Formula 1

[Shanks]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Hamilton is a decent driver in a phenomenally good car. A car that has been so far ahead of everything else on the grid for the last 5 years.

 

Mind that time when George Russell jumped in Hamilton's car (which he'd never driven before) when LH had covid? missed pole by milliseconds and was absolutely pissing the race until the Mercedes team 'accidentally' put Bottas' tyres on?

 

That's how good the Mercedes has been.

 

Put it this way if Verstappen & Hamilton were in identical cars, Hamilton finishes second. All IMO of course.

If you think hamilton is merely a ‘decent’ driver what do you think of Bottas? 

[The Mighty Thor]

10 minutes ago, Shanks said:

If you think hamilton is merely a ‘decent’ driver what do you think of Bottas? 

Probably the same as Mercedes. 

 

He'll be out that seat next season 

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Probably the same as Mercedes. 

 

He'll be out that seat next season 

He might get a wee bonus for wiping out both Red Bull cars yesterday. A Mercedes car has knocked 3 out of 4 Red Bull cars out of the last 2 GPS, which has completely changed the outlook of both championship tables. To make matters worse for Red Bull, they have had to pay for the damage, which eats into their allowed budget. The punishments have been less than a slap on the wrist. I don’t like Horner, but it’s understandable that he’s less than happy about the lack of real repercussions for Mercedes. If that had happened to Hamilton, I would reckon that the British media opinions of both incidents would have been very different. 

And they disqualified Vettel for lacking 0.7 of a litre of petrol. Punishment befitting the crimes? Maybe not.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

He might get a wee bonus for wiping out both Red Bull cars yesterday. A Mercedes car has knocked 3 out of 4 Red Bull cars out of the last 2 GPS, which has completely changed the outlook of both championship tables. To make matters worse for Red Bull, they have had to pay for the damage, which eats into their allowed budget. The punishments have been less than a slap on the wrist. I don’t like Horner, but it’s understandable that he’s less than happy about the lack of real repercussions for Mercedes. If that had happened to Hamilton, I would reckon that the British media opinions of both incidents would have been very different. 

And they disqualified Vettel for lacking 0.7 of a litre of petrol. Punishment befitting the crimes? Maybe not.

All just 'Racing incidents' apparently. 

Hamilton's was dangerous and Bottas I don't think has the smarts to take out cars like that. 

The punishment does not fit the crime in the world of F1.

 

[Mikey1874]

4 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

He might get a wee bonus for wiping out both Red Bull cars yesterday. A Mercedes car has knocked 3 out of 4 Red Bull cars out of the last 2 GPS, which has completely changed the outlook of both championship tables. To make matters worse for Red Bull, they have had to pay for the damage, which eats into their allowed budget. The punishments have been less than a slap on the wrist. I don’t like Horner, but it’s understandable that he’s less than happy about the lack of real repercussions for Mercedes. If that had happened to Hamilton, I would reckon that the British media opinions of both incidents would have been very different. 

And they disqualified Vettel for lacking 0.7 of a litre of petrol. Punishment befitting the crimes? Maybe not.

 

The thing that has changed the picture is the most recent Mercedes upgrades which gives Hamilton the edge on the straights. And the change in strategy by Hamilton which he has chosen by himself after hours in the simulator, to stop backing off Verstappen. 

 

Which explained Red Bull's desperation to try to get Hamilton banned. 

 

The good thing is Verstappen can still give Hamilton a race and we should see some good ones. 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

All just 'Racing incidents' apparently. 

Hamilton's was dangerous and Bottas I don't think has the smarts to take out cars like that. 

The punishment does not fit the crime in the world of F1.

 

 

You have a point. 

 

It does seem punishments don't fit the impact. In particular Bottas yesterday. 

 

And Red Bull have still not been investigated for risking Verstappen's life when they reduced tyre pressures to get an advantage to levels Pirelli implied were dangerous. 

[milky_26]

verstappen takes pole at spa with his last lap to knock george russell down to second. hamilton third at a wet spa

[Mikey1874]

http://www.hesgoal.com/news/86004/Formula_1_GP_Belgium_----_ENG.html

[Sooperstar]

Start delayed by at least 10 minutes. Start will also be behind the safety car until enough surface water has cleared from the track.

[Tazio]

Just now, Sooperstar said:

Start delayed by at least 10 minutes. Start will also be behind the safety car until enough surface water has cleared from the track.

ten minutes looks optimistic. 

[The Mighty Thor]

It's a wet one. 

In the pits again waiting to see if the rain will clear or lighten 

[Sooperstar]

Bit of a shambles. Nobody seems to know if the race has officially started or not. Doesn't seem to be much confidence of getting any more action today.

[Tazio]

The face needs to be completed within 4 hours of official start time so in the event any racing is done it needs to be finished by six. 

[Sooperstar]

3 minutes ago, Tazio said:

The face needs to be completed within 4 hours of official start time so in the event any racing is done it needs to be finished by six. 

Is that not only if the race has started though? There is normally the 2 hour time limit from race start and then the red flag allows that to be extended up to 4 hours (including red flag time). But for now the clock doesn't appear to have started ticking, so I can't see that that applies here.

[Sooperstar]

Think Masi seems to have suggested that the event time has started now, so the clock is indeed ticking. I wonder if they will just run a couple of laps under the safety car as time goes on, just to get some classification from the weekend.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Perez is allowed to start the race, when or if it does start.

[Sooperstar]

Went for a shower. Nothing seems to be any clearer in the time I've been away. Shambles.

[Taffin]

Masi never convinces me he has a good handle on stuff when it gets a bit complex.

[Sooperstar]

Time limit clock has now been stopped. They're making it up as they go along!

[Tazio]

And now they appear to be just going through the motions of a pretend race. 

[Sooperstar]

2 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

I wonder if they will just run a couple of laps under the safety car as time goes on, just to get some classification from the weekend.

That'll be a yes then.

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

Think Masi seems to have suggested that the event time has started now, so the clock is indeed ticking. I wonder if they will just run a couple of laps under the safety car as time goes on, just to get some classification from the weekend.

A complete shambles. How do you get a meaningful classification from two laps trundling round behind the safety car when there were no cars actually racing.

 

The race should have been abandoned with no classification or points.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Footballfirst

[redjambo]

20 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

A complete shambles. How do you get a meaningful classification from two laps trundling round behind the safety car when there were no cars actually racing.

 

The race should have been abandoned with no classification or points.

 

Or the race run on the Monday if that were logistically possible.

 

I agree - points for today's "race", whether half points or not, is a farce.

[Taffin]

Don't see the issue with half points really. Awarding nothing is unfair on the teams who ran their cars, incurred costs and did well yesterday. The teams unhappy with it...should look to their performance on the Saturday (however in Red Bulls case their performance on today's out lap 😂)

[SectionDJambo]

42 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

A complete shambles. How do you get a meaningful classification from two laps trundling round behind the safety car when there were no cars actually racing.

 

The race should have been abandoned with no classification or points.

That then nullifies the efforts during qualifying which were made in very difficult conditions. Today was just very unfortunate for all concerned, more so the spectators. Unfair things happen in F1. Just ask Red Bull who had 3 cars taken out in the previous 2 races, both by Merceces cars.

[Footballfirst]

9 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

That then nullifies the efforts during qualifying which were made in very difficult conditions. Today was just very unfortunate for all concerned, more so the spectators. Unfair things happen in F1. Just ask Red Bull who had 3 cars taken out in the previous 2 races, both by Merceces cars.

I've no objection to giving points for qualification (as they have done with the sprint race experiment), but no race should mean no points.

[SectionDJambo]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I've no objection to giving points for qualification (as they have done with the sprint race experiment), but no race should mean no points.

I can see where you’re coming from, but still think they did the right thing, but only awarding half points. I would suggest differently, though, if a race was abandoned due to a fatal accident. I thought the podium was a bit of a stretch, but it was a good thing for George Russell.

 It’s a bit like cricket where a team being thrashed can get away with a draw because it’s raining.

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I've no objection to giving points for qualification (as they have done with the sprint race experiment), but no race should mean no points.

 

But there was a 'race'...as per the rules. Enough laps were completed for classification and half points. I don't recall any of them moaning about this rule before today. Is it flawed? Possibly, but they've had since whenever that rule was introduced to raise it. Maybe they'll review it going forwards.

 

For all over the work in the preceding days for no points to be awarded would be worse imo.

[Footballfirst]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

But there was a 'race'...as per the rules.

Those same rules also forbade any overtaking for the duration of the "race".

 

It was worse than the farce that was Indianapolis in 2005 where safety concerns about tyres meant that 14 cars couldn't race.

 

 

 

[Taffin]

35 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Those same rules also forbade any overtaking for the duration of the "race".

 

It was worse than the farce that was Indianapolis in 2005 where safety concerns about tyres meant that 14 cars couldn't race.

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying the rule is good, I'm saying it is the rules and they all knew that when they travelled to Spa. There's often mumps and grumps about the rules yet I've never heard a peep about this one until today oddly. It was an extreme scenario and personally I feel it's better half points were handed out so it wasn't just a complete waste of time over the last 3 days. I accept others feel differently, and maybe they'll be successful in lobbying for the rules to be changed for future races.

 

Had they raced there probably wouldn't have been any overtaking anyway, unless someone went off the track (which would be allowed under the safety car too) as quite simply nobody could follow close enough safely so the standings would likely have been as per the grid with only Verstappen sounding like he felt they should race.

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not saying the rule is good, I'm saying it is the rules and they all knew that when they travelled to Spa. There's often mumps and grumps about the rules yet I've never heard a peep about this one until today oddly. It was an extreme scenario and personally I feel it's better half points were handed out so it wasn't just a complete waste of time over the last 3 days. I accept others feel differently, and maybe they'll be successful in lobbying for the rules to be changed for future races.

 

Had they raced there probably wouldn't have been any overtaking anyway, unless someone went off the track (which would be allowed under the safety car too) as quite simply nobody could follow close enough safely so the standings would likely have been as per the grid with only Verstappen sounding like he felt they should race.

I've seen it suggested on social media that the reason that they "started" the race was simply down to money.  As there was a "race" then spectators were not due a refund.  At €155 and up for a ticket it was a multi million euro decision.

[Arse 'Friends' Dyslexic?]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I've seen it suggested on social media that the reason that they "started" the race was simply down to money.  As there was a "race" then spectators were not due a refund.  At €155 and up for a ticket it was a multi million euro decision.

 

Social media...

 

Anyway, you don't buy tickets for specific races.

Your ticket, instead, allows entry to the event for a specific date.

Unless the whole event - or a particular day - is cancelled (i.e. no racing, including any support races etc.) then its unlikely the circuit/organiser is liable for any refunds.

(And even if it were cancelled, there are probably a load of "get out" clauses in the small print...).

So whether what took place was classified as a "race" or not, is probably a bit of a moot point.

 

[Sooperstar]

8 hours ago, Arse 'Friends' Dyslexic? said:

 

Social media...

 

Anyway, you don't buy tickets for specific races.

Your ticket, instead, allows entry to the event for a specific date.

Unless the whole event - or a particular day - is cancelled (i.e. no racing, including any support races etc.) then its unlikely the circuit/organiser is liable for any refunds.

(And even if it were cancelled, there are probably a load of "get out" clauses in the small print...).

So whether what took place was classified as a "race" or not, is probably a bit of a moot point.

 

Not just social media. Lewis Hamilton and possibly some of the other drivers have also suggested that the 'race' was only run for monetary reasons.

[Taffin]

16 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Not just social media. Lewis Hamilton and possibly some of the other drivers have also suggested that the 'race' was only run for monetary reasons.

 

Lewis Hamilton finding his altruism and moaning about something when it also just so happened to have gone against him points wise?!? Well, I never 😂😂

 

The drivers are right on their point though about the fans being shafted and should get a refund!

 

I see Lando had a wee whine as well. Wonder if we'd have heard the same if he'd stuck it on pole rather than dropping it around Eau Rouge.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Taffin

[Marvin]

14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I've seen it suggested on social media that the reason that they "started" the race was simply down to money.  As there was a "race" then spectators were not due a refund.  At €155 and up for a ticket it was a multi million euro decision.

 

I thought the whole point of the two laps behind the safety car was to be able to award half points than 0 for abandoning the race altogether. I do hope the fans get some sort of refund, its not a cheap day out. 

[Mikey1874]

The main effect may be no refund for the fans. Though still under consideration 

 

 

Makes very little difference to Hamilton v Verstappen but down the list in constructors the points today may be the difference to £millions in prize money. 

[Footballfirst]

27 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

I thought the whole point of the two laps behind the safety car was to be able to award half points than 0 for abandoning the race altogether. I do hope the fans get some sort of refund, its not a cheap day out. 

So effectively awarding "race" points for qualifying performance. Ridiculous.

 

It is akin to naming the Wimbledon champions as the number 1 seeds, in the event that the whole fortnight was washed out  after an hour's play on the opening day.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Footballfirst]

Seems like a change to the rules is on its way

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/58385653

 

Formula 1 is to make rule changes to prevent a recurrence of the events surrounding the controversial abandonment of the Belgian Grand Prix.

Red Bull's Max Verstappen was declared the winner of a race that lasted two laps behind the safety car.

Heavy rain had prevented any competitive racing at the Spa-Francorchamps track.

Lewis Hamilton called the event a "farce", saying drivers were sent out solely to secure an official result.

Bosses accept the situation needs to be addressed and teams will meet for talks with governing body the FIA and F1.

A number of other leading drivers have criticised events surrounding the race.

And on Monday, Alfa Romeo said the event should have been abandoned without trying to make the result of the race official.

"The decision not to race in the conditions was the right one, in the interests of protecting the safety of the drivers, the marshals and the spectators themselves.," Alfa Romeo said,

"However, the situation would have been dealt with a lot more appropriately by not having at all the 'race' we witnessed.

"This outcome hurts us all, but in particular it hurts the fans of the sport, who didn't get the show they came to see.

"We hope lessons were learnt, lessons that will improve the way we operate in the future and that put the supporters of our sport in the position they deserve to be."

The event dragged on for three and a half hours as the FIA sought to find a window in which a race could be run in the heavy rain, but poor visibility meant conditions were deemed too dangerous to let the cars loose.

F1's rules dictate two racing laps is the minimum for points to be awarded. These were completed behind the safety car at 18.17 local time.

F1 is understood to be in discussions with the promoter of the race to evaluate what can be done for the fans who stood for hours in the rain and did not see a grand prix.

McLaren Racing chief executive officer Zak Brown has called for a change of the rules that govern this type of situation.

The FIA rejected the claim that the final two laps were a cynical move to make the event official.

Race director Michael Masi said officials thought there could be a weather window in which some racing could take place, and the cars were sent out to assess conditions.

F1 chief executive Stefano Domenicali also denied claims commercial factors were involved in sending the cars out for the final time.

A number of drivers, including multiple world champions Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso, said it was wrong to award points when there had been no actual competition.

[milky_26]

raikkonen to retire from F1 at the end of the season and now he misses the dutch GP due to testing positive for covid

[Tazio]

I don’t remember Zandvoort being this mental as a track. Loads of banking and strange cambers on corners. 

[milky_26]

Q2 red flagged due to russell spinning and hitting the barriers. he managed to get back to the pits

[milky_26]

8 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Q2 red flagged due to russell spinning and hitting the barriers. he managed to get back to the pits

second red flag in q2 with the other williams hitting the barrier at i think the same point. this has ended q2

[The Mighty Thor]

46 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I don’t remember Zandvoort being this mental as a track. Loads of banking and strange cambers on corners. 

The track looks absolute class. 

 

The boys are toiling a bit with the off camber turns and the rapid changes in elevation. 

 

Could be a great race 

[milky_26]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

The track looks absolute class. 

 

The boys are toiling a bit with the off camber turns and the rapid changes in elevation. 

 

Could be a great race 

they also reckon wind direction changes could be causing some of their problems. however they are supposed to be the worlds best drivers so should be coping better with it

[Tazio]

3 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

they also reckon wind direction changes could be causing some of their problems. however they are supposed to be the worlds best drivers so should be coping better with it

Doesn’t matter how good you are if your driving at 100% and the wind takes away your downforce you’re potentially in trouble. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Turn 3 😮

[Mikey1874]

Another track pretty hard to overtake on. One of F1's problems. 

[milky_26]

18 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Another track pretty hard to overtake on. One of F1's problems. 

they have not had an F1 race at Zandvoort since 1985

[Tazio]

19 hours ago, milky_26 said:

they have not had an F1 race at Zandvoort since 1985

Might be why they've decided to mix the vibe with a club night.The whole place is mental with the fans.

[milky_26]

7 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Might be why they've decided to mix the vibe with a club night.The whole place is mental with the fans.

i think they even increased the banking on one corner and that is where red bull are so far ahead of the others