Joe Savage.

[Jambo in Bathgate]

2 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

The change in formation was self evidently to accommodate getting Souttar back in and keep Smith close to him. 
 

Are you saying playing Souttar was savages bright idea? you don’t think Robbie Neilson (who signed him for hearts originally) would’ve already wanted to play Souttar by now? 

 

Haring never just said he’s been fit for months you’ve taken what he said out of context. He said he was fit but was awful against Dundee when given his opportunity. He accepted that was below his standards. And after that, the team won games so he found it tough to get back in. Then after the bounce games was feeling good but got his red card and suspended which set him back another couple of weeks. So, put what “he said” in context of everything he said. 
 

 

People like to put their own negative spin on everything on here as long as it suits their Robbie out agenda. He is here for at least the first round of SPL fixtures. Haring got sent off for his first mistimed tackle unlike the Dundee player who cleaned out Naismith. Last night also he was booked for a tackle but the Alloa guy who fouled Naismith wasn’t prior to that incident. Henderson last night provided the drive we have missed since Ginnelly and Haring showed Irving how to play forward passes. 

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That's not what the OP said. He doesn't know what was discussed. 

I'm not remotely interested in what the OP said.

I was referring to the choice of words.

[RENE]

Over the last three or four games Henderson has been the only one showing energy and drive.  He got his reward last night.  Thought Haring was back to his old self and his through ball for Henderson s goal was sublime.  Also good to see Souter showing what we have missed and his emotion sitting in the stand after being substituted nearly brought a tear to my eye. 

[Auldbenches]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Agreed.

Some people are obsessed by formations.  You play the best formation that the available players allow and that could change frequently depending on injuries/suspensions.  I defy any manager to have played last night's formation in earlier games without Soapy, Haring and yes, even Henderson, and still expect to get similar results.  The problem seems to be a reluctance to give Neilson credit and although I am certainly not his number one fan he deserves full marks for last night.  If these performances continue I might have to hold up my hands and become his No 1 fan

Good point about being obsessed by formations.  I remember Bilic getting interviewed after Croatia beating England and asked about his formation.  He said what you said, that it was nothing to do with how they chose to set up, but just the best team to beat them.  

This formation thing seems to be a British football thing.  

Are other countries obsessed as we are about it? 

It was refreshing last night, whatever the reasons.  

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Auldbenches

[Silverwolf]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

2 wins in 9 , oot the cups to minnows and the entire club in crisis as a result. 

"the new management structure is working then"... is it ? 

It's still miles away from where it needs to be. 

And for all the praise heaped on the performance last night everyone seems to be overlooking the poor opening 30 minutes when the defence still looked like a collective bombscare. 

A good performance last night but a long way to go. 

It is amazing how much of the improvement in performance is down to confidence and self belief, both as individuals and as a team. Up until the first goal, although HMFC were the better side, Alloa were still in the game. Everything changed after the first goal.
 

As fans, we have to take some responsibility for ensuring we give encouragement and praise to the team when it is needed as well as merited. It genuinely helps.

 

We have not been able to do much cheering due to the lockdown this season and a section of the fan base seem to have resorted to vitriolic ranting on social media. The team and management do read it.
 

Whilst I understand the frustrations that are behind this, and in someways agree with the concerns regarding the tactics and football leadership, do not underestimate how much damage is done to the squad and individual players confidence when they read the personal and abusive bile that is directed at them from some quarters.

 

Last night, was a convincing win. Irrespective of the quality of the opposition, we beat the team facing us. We have secured promotion convincingly. Lets hope we can build on this and carry that self assurance forward.

[Tennant's 6's]

3 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

So the new management structure is working then.

 

That's good to know.

It is to an extent. I've a feeling that we'll do well with Joe Savage.

Murray, Arnett,  Budge I'm not so sure..

[Tennant's 6's]

3 hours ago, kila said:

He’s not the director of football though. He’s sporting director and is the same level as Robbie and both report to Budge. Would be different if he were on the board and Robbie reported to him. 
 

But if Savage is rocking the boat then great, he isn’t a yes man and is just what we need. 

This is the key thing for me.  Would don't need anymore drones who just keep the peace whilst everything turns to shit 

[Tennant's 6's]

3 hours ago, droid said:

If I was Savage I’d be more than a little miffed if I recommended a box to box energetic midfielder who likes a goal and then the manager decided to play him everywhere other than his natural position.

Did the same thing not happen with murray, apparently, recommending players in the spl to Levein who just dingy'd them..

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Tennant's 6's said:

It is to an extent. I've a feeling that we'll do well with Joe Savage.

Murray, Arnett,  Budge I'm not so sure..

To what extent has it been working?  What changes have been made?

[Tennant's 6's]

1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

Don't disagree with your summary of things. Halliday looked more comfortable in the wing back position although he still has a tendancy to want to go backwards and sideways.

 

Credit to him though because it was great ball for Boyce.

 

Nice to see McEneff being able to do what he was signed to do and get forward and great that he got on the score sheet.

 

It was a marked improvement on how we have played for some time however the acid test will be how we perform in our next game.

 

With it being away from home I hope Robbie doesn't revert to his don't lose mentality and tinker with the formation and just goes out there to win the game outright.

 

Teams will have noticed how crucial Haring was to our performance last night and he will be receiving special attention guaranteed.

 

It will be interesting to see how he copes and how it affects the rest of the team. Robbie and Savage should be making a playmaker type midfielder their top priority in the close season because when Haring is out we need a good replacement or someone to play alongside Haring. 

Good points. 

It'll be the acid test for Haring, as if he's back to his best, he'll deal with it no problem. 

He's immense in there when he's on his game.

Could see the relief in McEnuff face as well, like a weight had been lifted. 

Need to continue in the vain though 

[wavydavy]

3 minutes ago, Tennant's 6's said:

Good points. 

It'll be the acid test for Haring, as if he's back to his best, he'll deal with it no problem. 

He's immense in there when he's on his game.

Could see the relief in McEnuff face as well, like a weight had been lifted. 

Need to continue in the vain though 

 

It's a shame we have to wait 10 days for our next game. I am sure the players would have wanted to play asap after last night. 

[Tennant's 6's]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

To what extent has it been working?  What changes have been made?

Nothing is working just now, clearly, hasn't done for yrs.

 

But, if, he's had words within the club about not playing some of his signings recommendations in their correct positions, if he or JJ have let it be known that what they've seen isn't acceptable, then that's got to be a good thing, if they're being listened to. 

 

Like you say, it's still a mess, poor signings overall, lack of Academy players. Depends if the Board are serious about getting the Club to where we should be though, and not accepting mediocrity any longer. 

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Tennant's 6's said:

Nothing is working just now, clearly, hasn't done for yrs.

 

But, if, he's had words within the club about not playing some of his signings recommendations in their correct positions, if he or JJ have let it be known that what they've seen isn't acceptable, then that's got to be a good thing, if they're being listened to. 

 

Like you say, it's still a mess, poor signings overall, lack of Academy players. Depends if the Board are serious about getting the Club to where we should be though, and not accepting mediocrity any longer. 

I asked what changes he had made and I didn't say the club is still a mess (nor the opposite).

Which Savage signing recommendations is Neilson not playing?

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

People like to put their own negative spin on everything on here as long as it suits their Robbie out agenda. He is here for at least the first round of SPL fixtures. Haring got sent off for his first mistimed tackle unlike the Dundee player who cleaned out Naismith. Last night also he was booked for a tackle but the Alloa guy who fouled Naismith wasn’t prior to that incident. Henderson last night provided the drive we have missed since Ginnelly and Haring showed Irving how to play forward passes. 

Are we allowed to ponder why Henderson hasn’t been played there before now?

[JamboAl]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Are we allowed to ponder why Henderson hasn’t been played there before now?

You could have campaigned for him to be in (more often) before last night.  Did you?

[Deevers]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I don't understand what you mean by "properly".  The presence of Haring last night gave him a freedom and belief he didn't have before.  It's not a question of playing him "properly" but more the availability of certain players to complement his game.  If a Haring type player is not there how would you ask him to play "properly"?  It's a bit like asking a flying winger to play properly even when he gets no service.

Only that to date he’s hardly had a chance playing to his strengths. He’s been used on the right of midfield and as the holding midfielder on occasion. Last night he was allowed to play his natural game in the centre of midfield and complimented by Haring in there too, I thought he looked the part. The guy was brought to us as a box to box central midfielder and at last he’s being deployed to his strengths.

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Only that to date he’s hardly had a chance playing to his strengths. He’s been used on the right of midfield and as the holding midfielder on occasion. Last night he was allowed to play his natural game in the centre of midfield and complimented by Haring in there too, I thought he looked the part. The guy was brought to us as a box to box central midfielder and at last he’s being deployed to his strengths.

My view is that it has nothing to do with "properly".

 He did well last night because of Haring's contribution and if he had played without Haring do you think he would have been anywhere near so effective in what you describe as his natural position?  Teams are constructed "properly" on the basis of what is best for the side and not necessarily what is best for an individual player.  Even using the same system and the same players tactics often need to change from game  to game as there is another team on the field trying to win as well.

All this "properly" shite is just a dig at the manager/club.

[johnthomas]

49 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Are we allowed to ponder why Henderson hasn’t been played there before now?

He has and often been anonymous . As said by a few confidence appears to be his problem .

Get over that and he'll be a decent player

[Debut 4]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

My view is that it has nothing to do with "properly".

 He did well last night because of Haring's contribution and if he had played without Haring do you think he would have been anywhere near so effective in what you describe as his natural position?  Teams are constructed "properly" on the basis of what is best for the side and not necessarily what is best for an individual player.  Even using the same system and the same players tactics often need to change from game  to game as there is another team on the field trying to win as well.

All this "properly" shite is just a dig at the manager/club.

What?  You don’t think players have been played out of position over the months?   Suddenly Haring is a magician and making others play well?  

It all goes into the mix.  Normally playing players where they are most comfortable and have proven to be most effective gets the best from them.
 

Again, the knock on effect is normally positive as players thrive , their minds are more comfortable with their role and feel more motivated.  Why would tactics need to change game to game as much if you play players in their best role?  Do you move centre backs around to suit the opposition?  
 

There’s too much pre-game tinkering with teams in football now. I believe in tactical changes in-game once the manager gets a view of how the match is panning out and if it’s required, but you’re half way there if you just play players where they’ve been most effective for most of their careers to that point. The first step to an unhappy player is playing them in an alien role. 
 

 

[Pasquale for King]

18 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

He has and often been anonymous . As said by a few confidence appears to be his problem .

Get over that and he'll be a decent player

Not up front from the start he hasn’t, and he’s only played when the team are struggling, usually off the bench at right wing. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

You could have campaigned for him to be in (more often) before last night.  Did you?

All ****ing season 

[ford donald]

17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

All ****ing season 

 

He always looked if he lacked confidence,maybe they have been working on that with him,last night he showed he can do it,that should bring him on a lot.

[mitch41]

If I was Joe Savage I’d give Robbie Neilson a few pointers on how to prepare your squad for a game against Alloa, Bora Rangers, Queen of the South etc. One of them would be :    Obviously having all the training facilities at Riccarton are a waste of time for these players so what you do is take them along to places like Roseburn Park, Clery field, or Balgreen and have a kick about. Another would be on a Tuesday and a Thursday training starts 2pm at the running track at Balgreen then at 5 pm a chippy supper followed by 7pm concentrating on passing, crossing, defending, attacking, shooting and team work.      Yes it does sound like something Brian Clough would do and he was a genius.  Ok this may be way over the top but Hearts getting beat by these teams in the Cups and League has damaged the Club, our reputation as a team and maybe worst of all sickened our fabulous supporters.

[john thomas]

35 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not up front from the start he hasn’t, and he’s only played when the team are struggling, usually off the bench at right wing. 

He has been up front [or moved during game] . Think he can be [has been] effective wide right 

Again main point is his confidence . Wouldn't bet on him being top notch for us but always thought he had something

[Finlay James]

The difference last night was the right attitude and everyone knowing what they were supposed to be doing.  

 

Fair play to whomever made it happen.

[soonbe110]

6 hours ago, StevenNaismith said:

I know there was a meeting with JS, RN and some senior players on Monday. No idea what was said obviously but it clearly has had an affect when you look at the personnel and shape changes last night.

Along the lines of - we will both be here next season, if you guys want to be here as well it’s time you, and your team-mates, started putting in the required amount of effort. It was interesting last night that the starting  11, for once, comprised mostly of the ones we know will be here next season. Gordon, Smith, Soutar, Halliday, McEneff, Haring, Boyce, Gnando, Henderson. Even two of the subs GMS, Walker are both here next season. Only question marks I had were Halkett, Naisy and Logan. 
No game time  last night for Berra, White, Irving, Kastaneer, Popescu, Damour, Frear. Doubt we will see any of them again other than a token farewell period for Berra 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Tennant's 6's said:

Did the same thing not happen with murray, apparently, recommending players in the spl to Levein who just dingy'd them..

Majority of recommendations rejected. A number of players rejected by scout signed by manager. That’s the way it was. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Are we allowed to ponder why Henderson hasn’t been played there before now?

Don’t believe you have ever suggested Henderson should be starting games. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Don’t believe you have ever suggested Henderson should be starting games. 

Check my posts I’ve been saying youngsters like him and Moore should’ve been the playing much more often, especially when we have the oldest squad in WORLD FOOTBALL. 
Another apologist going back on ignore. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Check my posts I’ve been saying youngsters like him and Moore should’ve been the playing much more often, especially when we have the oldest squad in WORLD FOOTBALL. 
Another apologist going back on ignore. 

But not specifically Henderson up front which was the discussion topic. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Gambo - I think it is a bit myopic in this day and age to think or state that if a manager asks for, gets without asking, or sets up a session with his coaching staff, his director of recruitment, and some senior players to get thoughts on what is going wrong, how can it be improved etc etc and he takes some of that advice on board that that makes him a shite manager.

 

Not defending him but you can’t on the one hand say that Levein was arrogant and stubborn and never listened to anyone and that was one of his main problems then slate Neilson where - if he has - discussed things with senior members of the football staff and changed a few things accordingly.

 

And I am not saying this means he should stay but you get the point.

 

Done properly and by the right players them taking on responsibility and/or having adult conversations with the coaches resulting in change and improved performance should be considered a good thing.

 

England might not have won the rugby World Cup without player intervention. Does that make Woodward a shite rugby coach?

Edited April 10, 2021 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Agentjambo]

9 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Majority of recommendations rejected. A number of players rejected by scout signed by manager. That’s the way it was. 

Including John McGinn.

[soonbe110]

Just now, Agentjambo said:

Including John McGinn.

Significant number who went on to do well elsewhere. Mr Murray is much maligned on here, a lot of it unfair and based on zero knowledge of the hiring process and decisions 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

You could have campaigned for him to be in (more often) before last night.  Did you?

👋👋 I did

[jr ewing]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Significant number who went on to do well elsewhere. Mr Murray is much maligned on here, a lot of it unfair and based on zero knowledge of the hiring process and decisions 

Look who we've signed partially on his recommendations. ITK on this one. 

[Agentjambo]

12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Significant number who went on to do well elsewhere. Mr Murray is much maligned on here, a lot of it unfair and based on zero knowledge of the hiring process and decisions 

Typical arrogant Levein.

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Look who we've signed partially on his recommendations. ITK on this one. 

Like any scout he will have recommended duds. Some on here blame him for every dud we have signed. Never as black and white as that. Vanacek certainly wasn’t one of his. 

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

If I was Joe Savage I’d give Robbie Neilson a few pointers on how to prepare your squad for a game against Alloa, Bora Rangers, Queen of the South etc. One of them would be :    Obviously having all the training facilities at Riccarton are a waste of time for these players so what you do is take them along to places like Roseburn Park, Clery field, or Balgreen and have a kick about. Another would be on a Tuesday and a Thursday training starts 2pm at the running track at Balgreen then at 5 pm a chippy supper followed by 7pm concentrating on passing, crossing, defending, attacking, shooting and team work.      Yes it does sound like something Brian Clough would do and he was a genius.  Ok this may be way over the top but Hearts getting beat by these teams in the Cups and League has damaged the Club, our reputation as a team and maybe worst of all sickened our fabulous supporters.

If our support are so fabulous they won't let a few setbacks stop them renewing their STs. 

[The_razors_edge]

13 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Like any scout he will have recommended duds. Some on here blame him for every dud we have signed. Never as black and white as that. Vanacek certainly wasn’t one of his. 

Nor was Ikpeazu or Gavin Reilly

[Jeffros Furios]

I see the residenk ITK mouthpiece for the club is slavering pish as usual .

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

This thread has gone very power of hindsight. 

 

I guarantee when GMS signed, nobody thought Euan Henderson would be a better option in April. 

 

Doesn't mean Hendo is a better player, but in better form. Human beings ebb and flow, I always find it disappointing people who no doubt have their own flaws and ups and downs fail to show any forgiveness. 

 

Life in 2021

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, luckydug said:

If our support are so fabulous they won't let a few setbacks stop them renewing their STs. 

It’s not a few setbacks. Why gloss over years of failure and the increasing strength of feeling over that time?

[August Landmesser]

10 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I see the resident ITK mouthpiece for the club is slavering pish as usual .

You might have to narrow that down a bit!

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

5 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

You might have to narrow that down a bit!

Anti club mouthpieces far outweigh club mouthpieces I would believe 

[August Landmesser]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Anti club mouthpieces far outweigh club mouthpieces I would believe 

That's true, I sort of misread the op, ah well!

[qferryjam]

4 hours ago, Silverwolf said:

It is amazing how much of the improvement in performance is down to confidence and self belief, both as individuals and as a team. Up until the first goal, although HMFC were the better side, Alloa were still in the game. Everything changed after the first goal.
 

As fans, we have to take some responsibility for ensuring we give encouragement and praise to the team when it is needed as well as merited. It genuinely helps.

 

We have not been able to do much cheering due to the lockdown this season and a section of the fan base seem to have resorted to vitriolic ranting on social media. The team and management do read it.
 

Whilst I understand the frustrations that are behind this, and in someways agree with the concerns regarding the tactics and football leadership, do not underestimate how much damage is done to the squad and individual players confidence when they read the personal and abusive bile that is directed at them from some quarters.

 

Last night, was a convincing win. Irrespective of the quality of the opposition, we beat the team facing us. We have secured promotion convincingly. Lets hope we can build on this and carry that self assurance forward.

What a lot of pish you can’t criticise the players at games or online as it’s “no fair” and they need motivated ,what next no talking the team down in the boozer in case someone hears it ? If you believe this has been a season of convincing performances I wonder about your objectivity,

this has been the first convincing performance since Raith away when they were a man down and the one before that Dundee ,Neilson has been bested by part time and full time managers consistently including a guy that travelled 4 hours to work as a welder after knocking us out the cup ,I just don’t think giving him more money and time to get gubbed off Prem teams before sacking him in November is the brightest idea 

[GinRummy]

15 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Anti club mouthpieces far outweigh club mouthpieces I would believe 

I don’t see many anti-club mouthpieces tbh. Ann and Robbie aren’t the club. It’s not as if they haven’t left themselves wide open to deserved criticism. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

15 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t see many anti-club mouthpieces tbh. Ann and Robbie aren’t the club. It’s not as if they haven’t left themselves wide open to deserved criticism. 

Respectfully disagree 

[GinRummy]

17 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Respectfully disagree 

👍 not saying there are none. 

[JamboAl]

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

What?  You don’t think players have been played out of position over the months?   Suddenly Haring is a magician and making others play well?  
I don't think I even hinted at that.  Quite the reverse.  I said

Teams are constructed "properly" on the basis of what is best for the side and not necessarily what is best for an individual player. 

In fact Smith played out of position last night and it was a tremendous outcome in defence.  Did you complain about that?
It all goes into the mix.  Normally playing players where they are most comfortable and have proven to be most effective gets the best from them.

You're correct - NORMALLY

Again, the knock on effect is normally positive as players thrive , their minds are more comfortable with their role and feel more motivated.  Why would tactics need to change game to game as much if you play players in their best role?  Do you move centre backs around to suit the opposition?  
Yes NORMALLY.  We moved Smith around to suit the TEAM.

There’s too much pre-game tinkering with teams in football now. I believe in tactical changes in-game once the manager gets a view of how the match is panning out and if it’s required, but you’re half way there if you just play players where they’ve been most effective for most of their careers to that point. The first step to an unhappy player is playing them in an alien role. 

We should not tinker for tinkering's sake but we should change, not tinker, as the occasion requires.  Last night we could have played Poppy or Berra in CD and they would have been happy at being selected but would it have improved on the display of last night's defence.  You don't need to answer that.