Let the bodies pile high in their thousands

[coconut doug]

12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yep we would have been up shit creek if NS had her way and we had been in the EU and the vaccine procurement was stalled. She has backed the wrong team with that one really. . Massive error on her behalf and i wish she would stop going on about Scotland being " dragged out of the EU as it is the will of the people to stay within it". She actually means the will of the 62% who voted. Btw I voted to remain but hate her using to promote Independence. She is using as a trojan horse for Indy. Its so transparent. 

 

You might wish to consider who put us up shit creek in the first place with their herd immunity, take it on the chin, delaying lockdown, allowing foreign travel, refusing financial support nonsense. Without that we could have achieved an outcome similar to Denmark or Ireland.

 

I really hate unionists pretending the UK gov has done well when by any objective standards it hasn't.

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

You might wish to consider who put us up shit creek in the first place with their herd immunity, take it on the chin, delaying lockdown, allowing foreign travel, refusing financial support nonsense. Without that we could have achieved an outcome similar to Denmark or Ireland.

 

I really hate unionists pretending the UK gov has done well when by any objective standards it hasn't.

They should be in ****ing jail, not congratulating themselves.

[Weakened Offender]

23 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You're having a nightmare on your return. You came back far too early, well before you were intellectually match fit. ...that's the subs board going up for you now. Catch you later.

 

😀

[Taffin]

28 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

England was the worst performing country in the world for a while as far as death rate was concerned. They had a very high infection rate and a high proportion of people in hospital which presumably means greater numbers with long covid.

 

              The UK suffered the second biggest fall in GDP among western countries only slightly better than Spain which is massively dependent on tourism. 

 

  To summarise then - when Scotland is tied to England we fail badly e.g. the economy but when we have a good deal of autonomy our outcomes are significantly better pandemic response.

 

  The vaccine situation has been good for the UK but the story is not finished.

 

The bit in bold is pertinent. Let's see a year from now how England has fared.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

You might wish to consider who put us up shit creek in the first place with their herd immunity, take it on the chin, delaying lockdown, allowing foreign travel, refusing financial support nonsense. Without that we could have achieved an outcome similar to Denmark or Ireland.

 

I really hate unionists pretending the UK gov has done well when by any objective standards it hasn't.

Who said I’m a unionist ? 

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

So its not distasteful scoring political points from deaths ? hmmmm

You are full of shite. No one has made a competition. But hey, since you want to play games and tell lies. 

 

Scotland 7700/5.5m

England 112000/56m

Wales 5500/3.2m

NI 2100/1.9m

[ri Alban]

Boris wanting Tory donors to pay his child's care. 

 

Boris wants double his pay, thou, he's a millionaire and doesn't have to pay a thing for anything whilst he's PM and will rake it in when he leaves office. 

Fud. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You are full of shite. No one has made a competition. But hey, since you want to play games and tell lies. 

 

Scotland 7700/5.5m

England 112000/56m

Wales 5500/3.2m

NI 2100/1.9m

Looks who talking ! 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Yes it does.

 

You said it wasn't responsible for any increase. It was.

 

Public transport, supermarkets, hospitals and care homes are essential and obviously have to stay open, so I'm not sure why you're even bringing them into the mix.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless your being pedantic then of course I didn't claim zero deaths. Someone may well have caught it in a pub and gone on to die. As is the case with anything you do at all.  My point was there is a low risk of transmission there and that is confirmed by SAGE.

The essential services you mention were indeed necessary but they also accounted for the vast majority of transmission and were probably used by a disproportionately high number of people susceptible to Covid. Which is why, arguably,  locking down people and closing hospitality and non-essential retail has not had a great impact on reducing transmission. Given the economic impact they could have been allowed to operate.  

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Unless your being pedantic then of course I didn't claim zero deaths. Someone may well have caught it in a pub and gone on to die. As is the case with anything you do at all.  My point was there is a low risk of transmission there and that is confirmed by SAGE.

The essential services you mention were indeed necessary but they also accounted for the vast majority of transmission and were probably used by a disproportionately high number of people susceptible to Covid. Which is why, arguably,  locking down people and closing hospitality and non-essential retail has not had a great impact on reducing transmission. Given the economic impact they could have been allowed to operate.  

*you're 

[Enzo Chiefo]

22 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I would proffer that this is a huge oversimplification of a situation that not many on this side of the Irish sea truly know much about...I guess it is not an exaggeration to say lives may be at stake...

Fair point KvC but I just feel the EU were playing politics and using NI for leverage. It surely can't be beyond the wit of man to avoid a border anywhere between NI and ROI and check the goods,  if necessary,  in another way.

[Ray Gin]

31 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Unless your being pedantic then of course I didn't claim zero deaths. Someone may well have caught it in a pub and gone on to die. As is the case with anything you do at all.  My point was there is a low risk of transmission there and that is confirmed by SAGE.

The essential services you mention were indeed necessary but they also accounted for the vast majority of transmission and were probably used by a disproportionately high number of people susceptible to Covid. Which is why, arguably,  locking down people and closing hospitality and non-essential retail has not had a great impact on reducing transmission. Given the economic impact they could have been allowed to operate.  

 

Locking down had a huge impact on transmission.

 

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

How many poor girls need access to adequate health products?? What did they do before this gimmick was announced?? I would suggest that anyone who is not prioritising the provision of sanitary products for themself, will already be on the radar of social services. 

Great though that the SNP can save so many people in what I was led to believe was a rich, thriving,  vibrant country😂. Half price food though? Top drawer policy.

So gimmicky when the SNP genuinely try to address inequality and show we are a civilised society that priorities this aspect of women's lives. I prefer this approach to the UK approach which was to tax them as a luxury item before pressure finally made them remove the tax and provide free products in schools, colleges and universities. 

But to get this straight, freebies are not gimmicky when it benefits you. 

Honestly mate, if this isn't a trolling post its a dreadful look. 

[Weakened Offender]

11 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

So gimmicky when the SNP genuinely try to address inequality and show we are a civilised society that priorities this aspect of women's lives. I prefer this approach to the UK approach which was to tax them as a luxury item before pressure finally made them remove the tax and provide free products in schools, colleges and universities. 

But to get this straight, freebies are not gimmicky when it benefits you. 

Honestly mate, if this isn't a trolling post its a dreadful look. 

 

Enzo trolls himself half the time. He's a complete fruitloop of a poster. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

20 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Enzo trolls himself half the time. He's a complete fruitloop of a poster. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Boris wanting Tory donors to pay his child's care. 

 

Boris wants double his pay, thou, he's a millionaire and doesn't have to pay a thing for anything whilst he's PM and will rake it in when he leaves office. 

 

 

 

Nice work if you can get it.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Gizmo said:

So gimmicky when the SNP genuinely try to address inequality and show we are a civilised society that priorities this aspect of women's lives. I prefer this approach to the UK approach which was to tax them as a luxury item before pressure finally made them remove the tax and provide free products in schools, colleges and universities. 

But to get this straight, freebies are not gimmicky when it benefits you. 

Honestly mate, if this isn't a trolling post its a dreadful look. 

Certainly not trolling, but therein lies the problem, if you don't buy in to the group think,  the faux moral superiority,  then it's "not a good look". I fully agree with "hand ups" but not gimmicky "hand outs". Scottish soundbites like "bedroom tax", "rape clause", "period poverty". Repeat and repeat and people start to believe it. Nobody questions it or thinks logically about the issue and who, if any, it affects. 

If there are a small number of women who, for example, cannot afford or prioritise sanitary products then of course help should be available.  Help with budgeting too, self-responsibility, prioritising their spending etc. It doesn't need fanfares and universal free benefits for all, including millionaires.  It's an absolute nonsense.  And just to clarify, they are not "free", someone is paying for them

[Weakened Offender]

17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Certainly not trolling, but therein lies the problem, if you don't buy in to the group think,  the faux moral superiority,  then it's "not a good look". I fully agree with "hand ups" but not gimmicky "hand outs". Scottish soundbites like "bedroom tax", "rape clause", "period poverty". Repeat and repeat and people start to believe it. Nobody questions it or thinks logically about the issue and who, if any, it affects. 

If there are a small number of women who, for example, cannot afford or prioritise sanitary products then of course help should be available.  Help with budgeting too, self-responsibility, prioritising their spending etc. It doesn't need fanfares and universal free benefits for all, including millionaires.  It's an absolute nonsense.  And just to clarify, they are not "free", someone is paying for them

 

What was your favourite scaffy tea when the government was subsidising your evening meal though? 😊

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

What was your favourite scaffy tea when the government was subsidising your evening meal though? 😊

I left a £10 tip to help out the beleaguered business and the hard working staff. It was the least I could do, WO.  Tip Big to Help Out.

[Gizmo]

17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Certainly not trolling, but therein lies the problem, if you don't buy in to the group think,  the faux moral superiority,  then it's "not a good look". I fully agree with "hand ups" but not gimmicky "hand outs". Scottish soundbites like "bedroom tax", "rape clause", "period poverty". Repeat and repeat and people start to believe it. Nobody questions it or thinks logically about the issue and who, if any, it affects. 

If there are a small number of women who, for example, cannot afford or prioritise sanitary products then of course help should be available.  Help with budgeting too, self-responsibility, prioritising their spending etc. It doesn't need fanfares and universal free benefits for all, including millionaires.  It's an absolute nonsense.  And just to clarify, they are not "free", someone is paying for them

 

1) It’s usually cheaper to give to all than pay the admin costs. It makes it universal - not sure why that bothers you so much.
2) I never said they were free, but I’m still happy for my taxes to be spent on such initiatives that reduce hardship or make life easier for a large section of society - there are taxes spent on far worse things that are morally unconscionable.

3) You’ve missed the actual point and undermined your own complaint about ‘free stuff for millionaires’ when championing the “eat out to help out” scheme - why was that NOT costed and offered to those in need, only? 

You can’t have your half-price cake and eat it. But I doubt you care a jot about inequality from the searing lack of empathy that colours most of your posts. Group-think, says someone who follows the Tory play-book to the bloody letter!

 

[Weakened Offender]

12 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I left a £10 tip to help out the beleaguered business and the hard working staff. It was the least I could do, WO.  Tip Big to Help Out.

 

I never used the scheme once. Just carried on paying my way as usual and let the riff raff sponge of the treasury. I don't recall boasting about tips at the time neither. 😊

[Weakened Offender]

15 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

1) It’s usually cheaper to give to all than pay the admin costs. It makes it universal - not sure why that bothers you so much.
2) I never said they were free, but I’m still happy for my taxes to be spent on such initiatives that reduce hardship or make life easier for a large section of society - there are taxes spent on far worse things that are morally unconscionable.

3) You’ve missed the actual point and undermined your own complaint about ‘free stuff for millionaires’ when championing the “eat out to help out” scheme - why was that NOT costed and offered to those in need, only? 

You can’t have your half-price cake and eat it. But I doubt you care a jot about inequality from the searing lack of empathy that colours most of your posts. Group-think, says someone who follows the Tory play-book to the bloody letter!

 

 

That's called getting your arse handed to you on a plate, Enzo. I'm sure Sunak will stump up half the bill for you. 😁

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

1) It’s usually cheaper to give to all than pay the admin costs. It makes it universal - not sure why that bothers you so much.
2) I never said they were free, but I’m still happy for my taxes to be spent on such initiatives that reduce hardship or make life easier for a large section of society - there are taxes spent on far worse things that are morally unconscionable.

3) You’ve missed the actual point and undermined your own complaint about ‘free stuff for millionaires’ when championing the “eat out to help out” scheme - why was that NOT costed and offered to those in need, only? 

You can’t have your half-price cake and eat it. But I doubt you care a jot about inequality from the searing lack of empathy that colours most of your posts. Group-think, says someone who follows the Tory play-book to the bloody letter!

 

The EOTHO was not to help individuals, it was to help businesses.  It was an incentive to get bums on seats with the govt covering the difference.  Individuals spending money on drink also boosted the business coffers.

The number of people who require help to purchase basic sanitary products will, I am sure, already be known to the authorities.  The idea that this affects more than a miniscule amount of women, is for the birds, no pun intended. Provision could be made for them, without the headline grabbing.

It's all very well talking about "progressive" policies, reducing inequality and being a "civilised " nation but on a day that an inquiry found a young girl's death in a new, "state of the art" , flagship Glasgow hospital to be "probably"caused by the hospital environment,  it's probably time to focus on the severe, fundamental failings that are occurring in Scotland.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

That's called getting your arse handed to you on a plate, Enzo. I'm sure Sunak will stump up half the bill for you. 😁

🤔*Stop Press*. He's just been gazumped. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

Disgusting post on so many levels. 

I realise that govt failings are not to be discussed on here but, really,  your post beggars belief. No doubt the SNP spads will be spinning the story furiously.  That, fella, is what is truly disgusting.

 

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

25 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The EOTHO was not to help individuals, it was to help businesses.  It was an incentive to get bums on seats with the govt covering the difference.  Individuals spending money on drink also boosted the business coffers.

The number of people who require help to purchase basic sanitary products will, I am sure, already be known to the authorities.  The idea that this affects more than a miniscule amount of women, is for the birds, no pun intended. Provision could be made for them, without the headline grabbing.

It's all very well talking about "progressive" policies, reducing inequality and being a "civilised " nation but on a day that an inquiry found a young girl's death in a new, "state of the art" , flagship Glasgow hospital to be "probably"caused by the hospital environment,  it's probably time to focus on the severe, fundamental failings that are occurring in Scotland.

 

Wow. Just ****ing wow. You really don't have any grip of reality regarding girls/women requiring the need of basic sanitary products do you? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

21 minutes ago, Cairneyhill Jambo said:

Wow. Just ****ing wow. You really don't have any grip of reality regarding girls/women requiring the need of basic sanitary products do you? 

Do you? It's the need for financial help to buy them we're talking about. How many women need that financial help? You obviously have a grip of "reality". How many? 

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Do you? It's the need for financial help to buy them we're talking about. How many women need that financial help? You obviously have a grip of "reality". How many? 

You said the number of people who require help to buy sanitary products, will be known to the authorities. Deary me. You have no idea of the real world. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, Cairneyhill Jambo said:

You said the number of people who require help to buy sanitary products, will be known to the authorities. Deary me. You have no idea of the real world. 

No, anyone needing help will probably be on the radar of the authorities anyway.  

[XB52]

6 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

You’re not coming across well here. 

You must be new here if you think this is him not coming across well. Every post of his screams privileged tory. Someone who hates the idea of his government actually caring for the less well off. 

[jambo89]

14 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

How many poor girls need access to adequate health products?? What did they do before this gimmick was announced?? I would suggest that anyone who is not prioritising the provision of sanitary products for themself, will already be on the radar of social services. 

Great though that the SNP can save so many people in what I was led to believe was a rich, thriving,  vibrant country😂. Half price food though? Top drawer policy.

 

7 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The EOTHO was not to help individuals, it was to help businesses.  It was an incentive to get bums on seats with the govt covering the difference.  Individuals spending money on drink also boosted the business coffers.

The number of people who require help to purchase basic sanitary products will, I am sure, already be known to the authorities.  The idea that this affects more than a miniscule amount of women, is for the birds, no pun intended. Provision could be made for them, without the headline grabbing.

It's all very well talking about "progressive" policies, reducing inequality and being a "civilised " nation but on a day that an inquiry found a young girl's death in a new, "state of the art" , flagship Glasgow hospital to be "probably"caused by the hospital environment,  it's probably time to focus on the severe, fundamental failings that are occurring in Scotland.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No, anyone needing help will probably be on the radar of the authorities anyway.  

You really are on a different planet if you think that’s the case! 
 

Not living in the real world, yet has the cheek to call out others for a lack of “business acumen”.

[Governor Tarkin]

9 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

What was your favourite scaffy tea when the government was subsidising your evening meal though? 😊

 

Whatever your old dutch could find rattling about at the back of the cupboard.

[Weakened Offender]

32 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Whatever your old dutch could find rattling about at the back of the cupboard.

 

Here's Mouth. 😊

[Governor Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Here's Mouth. 😊

 

That was desert.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Do you? It's the need for financial help to buy them we're talking about. How many women need that financial help? You obviously have a grip of "reality". How many? 

Enzo you are right . If a parent or parents cannot budget the meagre amount it is for sanitary towels even on a low income they have failed as a parent. How can they protect the dignity of their daughter by mis issuing their funds . ? Seriously . Some people on this live in cloud cuckoo land whereas some people have actually worked with said parents and  been witness to their “ budgeting “ and tried to support and encourage them divert their funds or look at funding for this issue . The issue is about parental role and responsibility versus the states role and responsibility and we all know that the SNP has an obsession with involving itself in family life to a concerning degree and disempowering parents in their role . You only have to look at their doomed “ named person “  fiasco . They have also changed the legal definaton of a child to 18 and now “ support “ young people up to 25 who were formally in care. This only promotes dependency on the state and does not encourage independence and personal responsibility and any sense of self worth and achievement 

Edited May 4, 2021 by JamesM48

[Ray Gin]

9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Do you? It's the need for financial help to buy them we're talking about. How many women need that financial help? You obviously have a grip of "reality". How many? 

 

22% of households in the UK live below the poverty line and 30% of children live in these households. This will likely have worsened over the course of the pandemic.

Source: Child Poverty Action Group.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

22% of households in the UK live below the poverty line and 30% of children live in these households. This will likely have worsened over the course of the pandemic.

Source: Child Poverty Action Group.

 

 

That's a sobering statistic, Ray. It would suggest to me that society is fundamentally broken.

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

That's a sobering statistic, Ray. It would suggest to me that society is fundamentally broken.

 

That's 10 years of Tory austerity for you. Their banker mates are fine though, that's the main thing.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

That's 10 years of Tory austerity for you. Their banker mates are fine though, that's the main thing.

 

 

 

You can trace it back an awful lot further than ten years of Tory austerity Ray.

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

You can trace it back an awful lot further than ten years of Tory austerity Ray.

 

It has worsened considerably under the Conservatives in the past decade.

And given that those ***** spent more years in power than anyone else prior to this, the blame lies firmly at their door.

 

[John Findlay]

17 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

22% of households in the UK live below the poverty line and 30% of children live in these households. This will likely have worsened over the course of the pandemic.

Source: Child Poverty Action Group.

 

I keep seeing these stats. No one ever says how they measure poverty in this country. What is the criteria, that says family A are in poverty and family B are not?

[Ray Gin]

4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I keep seeing these stats. No one ever says how they measure poverty in this country. What is the criteria, that says family A are in poverty and family B are not?

 

The poverty line is 60% of the median income.

 

The median household income is £29,900. So the poverty line is a household income of around £18k.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ray Gin

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The poverty line is 60% of the median income.

 

I see. Then perharps as well as helping people financially who are 60% and below, we educate them too in how to make their money last longer. 

Give a man a fish and he can feed himself for a day, give a man a fishing rod and he has the ability to feed himself everyday.

[Ray Gin]

Just now, John Findlay said:

I see. Then perharps as well as helping people financially who are 60% and below, we educate them too in how to make their money last longer. 

Give a man a fish and he can feed himself for a day, give a man a fishing rod and he has the ability to feed himself everyday.

 

Maybe you can volunteer to do that. Head down to the local foodbank and pass on your wisdom to folk who earn £16k trying to feed and clothe themselves and 3 kids.

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Maybe you can volunteer to do that. Head down to the local foodbank and pass on your wisdom to folk who earn £16k trying to feed and clothe themselves and 3 kids.

I would suggest if you are on 16k pa, then having three children was not the wisest of decisions to make in the first place.

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I would suggest if you are on 16k pa, then having three children was not the wisest of decisions to make in the first place.

 

I would agree, if they actually made that decision, and were on that income when they made it. People's circumstances change, and pregnancies happen by mistake.

 

[Weakened Offender]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

That was desert.

 

 

You are though. 😊

[John Findlay]

11 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I would agree, if they actually made that decision, and were on that income when they made it. People's circumstances change, and pregnancies happen by mistake.

 

I don't disagree. Im a father of three myself, 35 year old daughter, 30 year old son. Both planned, 12 year old son, unplanned, but fortunately able to afford, due to the other two having flown the nest.

[Weakened Offender]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

I would suggest if you are on 16k pa, then having three children was not the wisest of decisions to make in the first place.

 

How insightful. 

[coconut doug]

On 01/05/2021 at 20:37, Enzo Chiefo said:

If Carlsberg did factually incorrect posts, dripping with seethe and bitterness...

 

The EU deal that you slate is the same deal that a separate would be trading on with rUK. That represents 65% of our trade. Still support separation?

 

Your blatant disregard and lack of empathy towards the hospitality industry, beggars belief. You obviously know nothing about business which probably explains your liking of totalitarian states like the old Soviet Union. Oppress and control the people with centralised control and crumbs for the masses.

Business owners risk their own money, employ people, invest, expand , turn a profit and pay taxes. Without them, there would be NO freebies.

Furlough was a temporary sop to save jobs, it didn’t help owners who were losing money hand over fist. There is no substitute for trading, none at all.  Eat Out to Help Out was a fantastic success and your spurious claims about costing lives bears no resemblance to reality. University students traversing the country before living cheek by jowl in super spreading halls of residences seems a more likely cause, don't you think?

 

 

On 02/05/2021 at 18:00, Enzo Chiefo said:

The chances of catching Covid from visiting a hospitality premises was confirmed to be "relatively low" by SAGE.  That blows a hole in your unfounded allegations that Eat Out to Help Out was responsible for increased deaths and illnesses.  It was a fantastic success and a deserved boost to the beleaguered business owners who have had to use their own savings to stay afloat while govt paid workers to do nothing. An unsustainable position in any economically literate country. 

 

The 65% figure is the percentage of our trade that relies on the UK single market,  our most important and biggest market by a country mile. If it is claimed it is a disaster that a mere 16% of our trade, with the EU, is subject to the UK/EU trade deal, why would any sane person then want to separate from the UK and subject 65% of our trade to the same terms?? Go figure.

The EU are only allowed to export because of UK goodwill. That will likely change if the EU don't start behaving like grown ups in terms of the Northern Ireland position.  They will suffer just as much as rUK, especially in a few years when their fishing boats can be denied access to our waters. 

 

You are using the quote out of context and have changed the meaning to suit your agenda. When they say you have a “relatively low” chance of being infected by visiting hospitality they mean that the vast majority of people who visit hospitality do not get infected. They do not mean that infection rates are low in hospitality settings in comparison to other possible infection sites.

 

 On the very first page there is a statement that although household mixing creates the most interactions it is the person bringing the infection to the house who is the key to onward transmission. There is a clear statement which says .  “Activity related to shopping and social gatherings in restaurants and pubs generate the most infections,”. It is a moderately subtle point not reported by those whose agenda is primarily to make money. The genomic tracing has identified hundreds of clusters originating in hospitality with many of these being household clusters brought into the house by the person getting infected in the hospitality setting. Secondary infections are recorded as taking place in the house even though they can be directly attributed to hospitality through genomic tracing.

 

By contrast infections in and from hospitals and care homes are very small. The report states “A great reassurance is the small and unchanging contribution of care homes and healthcare settings to exposures.” While this may contradict your common sense the findings seem totally logical to me not least because hospitals and care homes are normally geared up to deal with infection.

 

 Other studies show a higher increase of infection where take up of Eat out to help out was used, the most. It is also true that the rapid increase in infection at the start of the second wave coincided with the latter part and end of the Eat out to help out scheme. Of course government propagandists like the Daily mail will be mobilised to deflect from the government’s culpability in this costly and dangerous initiative. Attempts to blame schools, hospitals and universities are not supported by the timing of the second wave or the genomic tracing research. For those of us who respect science and are not solely dependent on our own opinions there will be more definitive evidence to come.

 

In the meantime why don’t you inform yourself about what has happened instead of repeatedly making dangerous and irresponsible statements about the safety of hospitality. This pandemic is not over.

 

 

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/set-c/set-c-transmission-paper.pdf?la=en-GB&hash=5B7E3B53B578497E026397F741F652F4