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Vaccine passport to get into football and elsewhere...


williamgerrard

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SectionDJambo

Whatever the rights or wrongs of having a vaccine passport to get into a match at Tynecastle, it surely wouldn't be the case that fans would be showing or presenting a certificate at the turnstile. Would it not be that you would have to prove you've had the vaccine when you buy your season ticket or match ticket, in the same way you currently have to prove you are entitled to student or senior citizen prices? There are no cash gates anymore, and not likely to be for some time at any ground.

There is, of course, always the chance of tickets being given to someone else, but that would probably be minimal amongst Hearts fans.

One good thing would be the cloning of tickets, which Celtic and Rangers fans have been guilty of at Tynecastle, would have to be taken seriously at last. Maybe even a ban on them due to their past practices. That would be a tremendous bonus.

Before such a restriction could be imposed on home fans, it would be fairer to wait until the entire population has been offered the vaccine.

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27 minutes ago, brawlad74 said:

Any scheme is unworkable in my opinion. Fans arriving same time, queues, folk bringing big bros ID, mind it's not that long ago since our turnstile operators let in hundreds of arse cheeks with false tickets so don't see it being realistic. 

Have you never heard of

technology ? 

Anything is possible these days. 

Even fingerprint technology could be used. 

 

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Heartsofgold
24 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

Interesting post and very informative.

 

Didn't know about some of this so thanks for posting.

 

So does this then strengthen the argument that if the vulnerable are vaccinated, the healthy don't need to be really? Similar to the flu/cold? 

Yes and no.  We need to vaccinate as many people as possible just now in the active population to limit/restrict or even eliminate the possibility of transmission of the virus.

 

Vaccinating the elderly will stop the worst cases of death and serious illness but the fact remains that this is a new virus and so much is still unknown on it's longer term effects.

 

I believe the hope is that eventually the vaccinations will go to targeted populations and groups in the future once some 'herd(God I hate that term!!) immunity has been built up in the general populace.

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1 hour ago, williamgerrard said:

I have a feeling this will be mandatory soon and my personal opinion I won't be taking vaccine so pretty much rules out me attending football .I am curious what other people think about passports to get into tynie 

Good for you chum. Stand up for your rights and be an individual. Me ? I’m getting vaccinated to keep myself and others from dying and I’m happy to carry an app that says so, plus I don’t want anti vaxxers inhabiting the same spaces I intend to inhabit. This is NOT the only thing you’ll be excluded from doing by the way.

Edited by JimmyCant
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19 minutes ago, Geddyalexneil said:

According to Marjorie Taylor Greene the vaccine passport is the "mark of the beast" from the book of Revelations in the bible.

As a heavy metal fan count me in. 

Screw it just tattoo "666" on my bloody forehead and be done with!

Then get Iron Maiden playing the Hearts song and we might get some passion back too

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6 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Whatever the rights or wrongs of having a vaccine passport to get into a match at Tynecastle, it surely wouldn't be the case that fans would be showing or presenting a certificate at the turnstile. Would it not be that you would have to prove you've had the vaccine when you buy your season ticket or match ticket, in the same way you currently have to prove you are entitled to student or senior citizen prices? There are no cash gates anymore, and not likely to be for some time at any ground.

There is, of course, always the chance of tickets being given to someone else, but that would probably be minimal amongst Hearts fans.

One good thing would be the cloning of tickets, which Celtic and Rangers fans have been guilty of at Tynecastle, would have to be taken seriously at last. Maybe even a ban on them due to their past practices. That would be a tremendous bonus.

Before such a restriction could be imposed on home fans, it would be fairer to wait until the entire population has been offered the vaccine.

Given you could then pass on your ticket, or give a season ticket to a friend, if you can’t make the game, I doubt that would be deemed sufficient. 

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1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

Good for you chum. Stand up for your rights and be an individual. Me ? I’m getting vaccinated and happy to carry an app that says so, plus I don’t want anti vaxxers inhabiting the same spaces I intend to inhabit. This is NOT the only thing you’ll be excluded from doing by the way.

Why not if you've had the vaccine what's your problem?

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3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Yes and no.  We need to vaccinate as many people as possible just now in the active population to limit/restrict or even eliminate the possibility of transmission of the virus.

 

Vaccinating the elderly will stop the worst cases of death and serious illness but the fact remains that this is a new virus and so much is still unknown on it's longer term effects.

 

I believe the hope is that eventually the vaccinations will go to targeted populations and groups in the future once some 'herd(God I hate that term!!) immunity has been built up in the general populace.

Have I seen you on breakfast TV. Time to relearn I think, Heartsof.....

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6 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Have you never heard of

technology ? 

Anything is possible these days. 

Even fingerprint technology could be used. 

 

I am not sure about fingerprint technology, given hands and fingers can transmit the virus, unless someone wipes it clean after every fan. 

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I thought that the people who have enjoyed loads of finger wagging over the last year would be at a loose end post pandemic, but it seems vaccine passport's will keep them busy for a while.

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4 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Have you never heard of

technology ? 

Anything is possible these days. 

Even fingerprint technology could be used. 

 

Can't subscribe to that dug, too much big brother, costs, IT probs, take up, timescales etc this is Hearts at end of day and organisation not their forte.

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Ex member of the SaS

This is a point that the passport advocators seem to be missing. The Vaccine will not stop you getting Covid. It will however reduce the effects and severity. Therefore it makes the passport obsolete as those who have had the jab have little to fear from those who have not, and those who have not, know the risks of catching it from someone vaccinated or not.

This debate is not about being vaccinated or not it's about you human rights not to have this inflicted on you. 

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SectionDJambo
1 minute ago, Paolo said:

Given you could then pass on your ticket, or give a season ticket to a friend, if you can’t make the game, I doubt that would be deemed sufficient. 

I agree this is a likely happening but unless something is put in place, which would be dependent on some trust, there won’t be regular entry for any of us.
Spacing out of punters with much reduced attendances and staged exits at the end of a match will most likely be in place initially, and for some time to come.

 

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1 hour ago, john thomas said:

Issue some kind of passport ?

🤣

59 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

One last word, If what you claim is right why did we not have a vaccine for bird flu, Sars, or even aids or ebola,? All much more serious than this.

Covid is a sars is it not? and Aids is a ridiculous comparison , Ebola is so brutally lethal that it burns itself out by killing most of its hosts so it struggles to travel , Covid19 is a perfect storm that it can travel as it mutates and its lethal but not lethal to Ebola levels so isnt killing its hosts fast enough to burn itself out.

50 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I 💯 agree on the card for people who cannot have the vaccine. I notice that some people who can't wear masks wear lanyards in shops and exceptions need to be respected.


People who can’t have the vaccine could easily be covered under what I mention below , QR code for people who can’t be vaccinated then it is up to the club as a business to decide if they are going to allow them in. Hardly violates human rights and if letting them in (science should be the basis for that decision) doesnt mean segregating them , no one would even know they are in the cant be vaccinated group as opposed to the vaccinated group.

 

Just now, JimmyCant said:

Good for you chum. Stand up for your rights and be an individual. Me ? I’m getting vaccinated and happy to carry an app that says so, plus I don’t want anti vaxxers inhabiting the same spaces I intend to inhabit. This is NOT the only thing you’ll be excluded from doing by the way.

I like the fact he isnt complaining about just saying it excludes him as he wont be getting it. I think for the forseeable until the mutations slow down and there is far more known about it long term you are right. Seems easy to work a way to monitor it. Google and Apple were quick to put a tracking app on phones if you wanted it. No reason a vaccine passport can’t be doen similarly too. Bit of investment in scanners and you can scan it off your phone like a QR code and there is no real extra delay in getting in.

 

Can then invent one for OF and Hibs fans who refuse to wash so we can keep them out too 😉

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Ex member of the SaS
9 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Yes and no.  We need to vaccinate as many people as possible just now in the active population to limit/restrict or even eliminate the possibility of transmission of the virus.

 

Vaccinating the elderly will stop the worst cases of death and serious illness but the fact remains that this is a new virus and so much is still unknown on it's longer term effects.

 

I believe the hope is that eventually the vaccinations will go to targeted populations and groups in the future once some 'herd(God I hate that term!!) immunity has been built up in the general populace.

Once again you are wrong. Being vaccinated does not stop infection or transmission. it simple means the infection does not have the same impact.

You are right in as much as the old and infirm are being hardest hit and you are also right this is a new virus and we don't know the long term effects, likewise we don't know the long term effects ( if any ) of the vaccine.

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Heartsofgold
21 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Oh FFS there is no plot to exterminate anyone, if you look above you will see I have had it. This is about you human rights to go about your daily business without having to carry/ show and ID card or passport.

And the businesses that you enter on a daily basis have the absolute right to deny you entry to their premises if you have not been vaccinated.

 

As others have said 'No Shirt, No Shoes, No entry' or in this case 'No proof you have not been vaccinated against a highly contagious and deadly virus, when it is well within your ability to get it, No Entry'.  Is it discriminatory?  Yes it is. Am I fine with that so I can lead my life.  Yes.  Yes I am.

 

We are not talking about racist or sexual discrimination.  Those are personal, ideological discriminations made for ridiculous reasons. This is discriminating against people who have made the choice to not have a medical inoculation, that so far sees to be safe, and therefore putting others, who made not be able to get the vaccination safely (for example pregnant women), at risk of death or serious and catastrophic illness.

 

For me, it comes down to this.  Don't get the vaccination, don't expect to return to your life as you previously lived it.

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8 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Why not if you've had the vaccine what's your problem?

Because the vaccine isn’t 100% protection and therefore you can still catch it, more likely from some clown who refused a vaccine.

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6 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Why not if you've had the vaccine what's your problem?

 

 

- You can still catch and suffer from the virus if you are vaccinated? Its not 💯 on stopping you catching it nor is it 💯 on stopping it being a serious case if you do catch it. Its highly , highly unlikely it will be serious but it can happen. We know very little about the long term effects or how continued exposure may affect someone either

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3 minutes ago, Paolo said:

I am not sure about fingerprint technology, given hands and fingers can transmit the virus, unless someone wipes it clean after every fan. 

I'm sure the tech boffins could find a way round that problem. 

As I said anything is possible an automatic cleanser after every use perhaps. 

Tell you what, you keep on thinking of problems and reasons for not having passports at venues and I'll keep on suggesting ways round them. 

It's going to happen in some form or other so either go with it or sit in the house, your choice. 

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Seymour M Hersh

My view is that if too many people refuse to get the vaccine the twats in both governments will use it as an excuse to continue to keep us locked down to one degree or another. 

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Ex member of the SaS
2 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

And the businesses that you enter on a daily basis have the absolute right to deny you entry to their premises if you have not been vaccinated.

 

As others have said 'No Shirt, No Shoes, No entry' or in this case 'No proof you have not been vaccinated against a highly contagious and deadly virus, when it is well within your ability to get it, No Entry'.  Is it discriminatory?  Yes it is. Am I fine with that so I can lead my life.  Yes.  Yes I am.

 

We are not talking about racist or sexual discrimination.  Those are personal, ideological discriminations made for ridiculous reasons. This is discriminating against people who have made the choice to not have a medical inoculation, that so far sees to be safe, and therefore putting others, who made not be able to get the vaccination safely (for example pregnant women), at risk of death or serious and catastrophic illness.

 

For me, it comes down to this.  Don't get the vaccination, don't expect to return to your life as you previously lived it.

You appear to be a very selfish individual that wouldn't give up their seat on a bus for an old woman.

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Pasquale for King

I should get my second jag in the next two months, will get a vaccine passport if they’re required but hopefully it won’t make me HAVE to go games 🙈

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Heartsofgold
1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Once again you are wrong. Being vaccinated does not stop infection or transmission. it simple means the infection does not have the same impact.

You are right in as much as the old and infirm are being hardest hit and you are also right this is a new virus and we don't know the long term effects, likewise we don't know the long term effects ( if any ) of the vaccine.

Tell that to the smallpox or measles vaccines.  I do agree that not all vaccinations fully stop transmission or stop any symptoms BUT they do lessen the possibility of you dying or getting seriously ill.

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Geddyalexneil
13 minutes ago, sadj said:

Then get Iron Maiden playing the Hearts song and we might get some passion back too

Hell I would allow the bloody Spice Girls to be played if I saw some sodden passion from the players and management!

Although I would certainly prefer Maiden or Hammerfall with "Heart's On Fire" played before the Heart's song!

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2 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

You appear to be a very selfish individual that wouldn't give up their seat on a bus for an old woman.

😂😂😂😂😂

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Heartsofgold
4 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

You appear to be a very selfish individual that wouldn't give up their seat on a bus for an old woman.

No the exact opposite actually.  I care deeply about the vulnerable people in society and that's why I think that people who CHOOSE to not have this vaccine, thereby putting that same old woman at higher risk of actually getting on my bus and catching this bloody thing', should be restricted on how they potentially pass the virus on.

 

It's a simple premise really.  Get the jab and help protect the vulnerable.

 

Oh, and as a diabetic, I'm in a vulnerable catagory as well statistically.

Edited by Heartsofgold
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5 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

You appear to be a very selfish individual that wouldn't give up their seat on a bus for an old woman.

and you seem like an individual who would give up your seat then moan at them constantly because you have given up your seat

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Heartsofgold
17 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Have I seen you on breakfast TV. Time to relearn I think, Heartsof.....

Sorry, not getting that context.

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Ex member of the SaS
1 minute ago, Heartsofgold said:

No the exact opposite actually.  I care deeply about the vulnerable people in society and that's why I think that people who CHOOSE to not have this vaccine, thereby putting that same old woman at higher risk of actually getting on my bus and catching this bloody thing', should be restricted on how they potentially pass the virus on.

 

It's a simple premise really.  Get the jab and help protect the vulnerable.

Here we go again about getting the jab. I have had the first and will get the second when called. This is NOT about the vaccine this is about a passport to go about your daily life. 

That same old lady will have had the vaccine and is way better off and much less likely to get seriously ill or die so what difference does it make to have a bloody passport.

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Ex member of the SaS
1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

and you seem like an individual who would give up your seat then moan at them constantly because you have given up your seat

Naw I would just kick their legs from under them and let them sit on the floor. 

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Heartsofgold
1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Here we go again about getting the jab. I have had the first and will get the second when called. This is NOT about the vaccine this is about a passport to go about your daily life. 

That same old lady will have had the vaccine and is way better off and much less likely to get seriously ill or die so what difference does it make to have a bloody passport.

Sorry, I wasn't pointing that comment at you specifically but at people that choose to not get it, I know you said you'd had it already.

 

I understand you like personal freedom to do as you (legally) wish but this is no different from having to get a licence to drive a car or a stamp on your passport to visit other countries.  Yes, it may be a little inconvenient for some but that is a small price to pay to protect societies vulnerable surely.

Edited by Heartsofgold
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No passport no entry, simples, happening elsewhere already, test events coming soon in UK. Well hearts it’s been fun, goodbye. FTH.

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The fewer flat earthers that are allowed to go to football the better.

 

:pleasing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

::troll::

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Ex member of the SaS
Just now, Heartsofgold said:

Sorry, I wasn't pointing that comment at you specifically but at people that choose to not get it, I know you said you'd had it already.

The thing is H, people who advocate for further restrictions simply give cart blanch to the government that already interfere too much with how people live.

Getting the vaccine is not the issue but I for one will fight against a passport to go to a football game. many fought a war to fight against such restrictions as ID cards and being stopped on the street to prove who you are.

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46 minutes ago, Geddyalexneil said:

According to Marjorie Taylor Greene the vaccine passport is the "mark of the beast" from the book of Revelations in the bible.

As a heavy metal fan count me in. 

Screw it just tattoo "666" on my bloody forehead and be done with!

🤘

Are Rush metal though?

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Geddyalexneil
3 minutes ago, jamboman9 said:

🤘

Are Rush metal though?

Not totally! They have moments of metal in their catalogue. However I am someone who loves rock, metal, blues and prog! 

Through my years I have always said I was a metal head.

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17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Because the vaccine isn’t 100% protection and therefore you can still catch it, more likely from some clown who refused a vaccine.

 I'll prefer not to have the vaccine but don't really understand what your problem is?

 

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5 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

The thing is H, people who advocate for further restrictions simply give cart blanch to the government that already interfere too much with how people live.

Getting the vaccine is not the issue but I for one will fight against a passport to go to a football game. many fought a war to fight against such restrictions as ID cards and being stopped on the street to prove who you are.


The passport idea will just be short term. A way to allow packed crowds back while we see what happens. In a year’s time I’d be arguing against it. 
 

Israel already have certificates for mass gatherings I think? They need renewed every few weeks or something to stop forgery. 

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3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Here we go again about getting the jab. I have had the first and will get the second when called. This is NOT about the vaccine this is about a passport to go about your daily life. 

That same old lady will have had the vaccine and is way better off and much less likely to get seriously ill or die so what difference does it make to have a bloody passport.

It makes a big difference imo. 

If there is a substantial amount of unvaccinated people at an event there is a good chance that they could infect each other as well as those already vaccinated. 

The main difference is that the unvaccinated have no protection and deaths could rise again. 

It's not their right to run the risk of infection as no doubt they would still expect the NHS to care for them at substantial cost to the taxpayer. 

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2 minutes ago, Geddyalexneil said:

Not totally! They have moments of metal in their catalogue. However I am someone who loves rock, metal, blues and prog! 

Through my years I have always said I was a metal head.

Music for the heart buddy. 🤘

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Heartsofgold
3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

The thing is H, people who advocate for further restrictions simply give cart blanch to the government that already interfere too much with how people live.

Getting the vaccine is not the issue but I for one will fight against a passport to go to a football game. many fought a war to fight against such restrictions as ID cards and being stopped on the street to prove who you are.

I totally understand that and unrestricted and unaudited Government is in no way what I want however, we elect leaders and need to trust that they have the (general) greater good in mind when the make decisions.  I know, I know that's naive in this day and age but I still believe it in my heart.

 

There are too many political and personal reasons surrounding this issue to go into on an internet forum.  Serious debate, around a table in a pub obviously, is what's needed, not a few comments that people type out whit a lack of context.  I honestly would love to have this debate face to face over a few pints of 80.

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26 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

This is a point that the passport advocators seem to be missing. The Vaccine will not stop you getting Covid. It will however reduce the effects and severity. Therefore it makes the passport obsolete as those who have had the jab have little to fear from those who have not, and those who have not, know the risks of catching it from someone vaccinated or not.

This debate is not about being vaccinated or not it's about you human rights not to have this inflicted on you. 

Why are the number of positive tests dropping like a stone since the mass vaccination programme started if the vaccine isn’t protecting against infection ?

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Geddyalexneil
Just now, jamboman9 said:

Music for the heart buddy. 🤘

Absolutely. 👍

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Ex member of the SaS
Just now, kila said:


The passport idea will just be short term. A way to allow packed crowds back while we see what happens. In a year’s time I’d be arguing against it. 
 

Israel already have certificates for mass gatherings I think? They need renewed every few weeks or something to stop forgery. 

You are naive if you think it will be short term. The Uk government has already asked for the covid power to be extended by six months and nothing to say they will even end then. 

Once the government hears people say ok it's fine for short term it gives them an opening to extend indefinitely. Never trust governments to remove power once it's gained.

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2 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

 I'll prefer not to have the vaccine but don't really understand what your problem is?

 

I’m not surprised you don’t understand much about the issue if you’re making a conscious decision not to be vaccinated. It’s irresponsible in my opinion

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Ex member of the SaS
2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It makes a big difference imo. 

If there is a substantial amount of unvaccinated people at an event there is a good chance that they could infect each other as well as those already vaccinated. 

The main difference is that the unvaccinated have no protection and deaths could rise again. 

It's not their right to run the risk of infection as no doubt they would still expect the NHS to care for them at substantial cost to the taxpayer. 

As stated the vaccine does not stop infection or transmission therefore the vaccinated could infect the non vaccinated just as easily. Adults have the right to make their own choices and if those who are vaccinated fear infection then stay home could be argued as easily as the other way round.

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kingantti1874
1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Sorry but this is wrong. Vaccines do NOT stop you catching any disease and only reduce the impact any virus has.


sorry that is utter nonsense. Its a view peddled by Facebook conspiracy groups, the  same groups who peddled the natural herd immunity line, and then contradict themselves peddling this junk

 

Not only do vaccines stop you catching the virus. If you do not develop symptoms you shed less virus. That’s is a stone cold fact

Edited by kingantti1874
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Ex member of the SaS
3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Why are the number of positive tests dropping like a stone since the mass vaccination programme started if the vaccine isn’t protecting against infection ?

How many times? This is not about a vaccine ( having or not ) this is about being forced to carry id.

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kingantti1874
Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

How many times? This is not about a vaccine ( having or not ) this is about being forced to carry id.


just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true. 

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  • JKBMod 3 changed the title to Vaccine passport to get into football and elsewhere...

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