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Some data regarding our commitment to youth ( merged )


Skippy Doodle

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9 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

For example this is a better comparison (also how England is doing better)

 

 

20210329_232537.jpg


Alhough as Leeds keeper is u22 that will rack up the minutes

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Skippy Doodle
33 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

Get out of bed the wrong side this morning? Even if it has been discussed previously, I don't recall it being broken down in the same detail as this thread. I'm taking the OP's thread for what it appears...some solid facts put out there for those of us to discuss and give our views. Your post contributes absolutely nothing to the thread so I'm not sure why you even bothered. Some good posts on here with most folk up for decent debates. We won't always agree on things but healthy debate is good for the mind in my view and I rnjoy kickback for what it is....a forum for discussion! Rant over😉

Hear hear. I just want fans to engage in debate that goes beyond the simple Neilson and budge out. Part of the reason the MSM are so perplexed by the recent protests is because they Think this is just some emotional knee jerk reaction to last Tuesday. I don’t deny that was not a watershed moment but this has been brewing with many (including myself ) guilty of sleep walking through it all

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3 minutes ago, Skippy Doodle said:

Hear hear. I just want fans to engage in debate that goes beyond the simple Neilson and budge out. Part of the reason the MSM are so perplexed by the recent protests is because they Think this is just some emotional knee jerk reaction to last Tuesday. I don’t deny that was not a watershed moment but this has been brewing with many (including myself ) guilty of sleep walking through it all

If the board and management think those protests were a knee jerk reaction to the Brora defeat then they really are out of touch with the fans. Christ, thats other same scale as politicians being out of touch with us minions on the ground skippy 😂😂 for me, Tuesday was the final straw. I've said this before but, IMO with squad we have we really should be blowing the other teams away (no disrespect meant to the rest of the league when I say that either). I would accept the odd game here and there where we just can't breakthrough but it's practically every game. We proved on Saturday that we can exert pressure and get goals but we don't do it often enough and we concede too many soft goals. 

 

As much as I liked Robbie for the decent, solid pro he was I really think he's limited as a manager. We want to win yes, but we also want entertained. Real life is challenging enough for many, especially now so a wee bit escapism for 90mins surely isn't too much to ask?

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1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Keena and Godinho can't really be described as Academy products. Petkov was another late arrival.

 

And then you have the totally meaningless games, i.e. the last game of the season away to Killie 2 years ago when we gave about 8 kids a game for them never to be seen again.

Edited by Armageddon
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Here's an uneducated personal opinion of footballers in general - they're over-coached, supressed by coaches and managers who don't really know what they want those players to do, let the players play and not be treated like robots - defenders I know will be making certain plays, but let the rest flourish.  For me the likes of McDonald and Cochrane have been stifled with negative coaching, McDonald has had the best training stats of any youth player at Hearts, Cammy Logan has the best fitness stats at Hearts of any youth player.  But watch them fail to get a place in the team because they are being coached to an inch of their life with no real decision making skills.  Anthony McDonald should be on that pitch with only one or two instructions and playing the game.

 

You ever see really young kids who when they get the ball they stop and turn to their dad for instructions because they have not got a clue what to do, or they can't play the game the way their natural ability lets them, that's how I see our Youth.

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Rogue Daddy
9 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

Here's an uneducated personal opinion of footballers in general - they're over-coached, supressed by coaches and managers who don't really know what they want those players to do, let the players play and not be treated like robots - defenders I know will be making certain plays, but let the rest flourish.  For me the likes of McDonald and Cochrane have been stifled with negative coaching, McDonald has had the best training stats of any youth player at Hearts, Cammy Logan has the best fitness stats at Hearts of any youth player.  But watch them fail to get a place in the team because they are being coached to an inch of their life with no real decision making skills.  Anthony McDonald should be on that pitch with only one or two instructions and playing the game.

 

You ever see really young kids who when they get the ball they stop and turn to their dad for instructions because they have not got a clue what to do, or they can't play the game the way their natural ability lets them, that's how I see our Youth.

I know what you mean.... I watched the Jack Charlton documentary last night - great viewing.... and what he said about his defenders is similar to what you're saying. In the program he said "...I never go for defenders that can 'play', I want my defenders to defend, head, tackle... not 'play'."

Now I know football has moved on and these days (unfortunately) it's all about 'procession' and 'playing out from the back' which i really don't 'get'. Fine for Barcelona - but not everyone's Barcelona!

But there definitely seems to be a switch in attitudes to coaching (and style of football) these days which is (and I fecking hate hearing this word) 'fashionable'. Another JC saying - KISS, keep it simple stupid - ... it didn't do him any harm with Ireland.

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portobellojambo1
1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:


There is a belief that academy players develop better when they are essentially left to their own devices (within reason) and not over-coached. It makes them learn to think for themselves and mature. 
 

Just saying 🤷‍♂️

Is that not the very successful way it works, or worked, in Holland, where until they were close to first team football the kids were just brought up to play football without the interference of coaches and tactics etc. I've often felt that nowadays kids are bombarded with coaching and tactics, often to the deteriment of their natural ability.

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Nookie Bear
22 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

Is that not the very successful way it works, or worked, in Holland, where until they were close to first team football the kids were just brought up to play football without the interference of coaches and tactics etc. I've often felt that nowadays kids are bombarded with coaching and tactics, often to the deteriment of their natural ability.


The Barca academy had done it for years. 

Not saying the kids just turn up, choose teams and then have a kickabout, they are just left alone during practice games to work it out for themselves with no coaching. 

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Here's another thought “Box Soccer is just a pish franchise”.  It's produced Ryan Guald, who was going to make it anyway, but been totally pointless.

 

We have not produced one defender, one midfielder or one striker.

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One note from here from me on the stats is that the number of debuts since 2018 is a moot figure.  A crazy amount of debuts were given out by Levein in 17/18 mostly to kids who weren't ready.  Of course, that is a direct indictment of the recruitment and squad balance at that point, which was absolutely on his watch.

 

Mins on the pitch for academy grads, or perhaps players under 23 is the litmus here.  We've failed miserably last 2 years in that respect, giving contracts to shite or if not shite, guys with no longterm added value, instead of giving a real go to some of our lads.  Especially prevalant this season.

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Saint Jambo
2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Keena and Godinho can't really be described as Academy products. Petkov was another late arrival.

 

I think that is unfair. Part of the role of an Academy is to identify young players at other clubs that can be brought in.

 

The argument about Hickey made in other posts is particularly weird. The Celtic Academy should get all the credit for not being able to convince a player that they were going to give him opportunities, who then went on to be making appearances in Serie A at 18. Hearts Academy deserves no credit for identifying that Hickey was worth brining back to the club and getting him ready for the first team. 

 

If the argument is that we want to judge how technically proficient the Academy is at developing players from scratch, then surely we should be looking at players who are the opposite of Hickey, Keena and Godinho. So players like Marc Leonard would count in the Academy's favour.

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1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

One note from here from me on the stats is that the number of debuts since 2018 is a moot figure.  A crazy amount of debuts were given out by Levein in 17/18 mostly to kids who weren't ready.  Of course, that is a direct indictment of the recruitment and squad balance at that point, which was absolutely on his watch.

 

Mins on the pitch for academy grads, or perhaps players under 23 is the litmus here.  We've failed miserably last 2 years in that respect, giving contracts to shite or if not shite, guys with no longterm added value, instead of giving a real go to some of our lads.  Especially prevalant this season.

 

There has been a total disregard to long term planning around the squad. I realise we can't plan out a squad more than maybe 3 years in advance, but we've clearly been taking too many guys who are late 20s with no development potential. 

 

The lack of faith shown in the youngsters has been really disappointing. This was the season to let Cochrane, McDonald, Irving & Smith stake a claim into the first team. McDonald was let go with no fight shown to keep him. The rest punted out on loan rather than coaching them directly and forming the players Robbie wants. Its ****ing lazy and doesn't speak to our own coaches faith in themselves to develop young talent. 

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2 hours ago, Armageddon said:

Here's an uneducated personal opinion of footballers in general - they're over-coached, supressed by coaches and managers who don't really know what they want those players to do, let the players play and not be treated like robots - defenders I know will be making certain plays, but let the rest flourish.  For me the likes of McDonald and Cochrane have been stifled with negative coaching, McDonald has had the best training stats of any youth player at Hearts, Cammy Logan has the best fitness stats at Hearts of any youth player.  But watch them fail to get a place in the team because they are being coached to an inch of their life with no real decision making skills.  Anthony McDonald should be on that pitch with only one or two instructions and playing the game.

 

You ever see really young kids who when they get the ball they stop and turn to their dad for instructions because they have not got a clue what to do, or they can't play the game the way their natural ability lets them, that's how I see our Youth.

It certainly seems this way. Perhaps we have invested too much in an army of coaches and not simply allowed players to do their thing and flourish.

 

The same seems to be true of senior players who fail to show their worth at Hearts. Not trying to write-off McEneff just yet but he is already playing out of position and seems to have lost the energy he showed in the first few games.

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kingantti1874

Said it before. I would be far more patient if we were giving youth a chance.

 

resuce wage bill £5m, use the £3m to buy sign and pay the best young players we can get our hands on.. 

 

then ****ing play them

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Also, grouping kids by year is a pile of nonsense for me and then separating them by ability in those year groups, ok i'm not earning £4,600 per week from playing football, but playing a game going in to tackles with someone 12 months or so older than me, to then be passing to a boy may be a year younger was part of the game, if you were good enough then you were in and the knocks made you.

 

Football, actually sport in general, is faaaaaaaar too deliberate.  The answer is Chris Hoy (not Andy Murray), but when did Scotland produce an elite sportsman?  Andy Murray was born into a tennis bubble due to his mum's work and passion - Sir Chris wasn't in that bubble, he just worked harder than anyone else on the planet.

 

See in training and drills I was one of the best in my group, see in a match, I was absolutely terrible, unpickable.  I see some great golf swings out there, guys on the range pounding balls, can these guys get their way round a golf course?  It's a totally different thing, training drills aren't the same as playing matches.

 

Coach coach coach, if in doubt, coach coach coach, problem with technique? coach coach coach - why not practice practice practice?

I bet if our first team played games in training 100% of the time they would improve, swapping positions and shapes every 30 minutes, no cones, no stopping passages of play to discuss them.

 

EVERY elite athlete on this planet does the basics better and for longer than anyone else, we can't even do the basics, it's like we skip the basics.  Robbie just loves getting the cones out, it's a pile of pish.

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Rogue Daddy
Just now, kingantti1874 said:

Said it before. I would be far more patient if we were giving youth a chance.

 

resuce wage bill £5m, use the £3m to buy sign and pay the best young players we can get our hands on.. 

 

then ****ing play them

Absolutely. Bringing through youngsters should be a priority for all football clubs, not just ours. We should also be one of the top 3 choices in Scotland, for budding youngsters... just look at our facilities, they're fantastic! Why are we not producing more? Why are they not getting a chance? Hearts should be the club that Scottish talent WANT to come to!? ...but it all starts at the top.

Going forward, this is something that has to be addressed - especially now that Brexit is upon us... a great youth production line is equally as important as putting a winning team on the pitch. If we have a successful youth program - the first team should (in time) look after itself.

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been here before
4 hours ago, hmfcbilly said:

Get out of bed the wrong side this morning? Even if it has been discussed previously, I don't recall it being broken down in the same detail as this thread. I'm taking the OP's thread for what it appears...some solid facts put out there for those of us to discuss and give our views. Your post contributes absolutely nothing to the thread so I'm not sure why you even bothered. Some good posts on here with most folk up for decent debates. We won't always agree on things but healthy debate is good for the mind in my view and I rnjoy kickback for what it is....a forum for discussion! Rant over😉

 

You are aware that was posted on another thread before it was merged with this one?

 

Good rant though, if a little pointless.

 

👍

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Lone Striker
30 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Absolutely. Bringing through youngsters should be a priority for all football clubs, not just ours. We should also be one of the top 3 choices in Scotland, for budding youngsters... just look at our facilities, they're fantastic! Why are we not producing more? Why are they not getting a chance? Hearts should be the club that Scottish talent WANT to come to!? ...but it all starts at the top.

Going forward, this is something that has to be addressed - especially now that Brexit is upon us... a great youth production line is equally as important as putting a winning team on the pitch. If we have a successful youth program - the first team should (in time) look after itself.

Agreed.     Don't we get some SFA funding for Oriam because it meets their "elite" status criteria ?      If so, does the criteria include giving a set number of minutes in the first team to academy players ?  Or is it just about employing coaches who've been through "elite" coaching courses ?    @Footballfirst can hopefully explain ?

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Footballfirst
7 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Agreed.     Don't we get some SFA funding for Oriam because it meets their "elite" status criteria ?      If so, does the criteria include giving a set number of minutes in the first team to academy players ?  Or is it just about employing coaches who've been through "elite" coaching courses ?    @Footballfirst can hopefully explain ?

Yes we do get funding based on facilities, coaching excellence and youth player achievements (Scotland youth caps, full time contracts, first team debuts).  Hearts is one of eight Elite academies.

 

The SFA describes it as:

Applicant clubs were graded according to a criteria-based system and an assessment of measurable performance outcomes (MPOs).  Enhanced funding for achieving MPOs will encourage best practice, with the objective of Project Brave to harness the success of the strategic plan and ensure a more efficient pathway to first-team football.

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Rogue Daddy
7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Yes we do get funding based on facilities, coaching excellence and youth player achievements (Scotland youth caps, full time contracts, first team debuts).  Hearts is one of eight Elite academies.

 

The SFA describes it as:

Applicant clubs were graded according to a criteria-based system and an assessment of measurable performance outcomes (MPOs).  Enhanced funding for achieving MPOs will encourage best practice, with the objective of Project Brave to harness the success of the strategic plan and ensure a more efficient pathway to first-team football.

Thanks for that FF 👍 Safe to say (it appears) we're not exactly making good use of said facilities and funding... which in itself should be a sackable (or at the very least, disciplinary) offence.

How can we have so much money, amongst the best facilities.... and still not offer a single game to ONE youth product this season*... remember, we're in the fecking championship!

 

 

*That hasn't already featured before this season.

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Footballfirst
1 minute ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Thanks for that FF 👍 Safe to say (it appears) we're not exactly making good use of said facilities and funding... which in itself should be a sackable (or at the very least, disciplinary) offence.

How can we have so much money, amongst the best facilities.... and still not offer a single game to ONE youth product this season*... remember, we're in the fecking championship!

 

 

*That hasn't already featured before this season.

Scott McGill did make his debut this season, but has been overlooked since.

 

To be fair to all clubs, the shut down of reserve/youth football hasn't helped unless you have a small squad and have been able to accommodate the full time youths into your fist team squad/bubble (including Covid testing etc).

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47 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Said it before. I would be far more patient if we were giving youth a chance.

 

resuce wage bill £5m, use the £3m to buy sign and pay the best young players we can get our hands on.. 

 

then ****ing play them

 

Totally agree. Think everyone is prepared to put short termism to one side if there is a vision and goal to buy into. 

 

Part of my disappointment is that phrases like 'overhaul' were used in relation to the academy leading me to believe alongside other quotes that it would be a focal point of our footballing strategy. 

 

My view is that we need to invest in a coach that believes in the academy and is comfortable with the idea of losing because of youngsters errors/inexperience. If we can focus squarely on youth for 5 years and evaluate where we are then, I think we'll see a noted difference from where we are currently. Every journeyman Neilson signs is aimed at personal glory than any attempt to facilitate a long term plan for the club. Its about getting quick results so his stats look better. 

 

We need more youth in the team, we need a coach that will play, trust, coach and mentor them effectively. 

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Rogue Daddy
1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

Scott McGill did make his debut this season, but has been overlooked since.

 

To be fair to all clubs, the shut down of reserve/youth football hasn't helped unless you have a small squad and have been able to accommodate the full time youths into your fist team squad/bubble (including Covid testing etc).

My mistake, you're right - Scott McGill... However, there's no doubting that COVID has played a huge part with regards to game time for anyone under 'elite' football, but if the OP's figures are correct (and I've no reason to doubt them - but not checked for myself)... the last 3 seasons makes grim reading. Especially with the facilities at hand, more attention has to be spent here sooner rather than later.... or we're just going to get a never-ending line of has-been journeymen that are not up to scratch.

 

Number of youth players given their debut
 
14-15 - (9)
15-16 - (3)
16-17 - (3)
17-18 - (11)
18-19 - (1)
19-20 - (0)
20-21 - (1)
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Lone Striker
27 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Yes we do get funding based on facilities, coaching excellence and youth player achievements (Scotland youth caps, full time contracts, first team debuts).  Hearts is one of eight Elite academies.

 

The SFA describes it as:

Applicant clubs were graded according to a criteria-based system and an assessment of measurable performance outcomes (MPOs).  Enhanced funding for achieving MPOs will encourage best practice, with the objective of Project Brave to harness the success of the strategic plan and ensure a more efficient pathway to first-team football.

Cheers FF.  The flip side of the same coin we're moaning about is that a few of our most promising academy players decided to leave over the last decade - presumably because they (or their parents) felt they wouldn't get a proper chance  to further their careers here.  The likes of Adam King, Jay Fulton, Marc Leonard, Anthony McDonald  (maybe Hickey the first time too ?).    McDonald did get a few 1st team games, but he felt he deserved more.  Leonard was scathing about Hearts style of play.     So the "success" of our academy (if its based on Hearts 1st team appearances by our youths) doesn't quite tell the whole story.

 

 

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Footballfirst
2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Cheers FF.  The flip side of the same coin we're moaning about is that a few of our most promising academy players decided to leave over the last decade - presumably because they (or their parents) felt they wouldn't get a proper chance  to further their careers here.  The likes of Adam King, Jay Fulton, Marc Leonard, Anthony McDonald  (maybe Hickey the first time too ?).    McDonald did get a few 1st team games, but he felt he deserved more.  Leonard was scathing about Hearts style of play.     So the "success" of our academy (if its based on Hearts 1st team appearances by our youths) doesn't quite tell the whole story.

I've spoken to Adam King's dad previously. Adam didn't want to leave, but felt pressurised to go because Hearts needed the money during the Admin season 2013/14.

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Rogue Daddy
13 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Cheers FF.  The flip side of the same coin we're moaning about is that a few of our most promising academy players decided to leave over the last decade - presumably because they (or their parents) felt they wouldn't get a proper chance  to further their careers here.  The likes of Adam King, Jay Fulton, Marc Leonard, Anthony McDonald  (maybe Hickey the first time too ?).    McDonald did get a few 1st team games, but he felt he deserved more.  Leonard was scathing about Hearts style of play.     So the "success" of our academy (if its based on Hearts 1st team appearances by our youths) doesn't quite tell the whole story.

 

 

Yeah, good point, you're right... and I don't know what's worse?! The fact that we're not producing enough... or the fact that we actually are producing and not giving opportunities!?

Either way... it's not good enough, there's something very wrong here that needs looked at.

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Tokyo Drifter
8 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

18/19 was the season we got all those injuries as well

 

Levein absolutely bottled the big chance to just play the kids. 
 

I reckon if he’d played the kids fans would have had a lot more patience with the injuries. Because we would not have been watching dud journeymen 

 

The big big major major one for me that’s not in OP though:

 

The club has not produced a decent Center half since Christophe Berra. Made his debut in 2003. 18 years.


To be fair the whole country has basically not produced one since then but still. Are there just no defenders anymore? The kids obsession with attacking football on the Xbox has gone too far. We’ve got grant ****ing Hanley still getting caps. 
 

SOS The nation needs defenders. 

I hear you about centre backs, but the one area we have consistently produced players is defence generally, if you look at guys like Paterson and Hickey. Where we've been sorely lacking for about 25 years is in producing forwards. I've been going to Tynie since about 1993 and I can't think of a single decent striker who has come through whereas the Flumps have turned out for or five in that time.

 

As for Levein not giving the youngsters a chance, I think he did: last big breakthrough prior to Hickey was Harry Cochrane and that came in the 4-0 game v Celtic.

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I think any manager would be delighted if a youngster comes through that sticks out in training and will add to the first team.  What manager is going to overlook someone who will improve the first team?!

 

Hickey came in and was fantastic on a weekly basis, he stuck out as a quality player. Most of the others in recent years have only done it for the odd game at best. Irving and Henderson, and McGill earlier in the season are obviously doing enough to warrant being part of the first team squad. 

 

I don't buy into the fact that it's the managers fault that lots of youngsters aren't coming through. If they are good enough they force the managers hand.

 

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A_A wehatethehibs
22 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

I hear you about centre backs, but the one area we have consistently produced players is defence generally, if you look at guys like Paterson and Hickey. Where we've been sorely lacking for about 25 years is in producing forwards. I've been going to Tynie since about 1993 and I can't think of a single decent striker who has come through whereas the Flumps have turned out for or five in that time.

 

As for Levein not giving the youngsters a chance, I think he did: last big breakthrough prior to Hickey was Harry Cochrane and that came in the 4-0 game v Celtic.


Neither Paterson nor Hickey are “defenders” in my opinion. By defender I mean a player whose main primary strong suit is his defending IE he doesny let a player past him. The last defenders we produced were Lee Wallace and Christophe Berra. 
 

As for strikers we played the best striker we have produced at Right Back. I will never understand Paterson at Right Back. Never. Apparently he just wanted / demanded to play there? He never understood the position at all for me positionally. And his strong suit was always his instincts in the box... so why not ****ing play him in the box then?! John Mcglynn was right. And has been proved right with what’s happened subsequently when Paterson went to England. Hardly played 1 game at Right back since he left Hearts. 
 

Re Levein bottling playing the kids, I was talking specifically about the 18-19 season. In 17-18 he played plenty, then he signed a bunch of journeymen 

Edited by A_A wehatethehibs
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3 hours ago, been here before said:

 

You are aware that was posted on another thread before it was merged with this one?

 

Good rant though, if a little pointless.

 

👍

I wasn't aware no. 

 

Not as pointless as your winge about it being discussed on another thread mind....maybe just me but I mustve missed the constructive point to your post 😘

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upgotheheads

Our two most successful young players of the last 10 years (imo) Aaron Hickey and Calum Paterson were not academy products (strictly speaking).

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been here before
5 hours ago, hmfcbilly said:

I wasn't aware no. 

 

Not as pointless as your winge about it being discussed on another thread mind....maybe just me but I mustve missed the constructive point to your post 😘

 

Obviously missing the point that the constructive part was pointing out there were numerous threads already discussing the point being raised in the new thread.

 

The funniest part being that the new thread I was replying to was subsequently merged with this one (as it was the same- which was the point), you couldnt work that out and went on to make the least constructive rant possible.

 

:rofl:

 

Oh aye and   😘

 

 

Edited by been here before
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17 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Yes we do get funding based on facilities, coaching excellence and youth player achievements (Scotland youth caps, full time contracts, first team debuts).  Hearts is one of eight Elite academies.

 

The SFA describes it as:

Applicant clubs were graded according to a criteria-based system and an assessment of measurable performance outcomes (MPOs).  Enhanced funding for achieving MPOs will encourage best practice, with the objective of Project Brave to harness the success of the strategic plan and ensure a more efficient pathway to first-team football.

I notice there are 9 clubs in the u18 league, do you know which one isn’t ‘elite’?

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9 hours ago, been here before said:

 

Obviously missing the point that the constructive part was pointing out there were numerous threads already discussing the point being raised in the new thread.

 

The funniest part being that the new thread I was replying to was subsequently merged with this one (as it was the same- which was the point), you couldnt work that out and went on to make the least constructive rant possible.

 

:rofl:

 

Oh aye and   😘

 

 

OK I'll accept you had a point about a similar thread what I won't accept is the sanctimonious, patronising tone you used to the OP and subsequently to me. Seems to be all the rage online these days though. Its amazing how arrogant people can be hiding behind a screen. I wonder if you'd be the same to people's faces??

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Nookie Bear
32 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

OK I'll accept you had a point about a similar thread what I won't accept is the sanctimonious, patronising tone you used to the OP and subsequently to me. Seems to be all the rage online these days though. Its amazing how arrogant people can be hiding behind a screen. I wonder if you'd be the same to people's faces??


Ignore him 👍🏻

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Footballfirst
1 hour ago, Hesh said:

I notice there are 9 clubs in the u18 league, do you know which one isn’t ‘elite’?

I don't know who are all playing in the U18 League this season as I haven't been able to attend any games. The eight elite academies are Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee United, Hamilton, Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Rangers, so you can work back from that.

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1 hour ago, Hesh said:

I notice there are 9 clubs in the u18 league, do you know which one isn’t ‘elite’?

Dundee Utd. 

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1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I don't know who are all playing in the U18 League this season as I haven't been able to attend any games. The eight elite academies are Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee United, Hamilton, Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Rangers, so you can work back from that.

Cheers, St Mirren 

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