have to contend with, she gets criticised for doing that.

I've seen footage of her present at drug/county lines raids at 4am & 5am, seemingly the only ever Home Secretary that's done that, to actually go out and support the police on the ground.

 

Methinks it's just nature with some folks, that it doesn't matter what someone like Patel does, they'll always find faults with it.

 

 

This is appalling . She is vile . My god imagine if she had came up last week to Glasgow ! Squaring off with wee Nicky ! That would have been a riot . Evil person 

[JudyJudyJudy]

I used to respect Peter and admire him but he’s went down a rabbit hole re covid . No objectivity regarding BJ bit praising NS . Still at least he still supports JC . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 hours ago, Cade said:

Test&Trace has cost every man, woman and child in the UK over £500.

 

Would have been more effective giving everybody £500 to stay in during the first lockdown and crushed the virus properly.

True . An absolute disgrace . Never even hear about now . Places don’t even make sure u sign in either . At a restaurant last night and no signing it . Not that it really bothered us 

[jack D and coke]

14 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

If she sat in an office all day she'd get criticised for not having a clue how the police operate, for not being hands on, and when she goes out with the police to try and understand what the police have to contend with, she gets criticised for doing that.

I've seen footage of her present at drug/county lines raids at 4am & 5am, seemingly the only ever Home Secretary that's done that, to actually go out and support the police on the ground.

 

Methinks it's just nature with some folks, that it doesn't matter what someone like Patel does, they'll always find faults with it.

 

 

I do agree with your points in general

tho Jim. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I do agree with your points in general

tho Jim. 

 

The point that is being missed is that the person in the photo isn't being arrested for being an Illegal Immigrant, he's being arrested on suspicion of being a people smuggler.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/priti-patel-joins-police-raids-people-smugglers-arrested-nca-b936270.html

 

Irrespective of any persons political views, I'd had thought everybody would be happy that people suspected of dealing, facilitating and profiting in the misery that is people smuggling, are tracked down, arrested and face the full weight of justice.

 

It was mentioned yesterday that this photo was Patel on an Immigration raid and was being used to have a pop at the her & the tories.

The problem is she wasn't, she was on a raid to arrest suspected people smugglers, a completely different thing entirely, and something which I'd had thought most people would be happy is happening.

 

Does she have to be there, front and centre, of course not, she could have stood on the street away from the camera's and it would have had the same effect & support for the police, so I will say that she used this raid as a photo opp to promote her own standing, in the same way that other politicians don hard hats and pretend that they can lay a brick or work some machine or even hold a baby, it's all theatre, it's all for show.

 

[jack D and coke]

17 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The point that is being missed is that the person in the photo isn't being arrested for being an Illegal Immigrant, he's being arrested on suspicion of being a people smuggler.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/priti-patel-joins-police-raids-people-smugglers-arrested-nca-b936270.html

 

Irrespective of any persons political views, I'd had thought everybody would be happy that people suspected of dealing, facilitating and profiting in the misery that is people smuggling, are tracked down, arrested and face the full weight of justice.

 

It was mentioned yesterday that this photo was Patel on an Immigration raid and was being used to have a pop at the her & the tories.

The problem is she wasn't, she was on a raid to arrest suspected people smugglers, a completely different thing entirely, and something which I'd had thought most people would be happy is happening.

 

Does she have to be there, front and centre, of course not, she could have stood on the street away from the camera's and it would have had the same effect & support for the police, so I will say that she used this raid as a photo opp to promote her own standing, in the same way that other politicians don hard hats and pretend that they can lay a brick or work some machine or even hold a baby, it's all theatre, it's all for show.

 

Absolutely mate. 

[I P Knightley]

18 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/06/uk-braces-for-strongest-economic-growth-since-wwii-forecasts-bank-of-england#:~:text=The Bank raised its estimate,boom in pent-up demand.

 

just one - google uk economic growth for others 

Exactly as I thought.

 

Growth based on a massively suppressed denominator can always be described as "strong growth" when expressed as a percentage.

 

Let's see what the Governor of the Bank of England is quoted as saying in the article you've shared:

 

Quote

Let’s not get carried away. It takes us back by the end of this year to the level of output we had essentially at the end of 2019 pre-Covid.

 

That's "recovery", not growth.

Edited May 21, 2021 by I P Knightley

[manaliveits105]

Its a start - could be a lot worse .

[coconut doug]

12 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

They won another election 2 years after the Iraq war, 16 years ago and their last election win to date. The  motion to press ahead with said war only got through parliament with the support of the Tories because it had so much opposition from MPs in their own party.

 

The Tories breathed a huge sigh of relief when Ed won the leadership battle in 2010 because they knew David would have given them a much harder time.

 

DM was not the messiah and neither is Starmer. The party is rammed with obvious chancers and will never get anywhere near power again until they get a radical agenda and stop their infighting.

[Mysterion]

12 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

DM was not the messiah and neither is Starmer. The party is rammed with obvious chancers and will never get anywhere near power again until they get a radical agenda and stop their infighting.

 

Yeah - till such time they come together and agree to reset and present the party as a centrist (but compassionate) then they'll go no where. 

 

The problem isn't necessarily some of the ideas the left of the party have, it's the people presenting them. Starmer is the starting point to getting back to that level however cross examining the PM and making him look a bit silly isn't working in the current climate.

 

Go back 10-20yrs and it would have done.

 

It needs a different approach, it needs a clear message and it needs to be underlined by attacking Tory sleaze which has been rife lately.

[coconut doug]

13 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Yeah - till such time they come together and agree to reset and present the party as a centrist (but compassionate) then they'll go no where. 

 

The problem isn't necessarily some of the ideas the left of the party have, it's the people presenting them. Starmer is the starting point to getting back to that level however cross examining the PM and making him look a bit silly isn't working in the current climate.

 

Go back 10-20yrs and it would have done.

 

It needs a different approach, it needs a clear message and it needs to be underlined by attacking Tory sleaze which has been rife lately.

 

Correct. If making Boris look a bit silly was a path to success Labour would have had a landslide at the last election. His popularity ratings are still high even though people know he is a corrupt buffoon. Labour can't provide an alternative with any level of credibility. They are perceived as being worse than a regime being run by a corrupt buffoon. 

[manaliveits105]

I see Dundee is to get the next Eden Project on the waterfront - another bluddy tooooooary hearts and minds plot to woo the good people of Scotland.

 

Sorry we arent getting the Great British Railways though as the SG will undoubtedly feck up with the Scotrail takeover .

[Dunks]

25 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

 

Sorry we arent getting the Great British Railways though as the SG will undoubtedly feck up with the Scotrail takeover .

 

The GBR proposal is effectively replicating the current arrangements in Scotland via the Scotrail Alliance across the rest of the UK. Network Rail has always been a reserved matter, so nothing really changes in Scotland as a result.

[Cruyff]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I do agree with your points in general

tho Jim. 

For someone who is a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant, she has some ****ing brass neck. 

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

DM was not the messiah and neither is Starmer. The party is rammed with obvious chancers and will never get anywhere near power again until they get a radical agenda and stop their infighting.

 

No-one’s the Messiah, real or fictional. All politicians are chancers and charlatans to some degree. No professional qualifications are needed to become one.  What do you mean by a Radical Agenda? If that means far left, then look forward to Labour rattling around on the opposition benches with 200 MPs and an incompetent and corrupt Tory party given licence wreak havoc. A big no thanks from me.. We’ve seen this movie before - twice. Scarecrow Foot in the early 80s and that old goat with the beard before Starmer.  Backed by the menacing thuggery and intimidation tactics of Militant and Momentum respectively. All that does is scare voters away.

 

Like it or not, Labour have to take votes from people who might otherwise be inclined to vote Tory and their policies need to reach out to them. Look what happened to the so called red wall. It’s turned into a blue wall. I have never voted Tory and never will but I wouldn’t touch the likes of a Corbyn or Foot with a shitty stick and millions of others normally inclined to vote Labour are of the same mind.

Edited May 21, 2021 by SwindonJambo

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

DM was not the messiah and neither is Starmer. The party is rammed with obvious chancers and will never get anywhere near power again until they get a radical agenda and stop their infighting.

 

I remember an interview I seen right after the last GE in 2019, I think it might have been Eric Pickles, but don't quote me on that, besides it doesn't matter who it was it was, it was what he said that is the relevant part here, it must have also been after Corbyn had announced he was standing down as leader.

 

Pickles was asked who he feared out of the expected candidates, none was his reply, and why, because all are tainted in one way or another, either by being a Blairite, the loony left/momentum or were anti-brexit, and none of those will cut it with the electorate, as we have just seen he pointed out.  When asked about Keir Starmer he said that he thought he'd win and be the new Labour party leader and was happy about that, because Labour had just lost a pile of seats in the North and not just because of brexit but also because Labour voters believed that the London based leadership just didn't understand the North anymore, so do you really think an anti-brexit London based lawyer is going to resonate with Labour's Northern voters........no he said, in fact Labour may lose even more ground in the North through Starmer.

 

Pickles added who he did fear, and it was whoever came after Starmer, especially if they are not affiliated with any of the aforementioned factions and that they are from the North, then I'll be worried he said.

 

So far he's been correct.

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Adil Ray another tit who completely misses the fact that the guy apprehended is a suspected people trafficker 

[coconut doug]

11 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

No-one’s the Messiah, real or fictional. All politicians are chancers and charlatans to some degree. No professional qualifications are needed to become one.  What do you mean by a Radical Agenda? If that means far left, then look forward to Labour rattling around on the opposition benches with 200 MPs and an incompetent and corrupt Tory party given licence wreak havoc. A big no thanks from me.. We’ve seen this movie before - twice. Scarecrow Foot in the early 80s and that old goat with the beard before Starmer.  Backed by the menacing thuggery and intimidation tactics of Militant and Momentum respectively. All that does is scare voters away.

 

Like it or not, Labour have to take votes from people who might otherwise be inclined to vote Tory and their policies need to reach out to them. Look what happened to the so called red wall. It’s turned into a blue wall. I have never voted Tory and never will but I wouldn’t touch the likes of a Corbyn or Foot with a shitty stick and millions of others normally inclined to vote Labour are of the same mind.

 

Certainly not the Milibands. A radical agenda is one that is distinguishable from the laissez faire we allow to be foisted on us by the current collection of chancers and charlatans. Imo it has to be substantially to the left otherwise what's the point but we can do without the nonsense woke style agenda. I think we like the high tax high level of services socialist model of many northern European countries. We have to generate wealth but we have to avoid funnelling wealth to those who already have it. 

  Pretendy capitalism is sinking us. Giving money to financiers and institutions to carry out functions they have no expertise in simply because they are private concerns is madness. Look at power companies and trains, the probation service and prisons and elements of the health service. They have been privatised to allow profits to be made. The consumer pays more, working conditions are eroded, sevices diminished etc. 

  Scarecrow Foot, old goat and menacing thuggery really. You think they were kept in power because of thuggery? I watched the demonisation of both of them and while both had serious limitations i believe that Corbyn was the least obvious chancer in politics and had a far better policy platform than Blair or Brown. They were kept in power by pandering to the needs of our financial sector by reducing taxes and dereregulating much of the City. Things looked o.k. for a while because we borrowed huge amounts off the books via pfi. We are paying for it now.

   Corbyn was removed not because they could discredit his policies but because they invented and weaponised a narrative of anti- semitism against him. They were scared of his policies because they struck a chord with the public. He performed well in PMQs Imo but the Press ridiculed him for his issue based approach.

     You can have 500 Labour MPs if you want but it wont make any difference if they don't have a radical agenda. You might as well vote Tory because the outcome is the same. They are the Red Tories that's why i wouldn't touch them with your shitty stick.

[coconut doug]

31 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I remember an interview I seen right after the last GE in 2019, I think it might have been Eric Pickles, but don't quote me on that, besides it doesn't matter who it was it was, it was what he said that is the relevant part here, it must have also been after Corbyn had announced he was standing down as leader.

 

Pickles was asked who he feared out of the expected candidates, none was his reply, and why, because all are tainted in one way or another, either by being a Blairite, the loony left/momentum or were anti-brexit, and none of those will cut it with the electorate, as we have just seen he pointed out.  When asked about Keir Starmer he said that he thought he'd win and be the new Labour party leader and was happy about that, because Labour had just lost a pile of seats in the North and not just because of brexit but also because Labour voters believed that the London based leadership just didn't understand the North anymore, so do you really think an anti-brexit London based lawyer is going to resonate with Labour's Northern voters........no he said, in fact Labour may lose even more ground in the North through Starmer.

 

Pickles added who he did fear, and it was whoever came after Starmer, especially if they are not affiliated with any of the aforementioned factions and that they are from the North, then I'll be worried he said.

 

So far he's been correct.

 

 

 

Another schism in Labour. Metropolitan v provincial. Strangely i think the left will win the battle for Labour. We saw how tainting works and labelling people loony left or whatever has damaged the Labour party massively and left wing politics generally but that was always the objective.

 

All manner of dodgy dealings and associations seem acceptable to the UK electorate as long as they are Tories or Labour right wingers but anybody going on about a fairer, more equal society is branded some kind of impractical loony. How can you not beat Johnson's Tories?

 

If by any chance Starmer gets some traction and threatens their ascendancy you will see the establishment come to the aid of the Tories. Starmer's may have skeletons in the cupboard with Jimmy Saville, Rebecca Brookes, Ian Tomlinson and others but even if he hasn't that wont stop them insinuating that he has and it wont stop the electorate from dropping him when they do. I seem to remember Corbyn making some headway then suddenly he became an anti-semite. The public vote to a large degree on personalities which is sustaining Boris but is not good for Starmer.  

[John Findlay]

You cannot humiliate those that have no shame. That is all of the Palace of Westminster.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

35 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Another schism in Labour. Metropolitan v provincial. Strangely i think the left will win the battle for Labour. We saw how tainting works and labelling people loony left or whatever has damaged the Labour party massively and left wing politics generally but that was always the objective.

 

All manner of dodgy dealings and associations seem acceptable to the UK electorate as long as they are Tories or Labour right wingers but anybody going on about a fairer, more equal society is branded some kind of impractical loony. How can you not beat Johnson's Tories?

 

If by any chance Starmer gets some traction and threatens their ascendancy you will see the establishment come to the aid of the Tories. Starmer's may have skeletons in the cupboard with Jimmy Saville, Rebecca Brookes, Ian Tomlinson and others but even if he hasn't that wont stop them insinuating that he has and it wont stop the electorate from dropping him when they do. I seem to remember Corbyn making some headway then suddenly he became an anti-semite. The public vote to a large degree on personalities which is sustaining Boris but is not good for Starmer.  

 

Depends on how far left, I just can't see any Corbyn style left being acceptable to the electorate, indeed it was rejected twice by the voters, so i think it'll have to be closer to the centre left, how close to the centre, well that'll be the key.

 

Tainting and labelling works both ways, 'loony lefty' on one side 'fascist or nazi' on the other, when the truth is typically somewhere inbetween for the majority of people, but it seems to me that it's an all to easy & lazy option nowadays to label people.  We see it on here all too often, you disagree with someone then the 'your a racist' or 'your a tory' label gets rolled out.

 

The government of the day controls the establishment narrative, if Labour were in government it would be Labour who controlled the narrative. It's always harder for the opposition to get their message across, they don't have the weight or power of the government machinery behind them, well not until they win and then the roles reverse.

 

For me Starmer has been a major disappointment, I was really looking forward to some real sparing for a change at PMQ's, but he has barely landed a glove on Bojo thus far, maybe Starmer's playing some long game here, but at moment it's just not working.

As a consequence Bojo et al are having a free run of the place, the now.

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Depends on how far left, I just can't see any Corbyn style left being acceptable to the electorate, indeed it was rejected twice by the voters, so i think it'll have to be closer to the centre left, how close to the centre, well that'll be the key.

 

Tainting and labelling works both ways, 'loony lefty' on one side 'fascist or nazi' on the other, when the truth is typically somewhere inbetween for the majority of people, but it seems to me that it's an all to easy & lazy option nowadays to label people.  We see it on here all too often, you disagree with someone then the 'your a racist' or 'your a tory' label gets rolled out.

 

The government of the day controls the establishment narrative, if Labour were in government it would be Labour who controlled the narrative. It's always harder for the opposition to get their message across, they don't have the weight or power of the government machinery behind them, well not until they win and then the roles reverse.

 

For me Starmer has been a major disappointment, I was really looking forward to some real sparing for a change at PMQ's, but he has barely landed a glove on Bojo thus far, maybe Starmer's playing some long game here, but at moment it's just not working.

As a consequence Bojo et al are having a free run of the place, the now.

 

The government especially a Labour government does not control the narrative. Historically the written press and now TV and social media are the opinion formers. Most people believe state ownership is bad and don't mind the corruption and theft of national assets by private individuals and companies believing that to be a minor and unfortunate consequence resulting from the necessary privatisation and reduction in control. They believe this because it is drummed into them regularly in the media. They can't quite convince the public that the NHS should be privatised and that is the next challenge for the plutocrats.

 

   Most of private industry in this country nowadays is just an increasingly elaborate mechanism to siphon off money from the state. They keep taking money out and put nothing back in and so the system is broken. More of the same won't fix it. Somebody once said that the workers need to take control of the means of production, it's almost as if they could see this day coming. The public wont vote for anything unless the BBC/Daily Mail/social media tells them too. Voting for Labour is voting for more of the same, what's the point? Starmer at best is just another John Major. Boris is just a blonde Gordon Brown with a personal life. It shouldn't be difficult to find something better but it is proving to be impossible. The public will vote for anybody they see as being honest and vaguely competent - unless of course the media tells them not to.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Voting for Labour is voting for more of the same, what's the point? Starmer at best is just another John Major. Boris is just a blonde Gordon Brown with a personal life. It shouldn't be difficult to find something better but it is proving to be impossible.

 

Which is why it is so important that Labour gets it right with the appointment of their next leader.

[SwindonJambo]

20 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Depends on how far left, I just can't see any Corbyn style left being acceptable to the electorate, indeed it was rejected twice by the voters, so i think it'll have to be closer to the centre left, how close to the centre, well that'll be the key.

 

Tainting and labelling works both ways, 'loony lefty' on one side 'fascist or nazi' on the other, when the truth is typically somewhere inbetween for the majority of people, but it seems to me that it's an all to easy & lazy option nowadays to label people.  We see it on here all too often, you disagree with someone then the 'your a racist' or 'your a tory' label gets rolled out.

 

The government of the day controls the establishment narrative, if Labour were in government it would be Labour who controlled the narrative. It's always harder for the opposition to get their message across, they don't have the weight or power of the government machinery behind them, well not until they win and then the roles reverse.

 

For me Starmer has been a major disappointment, I was really looking forward to some real sparing for a change at PMQ's, but he has barely landed a glove on Bojo thus far, maybe Starmer's playing some long game here, but at moment it's just not working.

As a consequence Bojo et al are having a free run of the place, the now.

 

Excellent post JJ. I agree with it all. There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of a Corbyn/Foote version of Labour winning an election. It’s been flat rejected by the electorate every time it”s been offered. The socio economic make up of the country has changed and it just won’t wash. All that will ever achieve is to hand power to the Tories who will withstand all sorts of sleaze, incompetence and corruption and still win.

 

I agree that Starmer has been a huge disappointment. I expected much more from him and after a few strong early exchanges at PMQs, he’s sunk without trace and the Hartlepool Bi election was a disaster. Labour need to talk to their lost voters in the red wall and ask why they’ve abandoned them.

 

Anyone can justify their views on whatever ideological or economic grounds they believe in, but you’ll never ever get the chance to put them into practice unless you win an election, and to do that you must win votes that are currently going elsewhere. Lurching further to the  left will never achieve that ever imho. Centre Left with a strong articulate leadership is the only way it can ever be done.  There have been 11 general elections since 1974 and the Tories have won 6 of them, dominated a hung parliament in 2 and lost 3

 

[HartleyLegend3]

Butler on a 'Boris bike' smuggled £27,000 of organic takeaways at 'cost price' into No.10 for PM (under his real first name Alex) and Carrie Symonds over eight months - and some 'was paid for by wife of rich Tory donor' 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9606217/Butler-smuggled-27-000-organic-takeaways-No-10-paid-wife-Tory-donor.html

[Weakened Offender]

On 21/05/2021 at 09:02, jack D and coke said:

I do agree with your points in general

tho Jim. 

 

Patel is utter vermin. A vile human being. 

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[coconut doug]

On 21/05/2021 at 18:58, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Which is why it is so important that Labour gets it right with the appointment of their next leader.

 

Absolutey not. Its important they get their policies sorted and agreed on and supported by all members of the party so that when the personal attacks happen on the leader they are just that and the policies are not seen as distinct to the leader. They have it the wrong way round. It should be the leader who articulates and implements the policies agreed upon by the whole party. If and when the leader is in trouble the policies will endure because they have widespread support. Attaching a bunch of policies to a charismatic leader (messiah) only for the policies die when he does is a failed strategy of their own making. 

[coconut doug]

On 22/05/2021 at 13:22, SwindonJambo said:

 

Excellent post JJ. I agree with it all. There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of a Corbyn/Foote version of Labour winning an election. It’s been flat rejected by the electorate every time it”s been offered. The socio economic make up of the country has changed and it just won’t wash. All that will ever achieve is to hand power to the Tories who will withstand all sorts of sleaze, incompetence and corruption and still win.

 

I agree that Starmer has been a huge disappointment. I expected much more from him and after a few strong early exchanges at PMQs, he’s sunk without trace and the Hartlepool Bi election was a disaster. Labour need to talk to their lost voters in the red wall and ask why they’ve abandoned them.

 

Anyone can justify their views on whatever ideological or economic grounds they believe in, but you’ll never ever get the chance to put them into practice unless you win an election, and to do that you must win votes that are currently going elsewhere. Lurching further to the  left will never achieve that ever imho. Centre Left with a strong articulate leadership is the only way it can ever be done.  There have been 11 general elections since 1974 and the Tories have won 6 of them, dominated a hung parliament in 2 and lost 3

 

 

Did Corbyn not stop May from gaining an outright win? Did he not manage this against a backdrop of misinformation and personal vilification from his own side as well as a hostile media?

 

I'm genuinely confused as to which elements of Corbyn's Labour the public rejected. Was it the policies and if so which ones or was it Corbyn's character or something else. Which elements of it "just wont wash" i really do not understand this point. They were Labour party policies were they not?

 

 Surely the reasons for Hartlepool were explained. It was all Corbyn's fault i heard them say. People dont know what we stand for they said which may have been true but in local elections where policies were more radical and more clearly articulated in the NW of England ,Labour had significant success.

 

 Strong leadership is not the way to go . It's bad for democracy. A strong opposition is essential though and labour cannot even do that. Offering Tory lite policies to lure Tory voters has alienated their traditional support. They are losing almost every argument and cannot take a principled or pragnmatic stance on anything of importance. Abstaining on the crucial issues of the day is not working. Trying to not be offensive is not making people like them.

 

   What was it about Corbyn's policies you didn't like?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Absolutey not. Its important they get their policies sorted and agreed on and supported by all members of the party so that when the personal attacks happen on the leader they are just that and the policies are not seen as distinct to the leader. They have it the wrong way round. It should be the leader who articulates and implements the policies agreed upon by the whole party. If and when the leader is in trouble the policies will endure because they have widespread support. Attaching a bunch of policies to a charismatic leader (messiah) only for the policies die when he does is a failed strategy of their own making. 

 

No, I didn't mean a charismatic leader, I meant basically what you have written above.

 

My fault for just assuming that when I said the right leader, people would realise that was the whole package and not just a figurehead.

[coconut doug]

6 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

No, I didn't mean a charismatic leader, I meant basically what you have written above.

 

My fault for just assuming that when I said the right leader, people would realise that was the whole package and not just a figurehead.

 

Good stuff. The cult of personality is not working well these days for anybody outside the cult.

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[Weakened Offender]

On 21/05/2021 at 18:51, jonesy said:

I applaud the Mods for continuing to allow you your platform of intolerance and hate all in the name of free speech.

 

I mean it's not as if calling someone an Uncle Tom isn't loaded with racial invective... Such racial prejudice on your part is embarrassing in 2021, and you bring shame on yourself for doing so.

 

'Fat', meh - that's pretty subjective.

 

'Ugly' - see above

 

'Bitch' - I got a mod warning and my post deleted for using the same word about Sturgeon over on the Covid thread. Looks like the mods must have taken my polite refutation if its offensiveness on board and we're now allowed to use the term as we wish. Good move for free speech, IMO.

 

 

 

Still at the grassing. 😐

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[Beni]

59 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

 

 

Farmers are on a steep learning curve previously inhabited by fisherman, the DUP, Johnson's former employers, along with his ex-wives and mistresses, where the penny drops that good old Bojo's promises are worthless.

Even those eagerly awaited Brexit unicorns are going to be imported tariff free from Australia.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by fancy a brew

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[HartleyLegend3]

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/03/29/mapping-the-pandemic-1-billion-in-contracts-awarded-to-conservative-donors/

 

Since the beginning of the Coronavirus pandemic, Byline Times and The Citizens have found that 57 contracts – worth some £944 million – have been awarded to 15 companies with directors, or people with controlling interests over these companies, who have donated £12 million to the Conservative Party.

Byline Times and The Citizens have exclusively exposed the contracts awarded to 12 out of these 15 companies.

Our ongoing investigation reported, in February, that COVID-related contracts worth £881 million had been awarded to donors that had given £8.1 million to the Conservative Party. However, just a month on, we have uncovered a further seven links to contract-winning Conservative donors.

[ri Alban]

On 21/05/2021 at 11:34, manaliveits105 said:

Its a start - could be a lot worse .

I'm with you here. Put bells and whistles on the recovery growth. People need some goodish news from somewhere. 

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[maroonlegions]

On 20/05/2021 at 20:41, Cade said:

Test&Trace has cost every man, woman and child in the UK over £500.

 

Would have been more effective giving everybody £500 to stay in during the first lockdown and crushed the virus properly.

Or build  affordable homes.

 

Dido Harding, now there is a woman with utterly no human morals or empathy.. How much did that reptile pocket. Most of the COVID related contracts went to Tory  mates or Tory party donaters .

 

 

Raided and stole from the public/tax payers purse. And still the loonies voted them in...   ????