Harry Cochrane leaving

[Bob Loblaw]

I think the club handled him poorly.  It wasn't just the Celtic game he looked good in initially, he played very well numerous times.  However, we overplayed him, JJ always said the best time to take a youngster out is when they are doing well as they have the taste and hunger for more, yet we played him most weeks when we weren't that great after his breakthrough and never really managed his niggles etc properly and sent him out on poorly thought out loans.  Why send him out this year?  It would've been an ideal chance to have him in and around squads and he'd have felt part of it.  He obviously doesn't now.

Quite disappointed as I thought he could've been something really special, but I admire him backing himself to do well. Good luck Harry.

[henryheart]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

He was not pushed tbf, Harry never played that many games.  He simply does not have what it takes.

 

I tend to agree. I get the impression that he thinks he is better than he actually is and thought that he had made it after his spell in the first team. We should also recognise that physically people develop most quickly at that age and they can take growth spurts which can impact on their fitness and their ability to develop as footballers. Certainly Scott Brown's brutal tackle on him at Parkhead will not have helped given his age. I could be wrong, of course, but all I can add is that when I saw him playing with the reserves he was not at all impressive, and that is being kind; he contributed very little and his passing was very poor. This appears to have been reflected in his unsuccessful loan spells.  

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

6 figure development fee tho don’t know if he went to USA that would be the case for example 

You can allow them to go for nothing,  if he went to a lower league club you might just make an agreement of a sell on fee maybe. Levein allowed Holt to go to Rangers for £65k instead of going to a tribunal for example. 

[Bull's-eye]

Bye then.

[Jodami]

Our strategy with young players seems very flawed. Players are always going to dip after their initial impact, that often happens. It's what you do with them next that is important. Impossible to apportion all of the blame in this situation but let's be honest the utter shambles on the managerial front over a number of years really doesn't help. The amount of utter dross that has been signed and played in front of our younger players because they were the manager who signed them has undoubtedly been an issue.

On reflection now playing Cochrane and Macdonald at such a tender age just looks like a cynical device employed by Levein to get people off his back at the time and curry favour with some supporters. Like everything else there was no real medium or long term plan.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Jodami

[portobellojambo1]

10 minutes ago, siegementality said:

I’m not convinced that sending young players out on loan to lower league teams is the way forward. It seems a very old fashioned notion and one that hasn’t reaped any rewards for some considerable time. 

 

Maybe if we had a manager who didn’t shite the bed every week he might have developed a few youngsters this year. We are wasting our time investing in an academy with Neilson in charge. He simply doesn’t have the managerial nouse to get results and nurture young talent at the same time. 

I agree totally with this comment. In terms of younger players we are coming to the end of a season where we have been playing against sides of a similar standard to those we have been sending kids on loan to, to see if they have what it takes to have an extended career at Tynecastle. The perfect solution would have been to blend those players into our first team, and find out that way if they have/had a future at HMFC, if they have what it takes to still be on the books once we are back in the top division. We should be developing players for our benefit, not for the benefit of other clubs.

[indianajones]

Club failure. 

[sadj]

21 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Care to elaborate how he has been badly managed? Sounds like you have some inside knowledge?

Some of the shite posted on here is 🙈 , i actually agreed with I8 until he started going on about Budge again. 

 

8 minutes ago, Barack said:

Might get more time to play computer games, whilst part-time.

 

Couldn't break into Dunfermline team & establish himself as a standout. Couldn't do it at Montrose.

 

So much potential. But maybe his application mentally is an issue. I'm sure in 8 years time, I'll be clamouring for his return to Hearts, like every other ex-player.

 

 

🤣🤣🤣

[CloustonHMFC]

Disappointed he didn't kick on because he had potential. Both club and player at fault here for stalling. Hasn't set the heather alight when on loan. Not particularly disappointed he's leaving though.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Our strategy with young players seems very flawed. Players are always going to dip after their initial impact, that often happens. It's what you do with them next that is important. Impossible to apportion all of the blame in this situation but let's be honest the utter shambles on the managerial front over a number of years really doesn't help. The amount of utter dross that has been signed and played in front of our younger players because they were the manager who signed them has undoubtedly been an issue.

On reflection now playing Cochrane and Macdonald at such a tender age just looks like a cynical device employed by Levein to get people off his back at the time and curry favour with some supporters. Like everything else there was no real medium or long term plan.

Spot on, CL played a lot of youngsters to make himself look good but didn’t really help any of the progress properly into players who contributed in 50-100 games to become a regular. 

[Jodami]

11 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I think that was a point that Steven Naismith made when he first arrived at the club.

Naismith has been an enormous disappointment on many fronts and mentoring and developing younger players is another failure to add to that list. He only succeeds in intimidating players with his moaning while doing virtually zero in games that he actually bothers to play in. The very definition of wage thief.

[I.T.K]

1 minute ago, CloustonHMFC said:

Disappointed he didn't kick on because he had potential. Both club and player at fault here for stalling. Hasn't set the heather alight when on loan. Not particularly disappointed he's leaving though.

 

 

Pretty much this. I wish him well. 

 

[Norm]

If you can't do the business on loan at shite teams, there should be no space for you at Hearts. 

[hmfc_liam06]

Just now, Barack said:

Hearts' fault he's been pish at Dunfermline & Montrose, but would've torn the league up in the first team? Being one of the slowest midfielders we've ever had, & not able to compensate it in other ways. Even out on loan.🤔

 

Harry Stone's development seems to be going OK. Strange.

 

Not trying to slate the kid. And I'll line up & have a dig at Hearts where necessary. **** knows there's enough of that. But this is just a wee addition to the fire, so I'll pass. Forgive me if I don't weep at his, or Irving's seemingly imminent departure.

 

 

Well said Prez.

[Pasquale for King]

It’s a shame that he hasn’t progressed as he clearly has the talent, he showed it against Celtic but also in a 2:1 win against Hibs where he ran the show. 
He is very slight but has grown and could do with bulking up a bit, I thought he did well in his only appearance this season in the LC. 
Im sure if he has anything to say about the club he will air his views, he’s not short of confidence. 

[Jim Panzee]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

If you can't do the business on loan at shite teams, there should be no space for you at Hearts. 

have to agree. any club can move heaven and earth for a player but if it's not within them to crack on, then not much can be done...

[sadj]

 

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Hearts' fault he's been pish at Dunfermline & Montrose, but would've torn the league up in the first team? Being one of the slowest midfielders we've ever had, & not able to compensate it in other ways. Even out on loan.🤔

 

Harry Stone's development seems to be going OK. Strange.

 

Not trying to slate the kid. And I'll line up & have a dig at Hearts where necessary. **** knows there's enough of that. But this is just a wee addition to the fire, so I'll pass. Forgive me if I don't weep at his, or Irving's seemingly imminent departure.

 

 

 

 

Great post! 

[siegementality]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Hearts' fault he's been pish at Dunfermline & Montrose, but would've torn the league up in the first team? Being one of the slowest midfielders we've ever had, & not able to compensate it in other ways. Even out on loan.🤔

 

Harry Stone's development seems to be going OK. Strange.

 

Not trying to slate the kid. And I'll line up & have a dig at Hearts where necessary. **** knows there's enough of that. But this is just a wee addition to the fire, so I'll pass. Forgive me if I don't weep at his, or Irving's seemingly imminent departure.

 

 

 

 

So you aren’t concerned as to why two young players - who both have first team experience and have both been offered new contracts with the club - can’t see their future at Hearts?

[Newton51]

Have to remember the lad is only 19. Still plenty of time to develop physically, maybe development has stalled but loaning a passing centre mid to teams who play route 1 football and wonder why he’s not playing well!

[i8hibsh]

Sending out our youth on loan to play against semi professioanl sides is never going to improve them.  

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

Hearts' fault he's been pish at Dunfermline & Montrose, but would've torn the league up in the first team? Being one of the slowest midfielders we've ever had, & not able to compensate it in other ways. Even out on loan.🤔

 

Harry Stones' development seems to be going OK. Strange.

 

Not trying to slate the kid. And I'll line up & have a dig at Hearts where necessary. **** knows there's enough of that. But this is just a wee addition to the fire, so I'll pass. Forgive me if I don't weep at his, or Irving's seemingly imminent departure.

 

 

 

 

 

I think he's been poorly managed but certainly at Dunfermline and Montrose it was in his hands to make it happen. Another poster said JJs always said to take a youngster out the team when they're doing well. I think thats true of Cochrane but unfortunately he was played to injury (By Brown, by inner cynic says we should never have played him the 2nd time against Celtic since thats what Brown does). 

 

Anyway, sounds like he's made the decision to move on, so best of luck to him. Hopefully he kicks on and makes something of his career. 

[Homme]

The club's fault

 

He wasn't good enough period. We've had some pish in midfield recently but almost every one of them I'd  still choose over Harry Cochrane. 

 

This will be the same club that sold Hickey onwards to a Serie A club. Both players broke through around the same age - one of them got better and better until he was one of the first names on the teamsheet and is now playing with Bologna, the other is at Montrose.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Homme

[Cruyff]

6 minutes ago, Barack said:

Hearts' fault he's been pish at Dunfermline & Montrose, but would've torn the league up in the first team? Being one of the slowest midfielders we've ever had, & not able to compensate it in other ways. Even out on loan.🤔

 

Harry Stones' development seems to be going OK. Strange.

 

Not trying to slate the kid. And I'll line up & have a dig at Hearts where necessary. **** knows there's enough of that. But this is just a wee addition to the fire, so I'll pass. Forgive me if I don't weep at his, or Irving's seemingly imminent departure.

Exactly Prez. 

[hmfc_liam06]

2 minutes ago, siegementality said:

So you aren’t concerned as to why two young players - who both have first team experience and have both been offered new contracts with the club - can’t see their future at Hearts?

 

Maybe they weren't given assurances of first team football, maybe they were told we expect big improvements from them.

Maybe they didn't want to dedicate everything to making it at Hearts and opted to choose an easier path? Just maybe....that's why they turned down deals?

[hmfc_liam06]

2 minutes ago, Homme said:

The club's fault

 

He wasn't good enough period. We've had some pish in midfield recently but almost every one of them I'd  still choose over Harry Cochrane. 

 

This will be the same club that sold Hickey onwards to a Serie A club. Both players broke through around the same age - one of them got better and better until he was one of the first names on the teamsheet and is now playing with Bologna, the other is at Montrose.

 

Aye but every single youngster who makes an appearance for the first time is expected to go on and achieve great things, don't you know?!

[132goals1958]

Maybe a bit unfair to blame clubs in terms of the coaching. The game is littered with players who for some reason or other never realised their early potential. I recall in the late fifties a centre forward (Hugh Goldie) who starred for Scottish schoolboys at Wembley. He was sought after by top clubs in England but signed for us only to end up playing at the lower levels. There must be numerous equivalents throughout the game. Tommy Harrison and Paul O Brien spring to mind who I initially thought would go far. If Harry Cochrane hasn't made an impact on loan maybe it is a result of him peaking at an early stage of his career.  Disappointing but probably it occurs with most clubs.

[Captain Canada]

Good luck to him. I hope he gets the right move and can play every week. 

[Haken]

There appears to be a gap between on the brink of breaking through and being ready to be a regular member of the first team squad.  The club appears to feel that loan spells is the way to fill that gap - I have no real view and we're not the only club who goes down this route.  I'm pretty sure the phrase 'gain experience of the men's game' has been used.

 

Whatever, for our Academy to be successful, it needs to produce evidence of success, and I'm not sure we're seeing that in sufficient quantity.

[rudi must stay]

IMO think Scholes at Man Utd. You have to have the guts to play that way and we haven't. Another example is Gauld at Dundee United, they are not physical players they are creative. It is why Walker starts on the bench, we don't have the guts to play that way from the start, that's what I think anyway. I hate criticising Hearts but I hate it about us. It is a pathetic league (even the SPL is) play with a bit of swagger and style instead of fear.

 

Cochrane will go on and have a nice career, I'm obviously not saying he's as good as Scholes but his passing range reminded me of him.

 

[rudi must stay]

15 minutes ago, Homme said:

The club's fault

 

He wasn't good enough period. We've had some pish in midfield recently but almost every one of them I'd  still choose over Harry Cochrane. 

 

This will be the same club that sold Hickey onwards to a Serie A club. Both players broke through around the same age - one of them got better and better until he was one of the first names on the teamsheet and is now playing with Bologna, the other is at Montrose.

 

From what I saw he's not a clogger so he never played

[siegementality]

3 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Maybe they weren't given assurances of first team football, maybe they were told we expect big improvements from them.

Maybe they didn't want to dedicate everything to making it at Hearts and opted to choose an easier path? Just maybe....that's why they turned down deals?

Or maybe they don’t have faith in the clubs ability to develop them, maybe they were told they wouldn’t get near the first team squad because the manager prefers to play ‘established players’, maybe they weren’t convinced by the managers lack of tactics, poor style of play, maybe they see players who appear to be going through the motions getting picked before them, maybe they aren’t happy with the coaching, maybe they don’t have faith in they way their development is being handled, maybe the club aren’t forward thinking g enough, maybe, maybe, maybe.

 

So, let’s forget the maybes and concentrate on the facts. Both players have been offered new contracts. One has turned it done and is leaving. The other has turned it down and thus far has failed to agree new terms. No maybes there.

[Francis Albert]

This season should have been the ideal opportunity to see if he could make it at Hearts. He could have had a decent amount of game time playing with players of the standard (in theory at least) he has been (or should have been) developed for many years to play with. I don't know whether he has an attitude problem. But if he couldn't get game time in the first team this season then he has made from his perspective the right decision.

 

I hope he makes it and in the words of our great leader "rams it down our throats".

 

I think Hickey got out just in time.

[jambo19]

Not surprised by this and their could be any of injuries, management, attitude as an excuse but it is concerning that this is the latest in a trend at the club.

 

We had players breakthrough at 16 and hold their own but the clubs aim was to loan them out under the watch of a loans manager whilst signings White, Edwards, Lee, Burns, Clare, Bozanic, Garuccio and countless others to take their place until they were deemed ready.

 

The only issue with that is the player becomes another teams problem, are we really saying loaning out creative midfielders like Smith or Cochrane to Arbroath or Montrose is a good fit? These clubs are reliant on ugly but effective football to survive in the league. Hardly a place for a youngster to show his ability as a technical passer. Pep noticed that with Foden and managed his development without a loan. 

 

If Smith and Irving leave for nothing and others fail to get minutes in the first team we've got to ask questions of the development pathway at the club and the lack of management or coaching to get the most out of these lads.

[Gordon Ramsay]

Talent there but the physical attributes lacking. 

 

He'll probably make a career in the game but I'd be astounded if he ever plays for a club bigger than Hearts. 

[jr ewing]

Ànother academy success. 

[CloustonHMFC]

1 minute ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Talent there but the physical attributes lacking. 

 

He'll probably make a career in the game but I'd be astounded if he ever plays for a club bigger than Hearts. 

Won't go higher than a St Johnstone or Hamilton, and I'm being optimistic. 

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

This season should have been the ideal opportunity to see if he could make it at Hearts. He could have had a decent amount of game time playing with players of the standard (in theory at least) he has been (or should have been) developed for many years to play with. I don't know whether he has an attitude problem. But if he couldn't get game time in the first team this season then he has made from his perspective the right decision.

 

I hope he makes it and in the words of our great leader "rams it down our throats".

 

I think Hickey got out just in time.

 

Jesus Christ! You do know that Cochrane couldn’t get in a poorer Dunfermline team last year? But you think he should have been playing for us this year? He has/had a major attitude problem...Only time will tell if he gets that sorted out. You CAN NOT do everything for a young player. Not every young player makes it that can be due to injury , attitude , application , personal reasons. 
 

12 minutes ago, Barack said:

Tell that to Craig Gordon.

Or Harry Stone he seems to be doing fine.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

No. Because Cochrane's failed to even grasp an opportunity at a lower level, where it should be easier for him to dictate things. Despite his physical weaknesses. Which, unless he starts on hormone growth therapies, he's not going to shake off. He's gotten taller. That's it.

 

Irving's agent, imo, is just trying to rinse us. So again, and his last few performances which have been abysmal (confirmed by virtually anyone on here watching the games) no, I'll not miss Irving either.

 

Our recruitment in the past has been suspect to say the least. But Savage is the one who's basically making the call on this, in terms of summer recruitment and future roles. We've offered Cochrane X. He thinks he can get Y elsewhere. 

 

He might. Perhaps he wants to try the USA Nicholson route. Will many clubs be interested in him, of a certain calibre there, or here in the UK, despite failing whilst on loan? Hmm.

 

He's got enough to say for himself. Maybe his attitude will change & he proves everyone wrong at Hearts. Or...gasp...here too. I won't be losing sleep over it.

 

 

HGH is a bit expensive for a poorly paid football player mate 😉 Impressive stuff if used properly though. 

[sadj]

Just now, Barack said:

Harry would've been fine this year. Side...side...back...side...tackled...fall over...

🤣

 

Aye but he played in midfield for a Montrose team that won 7-0 one game. So by that reasoning anyone who played in the 6-1 win over QoTS(higher level so 6goals is acceptable) should be playing everyweek and we should bust our asses to keep them at the club forever

[SuperstarSteve]

49 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

yeah same happened with Chris Cadden but that was more shady as went straight on loan to Oxford United,

Dundee UTD want him. I know much. Maybe they have promised him first team football. 

[heartsfc_fan]

I'm with Barack on this. Cochrane has had opportunities on loan but hasn't stepped up.

 

What sort of development fee would we get?

[hmfc_liam06]

10 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Or maybe they don’t have faith in the clubs ability to develop them, maybe they were told they wouldn’t get near the first team squad because the manager prefers to play ‘established players’, maybe they weren’t convinced by the managers lack of tactics, poor style of play, maybe they see players who appear to be going through the motions getting picked before them, maybe they aren’t happy with the coaching, maybe they don’t have faith in they way their development is being handled, maybe the club aren’t forward thinking g enough, maybe, maybe, maybe.

 

So, let’s forget the maybes and concentrate on the facts. Both players have been offered new contracts. One has turned it done and is leaving. The other has turned it down and thus far has failed to agree new terms. No maybes there.

 

You have no idea the reason why, but don't let me stop you peddling that it's somehow the clubs fault as some sort of fact 👍

[Japan Jambo]

45 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Harry’s lack of development from a hugely talented 16 year old who stood toe to toe with Celtic to become a bit part player in the lowest league is symbolic of the club’s ability to progress youth into the first team. 

 

Spot on. There should be a stewards enquiry here; we need to fully learn what went wrong and understand better why we are unable to progress players with talent through to our first team. 

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Dundee UTD want him. I know much. Maybe they have promised him first team football. 

Mellon is supposedly away end of the season so maybe they are going to slash their wage bill and ship out the expensive earners. Cant live at 133% wages to turnover ratio for long. He hasnt stepped up at Dunfy or been a stand out at Montrose so it would be a huge gamble.

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, Barack said:

Wasn't he kept out the team by another kid they brought in? 

 

Anyway, **** it. I've said my bit.

lol enjoy the Welsh sun and just wait for the multiple Cochrane threads that appear when he gets a 6/10 game

 

4 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

You have no idea the reason why, but don't let me stop you peddling that it's somehow the clubs fault as some sort of fact 👍

Mental isnt it 🤣🙈

[Byyy The Light]

59 minutes ago, siegementality said:

I’m not convinced that sending young players out on loan to lower league teams is the way forward. It seems a very old fashioned notion and one that hasn’t reaped any rewards for some considerable time. 

 

Maybe if we had a manager who didn’t shite the bed every week he might have developed a few youngsters this year. We are wasting our time investing in an academy with Neilson in charge. He simply doesn’t have the managerial nouse to get results and nurture young talent at the same time. 

9 times out of 10 it’s a last resort to see if a player will come to anything. It’s not to develop them. A couple of my mates were at Hearts as youths and as soon as a loan comes along they all realise they’re surplus and pretty much chuck it.

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

I think it is a wise decision by him. For whatever reason players don't prosper at Hearts. 

 

FTFY.

 

Shame, thought he looked an excellent prospect. Very slow and weak though and doesn't appear to have done much to rectify that.

 

Think he'll do well somewhere else and re-appear in the SPL in a few years as a decent player. 

 

Wish him all the best.

[Jeffros Furios]

Just like lots of other young players he wasn't good enough , I don't see how that's the club's fault .

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

9 times out of 10 it’s a last resort to see if a player will come to anything. It’s not to develop them. A couple of my mates were at Hearts as youths and as soon as a loan comes along they all realise they’re surplus and pretty much chuck it.

 

That either shows how we're doing it at Hearts is wrong or that the players we are bringing through have the wrong attitude.

 

Loaning players out can be great for their development.

[Cruyff]

Said this in another thread. Cochrane is a talented ball player, who's best position is as a playmaking midfielder. There was no team willing to play Harry as their main midfielder at 18-20 in that role. Instead he was being asked to go box to box, which athletically he is unsuited too, much like it was with O. Lee. 

He needs to find a team that plays good football that will make him their main man. I'd probably say moving to League 1 or 2 in England would give him the opportunity to show his talent as he'd get wads of time on the ball.