eyesandears Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Dundee Utd about to sign Charlie Mulgrew. Don’t think the gates are getting locked tomorrow. Maybe not although did Rangers not try and sign Danial Cousin the day before they went into admin 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton51 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: The accounts don't forecast a £2.1m loss for the current year. However they do indicate that there will be a loss, mainly due to an estimated £2.1m loss of matchday income. I suspect that the loss will be in excess of the £2.1m shortfall in income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 I really, really hope none of those clubs who voted against us are in financial trouble. That would be terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton51 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: The accounts don't forecast a £2.1m loss for the current year. However they do indicate that there will be a loss, mainly due to an estimated £2.1m loss of matchday income. I suspect that the loss will be in excess of the £2.1m shortfall in income. They owe a lot of money to the owner and government. very reliant on staying up. I think they are going to go down the youth route and try to make money that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 Dundee Utd look to be in trouble, hence them not signing a new manager and promoting from within. Doubt they'll go "bust" though, probably just end up getting relegated again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor FinnBarr Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Kiwidoug said: I really, really hope none of those clubs who voted against us are in financial trouble. That would be terrible. Awfy terrible.......just we'ed a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Newton51 said: I think we are winning 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnunb Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Dundee is too small for two clubs. **** off United. 👋 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said: Dundee Utd look to be in trouble, hence them not signing a new manager and promoting from within. Doubt they'll go "bust" though, probably just end up getting relegated again. I don’t think we saw the SG giving us £500k and allowing the top flight clubs to take loans, no bank will loan clubs money just now. We can but hope 🙏🤞. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchy frog Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Footballfirst said: The accounts don't forecast a £2.1m loss for the current year. However they do indicate that there will be a loss, mainly due to an estimated £2.1m loss of matchday income. I suspect that the loss will be in excess of the £2.1m shortfall in income. I actually respect your word FF and look forward to your posts. Let's wait and see though eh. Guaranteed some greeting faced ***** with too much time on their hands will slag. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 15 hours ago, Footballfirst said: The accounts don't forecast a £2.1m loss for the current year. However they do indicate that there will be a loss, mainly due to an estimated £2.1m loss of matchday income. I suspect that the loss will be in excess of the £2.1m shortfall in income. The daft laddie question is: Is the £2.1m loss over and above taking the gov loan of £2.8m into account, so is it in real terms without the loan, it would have been a £4.9m loss???? OK the loans saved the premiership clubs then and there, the grant helped every body else, But every single chaiman lied, as they were all predicting clubs to die accross Europe, the EPL expected 40% casualties in clubs with out fans. I expected at least 10 clubs to be gone by now, based on what I have been told first hand. Hamilton sold no season tickets last year at all, DU massive losses getting to the SPFL, Dundee now the same, Killie drop out will hurt. Sheep ran out of money, Hibs will sell, Celtic are selling, St J in a good place. Brechin have CL so they are doomed. Albion Rovers could not afford a team bus. Zero casualties, so they are all lying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said: The daft laddie question is: Is the £2.1m loss over and above taking the gov loan of £2.8m into account, so is it in real terms without the loan, it would have been a £4.9m loss???? OK the loans saved the premiership clubs then and there, the grant helped every body else, But every single chaiman lied, as they were all predicting clubs to die accross Europe, the EPL expected 40% casualties in clubs with out fans. I expected at least 10 clubs to be gone by now, based on what I have been told first hand. Hamilton sold no season tickets last year at all, DU massive losses getting to the SPFL, Dundee now the same, Killie drop out will hurt. Sheep ran out of money, Hibs will sell, Celtic are selling, St J in a good place. Brechin have CL so they are doomed. Albion Rovers could not afford a team bus. Zero casualties, so they are all lying The £2.1m loss of income relates to the financial year 2020/21 as does the government loan. DU is forecasting a loss for 2020/21 but does not quantify it, although identifies the primary reason as the loss of income. In previous years Mark Ogren has covered the losses by way of interest free loans. I'd anticipate that the government loan will cover the bulk of this year's losses, perhaps with a lower contribution from Ogren. Hearts is little different in relying on benefactors, FOH and Bidco to cover what would otherwise be significant operating losses (some loans, some donations). Edited June 10, 2021 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Footballfirst said: The £2.1m loss of income relates to the financial year 2020/21 as does the government loan. DU is forecasting a loss for 2020/21 but does not quantify it, but identifies the primary reason as the loss of income. In previous years Mark Ogren has covered the losses. I'd anticipate that the government loan will cover the bulk of this year's losses, perhaps with a lower contribution from Ogren. Hearts is little different in relying on benefactors, FOH and Bidco to cover what would otherwise be significant operating losses. Last daft question, did we get to the bottom of how long to clubs get to pay it back and was there any interest payments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martoon Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said: Last daft question, did we get to the bottom of how long to clubs get to pay it back and was there any interest payments? Interest free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said: Last daft question, did we get to the bottom of how long to clubs get to pay it back and was there any interest payments? I think the government loans are repayable over 20 years, with a year's grace before repayment, and are interest free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 12 hours ago, neilnunb said: Dundee is too small for two clubs. With current set ups - yes. Both clubs would be best served pooling money into a new stadium development allowing them to reduce costs and generate more income year round. The lack of progressive thinking in Scottish football is what holds the country back, merging the two isn't going to work (fans will reject it, future generations will be brought up to reject it). It really needs one of them to actually go bust to achieve the other goal of having 1 big Dundee team. Since that looks unlikely working together on infrastructure would be a much better approach providing a solid financial base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section s heart Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Hagar the Horrible said: The daft laddie question is: Is the £2.1m loss over and above taking the gov loan of £2.8m into account, so is it in real terms without the loan, it would have been a £4.9m loss???? OK the loans saved the premiership clubs then and there, the grant helped every body else, But every single chaiman lied, as they were all predicting clubs to die accross Europe, the EPL expected 40% casualties in clubs with out fans. I expected at least 10 clubs to be gone by now, based on what I have been told first hand. Hamilton sold no season tickets last year at all, DU massive losses getting to the SPFL, Dundee now the same, Killie drop out will hurt. Sheep ran out of money, Hibs will sell, Celtic are selling, St J in a good place. Brechin have CL so they are doomed. Albion Rovers could not afford a team bus. Zero casualties, so they are all lying The Govt loan won't directly impact their profit and loss for the year, the £2.8m is more of a balance sheet and cash issue. But with the reported fall in gate income of £2.1m, and their existing track record of: i) recent losses, ii) too high wages/ turnover ratio, you'd expect to see the loss being above the £2.1m figure. They are probably lucky in a way that the Govt loan was available this year to help fund their losses and deal with their short term liquidity, but they're now saddled with more chunky debt that will be a burden to repay over the long term, as well as their debt to Ogren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, section s heart said: The Govt loan won't directly impact their profit and loss for the year, the £2.8m is more of a balance sheet and cash issue. But with the reported fall in gate income of £2.1m, and their existing track record of: i) recent losses, ii) too high wages/ turnover ratio, you'd expect to see the loss being above the £2.1m figure. They are probably lucky in a way that the Govt loan was available this year to help fund their losses and deal with their short term liquidity, but they're now saddled with more chunky debt that will be a burden to repay over the long term, as well as their debt to Ogren. Wonder how invested a guy like Ogren is really as well? If he decided to walk away, with the money they'd still owe him, they'd be goosed, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section s heart Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, TheBigO said: Wonder how invested a guy like Ogren is really as well? If he decided to walk away, with the money they'd still owe him, they'd be goosed, right? Can't be a great place for clubs to get into, knowing that if the owner wants out, they probably can't afford to repay him. Not a great place for Ogren either, I guess he could only force the issue as far as how much any new owner wanted to invest in buying the club. Some parallels with Romanov? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, section s heart said: Can't be a great place for clubs to get into, knowing that if the owner wants out, they probably can't afford to repay him. Not a great place for Ogren either, I guess he could only force the issue as far as how much any new owner wanted to invest in buying the club. Some parallels with Romanov? Yeah was just thinking that, as I read your first line. Guess the diff was Romanov's empire crumbled around him. Not sure about this Ogren guy, same could happen I suppose and he could call the loans or whatever, but my concern if I was Dundee United would be if they get relegated again next season, does this guy just decide what's the point and walk.... I mean what's the deal with him. Grew up an Arab? We could be saying the same about Hibs I guess - they're now beholden to a guy with spurious interest in them. Seems pretty legit to be fair from his interviews etc, but if he has pressure elsewhere, his wee Scottish fitba team won't mean too much to him sentimentally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 18 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said: Dundee Utd look to be in trouble, hence them not signing a new manager and promoting from within. Doubt they'll go "bust" though, probably just end up getting relegated again. Did they give the Head Coach role to the teenager in India who does their video analysis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Mysterion said: With current set ups - yes. Both clubs would be best served pooling money into a new stadium development allowing them to reduce costs and generate more income year round. The lack of progressive thinking in Scottish football is what holds the country back, merging the two isn't going to work (fans will reject it, future generations will be brought up to reject it). It really needs one of them to actually go bust to achieve the other goal of having 1 big Dundee team. Since that looks unlikely working together on infrastructure would be a much better approach providing a solid financial base. Particularly daft there as they aren't even in different sides of the city, just different sides of the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Did they give the Head Coach role to the teenager in India who does their video analysis? Gave the job to Tam Courts (former Kelty manager) - he's been "Head of Tactical Performance" at their youth academy for 18 months. Liam Fox as his assistant now. Definitely the cheap option. Time will tell if it's a good decision or not ..... Anyone know what the hell a "head of tactical performance" does ? Wonder if Courts reported to Robbie .... or would it be to that guy Tony Ashgar ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Lone Striker said: Gave the job to Tam Courts (former Kelty manager) - he's been "Head of Tactical Performance" at their youth academy for 18 months. Liam Fox as his assistant now. Definitely the cheap option. Time will tell if it's a good decision or not ..... Anyone know what the hell a "head of tactical performance" does ? Wonder if Courts reported to Robbie .... or would it be to that guy Tony Ashgar ? Liam Fox left Hearts since he left he has been with Raith Livi Hibs now Dundee United 😂 He only signed for Hibs a couple weeks ago . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will-i-am-a-jambo Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 10 hours ago, section s heart said: Can't be a great place for clubs to get into, knowing that if the owner wants out, they probably can't afford to repay him. Not a great place for Ogren either, I guess he could only force the issue as far as how much any new owner wanted to invest in buying the club. Some parallels with Romanov? Careful now. I told my Dun Utd supporting mate that this could be like Romanov at Hearts and he told me quite angrily that Ogren was nothing like Romanov. Time will tell. I also warned him about the speculate to accumulate route and he ignored that by telling me they had Shankland to sell for millions. That was last year. Don't think he would be saying the same now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 15 hours ago, TheBigO said: Yeah was just thinking that, as I read your first line. Guess the diff was Romanov's empire crumbled around him. Not sure about this Ogren guy, same could happen I suppose and he could call the loans or whatever, but my concern if I was Dundee United would be if they get relegated again next season, does this guy just decide what's the point and walk.... I mean what's the deal with him. Grew up an Arab? We could be saying the same about Hibs I guess - they're now beholden to a guy with spurious interest in them. Seems pretty legit to be fair from his interviews etc, but if he has pressure elsewhere, his wee Scottish fitba team won't mean too much to him sentimentally. Romanov's empire did indeed crumble around him. I'd put money on that Ogren's isn't exactly flying high just now either though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 What about those deferred wages? The ones that were created to show that Aberdeen, Hibs and a few others were more honourable than big, bad Hearts. As long as their players got their full money, albeit eventually, it didn't matter about any redundancies at the 3 demoted clubs. Was there a time limit for repayment? Surely they must have all been paid up now or Fraser Wishart would have been right into the clubs. It just seems to have gone all quiet with no fanfare announcing those deserving players have now been fully paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 10 hours ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said: Careful now. I told my Dun Utd supporting mate that this could be like Romanov at Hearts and he told me quite angrily that Ogren was nothing like Romanov. Time will tell. I also warned him about the speculate to accumulate route and he ignored that by telling me they had Shankland to sell for millions. That was last year. Don't think he would be saying the same now! I had one of those strange tangerine creatures trying to tell me that they were going to take Boyce from us when we were in the Championship, because they could afford to, and that they had the third biggest budget in Scottish football going forward and they were set to dominate at the top end of the league, he's a tad quiet these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section s heart Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 11 hours ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said: Careful now. I told my Dun Utd supporting mate that this could be like Romanov at Hearts and he told me quite angrily that Ogren was nothing like Romanov. Time will tell. I also warned him about the speculate to accumulate route and he ignored that by telling me they had Shankland to sell for millions. That was last year. Don't think he would be saying the same now! Guessing there's very few genuine sugar daddies out there prepared to throw money into clubs outside of those who are lifelong fans eg Walker family at Blackburn. I take it that Ogren is looking for a return on his money, which means either his business plan succeeds (odds against) or he assumes buyers exist who would take out his debt (questionable) or he tries to recoup by selling assets (only £250k for Shankland now?). The big asset is presumably Tannadice and a groundshare/ merger with Dundee. Not too many palatable options for United fans if the business plan fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professorfate Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I don’t get why hibs have to sell their prized assets and I not convinced Ron Gordon has the funds to bankroll them in the transfer market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, section s heart said: Guessing there's very few genuine sugar daddies out there prepared to throw money into clubs outside of those who are lifelong fans eg Walker family at Blackburn. I take it that Ogren is looking for a return on his money, which means either his business plan succeeds (odds against) or he assumes buyers exist who would take out his debt (questionable) or he tries to recoup by selling assets (only £250k for Shankland now?). The big asset is presumably Tannadice and a groundshare/ merger with Dundee. Not too many palatable options for United fans if the business plan fails. As long as the Americans are in charge at D Utd and Dundee a merger or ground share will definitely be on the cards. Those guys have grown up looking at sports teams as franchises. Moves to new cities, changes of names and badges, stuff that would cause riots here, are routine over there. And the idea of consulting fans over stuff like that is an anathema to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byyy The Light Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 17 hours ago, Stu_HMFC said: Liam Fox left Hearts since he left he has been with Raith Livi Hibs now Dundee United 😂 He only signed for Hibs a couple weeks ago . He never signed for Hibs in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesandears Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said: As long as the Americans are in charge at D Utd and Dundee a merger or ground share will definitely be on the cards. Those guys have grown up looking at sports teams as franchises. Moves to new cities, changes of names and badges, stuff that would cause riots here, are routine over there. And the idea of consulting fans over stuff like that is an anathema to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 On 09/06/2021 at 19:20, Kiwidoug said: Sure there's nothing wrong with us collectively engaging the power of positive thinking and hoping Hibs go bust? Ron might run away with all their money. It's his money after all. He might not, but he might. What a superb difference that is between us. Their money is Ron's money. Our money is our money. Every last penny. 😂❤❤❤❤❤❤ Hope you doo Ron Ron Ron, you do Ron Ron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 24 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said: He never signed for Hibs in the end. Yeah I noticed right after I posted ha,ha couldn't be arsed getting back on and editing the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingAboutObua Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 13 hours ago, section s heart said: The big asset is presumably Tannadice and a groundshare/ merger with Dundee. Not too many palatable options for United fans if the business plan fails. Nelms has said a huge part of why they got involved with Dundee was that Dundee owned Dens themselves and they and that could contribute to the new stadium build. A groundshare with United from Dundee's side was very much off the cards (all pre pandemic of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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