Recruitment/Improvement

[Spellczech]

13 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

A lot of supposition there to make a case for DS.

Frankly I never thought he got a real chance but he did sign 2 donkeys and must have known when he took the job that the odds were against him.  If reports are true I did not like the way his departure was dealt with either.

Really? I didn't think there was much at all. Taking known facts as dots and joining them to form the most obvious narrative...

[soonbe110]

7 hours ago, GinRummy said:

He has lost the dressing room. There will be no improvement till he’s gone. 

Or until over half the dressing is gone which will happen in about six weeks time. 

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

His first KPI was far too easy.

 

A blind person can see this on field style of play won't work for years 2 and 3 of the next phase of the 3 year plan.

Don’t think he plans things to be the same in year 2, either playing style or playing staff. This season was all about using what he had most effectively to ensure promotion. Nothing else really mattered.  Club was in real danger of going out of business if we missed out on promotion. 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Or until over half the dressing is gone which will happen in about six weeks time. 

I get he’ll lose a lot of the squad soon but I’m just sick of it. Why is it always Hearts. How do other clubs with players nearing the end of contracts manage not to completely collapse. We’re a circus, an absolute laughing stock. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by GinRummy

[soonbe110]

Just now, GinRummy said:

I get he’ll lose a lot of the squad soon but I’m just sick of it. Why is it always Hearts. How do other clubs with players nearing the end of contracts manage not to completely collapse. We’re a circus, an absolute laugh8ng stock. 

Like Motherwell and Kilmarnock you mean? That’s exactly their problem. Best players running down contracts and at the bottom of the league. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Like Motherwell and Kilmarnock you mean? That’s exactly their problem. Best players running down contracts and at the bottom of the league. 

If you say that’s true I believe you. I’ve barely paid any attention to the top league. 

[NANOJAMBO]

9 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Or until over half the dressing is gone which will happen in about six weeks time. 

You sure ? From what I can see , most contracts expire in 2022 so we're stuck with the bulk of the squad until then ? 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

5 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

This is the key. Savage can go out and get players required for the team to succeed - he can be given the remit of finding, for example, a box to box midfielder - and he’ll have a list of targets. He can go out and buy a target. But from there it’s up to the management and coaching staff to use those players correctly. McEneff a prime example now being played on the right of midfield to accommodate Neilson’s picks in the centre. Literally makes zero sense.

 

And Levein and Neilson both coached the talent out of players. Look back at the 18-19 season when we were winning, the team played well with freedom sticking to their strengths. Then training and coaching happened (and injuries to be fair) and they were never ever the same. The OP has correctly pointed out that Neilson doesn’t improve a player, I would say the same for Levein. In fact the only manager that did improve some players - and I know there’s many that won’t want to read this - was Stendel. Especially younger players like Henderson, Moore, Clare, Brandon - all seemed much improved under Stendel.

 

Good post. Clare's transformation under Stendel is a perfect example of why it's a waste of time going after the players. Good coaching, a positive philosophy, and good people management would make this squad look unrecognisable

 

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You sure ? From what I can see , most contracts expire in 2022 so we're stuck with the bulk of the squad until then ? 

Don’t think so. Players won’t stick around when told they won’t be playing. May have to pay-off the balance between what their next club pays them and we are currently paying them. Neilson and co would need to be blind to not see that Halkett, Haring, Naismith, Damour, Popescu, will not cut it next season. They haven’t made a contribution this season. Add them to the ones out of contract, Doyle, Zlamal, White, Irving, Lee, Frear, Wighton, Berra. That’s likely 13 of this seasons dressing room going. None  of them can say they haven’t had a chance to impress this season but virtually all have failed. 
Neilson was pretty ruthless last time when we came up and he changed the squad significantly so unlikely he will hold back this time round. 14 players made their debuts for  Hearts season after we last won championship. 

[Magic Numbers]

This thread is highlighting lots of things which I have already thought about, but haven't really been spoken about - I agree Daniel Stendel was like a breath of fresh air after the Neilson then Levein time, and showed exactly what coaching can do for players.  Yes his tactics were not working all the time, but these players he was working with had what, 3-4 years some of them, playing god-awful defensive, ponderous football.  To change the whole culture of the club and playing style etc would take far more than the few months he had.  Yes Wagner and Avdijaj were honking, but neither played very much and both came with reasonable pedigrees, like Damour for example, and who knows, all 3 of them may have come onto a game at some point.  The Pereira problem was an odd one, but who can 100% say that he wasn't forced to play him every week if Man U had stated that requirement to us when signing him.  He gave in at the end and played Bobby, so it wasn't like he couldn't see Pereira's failings.  

 

DS had the potential to mould this squad into a VERY good side, and a very attractive one at that.  

 

Robbie was always going to have a problem this season, as going from Neilson/Levein, to the entertaining Stendel, then dragging us back to Neilson-ball was like a proper kick in the stomach.  I felt it when he was re-appointed, and I am sure I am not the only one and that includes the players.

 

It was telling when DS had to wait an absolute age to get his coaching team in place, but with Robbie it was all done almost immediately.

 

Sadly I can not see AB moving RN out at this stage, but I cannot for the life of me think why.  There are literally no redeeming features of this current set up.

 

I'd have DS back in a heartbeat, despite his lack of results at the end.

 

 

[JackLadd]

One change I would make is shorter contracts 18 months tops. How many players in the past 8 years from the hundreds signed by Levein in particular have actually gone on to better things? Inflexibility in the squad is part of why the club has not progressed and loses to village sides. 

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

One change I would make is shorter contracts 18 months tops. How many players in the past 8 years from the hundreds signed by Levein in particular have actually gone on to better things? Inflexibility in the squad is part of why the club has not progressed and loses to village sides. 

Good idea in theory but if by chance we picked up someone say of the quality of Rudi

a) would he be willing to sign for only 18 months security

b) if he did agree a 18 month contract and was a howling success, he may chose to run down his contract and leave for nowt.  What would we say then?

[jambonian]

47 minutes ago, Magic Numbers said:

This thread is highlighting lots of things which I have already thought about, but haven't really been spoken about - I agree Daniel Stendel was like a breath of fresh air after the Neilson then Levein time, and showed exactly what coaching can do for players.  Yes his tactics were not working all the time, but these players he was working with had what, 3-4 years some of them, playing god-awful defensive, ponderous football.  To change the whole culture of the club and playing style etc would take far more than the few months he had.  Yes Wagner and Avdijaj were honking, but neither played very much and both came with reasonable pedigrees, like Damour for example, and who knows, all 3 of them may have come onto a game at some point.  The Pereira problem was an odd one, but who can 100% say that he wasn't forced to play him every week if Man U had stated that requirement to us when signing him.  He gave in at the end and played Bobby, so it wasn't like he couldn't see Pereira's failings.  

 

DS had the potential to mould this squad into a VERY good side, and a very attractive one at that.  

 

Robbie was always going to have a problem this season, as going from Neilson/Levein, to the entertaining Stendel, then dragging us back to Neilson-ball was like a proper kick in the stomach.  I felt it when he was re-appointed, and I am sure I am not the only one and that includes the players.

 

It was telling when DS had to wait an absolute age to get his coaching team in place, but with Robbie it was all done almost immediately.

 

Sadly I can not see AB moving RN out at this stage, but I cannot for the life of me think why.  There are literally no redeeming features of this current set up.

 

I'd have DS back in a heartbeat, despite his lack of results at the end.

 

 

I remember when Stendel arrived i said it was going to take 18 months for him to turn round the culture of the football club. He was a stranger in a new country with none of his coaches there to help him out and Levein watching over him as he was too arrogant to walk out the door and let Stendel get on with it. It's quite telling when he said that he picked Andy Kirk to help him because he was the only one he felt he could trust. He also said that he was shocked at the condition of these players for a professional club. That must've irked Levein and Budge big-time. It also suggests that a few were in their comfort zone and he got rid of Whelan, Mulraney and Berra as quick as look at them. Ann wanted someone to manage and improve youth players, he was doing that. She also wanted someone to improve some of the players already at the club, he did that with Bozanic, Clare and one or two others. There were other players that were for the chop come summer but he wasn't given the chance. Langer & Avdijaj were poor signings but Boyce & Sibbick weren't. There was a buzz about Tynie at games, fans were all backing the players, even some that didn't deserve it but we did. Folk say he had us at the bottom, yes but we still had 24 points to play for and only four behind, conveniently forgetting that Levein and his team had us with four wins in a year anyway. We'll never know if he could've turned it around because we were already on a downwards slope that was well on in it's journey. It was a fairly typical situation that we've seen before when we try to be adventurous. Burley got sacked while we were top of the League, Sergio knew what we were about and did pretty well considering he couldn't sign anyone and i believe that Stendel would've got us back playing exciting, attractive football once again had he been given the chance. Now we're back with Levein-esque dullness and boredom. Ann likes familiarity, Stendel didn't offer her that. My heart sank when i heard Neilson had returned.

Would i take Stendel back? Yes, maybe but not until Budge and all her wee pals are out the door and we become a proper football club again. Only then would we be able to tell if Stendel was/is the right choice or not. I refuse to see him as a failure under the circumstance he found himself in as it's a very unfair judgement. Not after only four months.

Edited March 28, 2021 by jambonian

[Maroon Sailor]

10 minutes ago, jambonian said:

I remember when Stendel arrived i said it was going to take 18 months for him to turn round the culture of the football club. He was a stranger in a new country with none of his coaches there to help him out and Levein watching over him as he was too arrogant to walk out the door and let Stendel get on with it. It's quite telling when he said that he picked Andy Kirk to help him because he was the only one he felt he could trust. He also said that he was shocked at the condition of these players for a professional club. That must've irked Levein and Budge big-time. It also suggests that a few were in their comfort zone and he got rid of Whelan, Mulraney and Berra as quick as look at them. Ann wanted someone to manage and improve youth players, he was doing that. She also wanted someone to improve some of the players already at the club, he did that with Bozanic, Clare and one or two others. There were other players that were for the chop come summer but he wasn't given the chance. Langer & Avdijaj were poor signings but Boyce & Sibbick weren't. There was a buzz about Tynie at games, fans were all backing the players, even some that didn't deserve it but we did. Folk say he had us at the bottom, yes but we still had 24 points to play for and only four behind, conveniently forgetting that Levein and his team had us with four wins in a year anyway. We'll never know if he could've turned it around because we were already on a downwards slope that was well on in it's journey. It was a fairly typical situation that we've seen before when we try to be adventurous. Burley got sacked while we were top of the League, Sergio knew what we were about and did pretty well considering he couldn't sign anyone and i believe that Stendel would've got us back playing exciting, attractive football once again had he been given the chance. Now we're back with Levein-esque dullness and boredom. Ann likes familiarity, Stendel didn't offer her that. My heart sank when i heard Neilson had returned.

Would i take Stendel back? Yes, maybe but not until Budge and all her wee pals are out the door and we become a proper football club again. Only then would we be able to tell if Stendel was/is the right choice or not. I refuse to see him as a failure under the circumstance he found himself in as it's a very unfair judgement. Not after only four months.

 

Good post

 

Makes me wonder if Neilson was Ann's choice all along but a non starter as he was tied up at United.

[samgolden]

6 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

It's more the type of players we should be looking at. Someone who has that air of authority on the park is required, someone who has that fire in their belly, someone who can turn matches around, someone who can take a game by the scruff of the neck.

 

Too many lily livered precious wee souls in football now who are not up for it week in, week out.

 

6 hours ago, Hesh said:

So what are the names of players we should be looking at? Easy enough to say players aren’t good enough I’m of the opinion for a lot of the guys above it’s just a job, the club is very much secondary.

 

 

Start at the Back first Guthrie from Livingston? always thought he played with a bit of grit when I have watched him 28 Years old 

[jambonian]

19 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Good post

 

Makes me wonder if Neilson was Ann's choice all along but a non starter as he was tied up at United.

 

She was probably gutted when he walked out and joined some no-mark team on the outskirts of London and likely hoped he would come back one day. I think he was her daughters favourite player, or so i'd heard. Problem was Stendel was telling it like it was and she couldn't cope with that. Wouldn't surprise me if Levein had been causing a wee bit of dis-harmony within the squad because he didn't like Stendel. Levein can't and won't take criticism so maybe a wee bit of gamesmanship went on, not that he should've been anywhere near Hearts or Tynecastle anyway. Leech of a man. Either way, Stendel felt uncomfortable around Levein and his cohorts. I think they became a distraction to him. I mean, who would feel comfortable when the previous boss refuses to leave and is watching your every move!? He was on a hiding to nothing. Levein could quite easily have been bad-mouthing Stendel to Budge for all we know and influencing her decision whether to keep Stendel on or not. No-one knows but i wouldn't trust that joker if he told me tomorrow's Monday without checking for myself first.

Edited March 28, 2021 by jambonian

[Auld Reekin']

A very good thread with some very interesting and perceptive points being made.   

[NlGHTMARE]

5 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Stendel might have been a case of the right man at the wrong time.

 

I look at Barnsley now and he lay the foundations for the type of season they are having after years of struggling.

 

I think if he was given the chance we would have seen a pretty good Hearts team to watch in a couple of years

 

 

 

The foundations were laid by the recruitment committee at Barnsley, he just got the players he’d been given playing and winning. He had very little input into the laying foundations. 

[Rods]

Sadly Robbie losing the dressing room is the least of the worries. A lot of these charlatans failed under Levein, Stendel and now Robbie. 
 

A lot of these imposters need to go. 

[JamboBoy]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Don’t think he plans things to be the same in year 2, either playing style or playing staff. This season was all about using what he had most effectively to ensure promotion. Nothing else really mattered.  Club was in real danger of going out of business if we missed out on promotion. 

That is wishful thinking sorry. As Head Coach he has to be measured on the quality of signings to improve the team and improved performance by those already at the club. He has failed lamentably on both counts and cannot be allowed more finance to make the same errors. That would be negligent conduct by AB and the Board to allow this to happen. Enough is enough sorry!

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Good post

 

Makes me wonder if Neilson was Ann's choice all along but a non starter as he was tied up at United.

Pretty sure he was. Levein said he had a very long chat with him back in November but Robbie was committed to winning the league with United. 

[Maroon Sailor]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Pretty sure he was. Levein said he had a very long chat with him back in November but Robbie was committed to winning the league with United. 

 

That would make sense of how things developed in the Summer and Levein saying it didn't come as a surprise to him that Neilson left a club he just got promoted.

[soonbe110]

59 minutes ago, JamboBoy said:

That is wishful thinking sorry. As Head Coach he has to be measured on the quality of signings to improve the team and improved performance by those already at the club. He has failed lamentably on both counts and cannot be allowed more finance to make the same errors. That would be negligent conduct by AB and the Board to allow this to happen. Enough is enough sorry!

Not really. That was and is the plan. Win the league with the players he inherited from last season with a few changes and then rebuild for the Premiership. Made a lot of sense the state of the pandemic, our court battles and the state of the economy that we didn’t rebuild last summer. The opportunity to rebuild this summer was a major attraction for Savage. Presley confirmed this on Sportsound  the other day. 
Who would you say was responsible for the January signings, the head coach or the sporting director? All too easy to blame Neilson for the signings but not sure that’s his, or solely his, responsibility. 

[JamboBoy]

14 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Not really. That was and is the plan. Win the league with the players he inherited from last season with a few changes and then rebuild for the Premiership. Made a lot of sense the state of the pandemic, our court battles and the state of the economy that we didn’t rebuild last summer. The opportunity to rebuild this summer was a major attraction for Savage. Presley confirmed this on Sportsound  the other day. 
Who would you say was responsible for the January signings, the head coach or the sporting director? All too easy to blame Neilson for the signings but not sure that’s his, or solely his, responsibility. 

I am sorry but you have once again missed the point. Firstly is our strategy only for one year? If it is it is not a strategy it is a tactic and is a very expensive way of running any business. I have seen it mentioned many times that the signings were being made with a view to us being in the Premier League. Clearly that has failed too as apart from Craig Gordon not a single one of them is good enough to have us operating at the top end of the league above us. That surely cannot be disputed.

Secondly Neilson as Head Coach must have his performance measured more than just getting promotion. That is the whole point of what I am trying to say and you seem to be missing that in your thinking. Given the budget he has been given anyone with a bit of football nous could get this team promotion out of this league. Also anyone could achieve what he has with his record relating to incoming players and improving those he already had. It is clear from my type of analysis that anyone could achieve what he has in both areas. 

[Hearts1975]

17 hours ago, Magic Numbers said:

This thread is highlighting lots of things which I have already thought about, but haven't really been spoken about - I agree Daniel Stendel was like a breath of fresh air after the Neilson then Levein time, and showed exactly what coaching can do for players.  Yes his tactics were not working all the time, but these players he was working with had what, 3-4 years some of them, playing god-awful defensive, ponderous football.  To change the whole culture of the club and playing style etc would take far more than the few months he had.  Yes Wagner and Avdijaj were honking, but neither played very much and both came with reasonable pedigrees, like Damour for example, and who knows, all 3 of them may have come onto a game at some point.  The Pereira problem was an odd one, but who can 100% say that he wasn't forced to play him every week if Man U had stated that requirement to us when signing him.  He gave in at the end and played Bobby, so it wasn't like he couldn't see Pereira's failings.  

 

DS had the potential to mould this squad into a VERY good side, and a very attractive one at that.  

 

Robbie was always going to have a problem this season, as going from Neilson/Levein, to the entertaining Stendel, then dragging us back to Neilson-ball was like a proper kick in the stomach.  I felt it when he was re-appointed, and I am sure I am not the only one and that includes the players.

 

It was telling when DS had to wait an absolute age to get his coaching team in place, but with Robbie it was all done almost immediately.

 

Sadly I can not see AB moving RN out at this stage, but I cannot for the life of me think why.  There are literally no redeeming features of this current set up.

 

I'd have DS back in a heartbeat, despite his lack of results at the end.

 

 

Absolutely Bang on the money 💰 

[Maroon Sailor]

8 minutes ago, JamboBoy said:

I am sorry but you have once again missed the point. Firstly is our strategy only for one year? If it is it is not a strategy it is a tactic and is a very expensive way of running any business. I have seen it mentioned many times that the signings were being made with a view to us being in the Premier League. Clearly that has failed too as apart from Craig Gordon not a single one of them is good enough to have us operating at the top end of the league above us. That surely cannot be disputed.

Secondly Neilson as Head Coach must have his performance measured more than just getting promotion. That is the whole point of what I am trying to say and you seem to be missing that in your thinking. Given the budget he has been given anyone with a bit of football nous could get this team promotion out of this league. Also anyone could achieve what he has with his record relating to incoming players and improving those he already had. It is clear from my type of analysis that anyone could achieve what he has in both areas. 

 

The trouble with measuring his performance is if an independent assessor came in, looked at the table , looked at the goal difference, looked at the points tally, looked at the win ratio then he would assess Robbie has achieved pretty much everything from this season.

 

If Robbie got sacked after Saturday with where the club are in the table then anybody outwith a Hearts persuasion and only look at the league table would be thinking WTF !

 

 

[JamboBoy]

20 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The trouble with measuring his performance is if an independent assessor came in, looked at the table , looked at the goal difference, looked at the points tally, looked at the win ratio then he would assess Robbie has achieved pretty much everything from this season.

 

If Robbie got sacked after Saturday with where the club are in the table then anybody outwith a Hearts persuasion and only look at the league table would be thinking WTF !

 

 

Any independent assessor worth their salt would not look to measure anyone’s performance on only one metric. My point is the Board should not be measuring it on one either. That only gives a very narrow measure of his performance. We cannot continually operate in this way as the cost of doing so is unsustainable.

 

I am not suggesting for one moment that Robbie is sacked because of last Tuesday or Saturday. Quite the opposite actually if you see what I suggested in my original post. This short term approach is exactly why we are where we are right now. That must be the real concern for us all.
 

I am certainly not going to continue pumping my hard earned cash into a club that continues to operate the way it does. Millions of pounds effectively being wasted yet again this summer if we are not very careful. I believe a lot of people outside of the Board feel the same way!

Edited March 29, 2021 by JamboBoy

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

Wighton was better this season than he was last year. Naturally, he has been farmed out to score goals for our main rivals in the division.

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, JamboBoy said:

Any independent assessor worth their salt would not look to measure anyone’s performance on only one metric. My point is the Board should not be measuring it on one either. That only gives a very narrow measure of his performance. We cannot continually operate in this way as the cost of doing so is unsustainable.

 

I am not suggesting for one moment that Robbie is sacked because of last Tuesday or Saturday. Quite the opposite actually if you see what I suggested in my original post. This short term approach is exactly why we are where are right now. That must be the real concern for us all. I am certainly not going to continue pumping my hard earned cash into a club that continues to operate the way it does. Millions of pounds effectively being wasted yet again if we are not careful. I believe a lot of people outside of the Board feel the same way!

 

Robbie won't be sacked anyway.

 

He'll have the job of getting rid of the deadwood and getting the players he wants this Summer.

 

Huge job on his hands.

 

Getting decent players in is one thing, getting decent players performing well on a consistent basis is another thing.

[Japan Jambo]

18 hours ago, jambonian said:

I remember when Stendel arrived i said it was going to take 18 months for him to turn round the culture of the football club. He was a stranger in a new country with none of his coaches there to help him out and Levein watching over him as he was too arrogant to walk out the door and let Stendel get on with it. It's quite telling when he said that he picked Andy Kirk to help him because he was the only one he felt he could trust. He also said that he was shocked at the condition of these players for a professional club. That must've irked Levein and Budge big-time. It also suggests that a few were in their comfort zone and he got rid of Whelan, Mulraney and Berra as quick as look at them. Ann wanted someone to manage and improve youth players, he was doing that. She also wanted someone to improve some of the players already at the club, he did that with Bozanic, Clare and one or two others. There were other players that were for the chop come summer but he wasn't given the chance. Langer & Avdijaj were poor signings but Boyce & Sibbick weren't. There was a buzz about Tynie at games, fans were all backing the players, even some that didn't deserve it but we did. Folk say he had us at the bottom, yes but we still had 24 points to play for and only four behind, conveniently forgetting that Levein and his team had us with four wins in a year anyway. We'll never know if he could've turned it around because we were already on a downwards slope that was well on in it's journey. It was a fairly typical situation that we've seen before when we try to be adventurous. Burley got sacked while we were top of the League, Sergio knew what we were about and did pretty well considering he couldn't sign anyone and i believe that Stendel would've got us back playing exciting, attractive football once again had he been given the chance. Now we're back with Levein-esque dullness and boredom. Ann likes familiarity, Stendel didn't offer her that. My heart sank when i heard Neilson had returned.

Would i take Stendel back? Yes, maybe but not until Budge and all her wee pals are out the door and we become a proper football club again. Only then would we be able to tell if Stendel was/is the right choice or not. I refuse to see him as a failure under the circumstance he found himself in as it's a very unfair judgement. Not after only four months.

 

Agree with most of that up to the point of him coming back - much as I like the guy, returning feels like it'll include a lot of extra baggage to deal with.

[JamboBoy]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Robbie won't be sacked anyway.

 

He'll have the job of getting rid of the deadwood and getting the players he wants this Summer.

 

Huge job on his hands.

 

Getting decent players in is one thing, getting decent players performing well on a consistent basis is another thing.

 

51 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Agree with most of that up to the point of him coming back - much as I like the guy, returning feels like it'll include a lot of extra baggage to deal with.

 

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Robbie won't be sacked anyway.

 

He'll have the job of getting rid of the deadwood and getting the players he wants this Summer.

 

Huge job on his hands.

 

Getting decent players in is one thing, getting decent players performing well on a consistent basis is another thing.

So what you are saying which is the same as the Board is that no matter what his overall performance as a Coach has been he can stay in place. Do you really truly think that is sensible. The point is there is a huge job to be done and he is clearly not the man to do it as his performance to date has clearly shown. He not only has proven he has no idea what to do by way of recruitment he has no idea how to coach players to get better performance out of them. To blindly go forward and think this will somehow magically change is crazy thinking and why we are in the place we are right now. Do we never learn our lessons from the past? Clearly we probably don’t and another disaster looms!

[jambonian]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Robbie won't be sacked anyway.

 

He'll have the job of getting rid of the deadwood and getting the players he wants this Summer.

 

Huge job on his hands.

 

Getting decent players in is one thing, getting decent players performing well on a consistent basis is another thing.

 

That's the problem. It's not that he won't be signing anyone, it's more of being able to coach them properly and get them playing to a certain standard. For me, it won't matter who he brings in. If he's shopping in Pound-land on the say-so of Savage then the level will be similar to what we have already. More Frear's and Kastaneer's, and he will be if people refuse to re-new season tickets, or sign even worse because the budget has got even smaller. This is why i believe he should be replaced. Can we take that risk of signing nobodies again on a potentially even less budget? For me it's a no.

 

29 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Agree with most of that up to the point of him coming back - much as I like the guy, returning feels like it'll include a lot of extra baggage to deal with.

 

I wasn't saying he should definitely be brought back, the point was more of if he was to return, we would only then be able to judge him properly away from the Budge era, unlike when he first arrived where he had all of Levein's four year mess to sort out as well as having that odious individual breathing down his neck unfairly. He was on a hiding to nothing, pressure was on and he was judged unfairly because of the situation he was in. Whether he would be a good manager or a poor manager, no-one knows. Not really. 

[Maroon Sailor]

17 minutes ago, JamboBoy said:

 

 

So what you are saying which is the same as the Board is that no matter what his overall performance as a Coach has been he can stay in place. Do you really truly think that is sensible. The point is there is a huge job to be done and he is clearly not the man to do it as his performance to date has clearly shown. He not only has proven he has no idea what to do by way of recruitment he has no idea how to coach players to get better performance out of them. To blindly go forward and think this will somehow magically change is crazy thinking and why we are in the place we are right now. Do we never learn our lessons from the past? Clearly we probably don’t and another disaster looms!

 

He does have an idea by way of recruitment - it's just the players he has brought in have under performed.

 

He went for pace with the likes of Kastaneer - no good without real footballing ability

 

GMS has massively under performed.

 

Haring has not been the same player since his injury

 

Bringing Berra back hasn't worked out - he's as nimble as a container ship trying to get around the Isle of Wight

 

I think Robbie himself under estimated just how poor the squad is.

 

I can't understand how he is getting away with Hearts playing in the style they are as one of the reasons Stendel was brought in was his desire to play attacking football.

 

Stendel would have worked through the problems imo - he wasn't scared to upset the apple cart and the youngsters could have learnt loads of good things from him.

[JamboBoy]

8 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

He does have an idea by way of recruitment - it's just the players he has brought in have under performed.

 

He went for pace with the likes of Kastaneer - no good without real footballing ability

 

GMS has massively under performed.

 

Haring has not been the same player since his injury

 

Bringing Berra back hasn't worked out - he's as nimble as a container ship trying to get around the Isle of Wight

 

I think Robbie himself under estimated just how poor the squad is.

 

I can't understand how he is getting away with Hearts playing in the style they are as one of the reasons Stendel was brought in was his desire to play attacking football.

 

Stendel would have worked through the problems imo - he wasn't scared to upset the apple cart and the youngsters could have learnt loads of good things from him.

So I think we really agree that he has to go then!😀

Edited March 29, 2021 by JamboBoy

[Maroon Sailor]

4 minutes ago, JamboBoy said:

So I think we really agree that he has to go then!😀

 

What I'm saying this is not purely down to Robbie Neilson. Can't lay everything at his doorstep.

 

Some of the players should never wear a Hearts shirt again but at least that will come to fruition.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Maroon Sailor

[JamboBoy]

5 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What I'm saying this is not purely down to Robbie Neilson. Can't lay everything at his doorstep.

 

Some of the players should never wear a Hearts shirt again and at least that will come to fruition.

Yes but someone has to carry the can and unfortunately it has to be him and his sidekicks. 

[merrymac]

20 hours ago, jambonian said:

 

She was probably gutted when he walked out and joined some no-mark team on the outskirts of London and likely hoped he would come back one day. I think he was her daughters favourite player, or so i'd heard. Problem was Stendel was telling it like it was and she couldn't cope with that. Wouldn't surprise me if Levein had been causing a wee bit of dis-harmony within the squad because he didn't like Stendel. Levein can't and won't take criticism so maybe a wee bit of gamesmanship went on, not that he should've been anywhere near Hearts or Tynecastle anyway. Leech of a man. Either way, Stendel felt uncomfortable around Levein and his cohorts. I think they became a distraction to him. I mean, who would feel comfortable when the previous boss refuses to leave and is watching your every move!? He was on a hiding to nothing. Levein could quite easily have been bad-mouthing Stendel to Budge for all we know and influencing her decision whether to keep Stendel on or not. No-one knows but i wouldn't trust that joker if he told me tomorrow's Monday without checking for myself first.

To borrow from another thread.

Could you see Wallace Mercer allowing all this nonsense to go on?

[NANOJAMBO]

On 28/03/2021 at 11:14, Shanks said:

I don't want any new signings in any positions at the  club until budge and neilson are gone.  

 

Both are incompetent and I wouldn't trust them with any decisions at the club, we need both gone and then we can move forward from this sorry era.

Budge to give assurances* that she is completely removed from all things football , clarification of who IS running the "football department" - it's obviously her, still.  Clarification of the role of the CEO , does "day to day operations" mean the football department ?. Maybe then I'll reconsider my FOH position. Clarification on who is responsible for recruitment and an explanation as to why it's been so poor - what lessons have been learned. Otherwise FOH money continues to be poured down the toilet by this regime with absolutely no accountability. 

 

*Stuart Wallace to demand this on behalf of FOH who are the major investor in the club in order to protect the MULTI MILLION POUND investment FOH has made into the club.

 

 

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, JamboBoy said:

I am sorry but you have once again missed the point. Firstly is our strategy only for one year? If it is it is not a strategy it is a tactic and is a very expensive way of running any business. I have seen it mentioned many times that the signings were being made with a view to us being in the Premier League. Clearly that has failed too as apart from Craig Gordon not a single one of them is good enough to have us operating at the top end of the league above us. That surely cannot be disputed.

Secondly Neilson as Head Coach must have his performance measured more than just getting promotion. That is the whole point of what I am trying to say and you seem to be missing that in your thinking. Given the budget he has been given anyone with a bit of football nous could get this team promotion out of this league. Also anyone could achieve what he has with his record relating to incoming players and improving those he already had. It is clear from my type of analysis that anyone could achieve what he has in both areas. 

8 months ago the only strategy we had was supporting the only objective we had which was getting back into the top division. 
Other than Gordon and McEneff plus contract extensions for Smith and Kingsley I don’t think any other signings have been highlighted as getting us ready for the premiership. 
His budget this season is way down on the budgets Levein and Stendel had last season. His budget next season will be way down on what Levein and Stendel had last season. What you seem to be missing is that our income is down circa 50%  and that there’s a global pandemic underway. That could mean next years income is down even more than this years especially if most fans take the discount due to them on season tickets from 20/21 season. As yet there’s no date on the horizon as to when non-season ticket holders will get back into Tynie so walk-up income could be close to zero next season. 
in any case the budget talk is just nonsense. Tell me a league where the team with the biggest budget wins the league every season? 

[soonbe110]

On 28/03/2021 at 12:29, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Stendel might have been a case of the right man at the wrong time.

 

I look at Barnsley now and he lay the foundations for the type of season they are having after years of struggling.

 

I think if he was given the chance we would have seen a pretty good Hearts team to watch in a couple of years

 

 

Not really though. Barnsley have a selection committee for player recruitment based on inputs from one of those robot systems. Stendel admitted when he joined us that he had never been involved in player recruitment before and it showed. He hired two donkeys in Avdidjaj and Langer and also persisted with our Portuguese keeper. 
Re Barnsley’s current performance, at least half the current matchday squad were signed after Stendel left. Hardly him laying the foundations. There’s only a few of Stendels regulars getting a start these days. Sibbick , Mowat, Williams. 

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

I wasn't saying he should definitely be brought back, the point was more of if he was to return, we would only then be able to judge him properly away from the Budge era, unlike when he first arrived where he had all of Levein's four year mess to sort out as well as having that odious individual breathing down his neck unfairly. He was on a hiding to nothing, pressure was on and he was judged unfairly because of the situation he was in. Whether he would be a good manager or a poor manager, no-one knows. Not really. 

👍 yup agree.

[JamboBoy]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

8 months ago the only strategy we had was supporting the only objective we had which was getting back into the top division. 
Other than Gordon and McEneff plus contract extensions for Smith and Kingsley I don’t think any other signings have been highlighted as getting us ready for the premiership. 
His budget this season is way down on the budgets Levein and Stendel had last season. His budget next season will be way down on what Levein and Stendel had last season. What you seem to be missing is that our income is down circa 50%  and that there’s a global pandemic underway. That could mean next years income is down even more than this years especially if most fans take the discount due to them on season tickets from 20/21 season. As yet there’s no date on the horizon as to when non-season ticket holders will get back into Tynie so walk-up income could be close to zero next season. 
in any case the budget talk is just nonsense. Tell me a league where the team with the biggest budget wins the league every season? 

Does not get away from the fact using my initial analysis that he needs to go regardless of what budget is available. He is unable to identify the right players or suitably improve those he has. He is not up to the job and what we need. Therefore it has to be bye bye. Just the way it has to be in the hard nosed business of professional football. Enough is enough sorry!

[kingantti1874]

Wage bill should be reduced by a third, the rest of the available money invested (by someone competent) to buy the best young Scottish players available.

[Tynecastlesmychurch]

On 28/03/2021 at 09:23, Leveins Battalion said:

we could sign Messi and Ronaldo and we would still be pish.

Tbf at least those two in principle would fit our supposed signing policy. Hugely expensive and both in their mid 30s 😂

[merrymac]

4 minutes ago, Tynecastlesmychurch said:

Tbf at least those two in principle would fit our supposed signing policy. Hugely expensive and both in their mid 30s 😂

Ah well couldn't get Messi or Ronaldo so we went for Shay Logan instead😂

[OTT]

If we're talking what I feel we need to do to achieve raw improvement then moving on Robbie and his team is a good first start. 

 

I think Bobby, Doyle, Berra, Wighton, Damour, Roberts, Frear, White, Halkett, Popescu and Ross Stewart all leaving would be a good start. I'd also not stand in Mikey Smiths way, he'll be 33 next year and RB is a position I believe we could push a youngster through in.

 

If we need a back up goalie I think a judgement call needs to be made on Harry Stone - i.e would he be best place sitting on the bench and training with Gordon every day plus getting the match day experience at Tynie, or would he be better placed being loaned out to a club where he's going to be challenged?

 

Beyond that, I want Smith, Logan, Hamilton and Cochrane in the first team. 

 

In terms of signings, we need a whole new team IMO. Gordon, Kingsley, Souttar & Boyce give us something to build around but I do not trust Neilson to spend a penny. Let Alex Neil come in and rebuild things as he see's fit with a heavier emphasis on youth. 

[Tynecastlesmychurch]

35 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Ah well couldn't get Messi or Ronaldo so we went for Shay Logan instead😂

😂 

[merrymac]

26 minutes ago, OTT said:

If we're talking what I feel we need to do to achieve raw improvement then moving on Robbie and his team is a good first start. 

 

I think Bobby, Doyle, Berra, Wighton, Damour, Roberts, Frear, White, Halkett, Popescu and Ross Stewart all leaving would be a good start. I'd also not stand in Mikey Smiths way, he'll be 33 next year and RB is a position I believe we could push a youngster through in.

 

If we need a back up goalie I think a judgement call needs to be made on Harry Stone - i.e would he be best place sitting on the bench and training with Gordon every day plus getting the match day experience at Tynie, or would he be better placed being loaned out to a club where he's going to be challenged?

 

Beyond that, I want Smith, Logan, Hamilton and Cochrane in the first team. 

 

In terms of signings, we need a whole new team IMO. Gordon, Kingsley, Souttar & Boyce give us something to build around but I do not trust Neilson to spend a penny. Let Alex Neil come in and rebuild things as he see's fit with a heavier emphasis on youth. 

Ha ha  like Shay Logan at 33

[Tommy Brown]

8 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The trouble with measuring his performance is if an independent assessor came in, looked at the table , looked at the goal difference, looked at the points tally, looked at the win ratio then he would assess Robbie has achieved pretty much everything from this season.

 

If Robbie got sacked after Saturday with where the club are in the table then anybody outwith a Hearts persuasion and only look at the league table would be thinking WTF !

 

 

Sounds like Tosh is your independent Assessor.

[Weonly151]

11 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Ha ha  like Shay Logan at 33

Think he means Cammy Logan