Mass clear out?

[A_A wehatethehibs]

18 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Doubt it.

It would explain more than a few things. One thing there has been a complete lack of is any sort of team spirit. The players don’t seem to like each other much. Flat performances. 
 

And the poster above has said, it was the same for Stendel. A lot of the players instantly knew they’d have no future under him. So the likes of Walker etc, never even bothered trying. So he had to resort to playing utter dross like Moore because at least he’d try. 
 

Craig Gordon’s comments the other day were a bit of a tell as well  “I don’t care what group of players it is, this is the group of players we’ve got so we’ve got to get this league won now one way or another” (or along those lines iirc) - he was clearly pissed off at certain players and he clearly knows big changes are ahead. 

[jamboinglasgow]

 

In regards to young players getting a chance, saw this video from a couple of weeks back there was at least one young player other than McGill and Stone who was training with the first team (did not recognise who it was but had number 49.)

[Auldbenches]

59 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He is adequate for this season but would need a major improvement for top league. Was only ever a regular with Rangers as a left back. I said earlier on thread that standby left back is only role I see for him next season. Don’t think he will go for that because he knows he would probably be released at the end of next season when contract expires. He will be looking for a 2/3 year deal at a club this summer. Won’t be us I hope. That would take him through to age 32/33. 

He'll probably be back on this division.  He won't want to be a back up in his last season while trying to find a club.  

Talks a good game. 

[Don Dan]

Yes we need a clear out but have we not had one after most seasons lately. The recruitment has been diabolical at times and not much seems to have changed this season. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

6 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It would explain more than a few things. One thing there has been a complete lack of is any sort of team spirit. The players don’t seem to like each other much. Flat performances. 
 

And the poster above has said, it was the same for Stendel. A lot of the players instantly knew they’d have no future under him. So the likes of Walker etc, never even bothered trying. So he had to resort to playing utter dross like Moore because at least he’d try. 
 

Craig Gordon’s comments the other day were a bit of a tell as well  “I don’t care what group of players it is, this is the group of players we’ve got so we’ve got to get this league won now one way or another” (or along those lines iirc) - he was clearly pissed off at certain players and he clearly knows big changes are ahead. 

But the first thing Neilson did was embrace Berra, even though Berra was indicative of the utter rot at the heart of our club

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

But the first thing Neilson did was embrace Berra, even though Berra was indicative of the utter rot at the heart of our club

I’d be sure to find some allies in that squad as well. Hopefully most of them will be gone soon. 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Yes we need a clear out but have we not had one after most seasons lately. The recruitment has been diabolical at times and not much seems to have changed this season. 

We have. 

We follow that up by bringing in more faceless wonders to fit firstly Levein's turgid shite and now Neilson-ball. 

The football we play is dire. It's a dogma of sideways possession based nothingness, where 100 touches side to side are preferable to a fast paced attacking style. 

Factor in square pegs of players who must play at all costs then its easy to see why we've been sussed out by McPake, Crawford, Grant, the plumber and now a sportscene pundit. 

 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

But the first thing Neilson did was embrace Berra, even though Berra was indicative of the utter rot at the heart of our club

No he didn’t “embrace” him. Berra had a contract here. Neilson inherited him. He’s not even playing now for example, only played half the games if that. Berra was in the last year of his contract and did a job for Dundee in this league. Keeping him around was a pragmatic choice because we knew it was going to be difficult to get enough players in. Neilson has cobbled together this seasons squad out of chewing gum and string basically... but now I think there’s a fair number who know their days here are now numbered and big changes are imminent. Just my thoughts anyway. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

21 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

No he didn’t “embrace” him. Berra had a contract here. Neilson inherited him. He’s not even playing now for example, only played half the games if that. Berra was in the last year of his contract and did a job for Dundee in this league. Keeping him around was a pragmatic choice because we knew it was going to be difficult to get enough players in. Neilson has cobbled together this seasons squad out of chewing gum and string basically... but now I think there’s a fair number who know their days here are now numbered and big changes are imminent. Just my thoughts anyway. 

It’s a good job Berra got injured because he was woeful and Neilson didn’t have the stones to drop him

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s a good job Berra got injured because he was woeful and Neilson didn’t have the stones to drop him

 

He has had the stones not to pick him again though despite the other CBs not exactly covering themselves in glory recently. Might have to given Smith's injury though.

[goldie83]

Anyone just utterly fed up and bored with the same old story......Neilson isn’t up to it, signings have been poor, recruiting diabolical, wages to high for inadequate players, contracts to long for inadequate players, youth system a shambles.......Take Neilson out of statement and input Levein or Stendal and it’s a vicious circle we haven’t broken for years. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 30 years, ploughed thousands of pounds in to our famous club, travelled all over from Elgin to Athens with many a country and city in between and I am as close as ever to throwing in the towel. Absolutely no joy in it anymore. The odd derby win just isn’t suffice.

Edited March 1, 2021 by goldie83
Spelling

[goldie83]

1 minute ago, goldie83 said:

Anyone just utterly fed up and bored with the same old story......Neilson isn’t up to it, signings have been poor, recruiting diabolical, wages to high for inadequate players, contracts to long for inadequate players, youth system a shambles.......Take Neilson out of statement and input Levein or Stendal and it’s a vicious circle we haven’t broken for years. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 30 years, ploughed thousands of pounds in to our famous club, traveled all over from Elgin to Athens with many a country and city in between and I am as close as ever to throwing in the towel. Absolutely no joy in it anymore. The odd derby win just isn’t suffice.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

6 minutes ago, goldie83 said:

Anyone just utterly fed up and bored with the same old story......Neilson isn’t up to it, signings have been poor, recruiting diabolical, wages to high for inadequate players, contracts to long for inadequate players, youth system a shambles.......Take Neilson out of statement and input Levein or Stendal and it’s a vicious circle we haven’t broken for years. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 30 years, ploughed thousands of pounds in to our famous club, travelled all over from Elgin to Athens with many a country and city in between and I am as close as ever to throwing in the towel. Absolutely no joy in it anymore. The odd derby win just isn’t suffice.

People have been warning for a while that Budge was killing the club’s ambition and identity and they were bang on the cash.

[Bull's-eye]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

People have been warning for a while that Budge was killing the club’s ambition and identity and they were bang on the cash.

 

Only killing it for a certain type that I can understand nobody wanting, quite happy from a personal point of view and roll on Saturday. 

[gregzy2k7]

10 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

People have been warning for a while that Budge was killing the club’s ambition and identity and they were bang on the cash.

100% spot on, we have been utterly woeful on the park since Ann budge set foot in our door, too much trust in the wrong people has fecked us, yes we were a circus under Romanov but at least we won 2 cups and actually looked decent on the park occasionaly. 

I believe most fans are at breaking point now, after the last 5 seasons of shite.

Edited March 1, 2021 by gregzy2k7

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s a good job Berra got injured because he was woeful and Neilson didn’t have the stones to drop him

I’m not sure it’s quite that way, that’s Billy big baws type chat. Embarassing stuff. The guys coming to the end of his career. Neilson is a pragmatist and has used what he’s got, remember he’s not the one that’s put us here. But he’s digging us out. As i say it’s a chewing gum and string squad. Come the end of the season Berra will have played 10-15 games, 70% of them Hearts Wins to get the job done. I don’t think he seems ready to retire think will move on to maybe Dunfermline at the end of the season. 

[Jamhammer]

5 hours ago, EIEIO said:

So Gordon and Boyce definitely good enough,  the rest reviewed at the end of this season? 

Bit harsh for me as we've had 4 or 5 succesive seasons of transition. I'd prefer fewer signings initially but of better quality for example, the guy we tried to get from Kilmarnock in January was quite ambitious.

Oh yeah I’d much rather we only needed a couple in but not sure that’ll do.

Midfield has needed strengthened for 3 seasons. Defence isn’t great. Need pace and energy

[Weakened Offender]

12 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Out of the ones RN has brought in I think it's a fair bet that-

 

Gordon

Stewart

Halliday

Kingsley

McEneff

GMS

Gnando

 

- will all be staying. Guys like Popescu and Roberts I think have time on contracts so might be hard to shift.

 

Out of the players that were here already-

 

Boyce

Walker

 

- can't think of anyone else who he will be desperate to keep but again contract length could come into it.

 

Where I'm at although not too fussed about Boyce. 

[Famous 1874]

12 hours ago, This is My Story Podcast said:

Honestly, we need to break this culture at the club. It’s not acceptable to just write off the rubbish we see week in, week out by saying it’s gonna get better down the line. Something at the club isn’t working. Is it pressure from above and demand for results. Is savage under pressure? Is Robbie under pressure? Is the scouting department, recruitment team under pressure? How come Cathro, Levein, Stendel and now Robbie all get rebuilds sanctioned from the top brass. We’ve signed 98 players since Budge took over. We average 6 players a transfer window. That’s mental. Even more mental is when you factor in that we’ve maybe had 6 transfer fees across the board, Hickey and Sow the only transfer fees to write home about, although we did get money for Rossi that was supposedly worth a lot. We’ve had near 15 million pounds worth of benefactor monies over the years to cover holes in the funding. We need a proper strategic plan. We can’t just keep writing off seasons and half seasons in hope that rebuilds dig us out a hole. 

Been saying this for a while. We are an utter shambles and an embarrassment. Soft centred, no accountability and an acceptance of mediocrity. Too many happy clapper *****’s who have no ambition.
 

This season should have been about building a set playing style, preparing for next season and integrating young players but none of that has happened. We make the same mistakes every week yet don’t learn from them? No youth involvement is a disgrace and yet again our recruitment is hit or miss. Massively relied on Gordon or Boyce to bail us out the shit a lot already this season. 3 1-1 draws in a row in the Vida league ffs. Dropping a single point is a disgrace in itself, let alone losing 3 games + that Alloa cup loss. 
 

Sick of this shit man. 

[Famous 1874]

9 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Where I'm at although not too fussed about Boyce. 

Are you taking the piss? Liam Boyce is our best player along with Craig Gordon. 

[stevie1874]

27 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I’m not sure it’s quite that way, that’s Billy big baws type chat. Embarassing stuff. The guys coming to the end of his career. Neilson is a pragmatist and has used what he’s got, remember he’s not the one that’s put us here. But he’s digging us out. As i say it’s a chewing gum and string squad. Come the end of the season Berra will have played 10-15 games, 70% of them Hearts Wins to get the job done. I don’t think he seems ready to retire think will move on to maybe Dunfermline at the end of the season. 

He’s not digging us out he’s stumbling towards the finishing line after signing a couple of Internationalists and a squad that has further international players in it, in a very poor league. We have a decent squad it’s the way they are set out to play which I’m beginning to think is the issue. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, The Grim Reaper said:

What’s the meaning of life?

 

42 but that doesn't answer my question. 

[Rocky jamboa]

55 minutes ago, goldie83 said:

Anyone just utterly fed up and bored with the same old story......Neilson isn’t up to it, signings have been poor, recruiting diabolical, wages to high for inadequate players, contracts to long for inadequate players, youth system a shambles.......Take Neilson out of statement and input Levein or Stendal and it’s a vicious circle we haven’t broken for years. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 30 years, ploughed thousands of pounds in to our famous club, travelled all over from Elgin to Athens with many a country and city in between and I am as close as ever to throwing in the towel. Absolutely no joy in it anymore. The odd derby win just isn’t suffice.

Yip! Exactly the way I'm feeling. 

[The Grim Reaper]

10 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

42 but that doesn't answer my question. 

I stumbled across it and thought it might add value to the thread 🤷🏼‍♂️

[i8hibsh]

I dread the thought of anyone involved with the running, scouting, training, playing staff or management recruiting anyone for next season. 

 

As for the pile of shit squad we currently have I could not give the slightest **** who leaves.

[i8hibsh]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

Yes we need a clear out but have we not had one after most seasons lately. The recruitment has been diabolical at times and not much seems to have changed this season. 

 

 

Twice a season for 7 years we have been clearing out.

[qferryjam]

26 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

He’s not digging us out he’s stumbling towards the finishing line after signing a couple of Internationalists and a squad that has further international players in it, in a very poor league. We have a decent squad it’s the way they are set out to play which I’m beginning to think is the issue. 

It’s the only issue ,up against teams of kids journeymen part time managers and 80 %of the teams have taken something off us , signed 5 wingers while letting 2 young laddies Cal Morrison and Moore who’d have done a turn leave ,

St Johnstone have just won a cup with a manager just in the door utilising and adapting the players he had 

Clarke at Killie another example of Using the players at your disposal and getting the best out of them 

letting Jordan Robert’s leave has to be up there with the strangest decisions at the club ,and we are talking about Hearts here 

[i8hibsh]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Likely outs

Bobby

Doyle

Berra

White

Hamilton

Cochrane

Damour

Wighton

Moore

Haring

Irving

Frear

Roberts

Naismith

Thats 14

 

 

A car boot sale would even struggle to get £100 for the lot.

[i8hibsh]

Got 2 super crocks to come back next season (for a few games) in Brandon and Souttar.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

45 minutes ago, The Grim Reaper said:

I stumbled across it and thought it might add value to the thread 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

In what way does it add value? Is it the sheer number or the quality or both?

 

Hibs are a good comparison as they've also had a promotion and several manager changes in that time. Hibs seem to have played just around 10 fewer players over the same period (and made 84 signings), with way more duds that I can make out and giving games to way fewer youngsters. And they didn't have anything close to the injury problems we've had over this period, especially the last 2 or 3 years. So what exactly is that list meant to be in the context of a discussion about who we should get rid of next season? Other than just yet another brainless dig at the person who saved our club?

Edited March 1, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Seymour M Hersh]

44 minutes ago, The Grim Reaper said:

I stumbled across it and thought it might add value to the thread 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

No offence but it doesn't. There's no contact to the list. It's just that a list. Oh and Angus Beith was a midfielder not a forward. 

[Section Q]

Haring and Damour should get a start. How can they be any worse than what's out there.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

No offence but it doesn't. There's no contact to the list. It's just that a list. Oh and Angus Beith was a midfielder not a forward. 

 

It seems to be a list of players who have appeared for the first team since Budge took over. As you say, it's totally irrelevant to a discussion on who should leave this season. I think the gist of it is "Budge Bad" or something.

[Voice of reason]

18 minutes ago, qferryjam said:

It’s the only issue ,up against teams of kids journeymen part time managers and 80 %of the teams have taken something off us , signed 5 wingers while letting 2 young laddies Cal Morrison and Moore who’d have done a turn leave ,

St Johnstone have just won a cup with a manager just in the door utilising and adapting the players he had 

Clarke at Killie another example of Using the players at your disposal and getting the best out of them 

letting Jordan Robert’s leave has to be up there with the strangest decisions at the club ,and we are talking about Hearts here 

Hearts were 2 good penalties away from winning the Scottish Cup. Would that have made Neilson an incredible manager? Winning cups can be a bit of a lottery to be honest so I’m not putting the St Johnstone manager up on a pedestal just now. 
 

...as for Jordan Roberts - surely you’re not being serious? He was very poor at Hearts. One good game for Motherwell and the club has made a horrendous mistake in letting him go on loan? Not buying that.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

Hearts were 2 good penalties away from winning the Scottish Cup. Would that have made Neilson an incredible manager? Winning cups can be a bit of a lottery to be honest so I’m not putting the St Johnstone manager up on a pedestal just now. 
 

...as for Jordan Roberts - surely you’re not being serious? He was very poor at Hearts. One good game for Motherwell and the club has made a horrendous mistake in letting him go on loan? Not buying that.

 

Gary Locke was one horrendous John Sutton miss from breaking our LC hoodoo. Not sure many people rated him as a great manager. If Davidson goes on to make St J strong in the league over a few years and continues doing well in the cups, then maybe...

Edited March 1, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[The Grim Reaper]

48 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

No offence but it doesn't. There's no contact to the list. It's just that a list. Oh and Angus Beith was a midfielder not a forward. 

With the transfer window approaching and another squad overhaul expected it highlights how wasteful we’ve been in the recent past. 
 

I’m not going to try and compare it to a Hibs or Aberdeens recent transfer activity as I don’t know and don’t care.

 

Maybe not the right thread for it 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Andyp1874]

1 hour ago, Section Q said:

Haring and Damour should get a start. How can they be any worse than what's out there.

Totally agree. If nothing else might put them in shop window. 

[SomethingAboutObua]

5 hours ago, goldie83 said:

Anyone just utterly fed up and bored with the same old story......Neilson isn’t up to it, signings have been poor, recruiting diabolical, wages to high for inadequate players, contracts to long for inadequate players, youth system a shambles.......Take Neilson out of statement and input Levein or Stendal and it’s a vicious circle we haven’t broken for years. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 30 years, ploughed thousands of pounds in to our famous club, travelled all over from Elgin to Athens with many a country and city in between and I am as close as ever to throwing in the towel. Absolutely no joy in it anymore. The odd derby win just isn’t suffice.

Exactly, there's big issues with  Neilson and In an ideal world for me he'd only be here this season, but he's not at fault for the last 5 years. A lot of people seem to think criticising Neilson and criticising how the clubs being run are the same thing. 

[EH23-Jambo]

Out of contract at end of season are: Berra, Zlamal, White, Frear, Stewart, Irving with Kastaneer and Ginelly loans finishing too.

 

Rest could be difficult to clear out.

[Kenbo]

If they all know they are playing for their future yet still churning out shite like that, then get rid!!!

[GinRummy]

29 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Out of contract at end of season are: Berra, Zlamal, White, Frear, Stewart, Irving with Kastaneer and Ginelly loans finishing too.

 

Rest could be difficult to clear out.

Doyle? There are quite a few more into their final year after summer. Maybe reach some sort of financial agreement to get shot of a few earlier?

Edited March 2, 2021 by GinRummy

[Nookie Bear]

8 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

No offence but it doesn't. There's no contact to the list. It's just that a list. Oh and Angus Beith was a midfielder not a forward. 

Its a bit misleading at first glance because you don’t see that it’s a list of every player who has featured, not just signings. 
 

That’s the way football is these days at our level. Short term signings and loans is the way of things so every club is the same.

[Beni]

11 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

But the first thing Neilson did was embrace Berra, even though Berra was indicative of the utter rot at the heart of our club

 

Whether Robbie wanted him or not Berra's wages may have been a stumbling block to him leaving or going out on loan, so it's better for the team if Robbie tries to get the best out of him.

One of the errors Stendel made shortly after arriving was to call out senior players for not taking enough responsibility. He was correct, but getting the most out of the players at his disposal was imperative. New managers usually get a bounce because players see it as a fresh start, but if the new manager starts criticising them it doesn't last long.

Butcher did the same when he went to Hibs, and it panned out the same way for him that it did for Stendel.

So for all that Neilson can be criticised for I wouldn't put his man management near the top of that list. If there are a load of underperformers on lucrative contracts it's not his fault.

 

[i8hibsh]

I'm just so glad Ann is focusing on the football side of things now.

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

34 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Whether Robbie wanted him or not Berra's wages may have been a stumbling block to him leaving or going out on loan, so it's better for the team if Robbie tries to get the best out of him.

One of the errors Stendel made shortly after arriving was to call out senior players for not taking enough responsibility. He was correct, but getting the most out of the players at his disposal was imperative. New managers usually get a bounce because players see it as a fresh start, but if the new manager starts criticising them it doesn't last long.

Butcher did the same when he went to Hibs, and it panned out the same way for him that it did for Stendel.

So for all that Neilson can be criticised for I wouldn't put his man management near the top of that list. If there are a load of underperformers on lucrative contracts it's not his fault.

 

Stendel said what no-one else at the club had the bollocks to say. Least of all Budge, because she epitomised the who-cares environment. I mean christ, Levein and McPhee were both still in the building despite their abject failure. You know that it was Levein who was sent to pick Stendel up from the airport when he first flew in? The lack of professionalism is staggering.

 

Neilson’s man management is pish. That’s plain to see.

[stevie1874]

52 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Whether Robbie wanted him or not Berra's wages may have been a stumbling block to him leaving or going out on loan, so it's better for the team if Robbie tries to get the best out of him.

One of the errors Stendel made shortly after arriving was to call out senior players for not taking enough responsibility. He was correct, but getting the most out of the players at his disposal was imperative. New managers usually get a bounce because players see it as a fresh start, but if the new manager starts criticising them it doesn't last long.

Butcher did the same when he went to Hibs, and it panned out the same way for him that it did for Stendel.

So for all that Neilson can be criticised for I wouldn't put his man management near the top of that list. If there are a load of underperformers on lucrative contracts it's not his fault.

 

Sorry but I’d rather our manager made tough calls than pandering to senior pros on a downward spiral. If they don’t like it then they can find another club. Hearts should not be an easy place to earn a living. Stendel was at least correct re Berra who was past his best. 

[Beni]

2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Stendel said what no-one else at the club had the bollocks to say. Least of all Budge, because she epitomised the who-cares environment. I mean christ, Levein and McPhee were both still in the building despite their abject failure. You know that it was Levein who was sent to pick Stendel up from the airport when he first flew in? The lack of professionalism is staggering.

 

Neilson’s man management is pish. That’s plain to see.

 

I agree Stendel was at least upfront and called out the holiday camp culture that had been allowed to develop, but ultimately it didn't work. The players were motivated to play against Rangers and Hibs but reverted to type against relegation rivals.

Neilson has just joined the list of managers who have failed to get the most out of the squad, so maybe the problems are harder to rectify than just throwing a few teacups around the dressing room.

 

[Beni]

2 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

Sorry but I’d rather our manager made tough calls than pandering to senior pros on a downward spiral. If they don’t like it then they can find another club. Hearts should not be an easy place to earn a living. Stendel was at least correct re Berra who was past his best. 

 

At most clubs the manager could cut out the dead wood by telling them they won't feature in his plans, but thanks to Budge's naive high basic low bonus wage structure this is much harder.

You say Hearts shouldn't be an easy place to earn a living, but that is exactly what has been allowed to happen, and like turning round a supertanker it's going to take a long time to achieve a change of direction.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by fancy a brew

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

At most clubs the manager could cut out the dead wood by telling them they won't feature in his plans, but thanks to Budge's naive high basic low bonus wage structure this is much harder.

You say Hearts shouldn't be an easy place to earn a living, but that is exactly what has been allowed to happen, and like turning round a supertanker it's going to take a long time to achieve a change of direction.

 

 

 

There are arguments both ways here.

If you were a star player being courted by HMFC and you had a wife and 2 young children you would probably want a high basic/low bonus for security rather than the other way round where you'd have to rely on 10 (excl subs) other individuals to maximise your earnings.

Which would you choose in these circumstances or would would you seek a better offer elsewhere?

[mitch41]

21 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Don't want to rain on your parade but, as has been discussed many times on here, getting rid of players is easier said than done eg Damour.

The Topic is Mass Clear Out ?