Joe Savage.

[Whatever]

Thank him.

 

He has been far from happy and has let it be known. Or so I hear.

[Newton51]

Just now, Whatever said:

Thank him.

 

He has been far from happy and has let it be known. Or so I hear.

What has he done?

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

I mentioned on the Credit where Due thread that the performance had a feel of “something happened” this week.

 

I wondered it senior players were involved.

 

You might as well shed a bit more light...?

[The Gorgie]

Ann wouldn't have liked that! 

 

But if true about time someone at the club called out our shite performances.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Professional pride should have kicked in long before today. 

 

Fundamentally the squads have under achieved and worse still done little to rectify it for too long. 

 

One win against Alloa won't sweep it away, next season is hugely important, reputations need to be repaired and grown. 

 

Hard road ahead of us, positive there is actually some anger and emotion about the place. Much more needed

[Longbaws]

14 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

What has he done?

I think he's said something along the lines of "if you useless shites don't get you act together Robbie is away and Duncan Ferguson is ready to come in, every one of you will be forced to see out your contract"

 

I'd like to think newspaper clippings about big Dunc's jail time/ pictures of the burglars were on every locker in that changing room tonight.

 

(I'm not ITK)

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

If we are playing a guessing game

 

- I’m pretty sure Savage will have no authority at all to have a go at Robbie - I’m not sure how that relationship works but Savage surely isn’t Robbie’s boss

 

- equally I’m pretty certain he can’t dictate things like formation etc on Robbie 

 

- he might, with permission from Robbie, have authority to let some players know where they stand and where they may and/or won’t be next season if they don’t buck up their ideas, but it seems unlikely.

 

So would be good to know what exactly we have to thank him for.

[sandylejambo]

the  midfield had a bit of running about them, why has it taken so long for Neilson to see what we have been saying for weeks? the mans still an arse, he can GTF

[StevenNaismith]

I know there was a meeting with JS, RN and some senior players on Monday. No idea what was said obviously but it clearly has had an affect when you look at the personnel and shape changes last night.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Maybe it’s exactly why you have a competent director of football, someone to sit down and analyse problems with and come to a solution. Whatever happened the solution was found. So credit to all involved. But that’s just 1 game. 1 swallow does not a summer make 

 

What would be really good is to follow it up with the same type of performance away like we saw at Raith 👍 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

So full credit to Ann Budge for hiring Savage then? Or 

[JamboAl]

10 hours ago, Whatever said:

Thank him.

 

He has been far from happy and has let it be known. Or so I hear.

So it was nothing to do with Soapy and Peter returning in a decent state of fitness?

Edited April 10, 2021 by JamboAl

[kila]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Maybe it’s exactly why you have a competent director of football, someone to sit down and analyse problems with and come to a solution. Whatever happened the solution was found. So credit to all involved. But that’s just 1 game. 1 swallow does not a summer make 

 

What would be really good is to follow it up with the same type of performance away like we saw at Raith 👍 

He’s not the director of football though. He’s sporting director and is the same level as Robbie and both report to Budge. Would be different if he were on the board and Robbie reported to him. 
 

But if Savage is rocking the boat then great, he isn’t a yes man and is just what we need. 

[droid]

If I was Savage I’d be more than a little miffed if I recommended a box to box energetic midfielder who likes a goal and then the manager decided to play him everywhere other than his natural position.

[kila]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

So it was nothing to do with Soapy and Peter returning in a decent dtate of fitness?

Haring says he’s been fit for months. 
 

You don’t think it was a change of tactic or formation that got the best out of the players? 

[Gordon Ramsay]

Last night was better but I'll reserve judgement until we come up against better opposition than a part-time side who are bottom of the league. 

 

Until we scored there was nothing in the game. 

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, kila said:

Haring says he’s been fit for months. 
 

You don’t think it was a change of tactic or formation that got the best out of the players? 

There's a difference between being fit and being match fit.  Haring also said he was fir for the 2019 cup final!

When you get 2 players back of the calibre of PH and JS and you have your 1st choice LB missing. something has to change.

[sadj]

23 minutes ago, StevenNaismith said:

I know there was a meeting with JS, RN and some senior players on Monday. No idea what was said obviously but it clearly has had an affect when you look at the personnel and shape changes last night.

👍🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻HHGH

[A_A wehatethehibs]

4 minutes ago, kila said:

Haring says he’s been fit for months. 
 

You don’t think it was a change of tactic or formation that got the best out of the players? 

The change in formation was self evidently to accommodate getting Souttar back in and keep Smith close to him. 
 

Are you saying playing Souttar was savages bright idea? you don’t think Robbie Neilson (who signed him for hearts originally) would’ve already wanted to play Souttar by now? 

 

Haring never just said he’s been fit for months you’ve taken what he said out of context. He said he was fit but was awful against Dundee when given his opportunity. He accepted that was below his standards. And after that, the team won games so he found it tough to get back in. Then after the bounce games was feeling good but got his red card and suspended which set him back another couple of weeks. So, put what “he said” in context of everything he said. 
 

 

[Gambo]

10 hours ago, Whatever said:

Thank him.

 

He has been far from happy and has let it be known. Or so I hear.

Good.

 

According to a few in here and Robbie, nothing was wrong though, just a wee blip.

[Bull's-eye]

So the new management structure is working then.

 

That's good to know.

[Section Q]

10 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I mentioned on the Credit where Due thread that the performance had a feel of “something happened” this week.

 

I wondered it senior players were involved.

 

You might as well shed a bit more light...?

The addition of Souttar and the absence of GMS and Popescu made all the difference. Also Halliday vacating the midfield meant it was more balanced without him. TBF he looked comfortable on left.

Then we kicked on from the first goal. Plus Alloa collapsed in the second half.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

30 minutes ago, StevenNaismith said:

I know there was a meeting with JS, RN and some senior players on Monday. No idea what was said obviously but it clearly has had an affect when you look at the personnel and shape changes last night.

As I said on another thread last night that’s exactly the sort of thing it looked like had happened during the week before last night. 

[Section Q]

2 minutes ago, Section Q said:

The addition of Souttar and the absence of GMS and Popescu made all the difference. Also Halliday vacating the midfield meant it was more balanced without him. TBF he looked comfortable on left.

Then we kicked on from the first goal. Plus Alloa collapsed in the second half.

Please add the mighty Haring to the above ramblings.....

[sadj]

10 minutes ago, kila said:

Haring says he’s been fit for months. 
 

You don’t think it was a change of tactic or formation that got the best out of the players? 

The change of formation was good but having players of the quality of Haring and Souttar fit enough and ready to play also helps you to play that formation. Can you imagine trying to play 3 at the back with Halkett , Berra and Popescu.
 

Having Haring n McEneff complimenting each other and able to play as they did also comes from that foundation and having players able to get forward and make runs. I’m not sure we’d have had the speed of transition we did with Halliday and Irving or Irving n McEneff. (Not slating Irving I like him - although he frustrates me a lot)

 

Boyce was very good in the hole and Henderson for probably the first time in a Hearts top played in a position that people on here have said he thrives in under the first team. 
 

That said it was a professional performance and one that hasn’t been seen for a good 18months at least if not more.

 

Thats not acceptable and is only a first step on a very big ladder that needs climbed for us to have confidence in the club. Absolutely no one will be saying that it resolves issues but it was a big F U to all the people including us who have said the players and management team can’t perform like that.

 

However I think we as a fan base are allowed to say it at least was enjoyable though and that having those players fit and able to play (and more importantly perform as they can) allowed the change in formation/tactic to have the success it did. I dont think they can be separated as one helped the other.

 

One of the big things for me last night even before we got the first was the movement , players on their toes rather than heels and the posture and body language of players was more like it. Standing tall , head up , looking to play passes , looking to shoot , looking to create , looking to make runs etc
 

 

[sadj]

10 minutes ago, Section Q said:

The addition of Souttar and the absence of GMS and Popescu made all the difference. Also Halliday vacating the midfield meant it was more balanced without him. TBF he looked comfortable on left.

Then we kicked on from the first goal. Plus Alloa collapsed in the second half.

Think Alloa collapsed as we got some confidence back and looked to push on instead of sitting on the couple if goals. I could be wrong but Robbie’s first spell im sure we scored goals in bunches. Last nights 51, 53 minute goals was the first time iv felt like we would do that for a long time. 
 

GMS not so much he’s shown more drive than most since he came in. We all want and expect more of him so its easy to target him. Been far worse performers than him since Jan

Edited April 10, 2021 by sadj

[GinRummy]

15 minutes ago, Section Q said:

The addition of Souttar and the absence of GMS and Popescu made all the difference. Also Halliday vacating the midfield meant it was more balanced without him. TBF he looked comfortable on left.

Then we kicked on from the first goal. Plus Alloa collapsed in the second half.

This is what I took from last night. For months we’ve had minimum two players a game who’s effort (or legs) just weren’t good enough. GMS, Irving, Berra, Kasteneer, White, Walker, all either not fit enough or heads not on the job at hand. 

[Gambo]

11 hours ago, Whatever said:

Thank him.

 

He has been far from happy and has let it be known. Or so I hear.

Hopefully we now have someone at the club who knows where we should be, someone who gets the club. What is acceptable and what is not.

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Hopefully we now have someone at the club who knows where we should be, someone who gets the club. What is acceptable and what is not.

You mean someone who will savage people not putting the effort in?

[JamboAl]

56 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

The change in formation was self evidently to accommodate getting Souttar back in and keep Smith close to him. 
 

Are you saying playing Souttar was savages bright idea? you don’t think Robbie Neilson (who signed him for hearts originally) would’ve already wanted to play Souttar by now? 

 

Haring never just said he’s been fit for months you’ve taken what he said out of context. He said he was fit but was awful against Dundee when given his opportunity. He accepted that was below his standards. And after that, the team won games so he found it tough to get back in. Then after the bounce games was feeling good but got his red card and suspended which set him back another couple of weeks. So, put what “he said” in context of everything he said. 
 

 

Agreed.

Some people are obsessed by formations.  You play the best formation that the available players allow and that could change frequently depending on injuries/suspensions.  I defy any manager to have played last night's formation in earlier games without Soapy, Haring and yes, even Henderson, and still expect to get similar results.  The problem seems to be a reluctance to give Neilson credit and although I am certainly not his number one fan he deserves full marks for last night.  If these performances continue I might have to hold up my hands and become his No 1 fan

[wavydavy]

54 minutes ago, sadj said:

The change of formation was good but having players of the quality of Haring and Souttar fit enough and ready to play also helps you to play that formation. Can you imagine trying to play 3 at the back with Halkett , Berra and Popescu.
 

Having Haring n McEneff complimenting each other and able to play as they did also comes from that foundation and having players able to get forward and make runs. I’m not sure we’d have had the speed of transition we did with Halliday and Irving or Irving n McEneff. (Not slating Irving I like him - although he frustrates me a lot)

 

Boyce was very good in the hole and Henderson for probably the first time in a Hearts top played in a position that people on here have said he thrives in under the first team. 
 

That said it was a professional performance and one that hasn’t been seen for a good 18months at least if not more.

 

Thats not acceptable and is only a first step on a very big ladder that needs climbed for us to have confidence in the club. Absolutely no one will be saying that it resolves issues but it was a big F U to all the people including us who have said the players and management team can’t perform like that.

 

However I think we as a fan base are allowed to say it at least was enjoyable though and that having those players fit and able to play (and more importantly perform as they can) allowed the change in formation/tactic to have the success it did. I dont think they can be separated as one helped the other.

 

One of the big things for me last night even before we got the first was the movement , players on their toes rather than heels and the posture and body language of players was more like it. Standing tall , head up , looking to play passes , looking to shoot , looking to create , looking to make runs etc
 

 

 

Don't disagree with your summary of things. Halliday looked more comfortable in the wing back position although he still has a tendancy to want to go backwards and sideways.

 

Credit to him though because it was great ball for Boyce.

 

Nice to see McEneff being able to do what he was signed to do and get forward and great that he got on the score sheet.

 

It was a marked improvement on how we have played for some time however the acid test will be how we perform in our next game.

 

With it being away from home I hope Robbie doesn't revert to his don't lose mentality and tinker with the formation and just goes out there to win the game outright.

 

Teams will have noticed how crucial Haring was to our performance last night and he will be receiving special attention guaranteed.

 

It will be interesting to see how he copes and how it affects the rest of the team. Robbie and Savage should be making a playmaker type midfielder their top priority in the close season because when Haring is out we need a good replacement or someone to play alongside Haring. 

[sadj]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

Don't disagree with your summary of things. Halliday looked more comfortable in the wing back position although he still has a tendancy to want to go backwards and sideways.

 

Credit to him though because it was great ball for Boyce.

 

Nice to see McEneff being able to do what he was signed to do and get forward and great that he got on the score sheet.

 

It was a marked improvement on how we have played for some time however the acid test will be how we perform in our next game.

 

With it being away from home I hope Robbie doesn't revert to his don't lose mentality and tinker with the formation and just goes out there to win the game outright.

 

Teams will have noticed how crucial Haring was to our performance last night and he will be receiving special attention guaranteed.

 

It will be interesting to see how he copes and how it affects the rest of the team. Robbie and Savage should be making a playmaker type midfielder their top priority in the close season because when Haring is out we need a good replacement or someone to play alongside Haring. 

Indeed , said that somewhere else , need to go out with that attitude , effort and application every game and wed be top 3 or 4. Instead of looking stoned out our boxes every game. 

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

Indeed , said that somewhere else , need to go out with that attitude , effort and application every game and wed be top 3 or 4. Instead of looking stoned out our boxes every game. 

 

👍

[Deevers]

1 hour ago, droid said:

If I was Savage I’d be more than a little miffed if I recommended a box to box energetic midfielder who likes a goal and then the manager decided to play him everywhere other than his natural position.

This. The midfield had for more energy about it last night.   None of the slow predictable stuff that we have put up with for months. I wonder what caused the sea change? Interesting that this happened with Irving on the bench.

[JamboAl]

Just now, Deevers said:

This. The midfield had for more energy about it last night.   None of the slow predictable stuff that we have put up with for months. I wonder what caused the sea change? Interesting that this happened with Irving on the bench.

And more interesting that it happened with Haring on the field!

[ford donald]

1 hour ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Last night was better but I'll reserve judgement until we come up against better opposition than a part-time side who are bottom of the league. 

 

Until we scored there was nothing in the game. 

 I agree with that,it almost looked like we where going back into our shell,it all changed with the goal.

[Deevers]

Just now, JamboAl said:

And more interesting that it happened with Haring on the field!

True - and fully back to his best.  I thought McEneff showed  what he is capable of last night if played properly in the central midfield role. Full of energy and running.

[Des Lynam]

23 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Agreed.

Some people are obsessed by formations.  You play the best formation that the available players allow and that could change frequently depending on injuries/suspensions.  I defy any manager to have played last night's formation in earlier games without Soapy, Haring and yes, even Henderson, and still expect to get similar results.  The problem seems to be a reluctance to give Neilson credit and although I am certainly not his number one fan he deserves full marks for last night.  If these performances continue I might have to hold up my hands and become his No 1 fan

I agree Al. If he’s going to get pelters he must get some credit no matter the opposition. The effort and application shown last night should be expected every game. 

[sadj]

19 minutes ago, Deevers said:

True - and fully back to his best.  I thought McEneff showed  what he is capable of last night if played properly in the central midfield role. Full of energy and running.

Lol read the match thread McEneff was getting it tight last night. I agree with you though. Even little things like chasing back to cover the defence as they were caught forward and making tackles were done with an energy thats been lacking

[Deevers]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Lol read the match thread McEneff was getting it tight last night. I agree with you though. Even little things like chasing back to cover the defence as they were caught forward and making tackles were done with an energy thats been lacking

Yeah, saw some of it earlier.  You wonder if some folk ever actually played the game.  I thought he showed plenty of what we might expect of him and I though he took his goal really well.  I know it’s only Alloa, but the signs of change all round were there.

[JamboAl]

28 minutes ago, Deevers said:

True - and fully back to his best.  I thought McEneff showed  what he is capable of last night if played properly in the central midfield role. Full of energy and running.

I don't understand what you mean by "properly".  The presence of Haring last night gave him a freedom and belief he didn't have before.  It's not a question of playing him "properly" but more the availability of certain players to complement his game.  If a Haring type player is not there how would you ask him to play "properly"?  It's a bit like asking a flying winger to play properly even when he gets no service.

[Gambo]

2 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

So the new management structure is working then.

 

That's good to know.

Not really, our manager in this tin pot league has allegedly had to be helped/pulled up by Savage.

Not good that that had to happen in this league.

[Borders Jambo]

2 hours ago, sadj said:

The change of formation was good but having players of the quality of Haring and Souttar fit enough and ready to play also helps you to play that formation. Can you imagine trying to play 3 at the back with Halkett , Berra and Popescu.
 

Having Haring n McEneff complimenting each other and able to play as they did also comes from that foundation and having players able to get forward and make runs. I’m not sure we’d have had the speed of transition we did with Halliday and Irving or Irving n McEneff. (Not slating Irving I like him - although he frustrates me a lot)

 

Boyce was very good in the hole and Henderson for probably the first time in a Hearts top played in a position that people on here have said he thrives in under the first team. 
 

That said it was a professional performance and one that hasn’t been seen for a good 18months at least if not more.

 

Thats not acceptable and is only a first step on a very big ladder that needs climbed for us to have confidence in the club. Absolutely no one will be saying that it resolves issues but it was a big F U to all the people including us who have said the players and management team can’t perform like that.

 

However I think we as a fan base are allowed to say it at least was enjoyable though and that having those players fit and able to play (and more importantly perform as they can) allowed the change in formation/tactic to have the success it did. I dont think they can be separated as one helped the other.

 

One of the big things for me last night even before we got the first was the movement , players on their toes rather than heels and the posture and body language of players was more like it. Standing tall , head up , looking to play passes , looking to shoot , looking to create , looking to make runs etc
 

 

Great post.  I'd personally still like Irving to sign that contract as I think he could be a big player for us.

[Borders Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Not really, our manager in this tin pot league has allegedly had to be helped/pulled up by Savage.

Not good that that had to happen in this league.

Not defending RN but sometimes you can be too close to things.  I've sometimes wondered if the fact CL and RN are self proclaimed Hearts supporters is actually a hindrance at times

 

Perhaps Savage or one of the Senior players was able to see a solution. 

 

Regardless, there is one thing we can hopefully all agree with and that is that it was so good to see Peter Haring and Soapy back last night, fit and well and the class that they both are.  The expression on Soapy's face when he was sitting in the stand was wonderful to see. 

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, Borders Jambo said:

Great post.  I'd personally still like Irving to sign that contract as I think he could be a big player for us.

The problem with Irving was that he was too deep. The ball would go back to him before we could play it forward. If big Pete could play a forward pass, he did. 

 

I like Irving but he needs to be a bit more mobile and go box to box a bit more instead of sitting in front of the defence. 

[JamboAl]

12 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Not really, our manager in this tin pot league has allegedly had to be helped/pulled up by Savage.

Not good that that had to happen in this league.

Is there not a possible contradiction there?

If it's real there is no "allegedly" about it.

Edited April 10, 2021 by JamboAl

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

This is what I took from last night. For months we’ve had minimum two players a game who’s effort (or legs) just weren’t good enough. GMS, Irving, Berra, Kasteneer, White, Walker, all either not fit enough or heads not on the job at hand. 

After last night's performance, I don't think we'd miss any of the above six next season. Irvine has been a stand out, (occasionally).

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

So the new management structure is working then.

 

That's good to know.

2 wins in 9 , oot the cups to minnows and the entire club in crisis as a result. 

"the new management structure is working then"... is it ? 

It's still miles away from where it needs to be. 

And for all the praise heaped on the performance last night everyone seems to be overlooking the poor opening 30 minutes when the defence still looked like a collective bombscare. 

A good performance last night but a long way to go. 

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Is there not a possible contradiction there?

If it's real there is no "allegedly" about it.

That's not what the OP said. He doesn't know what was discussed. 

[tynietigers]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

So it was nothing to do with Soapy and Peter returning in a decent state of fitness?

Was thinking the exact same 👍🏻 I think it is as simple as that ♥️