Trans athletes

[neilnunb]

1 minute ago, Lovecraft said:

Laurel will be gutted.

 

 

 

I just can't believe they didn't even shave their pits. 🤣

[JFK-1]

This is obviously sensible, though i'm perplexed as to how it took so long to do this, how it even got to this in the first place. Do I really need to be a scientist to figure out this is not logical? Just the simple stats can prove how illogical it has been.

 

The trans swimmer for example, as a guy he couldn't even get into the top 500 in the US, and I think that's as far as the ranking goes. But competing in the women's events he was number 1 inside a year.  Do I need to be a scientist to look at that and conclude yep something is rotten here?

[Tazio]

 

[JFK-1]

I think this is the swimmer I mentioned in a previous post, couldn't get into the top 500 against men but became number 1 in a year competing against women. I mean this is truly ridiculous, no wonder the likes of Putin can make jokes about the likes of this.

 

[redjambo]

57 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

 

They do have the Gay Games, which is a smaller version of the Olympics.

 

 

Yes, but much more flamboyant.

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

Imagine the hilarity of an Olympics where all the women’s records were better than the men’s records. 

 

The women's events even if they were tainted by males with an advantage will never match the men's, the ones holding that advantage are in the women's events because they couldn't compete with the best in the men's.

 

But this type of thing can taint records, if any of these athletes who are now ineligible to compete in the women's events set any records while competing as a woman, that record has to be expunged. Otherwise we could see women's records unfairly stuck.

 

Though I think in the case of tainted records it's not unique, take the women's 100 metres for example. Only one woman has ever run under 11 seconds, the first man to run under 11 seconds was back in the 1890's, the current record was run by Usain Bolt in 9.58 seconds.

 

That one woman to run under 11 seconds did it 3 times all in June/July 1973 when she ran a 10.9 twice and a 10.8 once. The only times a woman has ever run under 11 seconds, and she represented early 1970's East Germany, who we know were doping athletes. 

 

The woman who ran under 11 seconds was Renate Stecher and she has admitted to doping, quote from her wiki page.

 

Following the release of East German secret service files, it was revealed that many of the country's athletes were involved with a state-sponsored drug program. The files document that Stecher had wanted to step down her drug use after the 1972 Olympics, so that she could safely have children.

 

So that's obviously tainted isn't it, should be expunged. They expunged Ben Johnson's world record when he was caught. All old Soviet states records should be expunged, hell Putin is still doping atheletes.

 

Men were first recorded running under 11 seconds about 130 years ago, they now run under 10 seconds frequently, many do it every year, and i'm confident Bolt wasn't drug enhanced.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

The women's events even if they were tainted by males with an advantage will never match the men's, the ones holding that advantage are in the women's events because they couldn't compete with the best in the men's.

 

I think that what Tazio was getting at is that the transgender female athletes would have better records in transgender sport than the transgender male athletes.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

The women's events even if they were tainted by males with an advantage will never match the men's, the ones holding that advantage are in the women's events because they couldn't compete with the best in the men's.

 

But this type of thing can taint records, if any of these athletes who are now ineligible to compete in the women's events set any records while competing as a woman, that record has to be expunged. Otherwise we could see women's records unfairly stuck.

 

Though I think in the case of tainted records it's not unique, take the women's 100 metres for example. Only one woman has ever run under 11 seconds, the first man to run under 11 seconds was back in the 1890's, the current record was run by Usain Bolt in 9.58 seconds.

 

That one woman to run under 11 seconds did it 3 times all in June/July 1973 when she ran a 10.9 twice and a 10.8 once. The only times a woman has ever run under 11 seconds, and she represented early 1970's East Germany, who we know were doping athletes. 

 

The woman who ran under 11 seconds was Renate Stecher and she has admitted to doping, quote from her wiki page.

 

Following the release of East German secret service files, it was revealed that many of the country's athletes were involved with a state-sponsored drug program. The files document that Stecher had wanted to step down her drug use after the 1972 Olympics, so that she could safely have children.

 

So that's obviously tainted isn't it, should be expunged. They expunged Ben Johnson's world record when he was caught. All old Soviet states records should be expunged, hell Putin is still doping atheletes.

 

Men were first recorded running under 11 seconds about 130 years ago, they now run under 10 seconds frequently, many do it every year, and i'm confident Bolt wasn't drug enhanced.

You missed out Carl Lewis and Marion Jones. Seems to an American trait to point at other nations. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

9 hours ago, Australis said:

Why is there not a transgender Olympics, winter Olympics, football world cup, golf classic or something similar.

 

Surely TV and investors would be all over it.

 

The thought occurred to me as well.  Whether investors and tv would back it I don't know but it does seem a sensible compromise.

Athletics have got this right. If equality is about fairness (which is a debate in itself) then you can't give one group of athletes an advantage over another. 

[Dazo]

Correct decision. Maybe they should look at having a transgender category for them to compete fairly. 

[DETTY29]

Seems a sensible approach to take stock and potentially a move towards a trans Olympics.

 

On 5L and apparently Loughborough University are looking into 3 studies on trans sport.

 

Although I'll mention 3 comments in the wider debate, this isn't directly linked to the Loughborough studies.  It's early and apologies if I've misconstrued.

 

Trans athletes gave been able to compete in elite athletics (or was it Olympics) for 12 years.  No-one has competed in an elite event.  (Could of course be stigmatised reasons and not coming forward?)

 

Stigmatising trans people may lead to them not getting involved in sport impacting their well being.

 

And of course the impact below elite level and notably girls, women sports and the clear unfairness it's brings.

Edited March 24, 2023 by DETTY29

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 hours ago, indianajones said:

 

Number issue probably. 

 

World class athletes are a rare breed. Trans likely even rarer despite the force fed news on the issue!

Hardly any competitors really so not box office 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, but much more flamboyant.

😂 I bet the night time parties will be fun ! 

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

Seems a sensible approach to take stock and potentially a move towards a trans Olympics.

 

On 5L and apparently Loughborough University are looking into 3 studies on trans sport.

 

Although I'll mention 3 comments in the wider debate, this isn't directly linked to the Loughborough studies.  It's early and apologies if I've misconstrued.

 

Trans athletes gave been able to compete in elite athletics (or was it Olympics) for 12 years.  No-one has competed in an elite event.  (Could of course be stigmatised reasons and not coming forward?)

 

Stigmatising trans people may lead to them not getting involved in sport impacting their well being.

 

And of course the impact below elite level and notably girls, women sports and the clear unfairness it's brings.

The issue is regarding sone trans taking the place of women who have trained and dedicated their teenage years etc to get to Olympic levels and then a trans person can come along and steal their place . So I don’t think that trans people should be able to complete in these levels either unless competing against other trans . 

[Horatio Caine]

Was rather amused this morning when GMB had a discussion on this topic. One of the journos taking part was called Alison Bender.  Well it made me smile...

[Japan Jambo]

13 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Slowly, but surely, there does finally appear to be an outbreak of common sense on this issue. 

 

Heard Coe on the radio this morning, he was clear and measured. My parting though was that he'd also been pretty brave; there will no double be a vocal and active posse replete with sharpened pitchforks rounding on him shortly.

 

[Bindy Badgy]

2 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Trans athletes gave been able to compete in elite athletics (or was it Olympics) for 12 years.  No-one has competed in an elite event.  (Could of course be stigmatised reasons and not coming forward?)

 

Trans weightlifter Laurel Hubbard competed at an Olympics and came second at the World Championships. The world medal was won at the age of 39, which is way outside the normal age range of world medallists.

[Bindy Badgy]

9 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

The women's events even if they were tainted by males with an advantage will never match the men's, the ones holding that advantage are in the women's events because they couldn't compete with the best in the men's.

 

But this type of thing can taint records, if any of these athletes who are now ineligible to compete in the women's events set any records while competing as a woman, that record has to be expunged. Otherwise we could see women's records unfairly stuck.

 

Though I think in the case of tainted records it's not unique, take the women's 100 metres for example. Only one woman has ever run under 11 seconds, the first man to run under 11 seconds was back in the 1890's, the current record was run by Usain Bolt in 9.58 seconds.

 

That one woman to run under 11 seconds did it 3 times all in June/July 1973 when she ran a 10.9 twice and a 10.8 once. The only times a woman has ever run under 11 seconds, and she represented early 1970's East Germany, who we know were doping athletes. 

 

The woman who ran under 11 seconds was Renate Stecher and she has admitted to doping, quote from her wiki page.

 

Following the release of East German secret service files, it was revealed that many of the country's athletes were involved with a state-sponsored drug program. The files document that Stecher had wanted to step down her drug use after the 1972 Olympics, so that she could safely have children.

 

So that's obviously tainted isn't it, should be expunged. They expunged Ben Johnson's world record when he was caught. All old Soviet states records should be expunged, hell Putin is still doping atheletes.

 

Men were first recorded running under 11 seconds about 130 years ago, they now run under 10 seconds frequently, many do it every year, and i'm confident Bolt wasn't drug enhanced.

 

Lot of women have run the 100 m in under 11 seconds. 11.00 seconds would have resulted in a 7th place finish at the Tokyo Olympics.

 

What makes you confident that Bolt is clean? There isn't a smoking gun with him, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he had doped.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Bindy Badgy

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂 I bet the night time parties will be fun ! 

The issue is regarding sone trans taking the place of women who have trained and dedicated their teenage years etc to get to Olympic levels and then a trans person can come along and steal their place . So I don’t think that trans people should be able to complete in these levels either unless competing against other trans . 

And why it's a very complex issue.

 

And certainly not binary unless you consider banning trans in life...

[DETTY29]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

And why it's a very complex issue.

 

And certainly not binary unless you consider banning trans in life...

 

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂 I bet the night time parties will be fun ! 

The issue is regarding sone trans taking the place of women who have trained and dedicated their teenage years etc to get to Olympic levels and then a trans person can come along and steal their place . So I don’t think that trans people should be able to complete in these levels either unless competing against other trans . 

 

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

What about gender fluid and non binary people? Why should they be marginalised? Shouldn’t they have the right to compete at the highest level of sport?

Sorry meant to multi quote...

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

Trans weightlifter Laurel Hubbard competed at an Olympics and came second at the World Championships. The world medal was won at the age of 39, which is way outside the normal age range of world medallists.

Cheers.