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***Summer 2021 Transfer Window - Alex Cochrane signs ( updated ) ***


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ToqueJambo
Just now, jr ewing said:

And 1 wanted him to stay. 

 

It was another 300 or so who wanted him to stay.

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Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

There's a difference between leaving to take up another job and push your career on, like almost every manager does, and walk after a bad defeat when you've been in the job a few months.

 

No shit.

 

Neilson didn't do that though. Levein did to an extent, but again why decry is when doing so if he cared so much?

 

Anyway, as I said, I think Hartley would walk away/take the blame. Hence why I questioned the other posters assertion. All the other stuff is you simply looking to defend Neilson when I didn't even criticise him but merely pointed out why it's unlikely Hartley would find himself with the fans against him.

 

I also haven't suggested anyone should walk away as manager.

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28 minutes ago, Gmcjambo said:

Speaking for myself that’s complete rubbish.    I don’t care who was in charge last season,   my confidence in the manager was completely knocked because of the abject performances in particular, along with a couple of unacceptable cup results.    We had the best squad and resources in the league and I’ve never seen us play such slow, ponderous and uninspiring football in my life.    I want RN to succeed as he’s in the job, and I desperately hope last season was an aberration,  but there was plenty of evidence for me to have some serious concerns.   Don’t give a monkeys if it was Hartley or Robbie tbh,  makes no odds to me.  I just want the team to flourish and play positive, enjoyable football. 

In a nutshell.

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ToqueJambo
Just now, kingantti1874 said:


Lol .
 

before Brora it a was a clear majority , after Brora it was an enormous majority.  Some, like me, will give him another chance.
 

Do I “believe” in Robbie - no I don’t. - I just don’t believe he’s a very good manager, I think hes a basic coach at a level far above his abilities both tactically and from a motivational perspective.

 

The majority will “tolerate” him for now - we have not choice. But if you believe a majority of the hearts support are enthusiastic about his abilities as a manager?  Or believe in him? 
 

well - why don’t you start a poll and find out

 

Polls are a snapshot in time and as you say time moves on. Some should also move on. Brora was a long time ago now. Are Leeds fans still banging on about their mult-squillion team mid table in the "best league in the world" getting cuffed by League 2 Crawley Town and League 1 Hull in the cups last season or are they putting it behind them?

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ToqueJambo
2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

No shit.

 

Neilson didn't do that though. Levein did to an extent, but again why decry is when doing so if he cared so much?

 

Anyway, as I said, I think Hartley would walk away/take the blame. Hence why I questioned the other posters assertion. All the other stuff is you simply looking to defend Neilson when I didn't even criticise him but merely pointed out why it's unlikely Hartley would find himself with the fans against him.

 

I also haven't suggested anyone should walk away as manager.

 

You said Hartley would have walked and I got the sense you thought that was the appropriate response to a bad defeat. If Neilson didn't move to test himself in England why did he move? Are you in the "he was hounded out by the fans" camp?

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12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The most recent poll had just 300 or so wanting him out.

What’s the point with a recent poll because when 95% wanted Neilson sacked Budge just ignored them. Neilson is here now but with fans coming back he’d better not mess up or he will have to be sacked.

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kingantti1874
3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Polls are a snapshot in time and as you say time moves on. Some should also move on. Brora was a long time ago now. Are Leeds fans still banging on about their mult-squillion team mid table in the "best league in the world" getting cuffed by League 2 Crawley Town and League 1 Hull in the cups last season or are they putting it behind them?


it’s about belief. 

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17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yes, it changes things. Fans listen to the manager and when it goes well they revel in what they say. When it goes wrong they want to hear them take some responsibility and share how they're determined to make it right and in turn they'll be more forgiving. Or those particularly principled will walk away when they know they are out of their depth or overseen something that's just not acceptable for the club the manage rather than wait for a pay off. I think Paul Hartley would be one of those guys as I don't think he'd kick the arse out of it at Hearts. That's just opinion though.

 

A manager can either accept that and play the game or they can deny all responsibility and shift the blame elsewhere. That's entirely their prerogative but the outcome is that most fans will hold it against them and it pans out worse for everyone.

 

There will of course be some fans who ignore it entirely and only pay attention when it's gone well and they'll of course be more likely to clap along and find excuses for the manager. They are generally a minority though.

It's a new season why not get behind the team and the manager until you actually have something to complain about. 

Last season is over promotion was achieved with plenty to spare so move on. 

What is the point of all this negativety before a ball has been kicked in our league campaigns. 

The LC has went well so perhaps the form will continue into the league season. 

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10 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It was another 300 or so who wanted him to stay.

199 against 334. 

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ToqueJambo
3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


it’s about belief. 

 

If we're going to judge Neilson on past performance, why are we only allowed to judge him on last season and not the other 2.5  as Hearts manager when he did a perfectly good job (more than good at times)? 

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ToqueJambo
3 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

199 against 334. 

 

Not the last one I saw but I got banned from the poll thread for being too awesome

Edited by ToqueJambo
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Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

You said Hartley would have walked and I got the sense you thought that was the appropriate response to a bad defeat. If Neilson didn't move to test himself in England why did he move? Are you in the "he was hounded out by the fans" camp?

 

Well you sensed wrong then didn't you? I said I think Hartley would have walked or taken on all the blame and as such the other posters assertion was wrong. I never at any stage suggested he would be right in doing so just that it would have avoided him being the scenario Neilson finds himself in.

 

Hartleys one guy, Neilson is another. They'd both behave as they saw appropriate. I think one wouldn't have the fans on his back for long as he'd leave if it got to that, and one, well, does. That's entirely their prerogative. I may be wrong about Hartley, as I said, it was my opinion on how I think he'd handle it.

 

Not that it's remotely relevant to my post to the other poster I replied to which we've established you didn't understand and in your rush to defend Neilson jumped all over but I don't see how anyone can describe moving to MK Dons, getting hounded out at MK Dons and ending up back in the Scottish Championship with Dundee United could constitute as pushing your career on.

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Jambof3tornado
17 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Next season. 

Surely the January window will bless us with new recruits?!?

 

I'm getting that desperate I want a scarf above head shot of whoever gets the chef de partie position!!!

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ToqueJambo
8 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It's a new season why not get behind the team and the manager until you actually have something to complain about. 

Last season is over promotion was achieved with plenty to spare so move on. 

What is the point of all this negativety before a ball has been kicked in our league campaigns. 

The LC has went well so perhaps the form will continue into the league season. 

 

Given we've been as bad as we've ever been while some fans have constantly been moaning, even when we've been going well, you'd think they would consider changing their approach.

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ToqueJambo
1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Well you sensed wrong then didn't you? I said I think Hartley would have walked or taken on all the blame and as such the other posters assertion was wrong. I never at any stage suggested he would be right in doing so just that it would have avoided him being the scenario Neilson finds himself in.

 

Hartleys one guy, Neilson is another. They'd both behave as they saw appropriate. I think one wouldn't have the fans on his back for long as he'd leave if it got to that, and one, well, does. That's entirely their prerogative. I may be wrong about Hartley, as I said, it was my opinion on how I think he'd handle it.

 

Not that it's remotely relevant to my post to the other poster I replied to which we've established you didn't understand and in your rush to defend Neilson jumped all over but I don't see how anyone can describe moving to MK Dons, getting hounded out at MK Dons and ending up back in the Scottish Championship with Dundee United could constitute as pushing your career on.

 

That poster had replied to my original post. What some have against Neilson is beyond me. In 30 odd years I've never seen such sustained vitriol against someone who has been a very, very good servant to us and is in no way responsible for any of the disasters over the last few years.

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8 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It's a new season why not get behind the team and the manager until you actually have something to complain about. 

Last season is over promotion was achieved with plenty to spare so move on. 

What is the point of all this negativety before a ball has been kicked in our league campaigns. 

The LC has went well so perhaps the form will continue into the league season. 

 

 

Where am I being negative?

 

I didn't criticise Neilson, I didn't say he should have done something different I simply gave my reason as to why I think he's in that situation and why I don't think Paul Hartley would find himself in it.

 

Another poster then asked me questions loosely related to what I posted and I tried my best to answer them.

 

As for my post you've quoted, do you disagree that what a manager says has an effect on how fans perceive them? I think it's hard to argue that. I've not criticised anyone in that post though other that state what generally happens dependent on which approach a manager takes...which is entirely up to them which route they go down.

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fancy a brew
3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

If we're going to judge Neilson on past performance, why are we only allowed to judge him on last season and not the other 2.5  as Hearts manager when he did a perfectly good job (more than good at times)? 

 

Aye Levein and JJ shouldn't have been sacked either cos they had good first spells too. 😝

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2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

That poster had replied to my original post. What some have against Neilson is beyond me. In 30 odd years I've never seen such sustained vitriol against someone who has been a very, very good servant to us and is in no way responsible for any of the disasters over the last few years.

 

That's all well and good, it's still doesn't change my opinion that Paul Hartley wouldn't find himself in this situation because he wouldn't allow it to get to that stage. That's not me passing any judgement on Neilson, it's my opinion on Paul Hartley. 

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ToqueJambo
5 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Aye Levein and JJ shouldn't have been sacked either cos they had good first spells too. 😝

 

JJ shouldn't have been sacked. He had a perfectly decent 2nd spell. Laid the foundations for the cup win the following season in fact.

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2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's all well and good, it's still doesn't change my opinion that Paul Hartley wouldn't find himself in this situation because he wouldn't allow it to get to that stage. That's not me passing any judgement on Neilson, it's my opinion on Paul Hartley. 

But Paul Hartley is pish in comparison to Neilson. Or have I missed something along the way. 

 

Folk just don't like Neilson, it's as plain and simple as that and nothing to do with football. 

 

Probably wouldn't enjoy a beer with him but trust him to deliver points 

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1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

But Paul Hartley is pish in comparison to Neilson. Or have I missed something along the way. 

 

Folk just don't like Neilson, it's as plain and simple as that and nothing to do with football. 

 

Probably wouldn't enjoy a beer with him but trust him to deliver points 

 

Again, where did I argue anything to the contrary?

 

The idea that fans would tolerate the same from Paul Hartley more than they do from Neilson may or may not be true...but in my opinion, Hartley would walk or take the blame for poor results and as such wouldn't find himself in that position in the first place.

 

In the made up scenario I think they'd both take different approaches and as such there would be different outcomes because I do believe what managers say effects how fans feel about them rightly or wrongly.

 

I'm out. Neilson is the best, Paul Hartley is rubbish. Everyone can rest easy now.

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Just now, Sir Gio said:

But Paul Hartley is pish in comparison to Neilson. Or have I missed something along the way. 

 

Folk just don't like Neilson, it's as plain and simple as that and nothing to do with football. 

 

Probably wouldn't enjoy a beer with him but trust him to deliver points 

 

The manager he reminds me of most personality wise is Burley. I though Neilson spoke really well on the Scarves Around the Funnel podcast personally. It's weird how some seem to hate him so much. As a player I neither liked him or disliked him. He was just unassuming, similar to his interview style. He seems to be able to get players playing for him though, based on his time with us.

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fancy a brew
14 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

JJ shouldn't have been sacked. He had a perfectly decent 2nd spell. Laid the foundations for the cup win the following season in fact.

 

JJ only won 2 of his last 15 games in charge, and Vlad was a bit less forgiving than Budge (unless you're called Stendel obvs). 

Anyway the point being that a manager stands and falls on results in the here and now, not in a previous spell years earlier.

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siegementality

Seeing as the transfer thread has went to rat shit I’ll add my tuppence in about Neilson.

 

I don’t like him, or his boring football, and I will be happy when he gets punted.

 

Don’t bother replying. I made my mind up a long time ago.

 

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I hope Robbie sends the team out with a bit of belief next Saturday v the tims as they're there for the taking if we go for it. None of the cup final tactics of sitting back and only changing it when we go 2 down. 

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1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Both Levein and Neilson walked out on Hearts as manager so I'm not sure they do care that much...one went as far as to describe us a provincial club when doing so. 

 

I replied to another poster that I don't think Paul Hartley would ever get himself into this situation and I stand by that. I then answered your question as to whether what the manager says makes any difference...it does...as seen by people's reactions to Robbie's excuses. I'm not interested in what players should or shouldn't do, nor did I suggest any manager should walk away. I mentioned one who I think would 

 

Of course it's up to their bosses to sack them, but when their boss clearly doesn't know what to do/won't do it then people who genuinely care about a club will at times walk away to save that non-decision or pay off. 

Hartley didn't walk away from Falkirk until pushed & remember his transfer request when  1st Celtic bid turned down when Robbo was manager

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