Reconstruction

[ri Alban]

I used to be all for a top division of 16/18 and a 2nd division 24, but they've had their chance. Now... I'd relegate 3 with us going up. 10 team no split league. 

[gregzy2k7]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It needs an 11-1 vote to get rid of it 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🙈?!?!

This is the absolute root of all the problems, get this voting structure too feck! It should be 8-4 at worst.

Until this is sorted, nothing will change.

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

This is the absolute root of all the problems, get this voting structure too feck! It should be 8-4 at worst.

Until this is sorted, nothing will change.

Indeed, but it won’t. 

[Newton51]

No relegation for Alloa or Brechin?

[Newton51]

 

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Newton51 said:

 

 

Just a rehash of the story from the other week. 

Should be a non starter given the clubs who are unhappy with the proposal including at least one who said they were disappointed to learn of it via the press.

 

As usual under Doncaster's leadership the league is a shambles.

[DETTY29]

SCOTLAND NEEDS LESS CLUBS IN THE PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE SET UP.

[3fingersreid]

Anything that stops Brechin being demoted needs to be opposed , they must go down 

[Harry Potter]

21 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed, but it won’t. 

Everything these clowns that run our game do is a farce, the chief on 400,000 a year , what a joke.

[Japan Jambo]

how about top league of 20 with a twist;

 

Top two play a best of three, one home, one away, decider at Hampden.

Bottom four, have a mini league at neutral venues, bottom two go down.

 

38 games for most

If the ugly sisters are indeed the best Sky get 5 OF games

2 worst teams go down

 

alternatively we could just let Rangers and Celtic play against each other every week and the rest of us can get on with it.

[Skivingatwork]

Should be two top leagues comprising of full time clubs.  That’s the minimum standard for being part of a ‘professional’ league.

 

Below that a pyramid system of regional leagues. (last Tuesday Stranraer traveled to Elgin FFS)

 

TV deals for the top 2 leagues.

 

It’s not rocket science but the teams in the lower leagues won’t vote for it, neither will the tin pot clubs in the bottom six of the premiership.

[Mundaydog]

Minimum of 16 top league. Play each other twice - 1 home, 1 away

2 up - 2 down

 

One full time league below that of 10-14 teams. Number dependant on those who are willing to commit to full time football

 

All below that (including highland league) into regional part time leagues (North / South)

 

Ditch the league cup mini pre-season 'league', make those games over 2 legs.

Give the smaller part time teams opportunity of getting a bit of money from the visit of a bigger team.

 

Over the period of 3 or 4 seasons gradually move the season start earlier through July - June - May and so on until we are playing through the summer properly.

No English premiership on TV from mid May to start of August. Scottish football can then sell itself on games available on

Friday 7.45 ko

Saturday 12.30 & 5.30

Sunday 12.30, 3.00 & 5.30

Monday 7.45

Wednesday 7.45

Also means those teams in the European early stages are effectively mid season when those games kick off in July 

 

 

[Tokyo Drifter]

On 10/04/2021 at 23:23, LarrysRightFoot said:

First off I’m 100% for reconstruction, we need bigger leagues. I wasn’t swayed into this thinking due to the situation we were in last season, it’s been my opinion for as long as I can remember. 
 

However, if the idea was floated again now. What would everyone else’s thoughts be? 
 

F?ck everyone else, they shafted us?

or

Its still the right thing for the game in Scotland? 

Let's not be churlish, we're bigger than that. If it's the best thing for the game, we vote for it.

[Wee Mikey]

16 minutes ago, Mundaydog said:

Minimum of 16 top league. Play each other twice - 1 home, 1 away

2 up - 2 down

 

One full time league below that of 10-14 teams. Number dependant on those who are willing to commit to full time football

 

All below that (including highland league) into regional part time leagues (North / South)

 

Ditch the league cup mini pre-season 'league', make those games over 2 legs.

Give the smaller part time teams opportunity of getting a bit of money from the visit of a bigger team.

 

Over the period of 3 or 4 seasons gradually move the season start earlier through July - June - May and so on until we are playing through the summer properly.

No English premiership on TV from mid May to start of August. Scottish football can then sell itself on games available on

Friday 7.45 ko

Saturday 12.30 & 5.30

Sunday 12.30, 3.00 & 5.30

Monday 7.45

Wednesday 7.45

Also means those teams in the European early stages are effectively mid season when those games kick off in July 

 

 

 

☝ ... If Doncaster was doing his job and not merely a puppet for whichever Glasgow 'institution' was currently holding sway.

[Doc Rob]

On 12/04/2021 at 07:21, gregzy2k7 said:

This is the absolute root of all the problems, get this voting structure too feck! It should be 8-4 at worst.

Until this is sorted, nothing will change.

It’ll never happen now, sadly. The chance was there when Sevco were out of the SPL, but now they are back, there is zero chance the arse cheeks will ever give up their ability to hold Scottish football to ransom with their effective veto.

 

Think we have Aberdeen to thank for voting the motion down?

[Tazio]

4 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

SCOTLAND NEEDS LESS CLUBS IN THE PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE SET UP.

This all day long. As I posted earlier, Scotland has a smaller population than London but tries to have 4 senior leagues. 

[theo1874]

We need to learn from all the club statements regarding reconstruction last year, so I think that Hearts should release a statement that reads;

"Hearts are in favour of reconstruction, but feel the time is not right to discuss reconstruction"

[Montgomery Brewster]

5 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

Anything that stops Brechin being demoted needs to be opposed , they must go down 

Correct 

[Tazio]

3 minutes ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

Correct 

Brechin have been awful for so many seasons in a row it’s almost unfeasible. All clubs have a bad season now and again, apart from the obvious cash loaded ones up here, but they just keep on being awful. Different players, still awful. New manager, still awful. It’s time to Chuck them and their hedge out the league. 

[Lone Striker]

8 hours ago, Newton51 said:

 

Who'd have thunk it, eh ?   Doncaster & his partners in crime come up with  a win-win all round.   Mulraney and Ferguson get saved, and the Bigot Colts get a foothold in the setup in case their big brothers emigrate to a Euro league.

 

There's plenty aspects of Hearts that we can moan about - but this will go straight to number 1 in my eyes, if we vote for this absurd nonsense.

 

[Mikey1874]

Not sure if we still vote as a Championship club.

 

Article continues to say the key again is the Premiership clubs. Because of their 11-1 vote.

 

Also the original 16 team League 2 Colts proposal which came from a working group that went on for a few months is abandoned. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Mikey1874

[3fingersreid]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Not sure if we still vote as a Championship club.

 

Article continues to say the key again is the Premiership clubs. Because of their 11-1 vote.

 

Also the original 16 team League 2 Colts proposal which came from a working group that went on for a few months is abandoned. 

How did dundee hibs get to vote last year when we were expelled, was it as a championship team or premier league team  ? 
There’s a precedence been set so we should be the same as what they were in terms of voting . 

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, 3fingersreid said:

How did dundee hibs get to vote last year when we were expelled, was it as a championship team or premier league team  ? 
There’s a precedence been set so we should be the same as what they were in terms of voting . 

I think they voted as a top league club as they were up whether or not reconstruction happened. 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

How did dundee hibs get to vote last year when we were expelled, was it as a championship team or premier league team  ? 
There’s a precedence been set so we should be the same as what they were in terms of voting . 

 

Dundee voted as Championship club initially.

 

At some point we became a Championship club. I think after the vote was confirmed. 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

Brechin have been awful for so many seasons in a row it’s almost unfeasible. All clubs have a bad season now and again, apart from the obvious cash loaded ones up here, but they just keep on being awful. Different players, still awful. New manager, still awful. It’s time to Chuck them and their hedge out the league. 

Oi , I Like the Hedge , I had a wee affinity for the Angus clubs as their grounds were all ones I played at regularly as I was learning the game. However as much as I like Glebe Park , I can not stand Brechin now and agree they need to go.  

[DETTY29]

33 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

How did dundee hibs get to vote last year when we were expelled, was it as a championship team or premier league team  ? 
There’s a precedence been set so we should be the same as what they were in terms of voting . 

Championship club to end season on PPG.

 

Premiership team for reconstruction as leagues considered concluded and season finished.

[Weonly151]

7 hours ago, Mundaydog said:

Minimum of 16 top league. Play each other twice - 1 home, 1 away

2 up - 2 down

 

One full time league below that of 10-14 teams. Number dependant on those who are willing to commit to full time football

 

All below that (including highland league) into regional part time leagues (North / South)

 

Ditch the league cup mini pre-season 'league', make those games over 2 legs.

Give the smaller part time teams opportunity of getting a bit of money from the visit of a bigger team.

 

Over the period of 3 or 4 seasons gradually move the season start earlier through July - June - May and so on until we are playing through the summer properly.

No English premiership on TV from mid May to start of August. Scottish football can then sell itself on games available on

Friday 7.45 ko

Saturday 12.30 & 5.30

Sunday 12.30, 3.00 & 5.30

Monday 7.45

Wednesday 7.45

Also means those teams in the European early stages are effectively mid season when those games kick off in July 

 

 

This is the most sensible proposal for reconstruction I have seen. Every part of it makes sense and would benefit Scottish football. One other thing I'd maybe add would be having colt teams if clubs wanted to in the regional leagues. I'd imagine ourselves, Hibs, Aberdeen and the Uglies could provide colt teams which would again only be good for Scottish football. 

[3fingersreid]

44 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I think they voted as a top league club as they were up whether or not reconstruction happened. 

👍🏻

 

42 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Dundee voted as Championship club initially.

 

At some point we became a Championship club. I think after the vote was confirmed. 

It was Utd I was wondering about bud 

 

12 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Championship club to end season on PPG.

 

Premiership team for reconstruction as leagues considered concluded and season finished.

so a bit of both then 😀

[Sussexscot]

On 11/04/2021 at 09:58, martoon said:

 

My thoughts exactly, Tosh.

 

Annoyed me 20+ years ago when the English termed Scottish football as Mickey Mouse but how right they were and are.

 

A league must  be absolutely equal. The same teams, randomly playing each other the same amount of times, home and away. A set programme of fixtures from first day to last. That's why the league winners are declared "champions" and not knockout cup winners.

 

Anything else is a farce. 

 

The initial, unequal, 33 games, the end of season fixtures compiled, deliberately, to suit the OF and other clubs often having an 18-20 home and away split to make sure the OF never do is what makes Scottish football what it is:

 

A sick joke.

Sir

I think you are absolutely on the money there.

 

The current status quo is an absolute disgrace and no wonder we are referred to as a 'Mickey Mouse' or 'Monkey Tennis League'

 

Last seasons debacle highlighted firstly the shambles that is our current football governing body(ies) and secondly the system which, over the years, they have imposed upon Scottish football.

 

Reconstruction is absolutely essential, the split must be unconditionally abandoned and the determination of the future should subsequently be based on the basic realities which are ; 

                                1. Club Status - Full Time professional or otherwise. (without this lesser clubs will never aspire to greater things )

                                2. Facilities (eg. artificial pitch should be a no no , other facilities should be as one would reasonably expect whilst                                          making allowances etc. 

I recognise and accept that there are massive inequalities in football in Scotland, the Ugly Sisters have huge fan support and access to local sponsorship but that is no different perhaps to our situation albeit to a lesser degree in Edinburgh or extrapolated to Aberdeen or Dundee whilst the provincial clubs have no such recourse.

 

Population accounts for much of the aforesaid inequality !

 

 

 

[colinmaroon]

 

I am all for reconstruction but NOT this season!  

 

No get out of jail card for the backstabbers of last season.  

[martoon]

3 minutes ago, Sussexscot said:

Sir

I think you are absolutely on the money there.

 

The current status quo is an absolute disgrace and no wonder we are referred to as a 'Mickey Mouse' or 'Monkey Tennis League'

 

Last seasons debacle highlighted firstly the shambles that is our current football governing body(ies) and secondly the system which, over the years, they have imposed upon Scottish football.

 

Reconstruction is absolutely essential, the split must be unconditionally abandoned and the determination of the future should subsequently be based on the basic realities which are ; 

                                1. Club Status - Full Time professional or otherwise. (without this lesser clubs will never aspire to greater things )

                                2. Facilities (eg. artificial pitch should be a no no , other facilities should be as one would reasonably expect whilst                                          making allowances etc. 

I recognise and accept that there are massive inequalities in football in Scotland, the Ugly Sisters have huge fan support and access to local sponsorship but that is no different perhaps to our situation albeit to a lesser degree in Edinburgh or extrapolated to Aberdeen or Dundee whilst the provincial clubs have no such recourse.

 

Population accounts for much of the aforesaid inequality !

 

 

 

 

👍

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

I am all for reconstruction but NOT this season!  

 

No get out of jail card for the backstabbers of last season.  

 

Correct.

 

Reconstruction, a good one, is long overdue but only with a full season's notice.

 

Last season was a completely different story, of course. Exceptional circumstances when, first do no harm, should have been the starting point. But no, It was all about Celtic's tainted 9iar, Doncaster and other clubs self interest and petty hatred (FTH).

 

Other nations scrapped relegations/demotions in this spirit but not our sham of a league.

 

No way should any club dodge the fate they deserve in May. Especially as we were punished when we shouldn't have been.

[Deevers]

I hope we vote against this no matter what.  No way should we be helping the Old Firm broaden their footprint in this league. All for reconstruction, but reconstruction that actually pushes the game here forward. We need to get rid of the dead wood. Two leagues of 16 -  no promotion into the top league unless full time professional.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Deevers

[Rods]

League reconstruction will happen and it will be forced due to OF, us, Hibs and Aberdeen leaving the league. Until then the SPFL/Smaller team OF perceived reliance will keep the status qou.

[martoon]

32 minutes ago, Rods said:

League reconstruction will happen and it will be forced due to OF, us, Hibs and Aberdeen leaving the league. Until then the SPFL/Smaller team OF perceived reliance will keep the status qou.

 

Any idea when are where we're going, Rods? 😊

[Doc Rob]

I am against any introduction of colts teams into the setup anywhere. But what I am especially against is for this opportunity to be offered to the arse cheeks and nobody else. What possible justification could there be for this? 

[Rods]

51 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Any idea when are where we're going, Rods? 😊

 

You would hope sooner rather than later.

 

Scotttish football is broken beyond repair.

[Lone Striker]

1 minute ago, Rods said:

 

You would hope sooner rather than later.

 

Scotttish football is broken beyond repair.

Where do you think we are going though, Rods ?

[JJ93]

16 teams in the top league; play each team twice - once at home, once away. No split. 

 

This will create more competition, more rivalry and a proper race for the title outside of the OF.

 

As for second league, unsure. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by JJ93

[upgotheheads]

6 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

16 teams in the top league; play each team twice - once at home, once away. No split. 

 

This will create more competition, more rivalry and a proper race for the title outside of the OF.

 

As for second league, unsure. 

 

A 30 game competition?

[Lone Striker]

31 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

I am against any introduction of colts teams into the setup anywhere. But what I am especially against is for this opportunity to be offered to the arse cheeks and nobody else. What possible justification could there be for this? 

Its the SPFL ....... no justification required. 😠

[Rods]

20 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Where do you think we are going though, Rods ?

 

There has been an atlantic league being mooted.

 

I reckon when the Belgian/Holland thing advances and the OF dont get their invite to the top English table then something will happen. 

 

The colts thing is just the beggining.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Rods said:

 

There has been an atlantic league being mooted.

 

I reckon when the Belgian/Holland thing advances and the OF dont get their invite to the top English table then something will happen. 

 

The colts thing is just the beggining.

Are the Dutch into it? I know in the past they've not been too interested in the concept but I haven't been keeping up with Dutch football

[Rods]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Are the Dutch into it? I know in the past they've not been too interested in the concept but I haven't been keeping up with Dutch football

 

Not seen much about it since mid march when the Belgian teams agreed it would be possible.

 

There will never be change in Scotland unless its a seismic change ie teams moving leagues. The SPFL think they need the OF games 4 times to appease Sky and clubs like St Johnstone etc require the OF fans through the door. We as a club have seen the self interest of scottish football chairman first hand.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Rods said:

 

Not seen much about it since mid march when the Belgian teams agreed it would be possible.

 

There will never be change in Scotland unless its a seismic change ie teams moving leagues. The SPFL think they need the OF games 4 times to appease Sky and clubs like St Johnstone etc require the OF fans through the door. We as a club have seen the self interest of scottish football chairman first hand.

It's always been something the Belgians were more into, they're the smaller country, but Holland have lost a few teams in recent years so I could see how they'd be more receptive these days.

[Lone Striker]

18 minutes ago, Rods said:

 

There has been an atlantic league being mooted.

 

I reckon when the Belgian/Holland thing advances and the OF dont get their invite to the top English table then something will happen. 

 

The colts thing is just the beggining.

You may be overplaying that exercise in kite-flying.   As the climate emergency takes increasing hold of people's attention, I very much doubt  popular opinion will tolerate  the regular air travel required for such a thing.

[Super_Hans]

We're constantly told gate money is worth about 50% in revenue streams to most clubs.

 

A 16 team league with only 15 home games is a complete non-starter.

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, JJ93 said:

16 teams in the top league; play each team twice - once at home, once away. No split. 

 

This will create more competition, more rivalry and a proper race for the title outside of the OF.

 

As for second league, unsure. 

30 games are not enough. 

[SomethingAboutObua]

If teams were willing to drop to 15 home games and only 2 OF home games then 16 team top flight would be ideal, absolutely no chance of teams dropping home games AND Old Firm games though unless we brought in some sort of top 6 title playoff or massively improved our TV deal.

Ideal league for me now though is the 16 top flight, all teams must be full time professionals, min. capacity 5,000 etc. 2 up 2 down, maybe a playoff place as well

10 team second tier, with some sort of minimum that 75% of your players should be full time professionals within the club, in higher education or under 23. Put in a single relegation playoff spot to the league below.  Bit controversial, but the league should be open to applications from teams below to join if they are able to become full time professional outfits without winning the 3rd tier. If anyone is forcibly relegated from the top flight, they join the second tier but are banned from promotion for X years. 

THATS IT FOR THE NEW SPFL PROFESSIONAL LEAGUES. NO PART TIMER 3RD TIER. 

20 Team SEPARATE national league below that
Regionalised and re-regionalised tiers below that

Teams in all leagues can reject promotion f they win the league and feel stepping up doesn't benefit them. I always think Auchinleck Talbot wouldn't be so locally popular if they were sitting about as a midtable League 2 side instead of repeatedly winning regional trophies.

Teams 2 tiers below get home advantage over their opposition until the quarter finals. League Cup replaced with a League Cup for each set up, ie top 2 tiers and the lower tiers are separated. Winners can play each other in a pre-season opener maybe.

[Tazio]

St Johnstone give most of their ground to the OF

Kilmarnock give most of their ground to the OF

Motherwell built a big fancy new stand at their ground to increase capacity. It’s where the OF sit. 
Smaller teams in the cup give most of their grounds to the OF. 

 

A bit of theme here. These teams won’t vote to lose their golden goose of a few close to sell outs a year.