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Recruitment/Improvement


JamboBoy

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Tommy Brown
38 minutes ago, OTT said:

If we're talking what I feel we need to do to achieve raw improvement then moving on Robbie and his team is a good first start. 

 

I think Bobby, Doyle, Berra, Wighton, Damour, Roberts, Frear, White, Halkett, Popescu and Ross Stewart all leaving would be a good start. I'd also not stand in Mikey Smiths way, he'll be 33 next year and RB is a position I believe we could push a youngster through in.

 

If we need a back up goalie I think a judgement call needs to be made on Harry Stone - i.e would he be best place sitting on the bench and training with Gordon every day plus getting the match day experience at Tynie, or would he be better placed being loaned out to a club where he's going to be challenged?

 

Beyond that, I want Smith, Logan, Hamilton and Cochrane in the first team. 

 

In terms of signings, we need a whole new team IMO. Gordon, Kingsley, Souttar & Boyce give us something to build around but I do not trust Neilson to spend a penny. Let Alex Neil come in and rebuild things as he see's fit with a heavier emphasis on youth. 

Do you really think 33 is passed it?

Smith is still playing  international football. 

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19 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Ha ha  like Shay Logan at 33:facepalm:

 

I cannot believe that spineless **** of a manager has went away and signed another 30+ year old. 


Shay Logan wants to be a plumber not a ****ing footballer. 

 

Honest to god. Why do we even bother?

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Maroon Sailor
Just now, OTT said:

 

I cannot believe that spineless **** of a manager has went away and signed another 30+ year old. 


Shay Logan wants to be a plumber not a ****ing footballer. 

 

Honest to god. Why do we even bother?

 

He could plug the gaps at the back

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7 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Do you really think 33 is passed it?

Smith is still playing  international football. 

 

I think I've been pretty underwhelmed by Smith this season, and I think we could find someone younger that can be developed. Likewise, promoting a youngster up. 

 

I'm not saying I'd actively look to get rid, but if he has better offers then fair enough. 

 

Stephen O'Donnell for example is more of an attacking RB than Smith that is available for free and Motherwell will pay a fair bit less than us. So financially it makes sense and I don't think there is a huge difference in quality. Scotland international too. 

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30 minutes ago, Weonly151 said:

Think he means Cammy Logan

I know that but the club have apparently signed Shay in our youth policy

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john thomas
On 28/03/2021 at 08:10, JamboBoy said:

The key part of a coach’s role is to ensure both collective and individual improvement. He can achieve this in two main ways and that is bringing in players that are an upgrade on what was there previously and improve those he has inherited or retained. If Mrs Budge uses this measure I am afraid Neilson has totally failed. I will list below players on both categories and grade them as to whether those recruited have been an upgrade and whether the retained players have shown any improvement. I have taken the players from the First Team Squad shown in the Club’s website

 

Recruited Players (Upgrade Y/N)

Gordon Y

Stewart N

Kingsley N

Popescu N

Halliday N

Mackay Steven N

McEneff N

Frear N

Roberts N

Kastaneer N

Gnanduillet N

 

Retained Players (Improved Y/N)

Zlamal N

Smith N

White N

Berra N

Souttar N/A

Halkett N

Brandon N (accept he has been injured but his performances up until then were not great)

Haring N

Walker N

Irving  N

Damour N

Boyce N

Naismith N

Henderson N

 

That analysis says it all and is damning of the overall quality of coaching particularly if you view it from the perspective of players retained. It is truly appalling and even I could not believe what I was reading!  Only one player, not surprisingly Craig Gordon, who you could categorise in a positive way. Horrendous reading I think you would all agree. 
 

The Football Department as it is constantly referred to is the key division of any club. It has shown no improvement for many years now. I really wonder how AB and her Directors actually manage its performance. I would suggest if it is not already in place my 2 categorisations might be useful key indicators to use both as a short term and long term measures of performance . It is these key indicators that ultimately reflect where we as a club are headed in terms of success on the field which is where it must be ultimately judged.

Not sure you can refer to your own opinion as if it was an objective analysis .

You could not believe what you were reading ? You wrote it ! You say you do this professionally ?

We are all pissed with what is [has been] happening . I find it doubly frustrating when we have so many experts on here that can fix it for us

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Clerry Jambo
31 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I cannot believe that spineless **** of a manager has went away and signed another 30+ year old. 


Shay Logan wants to be a plumber not a ****ing footballer. 

 

Honest to god. Why do we even bother?

Didn’t we get pumped by a few plumbers just last week 😡

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Hectormasson
39 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Do you really think 33 is passed it?

Smith is still playing  international football. 

I think a fit Mikey Smith got at least 3 seasons in him , guys a stalwart  and hard as,,,first on my teamsheet every time......

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Maroon Sailor
3 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

Didn’t we get pumped by a few plumbers just last week 😡

 

Leaking too many goals so it's all hands to the pump from now on.

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On 28/03/2021 at 11:30, TheBigO said:

Daniel Stendel openly admitted he wasn't overly comfy in the transfer market and prefers having a DoF or similar to get him what he needs.

 

He and Joe Savage could've been great.

 

Like you say Dan would love McEneff and I can all but guarantee would have him playing box to box and getting a real song out of him.

 

Bozanic, imo, a much better player than credit given, but another who fell foul of our awful tactics. He was at his best playing higher tempo and Tring to make things happen. He also liked to get stuck in. But when played by Levein, almost always a holding role which he never looked comfy in, didn't have the tactical or kind of quarterback/controlling abilities you need for that. Not saying he was great but yet another I don't blame on recruitment as such.


Bozanic suddenly looked a different player once let off the leash and we can all probably recall Levein getting frustrated at Milinkovic for not adhering to his rigid formation. 
I do think if Sibbick had not been unable to play, we'd have very likely stayed up - he looked absolute class for us.
 

On 28/03/2021 at 15:29, soonbe110 said:

Don’t think he plans things to be the same in year 2, either playing style or playing staff. This season was all about using what he had most effectively to ensure promotion. Nothing else really mattered.  Club was in real danger of going out of business if we missed out on promotion. 


He dismantled his last championship winning Hearts side, so he has form for this approach. It can't engender feelings of loyalty in his signings when they figure out they are just here as a means to an end. 
 

9 hours ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

Wighton was better this season than he was last year. Naturally, he has been farmed out to score goals for our main rivals in the division.


Made no sense whatsoever that an in-form Wighton, who had found confidence and his shooting boots, was farmed out. Why bother playing him and seeing that improvement, then?

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On 28/03/2021 at 17:43, NlGHTMARE said:

 

The foundations were laid by the recruitment committee at Barnsley, he just got the players he’d been given playing and winning. He had very little input into the laying foundations. 

So what’s happening this year? Have they upped the budget signing better players or just better coached than previously?

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50 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Not sure you can refer to your own opinion as if it was an objective analysis .

You could not believe what you were reading ? You wrote it ! You say you do this professionally ?

We are all pissed with what is [has been] happening . I find it doubly frustrating when we have so many experts on here that can fix it for us

It is a good deal better than what we have seen to date. Bad signings that are no improvement on what was already there (other than Craig Gordon) and no improvement in individual performances. Yeah that sounds like a good way forward right enough to give him more money and time to do it all over again with our hard earned money.
 

You miss my point altogether where it seems that the only performance measure he is being assessed on is promotion. That is fundamentally flawed if it is the case which it seems it is as that is the mantra used consistently . The guy does not have what we need and no amount of more time and more importantly valuable funds given to him is going to improve things either. I along with many others, am not prepared to pump yet more money in to to the club to see it wasted all over again. Don’t we ever learn?

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On 29/03/2021 at 20:24, stevie1874 said:

So what’s happening this year? Have they upped the budget signing better players or just better coached than previously?

 

Not sure about the budget, but by on large we tend to improve on what we’ve got every time we buy someone. Same with coaches the last 3 have all been better than their predecessor in my opinion. 

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On 29/03/2021 at 18:53, Tommy Brown said:

Do you really think 33 is passed it?

Smith is still playing  international football. 

Smith has definitely been a good signing but has looked a bit passed it for right back of late. But he is still playing at international level in midfield and we could possibly get the rest of the season and at least next season out of him at CB or midfield. He is a good, proud, committed type who plays for the jersey, not easy to find these days. Replacing him with a 33 year old though, who has been a good player, is disappointing and says a lot about where we are as a club. We need to start building and should be producing or sourcing young players ready to step in all parts of the field. Robbie and his assistants did not get us here, but show no signs they can sort it out.

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Tommy Brown
48 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

Smith has definitely been a good signing but has looked a bit passed it for right back of late. But he is still playing at international level in midfield and we could possibly get the rest of the season and at least next season out of him at CB or midfield. He is a good, proud, committed type who plays for the jersey, not easy to find these days. Replacing him with a 33 year old though, who has been a good player, is disappointing and says a lot about where we are as a club. We need to start building and should be producing or sourcing young players ready to step in all parts of the field. Robbie and his assistants did not get us here, but show no signs they can sort it out.

 

very much agree.

It was very common back the 70's for players to be considered "over the hill" at 30+.

 

Each player is different, some players are shot by 33, most ar not.

Winger's generally rely on pace, when this lost, they are less effective.

Smith is very professional and will still be playing another few years yet.

 

Most Hearts fans were astounded at how good Sandy Jardine still was when he was in his later 30s.

An exceptional player, who read the game to a tee. 

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10 hours ago, NlGHTMARE said:

 

Not sure about the budget, but by on large we tend to improve on what we’ve got every time we buy someone. Same with coaches the last 3 have all been better than their predecessor in my opinion. 

👍 Something I wish we’d adopt. 

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11 hours ago, NlGHTMARE said:

 

Not sure about the budget, but by on large we tend to improve on what we’ve got every time we buy someone. Same with coaches the last 3 have all been better than their predecessor in my opinion. 

I think personally alot of it is to do with having a set structure, the players know what is required of them, every coach that comes into the club has to play the style of play the club demands, which sets expectations and is demanding. 

 

Stendel deserves a lot of credit along with Struber. 

 

And now big Val is delivering, but the two previous to him have given him something to work with, and improve on. 

 

When our current manager Robbie Neilson left us for Mk dons, he left us with crap. 

 

We got rid of a lot of our youth players and brought in dross. 

 

Big Val has come in and has put trust in sibbick etc. 

 

The sign of a good manger 👍

 

What I would give to have mowatt, sibbick, and woodrow playing for our team 👍 all the best I hope you get promoted to the Premier league, there's two teams i watch based on football simply for trying to play it in what i believe, is the right way to play it that's Barnsley and Leeds 👍

 

Watching as a neutral that's who i enjoy watching. 

Edited by Bongo 1874
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1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

I think personally alot of it is to do with having a set structure, the players know what is required of them, every coach that comes into the club has to play the style of play the club demands, which sets expectations and is demanding. 

 

Stendel deserves a lot of credit along with Struber. 

 

And now big Val is delivering, but the two previous to him have given him something to work with, and improve on. 

 

When our current manager Robbie Neilson left us for Mk dons, he left us with crap. 

 

We got rid of a lot of our youth players and brought in dross. 

 

Big Val has come in and has put trust in sibbick etc. 

 

The sign of a good manger 👍

 

What I would give to have mowatt, sibbick, and woodrow playing for our team 👍 all the best I hope you get promoted to the Premier league, there's two teams i watch based on football simply for trying to play it in what i believe, is the right way to play it that's Barnsley and Leeds 👍

 

Watching as a neutral that's who i enjoy watching. 

 

I remember going back a number of years (8 or so) our owner at the time, massive life long Barnsley fan, who as since sadly passed away. Did a fans forum in a town centre pub, during a dark period, during this meeting it became apparent that BFC fans weren’t wanting us to spend beyond our means, we didn’t expect to compete with the better teams, but what we did want was to turn up on a Saturday and be able to see what they’d been doing all week, we wanted players with fire in their belly, who were prepared to graft their bollox off, who wanted to play for bigger and better clubs, which in turn would see the club and team benefit. And most of all we want entertaining attacking positive football, He said it was what he was hearing from most fans he spoke to, and he wanted the same. So he went about trying to achieve it, and he did. 

 

Since then we've had promotions and relegations, two winning trips to Wembley, good seasons, bad seasons, even indifferent seasons, and this season is looking like our best for 20 years. But no matter what’s happened since that day in the pub, we’ve had the footballing philosophy the fans asked for, and it’s been as entertaining as we’d all hoped for and then some, we’ve seen some cracking players in a reds shirt too. 

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7 minutes ago, NlGHTMARE said:

 

I remember going back a number of years (8 or so) our owner at the time, massive life long Barnsley fan, who as since sadly passed away. Did a fans forum in a town centre pub, during a dark period, during this meeting it became apparent that BFC fans weren’t wanting us to spend beyond our means, we didn’t expect to compete with the better teams, but what we did want was to turn up on a Saturday and be able to see what they’d been doing all week, we wanted players with fire in their belly, who were prepared to graft their bollox off, who wanted to play for bigger and better clubs, which in turn would see the club and team benefit. And most of all we want entertaining attacking positive football, He said it was what he was hearing from most fans he spoke to, and he wanted the same. So he went about trying to achieve it, and he did. 

 

Since then we've had promotions and relegations, two winning trips to Wembley, good seasons, bad seasons, even indifferent seasons, and this season is looking like our best for 20 years. But no matter what’s happened since that day in the pub, we’ve had the footballing philosophy the fans asked for, and it’s been as entertaining as we’d all hoped for and then some, we’ve seen some cracking players in a reds shirt too. 

You understand football you definitely get it great post 👍, and that's all fans can ask for is 100% and to go out and try win every game. 

 

You have a cracking stadium 👍 just one of the stands needing an upgrade, you never know if you get promoted 30 k seater stadium 😉

 

I hope yous get promoted to the big time 👍

 

All the best and come on you reds!! 👍❤. 

Edited by Bongo 1874
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No Idle Talk

Most of the unhappiness at the moment seems to be centred around Ann Budge and Robbie Neilson. I'm not saying I don't have concerns about what they are doing but my two biggest areas of concern about Hearts are recruitment and the lack of good players coming through the youth ranks. If we can't get those two areas cleaned up then it won't matter who the first team manager is, we will fail to reach our potential. 

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