How is this Budge’s decision

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

Reading through this thread makes me cringe.  For long time there have been spats on here about the "good work budge has done and the money she ponied up to save us" Most, including myself, have recognised from the outset that she was going to make a fortune out of this act of kindness to us but we were shouted down while her fans sent her flowers and chocolates. Now we see the true nature of the beast... someone who has gifted nearly every member of her family and circle of friends a morsel from the table... and she is not finished yet! And of course all the while her ineptitude has actually cost the club millions... but cost her not a penny! She will get the lot back with trimmings.

 

Not a very big family and circle of friends she's got, surprised at that. You'd think a lovely woman like her would have dozens at least.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, georgiehearts66 said:

I welcome and fully support any and all, pragmatic and especially accurate contributions made. No matter which side of the argument they represent.

 

I have no need to nor desire to cast character assassination towards anyone. People's posts will be judged on the accuracy and truth of their content.

"..... but I did it anyway". Seriously, what a load of pompous nonsense.

 

You made an outrageous accusation against one poster - no need to name him ,you know who it was - he's a very well informed & educated poster and you continue try to smear him in your catch all trashing of the less informed , deliberately trying to make out the debate is without any merit.

 

That's you role here - to convince people the questions being asked here have no merit, that it's just ignorant , emotional fans making personal slights against AB.  It won't work.  We've seen this kind of thing  before. 

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

If only Ann could demonstrate one hundredth of the ruthfulness in dealing with failed managers and DOF's as she seems to have done in her dealings with FOH

This in spades!

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Fox said:

The FOH could insist that the shares are transferred now but they would be extremely foolish to do so! The FOH haven’t got a ‘pot to piss in’! Doing the transfer now could cripple Hearts in the medium term. Leave Ann alone and let her do the honourable thing and hand Hearts over debt free.

♥️♥️♥️♥️

Lets send her an extra large chocolate Easter bunny and a huge bunch of lovely roses she is an absolute martyr to our cause and doing an amazing job... and of course as we all know she has never made a penny out of the whole thing 🤣 

[Jambo-Fox]

39 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You get my point ....

 

She seems honourable though, eh ? 

Blah blah blah again and again and again same old stuff on every thread .... never anything positive about Hearts (always negative) never anything constructive always critical .... how miserable ...

[Jambo-Fox]

41 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

foxy looking like he’s coming up short on the answer front

 

 

And here comes clique member ...

[Jambo-Fox]

13 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

Lets send her an extra large chocolate Easter bunny and a huge bunch of lovely roses she is an absolute martyr to our cause and doing an amazing job... and of course as we all know she has never made a penny out of the whole thing 🤣 

Do what you want, it’s your suggestion! 

[Jambo-Fox]

42 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

He knows, we all know what the "investment programme" really is but that opens up a can of worms people like him don't want to talk about. 

I’ll take that as a compliment - thanks!

Next a threat? Go on ...

[Jambo-Fox]

It’s all gone quiet! The clique must be in session! Clearly colluding and planning their next move! But who will be their spokesperson?

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

15 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

And here comes clique member ...

 

foxy still looking short on the answer front

 

 

 

 

[Jambo-Fox]

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

foxy still looking short on the answer front

 

 

 

 

And here he is, disappointingly low on content though .... 

[georgiehearts66]

21 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

"..... but I did it anyway". Seriously, what a load of pompous nonsense.

 

You made an outrageous accusation against one poster - no need to name him ,you know who it was - he's a very well informed & educated poster and you continue try to smear him in your catch all trashing of the less informed , deliberately trying to make out the debate is without any merit.

 

That's you role here - to convince people the questions being asked here have no merit, that it's just ignorant , emotional fans making personal slights against AB.  It won't work.  We've seen this kind of thing  before. 

I believe you are implying that I have been seeking to somehow undermine FF. Nothing is further from the truth. I hold him in very high regard and I am confident he is fully aware of that fact. We hold a different opinion on how to achieve the objective yet I am confident we would be side to side as to most other matters; including sharing a similar vision for the future success of the club.

 

It was in my plan to invite him for a drink when I am next back home. I'd like to meet him. He and I will have a lot in common.

 

Indeed, as I mentioned in a post yesterday. If we had thirty or so like him ready willing and able; I could perhaps be persuaded to embrace his route to achieving his vision.We only have one of him and many like you. You have every right to hold your opinion and to argue your case. 

 

I shall leave others to make up their own mind, whom between us matches your description of me.

 

A final point. I and the majority (often a silent part) are equally interested in achieving a continually successful team on the park. We do not believe knee jerk short term " cut of his head" methods are the best way, to address our current concerns. 

 

You attack my post/s on an emotional level. My posts seek to present current structure reality. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

14 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

And here he is, disappointingly low on content though .... 

 

some content above foxy from one or two posters where you appear to have run very dry on the answer front

 

[Jambo-Fox]

5 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

some content above foxy from one or two posters where you appear to have run very dry on the answer front

 

Interesting but ......... not very .........

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

18 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Interesting but ......... not very .........

So, to conclude, you are perfectly happy with the present situation where FoH members hand over money in perpetuity and Ann Budge decides herself when to transfer the shares?

[Riccarton3]

49 minutes ago, georgiehearts66 said:

I believe you are implying that I have been seeking to somehow undermine FF. Nothing is further from the truth. I hold him in very high regard and I am confident he is fully aware of that fact. We hold a different opinion on how to achieve the objective yet I am confident we would be side to side as to most other matters; including sharing a similar vision for the future success of the club.

 

It was in my plan to invite him for a drink when I am next back home. I'd like to meet him. He and I will have a lot in common.

 

Indeed, as I mentioned in a post yesterday. If we had thirty or so like him ready willing and able; I could perhaps be persuaded to embrace his route to achieving his vision.We only have one of him and many like you. You have every right to hold your opinion and to argue your case. 

 

I shall leave others to make up their own mind, whom between us matches your description of me.

 

A final point. I and the majority (often a silent part) are equally interested in achieving a continually successful team on the park. We do not believe knee jerk short term " cut of his head" methods are the best way, to address our current concerns. 

 

You attack my post/s on an emotional level. My posts seek to present current structure reality. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slow learning seems to be on both sides. But more so on the side of the current regime rather than ordinary supporters, whose natural role is to buy a pie and sit down, trusting those in charge have a clue.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Riccarton3

[iainmac]

Have Beattie Media been engaged again? 

 

This has got an awful similar feel to it. 

[Riccarton3]

35 minutes ago, iainmac said:

Have Beattie Media been engaged again? 

 

This has got an awful similar feel to it. 

Don't know that reference.

[soonbe110]

17 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Very true.

 

Do you not think it would have been a courtesy to at least be asked that our funds be redirected as working capital?

I think we were 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

59 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I think we were 

I think you're wrong

[soonbe110]

58 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I think you're wrong

Happy to agree to disagree but pretty certain it did happen. In any case once you have transferred your money the FoH board are allowed to do with it what they want as long as they stay within their articles and governance rules. 

[Footballfirst]

10 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Don't know that reference.

Chris Robinson used Beattie Media for his PR while at Hearts. It is suggested that he also used them on social media as influencers, including JKB.

 

Here is an official statement to the Stock Exchange from 2004

 

Tuesday 06 April, 2004

Heart Of Midlothian

Directorate Change

Heart Of Midlothian PLC
06 April 2004

Heart of Midlothian PLC ("Hearts", "the Club" or "the Company")
Appointment of new Chairman
The Directors of Hearts announce that The Right Honourable George Foulkes MP
will take over as Chairman of Hearts with immediate effect. He replaces outgoing
Chairman, Doug Smith, who has resigned from the Board also with immediate
effect.
Mr Foulkes was formerly Minister of State for Scotland and Under-Secretary of
State for International Development and has been an active supporter of the Club
for over twenty years. There are no further details requiring disclosure under
paragraph 6.F.2 of the FSA Listing Rules in respect of Mr Foulkes' appointment.

Enquiries:

Niall Scott, Beattie Media                 07711 223062
Chris Robinson, Heart of Midlothian        0131 200 7245

Edited April 5, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Mars plastic]

20 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Yep, it’s not as if there’s been a worldwide pandemic and the club has had virtually no income for the last 9 months and at the moment no idea when it will start generating income again. Do you think the club runs on fresh air? 

All the other clubs in Scotland seemed to have managed ok in the pandemic without the £150K bonus money we receive every month. This pandemic is all very convenient for club shills like you to roll out the endless excuses for the mess the club is in.

[David Black]

If it's true AB has FoH by the short and curlies over when the shares can be transferred, then two issues come to mind, why has this June (?) been mentioned by both and if she does hold all the aces, then surely the FoH lawyer has done a pretty poor job by failing to see his members money is being/has been used for its intended purpose.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, David Black said:

If it's true AB has FoH by the short and curlies over when the shares can be transferred, then two issues come to mind, why has this June (?) been mentioned by both and if she does hold all the aces, then surely the FoH lawyer has done a pretty poor job by failing to see his members money is being/has been used for its intended purpose.

June 2020 was mentioned, aligned with last year's publication of the club annual accounts. . Then end of this season was mentioned by FOH earlier this year. Ann in her recent statements (about "handing over"!) the shares said she "hoped" it would before next season. Or maybe later if vague unspecified details could not be resolved by then. And it was important to do it with fans allowed back to Tynie to celebrate. All fans, some of them, vaccinated or negatively tested fans only?  I conclude it might be this year but wouldn't hold my breath.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Mars plastic said:

All the other clubs in Scotland seemed to have managed ok in the pandemic without the £150K bonus money we receive every month. This pandemic is all very convenient for club shills like you to roll out the endless excuses for the mess the club is in.

Don’t think that’s an accurate statement. Aberdeen, Hibs et al haemorrhaging money as can be seen from financial results they have released. Some premiership clubs taken out loans from Scottish government. All clubs below premiership received grants that, together with furlough, probably more than covered their financial shortfall over last twelve months. Our cost structure is still at premiership levels so that’s why a year in championship is financially painful. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, David Black said:

If it's true AB has FoH by the short and curlies over when the shares can be transferred, then two issues come to mind, why has this June (?) been mentioned by both and if she does hold all the aces, then surely the FoH lawyer has done a pretty poor job by failing to see his members money is being/has been used for its intended purpose.

Think it was June 20 that was originally planned and mentioned at agm but COVID took care of that 

[David Black]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

June 2020 was mentioned, aligned with last year's publication of the club annual accounts. . Then end of this season was mentioned by FOH earlier this year. Ann in her recent statements (about "handing over"!) the shares said she "hoped" it would before next season. Or maybe later if vague unspecified details could not be resolved by then. And it was important to do it with fans allowed back to Tynie to celebrate. All fans, some of them, vaccinated or negatively tested fans only?  I conclude it might be this year but wouldn't hold my breath.

What she achieved in the first 3 years and the adulation she got, she has magically destroyed by her attitude and performance over the past 4 years. To go from that high to this low is quite an achievement. In my book now she is up there with Robinson and Romanov and again that is some achievement.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, David Black said:

If it's true AB has FoH by the short and curlies over when the shares can be transferred, then two issues come to mind, why has this June (?) been mentioned by both and if she does hold all the aces, then surely the FoH lawyer has done a pretty poor job by failing to see his members money is being/has been used for its intended purpose.

I think the agreement uses words like "free of any encumbrance".

One must assume AB will want therefore to hold firm until her loan is repaid or, less likely, will write off the loan at some point of her choosing.

Maybe FF can comment if my assumptions are valid.

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Don’t think that’s an accurate statement. Aberdeen, Hibs et al haemorrhaging money as can be seen from financial results they have released. Some premiership clubs taken out loans from Scottish government. All clubs below premiership received grants that, together with furlough, probably more than covered their financial shortfall over last twelve months. Our cost structure is still at premiership levels so that’s why a year in championship is financially painful. 

What about the 13k SPL level season tickets we’ve sold? Pandemic aside, the club should be financially sustainable, as it had been from 1874 to 2014, without donations from 8000 fans. 
 

The Foundation money should be seen as an extra over and as such should have seen us light years ahead of where we are now, not getting our trousers removed from FC Naebdy from the Sunday Ams Highland Coo League. 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

What about the 13k SPL level season tickets we’ve sold? Pandemic aside, the club should be financially sustainable, as it had been from 1874 to 2014, without donations from 8000 fans. 
 

The Foundation money should be seen as an extra over and as such should have seen us light years ahead of where we are now, not getting our trousers removed from FC Naebdy from the Sunday Ams Highland Coo League. 

Those 13k season tickets will have helped the cash situation to an extent but a large chunk of them still sit on the balance sheet as a future liability in the form of discounts on next seasons tickets. No walk-up income for over 12 months heading into summer when income is scarce other than season ticket money. No food and beverage income at games for 12 months and no sign of crowds getting back into games yet. Significantly reduced prize money for being in championship. Do I need to spell it out anymore? 

[Shanks]

When all is said and done it's the hearts support that will have lost money and it will be us that have saved the club.

 

Budge gave us a loan of money (plus interest) she's essentially a bank that has ran the club badly for years now, made millions out of us and gave family members millions as well.

 

I thank her for giving us the original loan and allowing us to save the club, her and her family have done very very well out of the transaction.

 

It's now time for her to go.

[Mars plastic]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Those 13k season tickets will have helped the cash situation to an extent but a large chunk of them still sit on the balance sheet as a future liability in the form of discounts on next seasons tickets. No walk-up income for over 12 months heading into summer when income is scarce other than season ticket money. No food and beverage income at games for 12 months and no sign of crowds getting back into games yet. Significantly reduced prize money for being in championship. Do I need to spell it out anymore? 

As I’ve already said, other clubs seem to be managing fine without a monthly bung of £150k. Do I need to spell that out too?

 

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I think the agreement uses words like "free of any encumbrance".

One must assume AB will want therefore to hold firm until her loan is repaid or, less likely, will write off the loan at some point of her choosing.

Maybe FF can comment if my assumptions are valid.

You mean we have to wait until Ann clears out the Robbie and the rest of the management team, most of the coaching staff, and 90% of the playing squad before FOH can get the shares?

 

But I think that wording is to protect the buyer not the seller.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Francis Albert

[David Black]

Ann Budge could walk away tomorrow with an agreement that she is paid what she is owed over a period of say 5 years. That would be more than achievable by FOH and would certainly not impact on her wealth. She would be able to enjoy her retirement, spend time on her yacht, spend time with family and generally relax without the endless criticism she is now getting. From the clubs point, it would be a fresh start from top to bottom. Have fresh eyes looking into every aspect of the club and what each individual actually does. She could then walk away with some dignity and we would be grateful for all her earlier work. Then again, her ego is the problem.

[bawheed]

15 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Not a very big family and circle of friends she's got, surprised at that. You'd think a lovely woman like her would have dozens at least.

Spot on been saying the same for over a year, got banned from JKB for pointing out the truth.

[Footballfirst]

47 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I think the agreement uses words like "free of any encumbrance".

One must assume AB will want therefore to hold firm until her loan is repaid or, less likely, will write off the loan at some point of her choosing.

Maybe FF can comment if my assumptions are valid.

From the agreement:

"Encumbrance" means any mortgage, charge, pledge, lien or other security interest and any option or right to acquire;

 

However, as far as the transfer is concerned the "encumbrance" only relates to the shares themselves.  e.g. the shares currently held by Bidco cannot be held as security against any borrowing when transferred.

 

As I posted earlier in the thread, there is a general provision for Bidco to unilaterally amend the terms of the agreement as long as "Bidco shall have regard to all relevant circumstances, including the commercial interests of the Foundation in their capacity as participants under this agreement."  That would leave it open for AB, if she was so minded, to delay the transfer until the club was both financially stable and debt free (a bit like the expectations set in the original agreement seven years ago - keep the pledges coming to provide working capital and pay off my loan, then I will hand over the shares).

 

I'd hope that AB will think very deeply before embarking on such a course of action, unless she has invoked those powers already.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Footballfirst

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Mars plastic said:

As I’ve already said, other clubs seem to be managing fine without a monthly bung of £150k. Do I need to spell that out too?

 

No they aren’t, that’s just the point - they are taking on debt eg Killie, Livingston or they are asking existing shareholders to stump up more money eg Rangers, Aberdeen. 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

From the agreement:

"Encumbrance" means any mortgage, charge, pledge, lien or other security interest and any option or right to acquire;

 

However, as far as the transfer is concerned the "encumbrance" only relates to the shares themselves.  e.g. the shares currently held by Bidco cannot be held as security against any borrowing when transferred.

 

As I posted earlier in the thread, there is a general provision for Bidco to unilaterally amend the terms of the agreement as long as "Bidco shall have regard to all relevant circumstances, including the commercial interests of the Foundation in their capacity as participants under this agreement."  That would leave it open for AB, if she was so minded, to delay the transfer until the club was both financially stable and debt free (a bit like the expectations set in the original agreement seven years ago - keep the pledges coming to provide working capital and pay off my loan, then I will hand over the shares).

 

I'd hope that AB will think very deeply before embarking on such a course of action, unless she has invoked those powers already.

Ann may not have much of an eye for football managers and DOFs but when it comes to lawyers to look after her own interests wow ... how did they get away with that and how did FOH's lawyers let them? It kind of sums up the lapdog relationship betewen FOH and Ann. 

 

The debt free requirement or aim is also dangerous nonsense. Few business, and even fewer efficiently run businesses operate debt free. it is an extremely restrictive requirement for any commercial business. Ann's latest loans to the club are "at market rates" according to the club's Annual Report and so must be at very low rates and manageable ... if the business is competently run.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

38 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Ann may not have much of an eye for football managers and DOFs but when it comes to lawyers to look after her own interests wow ... how did they get away with that and how did FOH's lawyers let them? It kind of sums up the lapdog relationship betewen FOH and Ann. 

 

The debt free requirement or aim is also dangerous nonsense. Few business, and even fewer efficiently run businesses operate debt free. it is an extremely restrictive requirement for any commercial business. Ann's latest loans to the club are "at market rates" according to the club's Annual Report and so must be at very low rates and manageable ... if the business is competently run.

Read Ian Murray’s book for his take on the terms offered by Ann/Bidco. Basically a take it or leave it situation.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Glamorgan Jambo said:

Read Ian Murray’s book for his take on the terms offered by Ann/Bidco. Basically a take it or leave it situation.

Indeed. And how strange this ruthless streak which no doubt helped her to make and keep her millions does not extend to her handling of key employees at Hearts.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Glamorgan Jambo]

42 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Indeed. And how strange this ruthless streak which no doubt helped her to make and keep her millions does not extend to her handling of key employees at Hearts.

 

Unless she comes out and straight up tells her story after we've left we'll never know.

 

I have experience of a couple of workplaces where a couple of fairly useless people were kept on for way longer than they should have been because the owner/decision maker remembered something they'd personally helped them out with years earlier. Look at how guys like for example Rupert Murdoch hangs on to someone like Rebeka Wade/Brooks or whatever she's currently called years after she last did something of note. Loyalty is a very valued trait by certain types of people. No idea whether this is the situation with Ann but she pretty quickly brought in former colleagues to help with the non football side of things (not unsuccessfully I should add). And no I'm not talking about the stand construction project.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Just now, Glamorgan Jambo said:

 

Unless she comes out and straight up tells her story after we've left we'll never know.

 

I have experience of a couple of workplaces where a couple of fairly useless people were kept on for way longer than they should have been because the owner/decision maker remembered something they'd personally helped them out with years earlier. Look at how guys like for example Rupert Murdoch hangs on to someone like Rebeka Wade/Brooks or whatever she's currently called years after she last did something of note. Loyalty is a very valued trait by certain types of people. No idea whether this is the situation with Ann but she pretty quickly brought in former colleagues to help with the non football side of things (not unsuccessfully I should add). And no I'm not talking about the stand construction project.

..after she's left..

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

No they aren’t, that’s just the point - they are taking on debt eg Killie, Livingston or they are asking existing shareholders to stump up more money eg Rangers, Aberdeen. 

Almost all of their "football departments" seem to be doing quite a bit  better than ours. Livingston are in the top 6. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Mars plastic]

35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Almost all of their "football departments" seem to be doing quite a bit  better than ours. Livingston are in the top 6. 

You're debating with a poster who believed, and perhaps still does, that Levein would run rings around Steve Clarke in the managerial stakes. 

[pennyjambo22]

On 04/04/2021 at 13:24, BarneyBattles said:

I put up a poll a couple of weeks back asking if the share transfer should happen now. 
 

Hardly anyone voted. I was hoping if loads of folk had answered we could pass it to FOH in the hope the shares could be transferred now rather than wait for a party on the plaza. 

Who wants or needs a party on the plaza! It’s public floggings on the plaza that’s required. I’ve toned it down from public hangings. Then a winning 1st team on the park. Too much to ask🤔

[soonbe110]

33 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

You're debating with a poster who believed, and perhaps still does, that Levein would run rings around Steve Clarke in the managerial stakes. 

Let’s see where Clarke goes next. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Almost all of their "football departments" seem to be doing quite a bit  better than ours. Livingston are in the top 6. 

Who was talking about what’s happening on the park ? The discussion was about funding Scottish football clubs regardless of their on pitch performances. 

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Ann may not have much of an eye for football managers and DOFs but when it comes to lawyers to look after her own interests wow ... how did they get away with that and how did FOH's lawyers let them? It kind of sums up the lapdog relationship betewen FOH and Ann. 

 

The debt free requirement or aim is also dangerous nonsense. Few business, and even fewer efficiently run businesses operate debt free. it is an extremely restrictive requirement for any commercial business. Ann's latest loans to the club are "at market rates" according to the club's Annual Report and so must be at very low rates and manageable ... if the business is competently run.

Payment of the interest is rarely the challenge with debt. Repayment of the capital sum is another matter. 

[billybalfour]

I note the Plaza bar is opening on the 26th.At least it gives a meeting place with alcohol available to allow the fans to express themselves about Neilson and Budge.I am a bit old for it but wouldn't be surprised to see it becoming a lively place for face to face debates of the points being discussed here.it might not be open very long if things get any more toxic.

Personally I'd like to see FOH doing a bit more but I really think they should have at least 1 or 2 paid employees to communicate with the fans as it is too big a task for volunteers.

It might even be worthwhile for the FOH to arrange to be there to answer some questions face to face if it can be kept civil.