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Who should we blame?


ollie2004

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2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

FFS, Levein was a director, he must have been reporting into the board - wtf was he reporting ?

WTF was Budge seeing at board meetings? 

In the end, Budge said he was "disorganised".

No shit ! 


Levein manipulated himself into a position of total power - Full Board Director, Director of Football and First Team Coach - as far as Board accountability he thumbed his nose at any other Director at the Club - and Budge lapped it up!

 

 

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glynnlondon

Ann Budge she has overseen all of this and is the one person who could have changed it at any point over the past 5 years.

If she wasn't capable of that she could have stepped aside and put someone in who could.

She was and still is top of the tree at Hearts the buck stops with her.

All other excuses are frankly irrelevant.

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Bazzas right boot

Craig Levein for being unable to turn us round. Many of his players are still here. 

Budge for the transition from CL to Stendel.

Goig back a little longer, above 2 for not doing more to keep Robbie first time round as well. 

 

Doncaster and scottish football for voting to demote us with  8 games to play. 

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SomethingAboutObua

Probably Budge as the key decision maker for the last few years. It's a bit difficult because like the SFA, the board have a lot of influence and are much the same people every year, but avoid a lot of the scrutiny for the teams failings.

 

Roger Arnott seems to be avoiding a lot of attention considering he's meant to be the man leading our fantastic/woeful academy? If you take credit for Hickey and Irving you have to take the blame for the dozens of other players that haven't been good enough to make the grade for us. 

 

Cathro's need for a squad revamp when he wasn't good enough to manage us with any squad has killed every transfer window for us since, but does that go back to being Budge/Levein's fault for hiring him in the first place? 

 

The horrendous football on show is Neilson, the players were able to play differently under Stendel or their previous clubs, so the crap on show lies squarely at the feet of Neilson. 

 

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Whoever sanctioned the pay / lack of win bonus structure, they created a retirement & convalescent home for shagged out   And lazy players, we, the fans must be the biggest mugs this side of that side😂

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I have been defensive about the board's qualifications and "right" to be in post. I look at the ambitions they had (5 year plan) and their ability on paper to achieve this and as people (I don't buy into this fairy dust called 'a football person') they were qualified to deliver on it. they haven't and so must accept the responsiibility.

 

cliche alert - football is a results driven game - the board have largely failed to appoint people who can get acceptable results. So that's a fail, but that's a hard one, but equally the easist to evaluate. It's the othet "fails" that make them culpable.

 

Other things in the 5 year plan that are key in the sustainability of the football club that are indicators of perfromance that seem to be ignored. Mainly player development (youth) and coach development (internal succession planning). The board here need to hold those responsible to account. That only seems to happen when results go worng

 

The club is full of hired mercenaries, and this can only be addressed by changing the  culture and insisting on developing talent internally - and giving these people a chance. That's the responsibility of the board and that's where they are failing.

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gordiegords
13 hours ago, sac said:

Levein. AB bought his lies hook line and sinker. Has showed no contrition whatsoever, & is now blaming Stendel for Neilson’s obvious failings.

utter welt & a legend no more.

Agree, also planted the seeds of doubt about savage yesterday, taking more accountability away from neilson, like he did with himself time and time again. Both him and his understudy are hopeless managers. 

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Ann Budge. The Buck has to stop with her.

 

Her decision, and her decision alone, to put her total faith in those she trusted  - no one else. 
 

She has to assume 100% responsibility for what’s happened even although those she trusted, f..... it royally for her 

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SectionDJambo

It would be good if Daniel Stendel was given the opportunity to respond to Levein's sneaky suggestion that the "shambles" that Neilson came into was all down to Stendel's 4 months in charge, and nothing to do with the previous 5 years of Levein's recruitment and work culture decisions.

I would imagine he wouldn't have had the courage or brass neck to have thrown in that wee comment if Stendel was still living in Edinburgh.

Have Stewart, Preston and Levein still never been on Sportsound at the same time? 3 people who have plenty to say about Hearts, but not at the same time.

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Saw someone post an Italian saying about fish rotten from the head down. 

 

This ultimately falls on Budge. She didn't monitor Levein strictly enough, she didn't have other football heads to lean on to gauge Leveins progress. There wasn't enough accountability or maintenance of standards. His transition from DOF to Manager seemed to go from temporary caretaker until the right guy came along to permanent with Budge trusting he would step aside if he felt he could do no more. 

 

Thing is he didn't. 

 

Ultimate blame is on Budge, when you fail to uphold standards and let sentimentality guide decision making then you're always bound to fail. 

 

Having watched a few of the Wallace Mercer videos, I'd love a Mercer type to emerge to give us some decision to make on Chair going forward after the handover (I don't think Ann should be invited to stay on, but we also need someone credible to back instead). 

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15 hours ago, sac said:

Levein. AB bought his lies hook line and sinker. Has showed no contrition whatsoever, & is now blaming Stendel for Neilson’s obvious failings.

utter welt & a legend no more.

When your closest advisor in all matters football is the problem and there is zero accountability within the set up then this was inevitable.

We brought in a manager who immediately saw what the issue was and attempted to resolve it and promptly emptied him at the first opportunity in favour of a manager who, I have no doubt was recommended by CL.

AB knew Robbie, knew she could work with Robbie and, regardless of how utterly minging we are and a series of v poor results I can’t see her getting rid for someone she doesn’t know.

Short answer. Mostly CL but also AB

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Hectormasson
12 hours ago, Thomaso said:


Levein manipulated himself into a position of total power - Full Board Director, Director of Football and First Team Coach - as far as Board accountability he thumbed his nose at any other Director at the Club - and Budge lapped it up!

 

 

Budge takes 85% of the blame, levein should have been booted out way before he eventually was, then she took ages to get stendel  nearly 7 weeks in which , we barely took a point !     Whilst she went on vacation ....yip I'd say imo budge takes the blame.

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A_A wehatethehibs
2 minutes ago, Hectormasson said:

Budge takes 85% of the blame, levein should have been booted out way before he eventually was, then she took ages to get stendel  nearly 7 weeks in which , we barely took a point !     Whilst she went on vacation ....yip I'd say imo budge takes the blame.


But surely you have to accept that there’s a bit of hindsight there. Think back to when she took over, as a football outsider, she was just there to save the club, try to support it and keep it afloat - she did the right thing she had to appoint someone with qualifications and experience of the game? Who else could she have picked on paper? Levein had so much leadership experience in the game and long association with the club and knew what it took to be successful. He was a very good manager here in his day who is still the last one to give us group stage Europe. Seemed the perfect fit for DoF at the time. 
 

IMO the responsibility lies with the supposed football man and Hearts man. The man who was supposed to be the expert. He is the one who has fallen woefully short and let the club down. First by appointing Cathro and second by appointing himself. Car crash. 
 

Levein was the man running the football club. Everything else Ann done was just to try to generate income. 
 

Yes she was indecisive about sacking him and appointing his replacement, but that sort of decision is what a director of football is for. She has made blunders but it’s not in the same ball park as Leveins blunders IMO, given his experience in the game and supposed knowledge of the club. 

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It all for me stems back to poor decision after poor decision from a footballing sense - to in the board room: from dismantling the team that romped the Championship too quickly. We finish third the next season in the Premiership, but realistically we dropped too many points where we shouldn't have and could've finished 2nd.  

 

Robbie's second year in the Premiership last time round, it was all about consolidating in 3rd place - rather than pushing on.  We started that season poorly in Europe, bad feeling about Hibs knocking us out in the cup still manifested. A section of the support wanted a change at this point. The recruitment was woeful to say the least. Remember, Rangers at this particular time were still weak!

 

MK Dons wanted Robbie, he went (sitting 2nd but Aberdeen had games in hand which people conveniently forget). We bring in Cathro, and he tears what had been built to pieces - it then became Frankensteins monster of a squad.

 

We then gave Cathro the summer to rebuild again, in my opinion he should've been gone before the league cup exit and in the summer. 

 

Again, we take too long to appoint Levein and have Daly standing in. Levein gives us a bounce first few games, goes back to dross, but we finish the season strongly. 

 

The next season Levein has done his business early and we look sharp in the league, however the league cup qualifiers were a bit grim. Lady luck plays us a s**t hand, Levein takes un-well and we start having every important player on the treatment table. We limp through the rest of the campaign and lose the cup final despite a brave performance with a makeshift XI. 

 

At this point Levein should've shuffled back up stairs or left. He doesn't and Ann Budge gives him the vote of confidence. 

 

We start the league season with a poor 0-0 draw with a horrific pitch vs County (having already drawn with Championship Dundee Utd), the start to the season is so important as it sets the tone - the performance certainly sets the tone. It set a bad one, there was already discontent within the stands. 

 

Motherwell giving us a doing happens, and the fans feel the need to protest to empty Levein. Budge is stubborn and sticks by him despite seeing the pattern. It takes 11 games to remove him from his position - even then he isn't fully gone - he is in the corridors lingering like a pungent fart. 

 

It takes 7 weeks to get Daniel Stendel in (again slow appointment from the board) - his style is completely different to that of Levein. Within that period of getting him in-post we lose more ground and points. 

 

From what we hear Stendel challenged Budge a lot more on the structure within the club pertaining to the football structure. Another rebuild in terms of style. Signings come in. When football is suspended Stendel despite notable good results (Rangers x2, Hibs) has left us in a perilous position - and we're demoted when the league is called. 

 

Budge chooses to release him from his contract and appoint Robbie Neilson before telling him. Paying compensation to Dundee United in the process. 

 

There's a pattern above here right? The above demonstrates there's no cohesive plan for the mens first team. The mens first team is being ripped apart on an annual/half-annual basis. We're taking too long to make changes when they're required. 

 

The players brought in since 2014 on the most part haven't been good enough - and supporter money has been wasted on these players (notable exceptions: Gordon, Smith, Berra (pre-injury), and a few loanees like Dunne, Lafferty)

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1 hour ago, bb8 said:

It all for me stems back to poor decision after poor decision from a footballing sense - to in the board room: from dismantling the team that romped the Championship too quickly. We finish third the next season in the Premiership, but realistically we dropped too many points where we shouldn't have and could've finished 2nd.  

 

Robbie's second year in the Premiership last time round, it was all about consolidating in 3rd place - rather than pushing on.  We started that season poorly in Europe, bad feeling about Hibs knocking us out in the cup still manifested. A section of the support wanted a change at this point. The recruitment was woeful to say the least. Remember, Rangers at this particular time were still weak!

 

MK Dons wanted Robbie, he went (sitting 2nd but Aberdeen had games in hand which people conveniently forget). We bring in Cathro, and he tears what had been built to pieces - it then became Frankensteins monster of a squad.

 

We then gave Cathro the summer to rebuild again, in my opinion he should've been gone before the league cup exit and in the summer. 

 

Again, we take too long to appoint Levein and have Daly standing in. Levein gives us a bounce first few games, goes back to dross, but we finish the season strongly. 

 

The next season Levein has done his business early and we look sharp in the league, however the league cup qualifiers were a bit grim. Lady luck plays us a s**t hand, Levein takes un-well and we start having every important player on the treatment table. We limp through the rest of the campaign and lose the cup final despite a brave performance with a makeshift XI. 

 

At this point Levein should've shuffled back up stairs or left. He doesn't and Ann Budge gives him the vote of confidence. 

 

We start the league season with a poor 0-0 draw with a horrific pitch vs County (having already drawn with Championship Dundee Utd), the start to the season is so important as it sets the tone - the performance certainly sets the tone. It set a bad one, there was already discontent within the stands. 

 

Motherwell giving us a doing happens, and the fans feel the need to protest to empty Levein. Budge is stubborn and sticks by him despite seeing the pattern. It takes 11 games to remove him from his position - even then he isn't fully gone - he is in the corridors lingering like a pungent fart. 

 

It takes 7 weeks to get Daniel Stendel in (again slow appointment from the board) - his style is completely different to that of Levein. Within that period of getting him in-post we lose more ground and points. 

 

From what we hear Stendel challenged Budge a lot more on the structure within the club pertaining to the football structure. Another rebuild in terms of style. Signings come in. When football is suspended Stendel despite notable good results (Rangers x2, Hibs) has left us in a perilous position - and we're demoted when the league is called. 

 

Budge chooses to release him from his contract and appoint Robbie Neilson before telling him. Paying compensation to Dundee United in the process. 

 

There's a pattern above here right? The above demonstrates there's no cohesive plan for the mens first team. The mens first team is being ripped apart on an annual/half-annual basis. We're taking too long to make changes when they're required. 

 

The players brought in since 2014 on the most part haven't been good enough - and supporter money has been wasted on these players (notable exceptions: Gordon, Smith, Berra (pre-injury), and a few loanees like Dunne, Lafferty)


Perfectly summed up 👍

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21 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

1) Budge

2) Budge

3) Levein

4) Murray

5) Budge

6) Snoreson

Joint 6) McPhee (bellend)

7) FOH

 

 

 

Christ. I'd forgotten about mcphee 😳😂

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loveofthegame

Budge. The only constant throughout the entire shambles of the last 4 years or so. Ultimately the buck stops at the top. She needs to walk.

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The Real Maroonblood
11 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

Budge. The only constant throughout the entire shambles of the last 4 years or so. Ultimately the buck stops at the top. She needs to walk.

This.

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It’s the distractions that have kept Budge in post. Stendel’s brief spell, demotion and a sense of injustice. Sooner or later, and it took me a long time, folk will reach their tipping point and realise the 5 year plan, the academy producing a conveyor belt of talent, the boot room and all the other empty words we’ve been fed are a load of ****ing shite. 

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Based on the season so far, I'd predict we'll rally and win a few games, meaning we win the league comfortably.  After the usual rage at losing games subsides everyone will have a chance to reflect on this season, and on how we got here.  I wonder what percentage of fans would have accepted what we've done this season at its outset -  beat hibs but lose 2020 cup final on pens, get pumped out of the two 2021 competitions to shan teams, win the league comfortably.  I understand folk moaning about performances, signings, etc., but to be perfectly honest I'd have taken that at the start of the season.  

 

The last 3 or 4 years watching hearts, plus the global situation this year (absolutely no excuse for losing any game, but definitely a factor in scouting/signing players among other things), did not at all make me confident we'd get promoted at the first time of asking.  Giving Robbie + Budge any special credit for looking good for promotion at this stage is down to each individual fan, but at the very least it is job done.  Job done is something we have not been able to say since Robbie left at the end of 2016.

 

Who's to blame?  It's the wrong question.  There have been countless mistakes made under Budge, this is the nature of football and business in general.  We did well to get back to the premiership after admin, established ourselves, then through a series of blunders became easy prey for every team in the league.  We could analyse this forever, I'd rather not.

 

The question I'd ask is, Are we improving?  It's tough at the moment, but we have clearly improved this season.  Taking a team burdened with expensive duds on long contracts, a team that'd won so few games in years, and making a team that can win the championship shows improvement at the club.  What we were all crying out for after the Romanov years was stability and building the club up to a level of competing at the right end of the prem.  Ripping it up and starting again, again, might prove more damaging than building on the steps in the right direction that we've made.

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Nookie Bear
21 hours ago, ollie2004 said:

What is the problem?

We have so much funds from FOH and other sources yet are struggling to compete in the Championship. THE FOH FUNDS ARE MORE THAN MOST PREMIER CLUBS!

So where is the problem, the CEO, The Board, The Coach/es, The Players or ALL? As a long suffering Jambo I fear for the future and demand change!

MODS merge where iffeel appropriate.

 

Not sure how to tell you this ollie...but it's you.

 

Just do the right thing and pack your bags 👋

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
37 minutes ago, Mister T said:

Christ. I'd forgotten about mcphee 😳😂


Austin “This job isn’t what he’s best at” McPhee?

 

Surprised you’ve forgotten him given all the clubs who’ve been fighting to employ him

 

:jjyay:

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20 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

1) Budge

2) All the fans with their nose so far up Budge's arse

 

Aye she is taking pelters now but I remember when we had clowns sending her flowers and chocolates ! Really I made a post at the time slating them but next thing you know she is in the EEN smiling with her gift from some nutters.

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2 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Aye she is taking pelters now but I remember when we had clowns sending her flowers and chocolates ! Really I made a post at the time slating them but next thing you know she is in the EEN smiling with her gift from some nutters.

I wouldn’t call them nutters, I wasn’t involved in that by the way. I think most, if not all of us were taken in by her vision for the club. Unfortunately it was all Levein fuelled nonsense. 

Edited by GinRummy
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23 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

All roads lead to Levein.

 

Budge done her best, but knew nothing about running a football club.

 

Levein was the man who we should all have been able to trust.
 

An experienced professional in the game with a long association with the club. Previous success as manager in Scotland. Ticks all the boxes to run as a DoF role.

 

Who else could Ann have chosen, she needed someone with experience of the game. On paper think back to the start of everything. Who could she have chosen that could possibly have been better than Levein on paper? To rebuild the football department? She done everything she could to support that rebuild from the financial side.

 

So for me, Levein is the one who carry’s the can, he’s the one with he knowledge of the game. He is the ultimate biggest disaster in the history of the club, he should have known what was required for running this football club. He made the worst managerial appointment and has squandered 5 years worth of the fans money. 
 

Would not have been welcome at Tynecastle had the fans been there, that’s for sure. He is responsible for all of this I would say, 95% his fault. Then 5% other factors. 

Come on, how long should it take? I regularly go into new types of business. I worked for brewers, tech cos, FMCG, Oil services and in the past I did a qualification which involved going into all sorts of businesses...it cannot take 5-6 years for a CEO to learn about a business. It just can't...5-6 months is more realistic and very generous.

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2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Not sure how to tell you this ollie...but it's you.

 

Just do the right thing and pack your bags 👋

What are you on? I have supported this club for 60 years!

Why shoukd I stop now?

I have wutnessed a few highs but more lows what gives you the right ti tell me to pacj my bags?

I want an answer abd an apology!

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Ann for not sacking people nearly quick enough.

Craig and Robbie for being arrogant, blinkered erses.

FOH for being sycophantic bumlicking crawlers.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Aye she is taking pelters now but I remember when we had clowns sending her flowers and chocolates ! Really I made a post at the time slating them but next thing you know she is in the EEN smiling with her gift from some nutters.

 

 

Out of a cringe factor of 1 trillion, the flowers and chocolates were 1 trillion. I actually even felt uncomfortable hearing about it. These plums have no idea the damage they have done.

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Ann Budge has surrounded herself with people at the club who are good for her and not good for the club. 

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10 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Ann Budge has surrounded herself with people at the club who are good for her and not good for the club. 


I hate to piss on your parade i8hibsh but throughout Ann’s tenure your crusade has been nothing but reactive nonsense.

 

Not once have you said at the time “ I think this is a bad idea” with regard to managerial appointments. Just anti Budge posts.
 

Not once did you say “ I’m against this” just more anti Budge posts.

 

You didn’t warn anyone. You didn’t have some mystical foresight into the future of our club. You just took a dislike to a woman running our club.
 

Bask in your “hindsight” tainted glory whilst people with short memories tickle you behind the ears.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Vlad Magic said:


I hate to piss on your parade i8hibsh but throughout Ann’s tenure your crusade has been nothing but reactive nonsense.

 

Not once have you said at the time “ I think this is a bad idea” with regard to managerial appointments. Just anti Budge posts.
 

Not once did you say “ I’m against this” just more anti Budge posts.

 

You didn’t warn anyone. You didn’t have some mystical foresight into the future of our club. You just took a dislike to a woman running our club.
 

Bask in your “hindsight” tainted glory whilst people with short memories tickle you behind the ears.

 

 

 

 

I think maybe you should read my posts before posting. 

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6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I think maybe you should read my posts before posting. 


Did you post concerns about Levein. No you didn’t.

 

Did you post concerns about Cathro?

No you didn’t.

 

Did you post any concerns about Stendel?

 

Did you post concerns about any Hearts manager ever?

 

No you didn’t.

 

You just posted about Ann Budge.

 

All of it derogatory.

 

She has completely undermined you as a willing positive to the club whilst you have sat on the sidelines pissing inwards.

 

And I bet that’s what pisses you off the most.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Vlad Magic said:


Did you post concerns about Levein. No you didn’t.

 

Did you post concerns about Cathro?

No you didn’t.

 

Did you post any concerns about Stendel?

 

Did you post concerns about any Hearts manager ever?

 

No you didn’t.

 

You just posted about Ann Budge.

 

All of it derogatory.

 

She has completely undermined you as a willing positive to the club whilst you have sat on the sidelines pissing inwards.

 

And I bet that’s what pisses you off the most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok here is a tip. Read my posts before accusing.

 

As an example, dig the very first Cathro thread up when he first became manager. Then come back to me.

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Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Ok here is a tip. Read my posts before accusing.

 

As an example, dig the very first Cathro thread up when he first became manager. Then come back to me.


You have been on ignore for years. Quite why I have interacted tonight I have no idea.

 

One thing I will say and this is 100% cast iron fact and not hindsight.

 

I have no wish to ever come across some like you. I know people who have and to a man they describe you as a “****ing *******”.

 

Anns got you over a barrel sunshine.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Out of a cringe factor of 1 trillion, the flowers and chocolates were 1 trillion. I actually even felt uncomfortable hearing about it. These plums have no idea the damage they have done.


Don’t remember you mentioning it at the time?

 

Funny as **** that eh 🤭

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7 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:


Don’t remember you mentioning it at the time?

 

Funny as **** that eh 🤭

 

 

Again you are wrong.

 

Why do you keep responding to me with your lies and false accusations. Please put me back on ignore. I do not wish to continue this conversation with you. Thanks.

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7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Again you are wrong.

 

Why do you keep responding to me with your lies and false accusations. Please put me back on ignore. I do not wish to continue this conversation with you. Thanks.


Just like the woman abusing, hide behind a keyboard, pathetic, worm of a man I expected.

 

 

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sauchiejambo
23 hours ago, Fraggle said:

Hold on a minute here! 

 

Are you saying we shouldn't blame it on the sunshine, or the moonlight, or the goodtimes!!!

 

Tae **** with that, all of them to blame just as much as the Boogie!! 

Ave had enough, its getting to the point where I just can't control my Feet!

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Toxteth O'Grady
23 hours ago, glynnlondon said:

Ann Budge she has overseen all of this and is the one person who could have changed it at any point over the past 5 years.

If she wasn't capable of that she could have stepped aside and put someone in who could.

She was and still is top of the tree at Hearts the buck stops with her.

All other excuses are frankly irrelevant.

Nailed it

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46 minutes ago, sauchiejambo said:

Ave had enough, its getting to the point where I just can't control my Feet!

 

That's first team material right there...

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shaun.lawson

Let me get this straight.

 

- Ann employed her mate Craig to run the football side of things. 

 

- Craig brought in his mate Robbie, who became Ann's mate too.

 

- Ann employed her brother to build the new stand. This went massively over-budget and the club even forgot to order the seats.

 

- Ann employed her mate Andrew as the world's most AWOL Chief Executive. By the happiest of coincidences, Andrew was already married to Ann's mate Lesley.

 

- Ann's partner is a director too. Ann even employs her nephew. 

 

- Craig and Robbie, who are both mates with Ann, were and have been given inordinate amounts of extra time they did not deserve. 

 

- Daniel, who was mates with neither Craig nor Ann and prepared to tell the truth about Craig in particular, was unceremoniously dumped despite having worked for free for months.

 

Kickbackers' conclusion: it's either all or mostly Craig's fault. :rofl: 

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No Idle Talk

We are not struggling to compete in the Championship. We are top of the league and on the brink of winning it. That by definition is not struggling to compete. Alloa are struggling to compete.

 

As for who's to blame for our present travails........I think some of the blame can be apportioned to all three levels of the club - the board room, the dug out, and the players on the park.

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