2021 Scottish Parliament Election (Thursday 6th May 2021)

[Pasquale for King]

45 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Exactly. The unionists are jumping up and down demanding concrete plans while SG will continue to concentrate on the day job. Once a referendum is agreed, then is the time to discuss the plans

Exactly, what were their plans for Brexit again? Lies on a bus about £350m for the NHS, coloured passports,  bananas and light bulbs.,

[manaliveits105]

15 minutes ago, weehammy said:

In the new cuddly nationalism you’re no longer allowed to say nasty things about England or the English. The simple solution to this is just to substitute the words ‘Tory’ or ‘Westminster’.

Job done!
 

The cult just follow their Tories bad obsessed dictator - its pathetic .

[Dazo]

31 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

An opinion based on facts. Was Brexit the will of the Scottish people? No government speaks for everyone. 

Wow all the way back to the 50’s eh. 😂

 

The rest of the parties just got the dry boaby down south and they got the same amount of seats in the Scottish election. Red card ? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

23 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Regards a hard border, I doubt there would be one over night, as Scotland wouldn't need to have one if it didn't want one.

 

If Scotland were to join the EU, then I guess there would be based on rUK's insistence as a result of the Brexit agreement.

 

 

No, it's the EU that insist on borders to protect their precious single market cartel. That's why we have the issues with N. Ireland. The UK were willing and fought tooth and nail to avoid a border. Eu intransigence got us to the present position and they would do the same with Scotland.  But I guess it's always easier to default to the "UK bad" position. 

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No, it's the EU that insist on borders to protect their precious single market cartel. That's why we have the issues with N. Ireland. The UK were willing and fought tooth and nail to avoid a border. Eu intransigence got us to the present position and they would do the same with Scotland.  But I guess it's always easier to default to the "UK bad" position. 

 

Hang on, we are in a club, we know the rules, we leave the club, but still expect the same treatment?

 

Come on...the UK knew fine well that the EU would protect the single market.

 

We have issues with N Ireland due to UK intransigence!  Played the DUP for mugs (again!)  Yay the Conservative & UNIONIST party!

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Hang on, we are in a club, we know the rules, we leave the club, but still expect the same treatment?

 

Come on...the UK knew fine well that the EU would protect the single market.

 

We have issues with N Ireland due to UK intransigence!  Played the DUP for mugs (again!)  Yay the Conservative & UNIONIST party!

But yet you claim that a border in Great Britain will be the UK'S fault??? Will that not be the EU protecting their single market again?? Come on, at least make an attempt to be impartial.  

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

But yet you claim that a border in Great Britain will be the UK'S fault??? Will that not be the EU protecting their single market again?? Come on, at least make an attempt to be impartial.  

It's not an independent Scotland's fault that their neighbour accepted having a border with the EU!

[Enzo Chiefo]

17 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The cult just follow their Tories bad obsessed dictator - its pathetic .

It's the ignorance around the economics and trade that is the real eye opener. All the old flat earth claims about Hs2, GERS, Scottish exports, whisky exports etc. Funny, we haven't heard much about secret oilfields recently. If permission for another referendum is granted over the next few years then it needs to confer legal responsibility on the SNP to produce a plan that has been verified independently and covers the warts and all assessment of the costs of leaving the UK and a detailed,  costed plan for a new country.  The UK govt have a responsibility to the Scottish people that they are not voting without knowing the full impact. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

It's not an independent Scotland's fault that their neighbour accepted having a border with the EU!

What a ridiculous argument.  We have had Brexit and there is no border now.  The only way there will be a border is if Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU. How bitter do you have to be to claim that is the UK'S fault???

[pablo]

55 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Regards a hard border, I doubt there would be one over night, as Scotland wouldn't need to have one if it didn't want one.

 

If Scotland were to join the EU, then I guess there would be based on rUK's insistence as a result of the Brexit agreement.

 

 

 

If we're all going to play the game of guessing how this could go, I assume you're taking it for granted that Scotland would be in the Common Travel Area? But that's an agreement between Britain and Ireland that predates the EU. 

 

Independent Scotland wants to part of this and according to some, walk away from accepting any portion of debt?

 

These negotiations are going to be interesting.

 

Like a broken record here, but this sort of stuff needs sorted out upfront.

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What a ridiculous argument.  We have had Brexit and there is no border now.  The only way there will be a border is if Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU. How bitter do you have to be to claim that is the UK'S fault???

 

So in other words Scotland really shouldn't even think about independence because England decided to leave the EU?

 

Flip what you said though and then we have no border with 26 other countries, rather than 1.

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

If we're all going to play the game of guessing how this could go, I assume you're taking it for granted that Scotland would be in the Common Travel Area? But that's an agreement between Britain and Ireland that predates the EU. 

 

Hadn't even thought of that!  Mebbes we would be, mebbes not.  But it also works both ways e.g. for rUK to enter Scotland.

 

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Independent Scotland wants to part of this and according to some, walk away from accepting any portion of debt?

 

These negotiations are going to be interesting.

 

Like a broken record here, but this sort of stuff needs sorted out upfront.

 

I guess these positions would be laid out during a referendum campaign?  I agree it's in everyone's interests for that to be agreed, but don't see the problem with it being laid out during a campaign.  Isn't that what happens in most elections anyway, manifestos are scrutinised?

[Boris]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

It's the ignorance around the economics and trade that is the real eye opener. All the old flat earth claims about Hs2, GERS, Scottish exports, whisky exports etc. Funny, we haven't heard much about secret oilfields recently. If permission for another referendum is granted over the next few years then it needs to confer legal responsibility on the SNP to produce a plan that has been verified independently and covers the warts and all assessment of the costs of leaving the UK and a detailed,  costed plan for a new country.  The UK govt have a responsibility to the Scottish people that they are not voting without knowing the full impact. 

 

Would you expect equally binding legal responsibility from the UK govt to honour its position?

 

I know you don't want indy, that much is obvious, but all the little hoops to jump through you are putting up are quite amusing.  

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So in other words Scotland really shouldn't even think about independence because England decided to leave the EU?

 

Flip what you said though and then we have no border with 26 other countries, rather than 1.

The UK voted to leave the EU. Scotland wasn't a member of the EU.

We are talking about who would insist on a border and the one country that wouldn't is the UK. You said they would insist on a border which is factually incorrect.

We may not have a border with 28 other countries with which only 16% of our trade depends.  We have a whacking great ocean between us though!

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Would you expect equally binding legal responsibility from the UK govt to honour its position?

 

I know you don't want indy, that much is obvious, but all the little hoops to jump through you are putting up are quite amusing.  

Ensuring that people don't vote again,  as they did in 2014, while ignorant of the economic and trading realities,  can hardly be described as a "hoop".

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ensuring that people don't vote again,  as they did in 2014, while ignorant of the economic and trading realities,  can hardly be described as a "hoop".

 

Not sure they were ignorant as the case for Indy was obviously not made then!

 

Edit: and it is a hoop if you are talking about "legal responsibilities" etc  Maybe this should be a part of all elections in future?

Edited May 12, 2021 by Boris

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We have a whacking great ocean between us though!

 

Never truer words spoken... (or written)

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Wow all the way back to the 50’s eh. 😂

 

The rest of the parties just got the dry boaby down south and they got the same amount of seats in the Scottish election. Red card ? 

Using Tory logic they lost seats in the constituencies, so they won 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🤪. 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, weehammy said:

In the new cuddly nationalism you’re no longer allowed to say nasty things about England or the English. The simple solution to this is just to substitute the words ‘Tory’ or ‘Westminster’.

Job done!
 

 

It's Westminster and the Tories in I have a problem with, you'll need to get used to hearing about it.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Not sure they were ignorant as the case for Indy was obviously not made then!

 

Edit: and it is a hoop if you are talking about "legal responsibilities" etc  Maybe this should be a part of all elections in future?

Exactly. The case wasn't made then and 7 years on, nothing has changed ; they still don't have answers to basic questions.  Should we trust the same charlatans to lead us over a cliff on a whim? 

 

Not sure about elections as govts should be held to account in Parliament. For constitutional changes, absolutely. Brexit tells us that any future changes need to be ratified after a deal is agreed

[Boris]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Exactly. The case wasn't made then and 7 years on, nothing has changed ; they still don't have answers to basic questions.  Should we trust the same charlatans to lead us over a cliff on a whim? 

.

Well, surely that would come out in the wash during any referendum campaign?

 

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Not sure about elections as govts should be held to account in Parliament.

I wish I shared your optimism! 

 

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

 

 

For constitutional changes, absolutely. Brexit tells us that any future changes need to be ratified after a deal is agreed

In theory I wouldn't really disagree.

[Enzo Chiefo]

24 minutes ago, Boris said:

Well, surely that would come out in the wash during any referendum campaign?

 

I wish I shared your optimism! 

 

In theory I wouldn't really disagree.

Fair comments, Boris 👍

[Cade]

"The UK has made a complete tit of Brexit negotiations so I'm voting no to Independence"

 

[Nucky Thompson]

The EU have been shown up as bullies and incompetent fools, so I'm voting yes to independence so we can take the big Brussels boaby again.

means 

 

[Space Mackerel]

Is the result of the election still at VAR? 

[Space Mackerel]

Was it offside by 15 seats? 

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Was it offside by 15 seats? 

You had a referendum 3 years after that 

Just because you lost doesn't mean it didn't happen 

Once in a lifetime we were told 

More SNP lies

[Nucky Thompson]

10 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Is the result of the election still at VAR? 

It doesn't even make sense. 

It was a Scottish election, all parties were Scottish.

Does the saltire belong to the SNP?

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

You had a referendum 3 years after that 

Just because you lost doesn't mean it didn't happen 

Once in a lifetime we were told 

More SNP lies

It seems like once in generation is 7 years according to UK law drafted for NI

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It doesn't even make sense. 

It was a Scottish election, all parties were Scottish.

Does the saltire belong to the SNP?

I suppose nothing makes sense when you’re trying to justify  a win after getting horsed.

 

Maybe just claim you won the singing? 

[Nucky Thompson]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

I suppose nothing makes sense when you’re trying to justify  a win after getting horsed.

 

Maybe just claim you won the singing? 

Not trying to justify anything Spacey. 

Unbeaten in 2 referendums I've voted in though 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Not trying to justify anything Spacey. 

Unbeaten in 2 referendums I've voted in though 

Shame you’re bottling a 3rd now.

 

Whatever for? 😃

[Nucky Thompson]

6 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Shame you’re bottling a 3rd now.

 

Whatever for? 😃

Not at all.

Just sitting with my feet up, drinking a glass wine and feeling satisfied that I'm in the United Kingdom 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Not at all.

Just sitting with my feet up, drinking a glass wine and feeling satisfied that I'm in the United Kingdom 

No you’re not, you’re sitting on the internet, making up lies and posting like Comical Ali. 😃

[Nucky Thompson]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

No you’re not, you’re sitting on the internet, making up lies and posting like Comical Ali. 😃

Nah, you're right. I had to put my glass of wine down while I was typing 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

If all the people who voted SNP in recent general elections had voted Labour we might still have had Labour governments in the last decade. The collapse of Labour in Scotland where they’re down by 50+ seats on historical performance has been an absolute gift to the Tories.

 

Not really. Look at the results.

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Nah, you're right. I had to put my glass of wine down while I was typing 

I like a wee glass of wine now and again, noticed it’s went up to about £8.50 from £7?

 

Thought that Moog dude said food etc was going down after Brexit and all the  British fish were going to be happy?

 

Guess they’re  happy now because there’s no fishing boats out at sea now from the UK?  😂

 

Good yin! 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

If all the people who voted SNP in recent general elections had voted Labour we might still have had Labour governments in the last decade. The collapse of Labour in Scotland where they’re down by 50+ seats on historical performance has been an absolute gift to the Tories.

 

Hahahahaha what a lot of nonsense. Scotland voted exactly the same in 2005 & 2010 and got different governments, it’s part of the reason why folk have changed from Labour to the SNP, especially the ones that don’t like centre right policies. Labour could’ve won all the seats in Scotland in the last 4 elections and still not been in government.
They’re finished, England is a right wing country and the U.K. is splitting up this decade into its four different parts. The sooner folk accept this undeniable fact the better it will be for themselves. 

[Pasquale for King]

54 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It doesn't even make sense. 

It was a Scottish election, all parties were Scottish.

Does the saltire belong to the SNP?

According to folk RBS having their headquarters in London means they’ve left the country, is it not the same for political party’s?

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

According to folk RBS having their headquarters in London means they’ve left the country, is it not the same for political party’s?

You would be hard pressed to find a RBS bank now down Ingurlund, they’ve all been re-branded NatWest. 
 

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

You would be hard pressed to find a RBS bank now down Ingurlund, they’ve all been re-branded NatWest. 
 

Exactly, there’s not a hell of a lot here either just now. 

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly, there’s not a hell of a lot here either just now. 

 Retail and Commercial banking? Stuck in a negative Ponzi scheme forever now. It’s finished. 

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 Retail and Commercial banking? Stuck in a negative Ponzi scheme forever now. It’s finished. 

Agreed. I meant RBS branches, only a handful in Edinburgh now I can think of. 
 

[Cade]

2019:

Tory - 365

Labour - 202
SNP - 48
202+48= 250
Tories still win

2017:

Tory - 317
Labour - 262
SNP - 35
262+35=297
Tories still win

2015:
Tory - 330
Labour - 232
SNP - 56
232+56=288
Tories still win

2010:

Tory - 306
Labour - 258
SNP - 6
258+6=264
Tories still win

2005:

Labour - 355

Tory - 198
SNP - 6

Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

 

2001:
Labour - 412
Tory - 166
SNP - 5
Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

1997:

Labour - 418
Tory - 165
SNP - 6
Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

 

So away wi yer PISH

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, weehammy said:

If all the people who voted SNP in recent general elections had voted Labour we might still have had Labour governments in the last decade. The collapse of Labour in Scotland where they’re down by 50+ seats on historical performance has been an absolute gift to the Tories.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Cade said:

2019:

Tory - 365

Labour - 202
SNP - 48
202+48= 250
Tories still win

2017:

Tory - 317
Labour - 262
SNP - 35
262+35=297
Tories still win

2015:
Tory - 330
Labour - 232
SNP - 56
232+56=288
Tories still win

2010:

Tory - 306
Labour - 258
SNP - 6
258+6=264
Tories still win

2005:

Labour - 355

Tory - 198
SNP - 6

Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

 

2001:
Labour - 412
Tory - 166
SNP - 5
Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

1997:

Labour - 418
Tory - 165
SNP - 6
Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

 

So away wi yer PISH

 

Aye, so Hammy, as Cade says, the opposite of what you say is actually true.

 

We get the government England votes for. Going back further than that is SNP getting 2 and 3 seats at a time. A shitty government at Westminster has never been the fault of the SNP vote.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

2019:

Tory - 365

Labour - 202
SNP - 48
202+48= 250
Tories still win

2017:

Tory - 317
Labour - 262
SNP - 35
262+35=297
Tories still win

2015:
Tory - 330
Labour - 232
SNP - 56
232+56=288
Tories still win

2010:

Tory - 306
Labour - 258
SNP - 6
258+6=264
Tories still win

2005:

Labour - 355

Tory - 198
SNP - 6

Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

 

2001:
Labour - 412
Tory - 166
SNP - 5
Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

1997:

Labour - 418
Tory - 165
SNP - 6
Even if SNP had won all 59 Scottish seats, Labour still win

 

So away wi yer PISH

Thanks for that 👍🏽

[Ulysses]

16 hours ago, Boris said:

Thanks. So we import more from rUK than export.

So, whilst it's important to trade with rUK, it's also important for rUK to trade with us, therefore you would imagine that a mutually beneficial agreement would come into play.

 

Yep, especially with a pro-business Tory government.  They won't throw away billions worth of business for their constituents and supporters.

 

 

15 hours ago, Dazo said:

I think you underestimate the ill will and the lengths people will go to to cut their own noses off when they don’t get their way. Negotiations will end in disaster for all imo. 

 

They predicted that about the trade agreement with the EU, but that was approved by Parliament with a comfortable majority.  No difference here.  The scale of trade is a bit smaller, but still important enough to make sure to cut a deal.

[Ulysses]

15 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Yeah, that will work.

 

Remember that Scotland needs tarriff free access to the UK infrastructure - roads, rail etc to export/import the majority of its goods to the continent.

 

The UK is obliged to provide that access under international law.  If the UK blocks, inhibits or delays that access for any country, it is in breach of an international convention.  If it blocks, inhibits or delays access to or from the EU market, it is in breach of its trade agreement with the EU, in which case the EU can retaliate by blocking UK road transit into and through the EU, and by imposing tariffs.

 

14 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Road and rail is a far more effective means of delivering goods to the rest of the UK and the continent.  I'm not expert on the logistical reasons but the haulage companies seem to prefer it.

 

Road and rail are quicker, it is that simple, and road is the most accessible mode of all.  That's why road transit rules are so important.  There are international conventions on all sorts of transport, but road is the most significant one.  In fact, the road convention is so broad that it is applied to rail, sea and inland waterway movements of a shipment as long as the goods spend some time on the road.

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

So you are basing an iScotland on the pro business ethics of a Conservative party led govt at Westminster?

 

A sensible person should never start a question with the word "so".

 

Either make a statement or ask a proper question - and stop jumping to conclusions.

[Ulysses]

11 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

I think it's relevant to consider the medium to long term as well as the immediate future. It's a pity governments (UK and Scottish) have not done so more in my opinion.

 

It is surely also relevant to consider just why we have a balance of trades deficit and huge debt in the UK if its so wonderful to be part of it? And why we should stay in such an ineffective organisation? The argument that we are in too much debt to leave is an odd one - as if it is some sort of gambling debt with Boris as the 'Tallyman'

 

 

 

France has a consistent trade deficit but it's a nice country to live in and has a high standard of living.  The United States runs a constant trade deficit and remains a powerful and wealthy country.  In the first decade of this century Canada ran regular trade surpluses.  More recently it has run regular trade deficits, but I don't think Canada has worsened as a place to live and do business in  It's not everything.